Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

We'll all be grateful when Carbery has to start a game in the RWC.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

None of those guys were in the position that Carbery is.

Just thinking out loud, obviously not a direct comparison as they were all very much fringe players who were playing A team games and couldn't break through to the senior team.

If I was Ulster, I'd be happier to bring in Myler to be honest. He's an older head and can perhaps provide more of a mentoring role to McPhillips. If I was McPhillips, I don't think I'd be thrilled to see someone like Carbery being brought in on a relatively short terms basis to be parachuted in over me. There's only 18 months between them and McPhillips has gone well; if Carbery is only going there for a year, I'd rather someone like Myler.

Carbery would go there with the intention of starting as many games as possible and McPhillips will miss out whilst he could be rotational with Myler.

I don't think this really benefits Ulster or Leinster overall. But Ireland take precedence and Carbery is in desperate need for game time at 10 between now and the RWC so I can fully understand why this may come to pass.

Buer wrote: »

If I was Ulster, I'd be happier to bring in Myler to be honest. He's an older head and can perhaps provide more of a mentoring role to McPhillips. If I was McPhillips, I don't think I'd be thrilled to see someone like Carbery being brought in on a relatively short terms basis to be parachuted in over me. There's only 18 months between them and McPhillips has gone well; if Carbery is only going there for a year, I'd rather someone like Myler.

Carbery would go there with the intention of starting as many games as possible and McPhillips will miss out whilst he could be rotational with Myler.

I don't think this really benefits Ulster or Leinster overall. But Ireland take precedence and Carbery is in desperate need for game time at 10 between now and the RWC so I can fully understand why this may come to pass.

Couldn’t agree more with that! We need someone like Myler. Someone who can help McPhilips with game management! Still believe Piernarr could do that and could help more than one position. (Regardless of history/uproar of him leaving).

Buer couldn’t of hit the nail on the head better.

awec wrote: »

Johnny McPhillips has probably played more pro-level games at 10 than Joey Carbery has. If he hasn't, it's surely very close. What exactly is he supposed to learn from him?

tbh...McPillips has looked better at 10 than then limited amount of times I've seen JC at 10.

I see Fodden is to leave Saints with Myler.  Wouldn't be a bad addition for a team looking an experienced Full Back.

awec wrote: »

I think this is a bit of an understatement.

To parachute a player in for a single season would be incredibly detrimental to Ulster.

It absolutely would not be 'incredibly detrimental' to Ulster to have a capped international 10 arrive to compete with McPhillips. Let's try to keep a grip on reality here.

It may not be better than signing an experienced NIQ 10, but beggars can't be choosers.

awec wrote: »

It would absolutely be detrimental to Ulster long term to have a player arrive in for a season with the promise of being first choice.

If he's only coming for a year then Ulster should focus all their attention on McPhillips, it would be much more beneficial to Ulster Rugby.

Carbery isn't coming to compete, he's coming to play at 10. You think he's going to move north to sit on the bench for half the games? Rubbish.

It would be beneficial for Ulster to have a quality 10 next season. That could be Carbery. It could be McPhillips.

He's not being promised a place. That's just paranoia. I'm sure he's coming to start, but that's on the basis that he's confident (for obvious reasons) that he'll win that job.

If he's coming for a year then it's completely plausible that himself and McPhillips will push each other on and learn from each other and leave better players. And Ulster benefit from both himself and McPhillips being motivated by the competition, rather than the alternative which is a young 10 with a long way to go playing with no competition and no safety net.

awec wrote: »

Ah here IBF.

The whole point in him going is to get game time at 10. The IRFU are not going to throw money at him, he isn't coming for a love of Ulster and he certainly isn't coming to win trophies. Can we take a step back into reality and away from this utopian dreamworld you currently inhabit?

He absolutely is being promised a place. He may not start every single week, but he is undoubtedly being told he will be the main man at Ulster.

This just isn't how professional sports works. They don't need to promise him a place, he will be completely confident that he'll win it on his own.

This is just paranoia, they aren't going to get themselves stuck in a promise of gametime to a player.

irishfan9 wrote: »

Carbery isn't going north to sit on the bench cause if he does he may aswell stay at leinster.

Of course he's not.

But there's a difference between going North with the intention of playing 10 and being promised a starting position.

He would be extremely confident about winning the 10 jersey from Johnny McPhillips. That's completely understandable.

What is separate to that is the myth that he would be promised the gametime. If he went up there and stank the place up while McPhillips was playing well, he'd be on the bench. Just as he would be if he stank the place up while Byrne played well in Dublin.

awec wrote: »

In any 50/50 selection call Carbery is going to get the nod. He will be the default pick. He is going up with the promise of being the first choice 10.

Be ironic if resource shortage moved him to 15 again.

launish116 wrote: »

Be ironic if resource shortage moved him to 15 again.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that he ends up at 15 long term, tbh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

awec wrote: »

I think this is a bit of an understatement.

To parachute a player in for a single season would be incredibly detrimental to Ulster.

It absolutely would not be 'incredibly detrimental' to Ulster to have a capped international 10 arrive to compete with McPhillips. Let's try to keep a grip on reality here.

It may not be better than signing an experienced NIQ 10, but beggars can't be choosers.

Nothing about beggars. This is being done purely for the convenience of Ireland. Assuming you accept the Irish hierarchy then it's fair enough.

Personally I think Carbery is a cracking player so I welcome him. But in the medium to long term this doesn't help Ulster.

McPhillips will still probably get about 10 starts next season.

I don't think it would be out of the question that Carbery remains at Ulster long term if it suits all parties. Ulster should have their fingers crossed that Byrne/Byrne Jr./Frawley develop into strong players.