Apple pulls out of data center in Athenry due to fcuked up planning and gob****es

mikemac2

Sure it was the west of Ireland that gave boycott to the world

Have the two locals tried getting served in the petrol station or pub yet?

runawaybishop

bloopy wrote: »

The jobs involved would be about 20 full time (majority security) and 10-15 part time (Weekly or bi weekly inspections).

The numbers given were between 100 and 150. Even if it was 20 its not like the area has an excess of jobs.

It also discourages other companies from setting up in the locality.

Rechuchote

The Danes did better. In Ireland, we object, object, object; the Danes seem to have bargained so that Apple actually offered the community an advantage:

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/vbzng8/one-man-in-a-tiny-irish-town-could-derail-apples-plans-for-europe

In Denmark, for example, where Apple’s other European data center is almost ready to come online, the company was required to install a waste-heat recovery system that will use the huge amount of heat generated by the servers to heat homes in the community. The data center will also be partly powered by recycling waste products from nearby farms. In Seattle, Amazon has already demonstrated the feasibility of a waste-heat recovery system to power its own offices. In California, Google collects rainwater to cool its servers.

As for the question of jobs - of course a potential 450 jobs, 150 of these "permanent and pensionable" as the old saying goes - would make an enormous difference to a small town like Athenry; it would save farms, prevent breakup of families, provide custom to the shops, result in new businesses being founded to serve the population, bring huge prosperity into the place.

Back in the 1980s a Clare sculptor started a project to move unemployed people and their families to the depleted south Clare from Dublin's inner city. He said a single unemployed person was worth - at that time - £2,000 to a village, between the person's dole, the children's value to emptying schools, and visits from friends and relatives, the overflow of whom would stay in local B&Bs, and who would shop in local shops. Money follows money.

Such a shame the local politicians in Athenry didn't bargain with Apple as the Danes did.

Boggles

salmocab wrote: »

That’s not even close data centers are manned 24/7 by technicians not dropping by once or twice a week but always in the building plus cleaners, electrical mechanical and controls engineers. Then it needs people to install the racks and maintain them. This was to be a large data centre so would easily have had over 100 people working in it.

Whatever the true number is, even taken the highest estimate it is still relatively small combined with the fact it's the expressed goal of the tech companies to eliminate humans from them all together.

At the end of the day, this is only a story because Apple are involved. I have seen multiple supermarkets denied planning over the last decade, they would have offered similar staffing levels and would be far better for the economy locally than any massive ware house full of disks.

I don't ever remember Leo flying over to Germany to give "assurances" to the head of Aldi because of them.

There has been a massive over action to this from the top down.

Our love for Apple appears to have no bounds.

EdgeCase

machiavellianme wrote: »

It's pretty simple. There's no more electrical transmission network capacity in Dublin and little to none in Cork. This was a site with two sets of 220kV powerlines nearby so would be able to provide hundreds of Megawatts of power without having to build significant new overhead lines. Building new lines into cities (or anywhere near people) is probably an impossible task.

Where are you getting that from?
There are multiple 220kV lines serving all sorts of areas around Cork and Dublin both overhead and underground. Not to mention that both areas have huge generation capacity.

They're not planning to put data centres in Patrick Street or Stoneybatter. If something like that were going in either city it would be on the outskirts, likely in an industrial / tech park like Sandyford or Little Island. All of those areas are extensively well provisioned for power.

Apple tend to pick obscure locations because they don't want their data centres to be obvious also the IDA was also probably trying to push jobs into the West and incentives were offered.

Logically it's far easier to locate these things somewhere where infrastructure is easier and planning is easier.

http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/#all/transmission-map

Ubbquittious

Boggles wrote: »

Our love for Apple appears to have no bounds.

The TD's are down on their prayer mats before Apple and Google the whole time because they think it's essential that they have Apple and Google's name up on the door of the country in order to attract any other tech company.

Tbh if they don't want to employ anyone and don't want to pay any tax we're better off growing turnips in the bit of land they would otherwise take up. The whole economic argument goes out the window when they're trying to as hard as they can to employ as few people as possible.

salmocab

Every business is trying to employ as few as possible, that’s why SuperValu has self scan and you pump your own petrol. We’re getting into general Ludd territory if we want to turn our noses up at jobs purely based on not enough physical jobs and too much machinery. Just like in the industrial revolution as jobs went new things came along.

wexie

Rechuchote wrote: »

Such a shame the local politicians in Athenry didn't bargain with Apple as the Danes did.

We don't know if they did or not do we?

Either way wouldn't have made one sod of a difference considering 3 individuals decided to put a stop to this

EdgeCase

I'd suspect that with Brexit pending, and this data centre would probably have been serving customers in the UK as well as elsewhere in Europe, they'll probably just put one in Britian.

Opportunity lost.

Also there's not much point in local politicians bargaining with anyone. They've no input into that aspect of the planning process. It was gone to court appeals, which were very slow.

Apple isn't going to be able to sit for 5 years thinking about this. They need to respond to demand for services quite quickly. It's pretty clear that wasn't going to happen.

Multi year court appeals processes aren't really feasible to deal with when you need something to be up and running asap.

The planning appeals process here is simply far too slow. It should be possible to get something like this done within a reasonable time frame. This project was announced in 2015.

Ubbquittious

salmocab wrote: »

Every business is trying to employ as few as possible, that’s why SuperValu has self scan and you pump your own petrol. We’re getting into general Ludd territory if we want to turn our noses up at jobs purely based on not enough physical jobs and too much machinery. Just like in the industrial revolution as jobs went new things came along.

There is just no compelling reason anymore to let these companies come in and have free reign if there are no jobs and no tax to be had from it. You could see in a few years after the datacentre is built that Apple will be parping their own horn for having a datacentre with 0 people employed in it.

Pkiernan

These objectors should be boycotted by every person, shop, hotel and service provider in the State until they f#ck off out of Ireland.

This has huge implications on FDI.

salmocab

Ubbquittious wrote: »

There is just no compelling reason anymore to let these companies come in and have free reign if there are no jobs and no tax to be had from it. You could see in a few years after the datacentre is built that Apple will be parping their own horn for having a datacentre with 0 people employed in it.

But your the one that decided there will be 0 jobs in it, you’ve basically decided something and are now arguing it as fact. That place would have supplied over 100 jobs, that’s a fact. Having Apple there would probably have drawn in in the long term other businesses attracted by the infrastructure improvements and the proximity to the city along with rents that don’t cost city prices.
I don’t know Athenry at all so I can’t say if this was a good or bad place for it or if it would have destroyed the area but I know enough about data centers to be able to say there would be jobs and a good mix of well paid tech rolls and lower paid non technical rolls.

Doctors room ghost

Ubbquittious wrote: »

There is just no compelling reason anymore to let these companies come in and have free reign if there are no jobs and no tax to be had from it. You could see in a few years after the datacentre is built that Apple will be parping their own horn for having a datacentre with 0 people employed in it.

More of the paddywhackery.everyone would have benefited from the build.material supplies,labor,local shops,garages etc etc but the paddywhacker prefers the paranoia route.
Ffs

Ubbquittious

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

More of the paddywhackery.everyone would have benefited from the build.material supplies,labor,local shops,garages etc etc but the paddywhacker prefers the paranoia route.
Ffs

Jeez when you see new articles every day on well known tech sites about how said megacorps are trying to replace everyone and anything with automated AI bots it's hard not to be cynical.

Even that aside the whole economic argument is usually exaggerated with anything. Whether it's a festival coming to town or a company setting up shop you'd swear by the auld talk that the locals will never see another poor day but the reality is often far from it.

runawaybishop

Ubbquittious wrote: »

There is just no compelling reason anymore to let these companies come in and have free reign if there are no jobs and no tax to be had from it. You could see in a few years after the datacentre is built that Apple will be parping their own horn for having a datacentre with 0 people employed in it.

Electricity isn't free, the land isn't free, its not constructed for free. Only a moron would believe that we shouldn't attract business into the country.

Kamili

Hector Savage wrote: »

Can't imagine they'd be close to carbon neutral ?

They consume MASSIVE amounts of power the air conditioning alone is a killer ...

The point of having it in Ireland is to prevent the use of air conditioning - this process is known as free air cooling, due to the temperatures we have here. Servers actually don't need silly low temperatures to function and by using evaporative cooling they can use far less power to cool air which is actually already cool enough in our climate anyway. The issue for us is actually freezing temperatures, and heating the air.

I've heard people in the US come here and comment on how much they spend cooling the air in their data-centers to temperatures our climate gives us naturally.

https://books.google.ie/books?id=FKfBBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA55&lpg=PA55&dq=Google+free+air+cooling+Ireland&source=bl&ots=JjhrGOJWNx&sig=5fiH8Un3IBhSOqwEkqI04WOtLaU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqpayWyv3aAhWGCMAKHWIJCbEQ6AEIggEwDQ#v=onepage&q=Google%20free%20air%20cooling%20Ireland&f=false

Rechuchote

EdgeCase wrote: »

I'd suspect that with Brexit pending, and this data centre would probably have been serving customers in the UK as well as elsewhere in Europe, they'll probably just put one in Britian.

Scarcely - with Britain getting out of Europe, won't that mean tariffs hitting everything in Britain?

As for all the pitchforks about going after the people who objected, did any of those pitchfork-holders make an observation (€20) on the Apple plan approving it? No? Didn't think so. You could have; if you care that much about it, keep your eye on future planning applications by multinationals as the objectors do.

I still think it would have been much more to the point that the local councillors and TDs, and also the Ministers for Communications, Climate Action and Environment and for Business, Enterprise and Innovation should have been in there talking to Apple and asking them to provide heating to the local population and to use solar PV panels, etc… They should also have been talking to the Danes and sharing strategies and tactics.

Ubbquittious

Rechuchote wrote: »

Scarcely - with Britain getting out of Europe, won't that mean tariffs hitting everything in Britain?

As for all the pitchforks about going after the people who objected, did any of those pitchfork-holders make an observation (€20) on the Apple plan approving it? No? Didn't think so. You could have; if you care that much about it, keep your eye on future planning applications by multinationals as the objectors do.

I still think it would have been much more to the point that the local councillors and TDs, and also the Ministers for Communications, Climate Action and Environment and for Business, Enterprise and Innovation should have been in there talking to Apple and asking them to provide heating to the local population and to use solar PV panels, etc… They should also have been talking to the Danes and sharing strategies and tactics.

Indeed credit to the Danes to at least ensure some lasting benefits for the locals if they decide to replace the couple of workers with AI bots. The auld dopey TD's and "Cllr"s over here would never do that because it would amount to interfering with the sacred free market and they're happy to settle for a photo-op with Tim Cook in the local rag along with some paragraph filled with false hope for jobs.

EdgeCase

The issue with Brexit is that it may no longer be possible to serve the UK from outside the UK, due to either tarrif barriers or regulatory issues. So I could see Apple taking the opportunity to pause anyway.

We have no idea what the EU-UK relationship may be in 12 months time. The whole thing is still in a state of complete political nonsense in Britian and there's still no idea what's happening.

Boggles

salmocab wrote: »

That place would have supplied over 100 jobs, that’s a fact.

Ah no now.

That's an opinion, yours.

It could be 150 jobs, it could be 95 jobs, it could be 30 jobs.

That's my opinion.

Again though, neither are facts.

VinLieger

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Jeez when you see new articles every day on well known tech sites about how said megacorps are trying to replace everyone and anything with automated AI bots it's hard not to be cynical.

Again back to the Luddite argument of we should stop all progress cus its scary......

Boggles

“You’re Supposed To Let Us Do What We Want” Apple Tells Athenry

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2018/05/10/youre-supposed-to-let-us-do-what-we-want-apple-tells-athenry/

Doctors room ghost

Boggles wrote: »

Ah no now.

That's an opinion, yours.

It could be 150 jobs, it could be 95 jobs, it could be 30 jobs.

That's my opinion.

Again though, neither are facts.

One thing that is fact today is there is zero jobs there now thanks to the paddywhackers in good old Ireland go backwards

Ubbquittious

VinLieger wrote: »

Again back to the Luddite argument of we should stop all progress cus its scary......

There's feck all in it for the country or the locals when the jobs argument is out the window.


Trump isn't going to come over to us and say "aren't ye great lads for letting Apple set up shop here, go on here's a few billion and a few free fighter jets to play with"

Rechuchote

Ubbquittious wrote: »

There's feck all in it for the country or the locals when the jobs argument is out the window.

Apart from the odd few quid of corporate tax (assuming Apple could suddenly find its honour and pay the actual 12.5%).

Boggles

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

One thing that is fact today is there is zero jobs there now thanks to the paddywhackers in good old Ireland go backwards

An no, that's not a fact either.

There is jobs there.

http://www.localbusinesspages.ie/area.asp?county=Galway&area=Athenry

Unless they are all run by AI and Robots.

Athenry will survive, people need just to calm the fook down with the hyperbole.

VinLieger

Ubbquittious wrote: »

There's feck all in it for the country or the locals when the jobs argument is out the window.


Trump isn't going to come over to us and say "aren't ye great lads for letting Apple set up shop here, go on here's a few billion and a few free fighter jets to play with"

Think you missed my point completely.

But whatever the begrudging luddites are out in force in this thread, not much point in arguing with people who want the rest of us to be as miserable and afraid of the world and technology as them

runawaybishop

Ubbquittious wrote: »

There's feck all in it for the country or the locals when the jobs argument is out the window.

The building is just helicoptered in from the US is it and Apple get the land for free?

Your argument is stupid.

knipex

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

More of the paddywhackery.everyone would have benefited from the build.material supplies,labor,local shops,garages etc etc but the paddywhacker prefers the paranoia route.
Ffs

paddywhacker ???

So anything that wants to be built anywhere should be allowed because we get the one off benefit from the build ??

Do you remember 2008 ???

runawaybishop

knipex wrote: »

paddywhacker ???

So anything that wants to be built anywhere should be allowed because we get the one off benefit from the build ??

Do you remember 2008 ???

Do you not understand why apple pulled out? Permission was granted and the appeals took so long they ****ed off to Denmark.