Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Under-age training misconduct

Options
1…457910…17

Comments

  • Options
    #182
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,153 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Olsky wrote: »
    Maybe this paedophile paranoia and the snide insulations that coaches want to sexually abuse children are going a bit too far.

    The problem is stuff did happen.
    And it was some very bad stuff that went on, often for years.

    Swimming, gymnastics, soccer have all had a terrible litany of abuse cases in different countries.
    We had huge cases in swimming in Ireland.
    George Gibney, Derry O'Rourke ring any bells ?

    Ever hear of a journalist called Tom Humphries ?
    Well he was involved with a prominent GAA club at one time.
    And I am not saying he abused anyone in the club, but he was in the club.


  • Options
    #183
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,522 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Olsky wrote:
    Maybe this paedophile paranoia and the snide insulations that coaches want to sexually abuse children are going a bit too far.

    The regulations about not being alone with children are there to protect the adult and the child.

    Talking about the fact that these regulations exist, do not imply any thoughts of paedophilia.


  • Options
    #184
    Olsky
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Olsky


    Tell me how wrote: »
    The regulations about not being alone with children are there to protect the adult and the child.

    Talking about the fact that these regulations exist, do not imply any thoughts of paedophilia.

    He was alone with two 10yr old for a few minutes before a game. I know a lot of bad things happened but is maybe common sense being left behind a bit.

    I get a clear implication of paedophillia from the comments on this thread. Bordering on witchhunt in what is being insinuated..


  • Options
    #185
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,522 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Olsky wrote:
    I get a clear implication of paedophillia from the comments on this thread. Bordering on witchhunt in what is being insinuated..

    There's no suggestion of paedophilia in any of the comments you quoted.

    It's all about the existence of and adherence to regulations which are there to protect all parties.


  • Options
    #186
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Olsky wrote: »
    He was alone with two 10yr old for a few minutes before a game. I know a lot of bad things happened but is maybe common sense being left behind a bit.

    I get a clear implication of paedophillia from the comments on this thread. Bordering on witchhunt in what is being insinuated..

    I'd say the witch hunt occured when all the parents were called to the meeting.

    Complainants excluded of course.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #187
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Olsky wrote: »
    He was alone with two 10yr old for a few minutes before a game. I know a lot of bad things happened but is maybe common sense being left behind a bit...

    He broke the single most important rule when dealing with kids in situations like this.

    There was no 'ah sure nothing happened'. That is irrelevant. You are not allowed to be alone with kids, ever. Anyone involved with coaching kids is fully aware of this rule. The dude shouldn't even have been talking to them anyway!


  • Options
    #188
    seligehgit
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    Mod Warning

    Let's be careful with the direction the thread is going.

    The clear implication of the article is that child protection guidelines which are there to protect all parties were not adhered to,nothing more.


  • Options
    #189
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Olsky wrote:
    I get a clear implication of paedophillia from the comments on this thread. Bordering on witchhunt in what is being insinuated..


    I get the impression you are making an attempt to have the thread descend down a dark path, to maybe have it closed?


  • Options
    #190
    Olsky
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Olsky


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    I get the impression you are making an attempt to have the thread descend down a dark path, to maybe have it closed?

    I have no involvement with the GAA or children's coaching but notice the paranoia that many adults now have regarding any social contact with children. The fear that even the most innocent of interactions can be misinterpreted as signs of sexually predatory intentions. I just think its very sad.

    This guy may have been a bully on a power trip but thats a different issue


  • Options
    #191
    Stoner
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    jmayo wrote:
    And if you could see past your disdain for the writer you might see how the GAA hierarchy and institutional child protection system they have comes out of this quite good, in that they have come down on the club for their behaviour.


    Bonnie is right IMO. You shouldn't have to see past such a headline to discover that the GAA punished the club for it's behavior and as you say "come out of it quite good"
    I picked up very little positivity from PK, it's all "spitting blood" etc.

    There is nothing "quite good" about the situation.

    The club was wrong and PK was the wrong man to write it imo.
    If this is a positive story for the GAA I can't imagine how PK would approach a negative one.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #192
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,470 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    jmayo wrote: »
    So would rather this was brushed under the carpet or is it just the fact that Kimmage wrote it ?

    BTW where do you stand on what Athenry did by calling in all the "other" parents to organise support i.e. a bullying campaign of sorts ?

    Where do you stand on Athenry juvenile secretary talking to two lads on his own in a room ?



    ??
    What does that mean ?

    I detested the old Ireland where the opinions of the parish priest, the local Garda sergeant and the local powers that be, funnily enough often those involved in local GAA club, could destroy lives.

    Anything is an improvement on that.

    BTW if anything I am proud of the way Croke Park appear to be handling this.
    They realise what century we are in unlike the ones down in Athenry and some of their supporters around here.
    What exactly was brushed under the carpet?


  • Options
    #193
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Olsky wrote:
    I have no involvement with the GAA or children's coaching but notice the paranoia that many adults now have regarding any social contact with children. The fear that even the most innocent of interactions can be misinterpreted as signs of sexually predatory intentions. I just think its very sad.


    Child safeguarding protocols exist for a reason and also in the interests of people who interact with children. In regards this article some of these protocols were ignored. However it is only you who is attempting to make it more sinister than what had occurred.


  • Options
    #194
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Amazing how two people can read the same thing and see totally different things

    He apologized because he was forced to by head office.

    The reason head office was involved was because the club ignored complaints. That's the entire thrust of the article. How on earth did you read that the club didn't ignore complaints?

    Even after the findings against them the club publically posted a bull****e statement saying they didn't do anything wrong and were then forced to remove it as it was manifestly untrue.

    I'm not sure so what the timeline was. If I missed something so be it, but specifically on the mentor cursing, which is the only part I made that comment on, Kimmage wrote
    It was true that the complaint against Paddy Kelly had been resolved by mediation after he had written a letter of apology.

    I'm not defending the club here. Just don't see that they ignored the complaint. Mishandled it, inappropriate actions, cover up, certainly.


  • Options
    #195
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    bruschi wrote: »
    I'm not sure so what the timeline was. If I missed something so be it, but specifically on the mentor cursing, which is the only part I made that comment on, Kimmage wrote



    I'm not defending the club here. Just don't see that they ignored the complaint. Mishandled it, inappropriate actions, cover up, certainly.

    The time lines are abundantly clear in the article. They are in it a couple of times actually.

    SI: Yeah, I'm listening to what you're saying but I have a couple of issues. I've a small mountain of paperwork in front of me here that dates to November 2016, when 16 signatories — a group of concerned parents — contacted the club, wrote a letter to Sean Keane. How can you tell me with a straight face that the first you heard of this was last October?

    AE: Can we give you a little bit of background? That letter was sent in, that's true, but the majority of the signatories on that letter have retracted themselves from it, and have distanced themselves.

    SI: Okay, well can we just clarify that the first you heard of this was not in October, it was November 2016, so that's one discrepancy. Would you like me to point out some more?

    AE: You are confusing the issues.

    SI: I am not confusing the issues. You were contacted by the Galway County Board in March of last year. You were asked to form a committee and to meet the complainants and document their complaints. That did not happen. You did not meet the complainants. So again, don't tell me the first you heard of this was October, because I'm looking at the email that says you were informed in March

    The club were made aware of complaints and ignored them. Twice.


  • Options
    #196
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    seligehgit wrote: »
    Mod Warning

    Let's be careful with the direction the thread is going.

    The clear implication of the article is that child protection guidelines which are there to protect all parties were not adhered to,nothing more.

    Just going to back this up and say that we need to be careful not to try, convict and hang anyone via social media as this may actually harm any potential future legal proceedings.

    Lets keep the debate civil and non speculative please.


  • Options
    #197
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Stoner wrote: »
    Bonnie is right IMO. You shouldn't have to see past such a headline to discover that the GAA punished the club for it's behavior and as you say "come out of it quite good"
    I picked up very little positivity from PK, it's all "spitting blood" etc.

    There is nothing "quite good" about the situation.

    The club was wrong and PK was the wrong man to write it imo.
    If this is a positive story for the GAA I can't imagine how PK would approach a negative one.

    I suppose he has a little bit of experience 9f cover ups and organisational denial.


  • Options
    #198
    Stoner
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    evolving_doors wrote:
    I suppose he has a little bit of experience 9f cover ups and organisational denial.

    This is at a club level surely the correct analogy would be to compare a cycling team with a GAA club. The organisation in this case punished the offender's club.


  • Options
    #199
    irelandrover
    Registered Users Posts: 3,712 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    The club acted terribly in this. For me they are the ones coming out terribly.

    And in my opinion its good the two mentors were named. Not because they deserved to be named but because otherwise every mentor in the club is tarnished.


  • Options
    #200
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I agree that stories can be twisted. And that some parents can be unfairly argumentative.

    But, the clubs behavior in inviting other parents to a meeting and then posting a false statement on the outcome of the proceedings was attempting to influence and twist events as much if not more so then any action by the complainants.

    Also, a letter signed by 16 parents that the atmosphere wasn't ideal is quite telling.

    A lack of judgement was displayed by the club by letting 10 year olds play u14s where there is likely to be a bit more harsher motivation/trash talking than the small kids games. Also, the coach was obviously wrong to speak the way he did.

    However, the children of those 16 parents who complained officially now have their cards marked unfortunately now that their parents have basically pitted themselves against the club.

    It's unlikely that any of them will ever make county now because their will be a question mark over their loyalty due to their parents.


  • Options
    #201
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    A lack of judgement was displayed by the club by letting 10 year olds play u14s where there is likely to be a bit more harsher motivation/trash talking than the small kids games. Also, the coach was obviously wrong to speak the way he did.

    However, the children of those 16 parents who complained officially now have their cards marked unfortunately now that their parents have basically pitted themselves against the club.

    It's unlikely that any of them will ever make county now because their will be a question mark over their loyalty due to their parents.

    Loyalty is a two way street.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #202
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,157 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    A lack of judgement was displayed by the club by letting 10 year olds play u14s where there is likely to be a bit more harsher motivation/trash talking than the small kids games. Also, the coach was obviously wrong to speak the way he did.

    However, the children of those 16 parents who complained officially now have their cards marked unfortunately now that their parents have basically pitted themselves against the club.

    It's unlikely that any of them will ever make county now because their will be a question mark over their loyalty due to their parents.

    They won’t make county because their parents signed a letter when they were 10 years old? Are you having a laugh?


  • Options
    #203
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Loyalty is a two way street.

    Who would want to be in a club with that attitude anyway?


  • Options
    #204
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    TheBoyConor wrote:
    However, the children of those 16 parents who complained officially now have their cards marked unfortunately now that their parents have basically pitted themselves against the club.

    TheBoyConor wrote:
    It's unlikely that any of them will ever make county now because their will be a question mark over their loyalty due to their parents.

    I hope you are joking and that this attitude within the GAA is held by only a tiny minority.


  • Options
    #205
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Raquel Mealy Crucifix wrote: »
    Who would want to be in a club with that attitude anyway?

    No. They should stay with the club but attempt change at the next AGM.


  • Options
    #206
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Raquel Mealy Crucifix wrote:
    Who would want to be in a club with that attitude anyway?


    In much of the country the local club is the only option if a child wants to play. The problem is not the kids but the behaviour of the adults.


  • Options
    #207
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Olsky wrote: »
    I have no involvement with the GAA or children's coaching but notice the paranoia that many adults now have regarding any social contact with children. The fear that even the most innocent of interactions can be misinterpreted as signs of sexually predatory intentions. I just think its very sad.

    This guy may have been a bully on a power trip but thats a different issue


    Staying away from the details of the case - and I admit that my view is partially framed by my attitude towards the writer of the piece - anyone who acts in an untoward fashion to children should not be allowed next nor near them.

    I was involved in underage teams, and to be honest while it had its good points and we were quite successful, it was far more stressful than playing or managing at adult level. I was not sorry to end my involvement and have huge admiration for anyone who is.

    It is a greatly under appreciated service to the community across all sports and indeed other activities. I don't think the way the Athenry case is being handled publicly does anyone on any side much good.


  • Options
    #208
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    I suppose he has a little bit of experience 9f cover ups and organisational denial.

    This case is the exact opposite of a cover up and organisational denial, the GAA have acted perfectly and appropriately and handed out a punishment that I very much doubt would have happened in a number of other sports.

    Without wishing to put words in Stoner's mouth the reason IMO that Kimmage was the wrong man for this was that rather than attempting to highlight the issue with the intent of ensuring lessons were learnt and no such case would arise again, Kimmage was looking for the big sensationalist expose and clearly lost all objectivity as a result of his well documented disdain for the GAA.

    It is also an extremely poorly written article, I had to read it four or five times to get the full picture and even now there are some elements that are unclear, and its at least twice the lenght it needed to be, it essientally amounts to a rant, which is a shame because as I alluded to above there is/was a very important message in their among all the ramblings and hyperbole.


  • Options
    #209
    ChippingSodbury
    Registered Users Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ChippingSodbury


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    ...
    It's unlikely that any of them will ever make county now because their will be a question mark over their loyalty due to their parents.

    I think the fault lies with the Club Executive and how it was handled (or not handled) rather than the parents of the kids. I coach underage kids and sometimes parents can be "difficult" but if even half of the information is accurate and unbiased, the Club really acted poorly instead of conducting the process fairly and properly.
    Bonniedog wrote: »
    It is a greatly under appreciated service to the community across all sports and indeed other activities. I don't think the way the Athenry case is being handled publicly does anyone on any side much good.

    Nobody likes their dirty linen washed in public but if this information wasn't put into the public domain by a seemingly neutral party, the parents, along with their kids, would have been ostracised and the Club kept its good name. It also gives the Club a chance to make changes at their next AGM or EGM now that the unbiased facts have been published.


  • Options
    #210
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    danganabu wrote:
    This case is the exact opposite of a cover up and organisational denial, the GAA have acted perfectly and appropriately and handed out a punishment that I very much doubt would have happened in a number of other sports.


    The GAA has acted appropriately and should be praised for the manner in which they handled the situation. The club's behaviour leaves a lot to be desired, from child safe guarding policy to the behaviour towards the parents whom made a compliant.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #211
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    The GAA has acted appropriately and should be praised for the manner in which they handled the situation. The club's behaviour leaves a lot to be desired, from child safe guarding policy to the behaviour towards the parents whom made a compliant.

    Agreed on both counts, when I heard of the case initially I had a certain amount of sympathy for the club but the more info that comes to light the worse it looks, it was one poor decision followed by another.


Advertisement