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8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

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  • #662
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    Great. We'll return to the suggestion I'm more comfortable with. The baby is innocent and doesn't deserve to be killed bar the mother's life is in danger.

    And women will continue to travel or order the abortions pills, meaning the innocent baby has no real protections in any case, but the innocent women has greater risks to her health.

    A No vote helps no one, including the unborn. A Yes vote at least helps women.


  • #663
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    _Dara_ wrote: »
    Nope, it's hare-brained because there is no one way a woman who has been raped acts. A doctor shouldn't be put in the position of deciding whether a woman is lying about it or not.

    A rape provision would be completely unworkable. With your suggestion, you've done nothing but underline that.

    Oh and women who have a crisis pregnancy (be it financial or medical) are among the most vulnerable in society. But fuck them, right?

    Great. We'll return to the suggestion I'm more comfortable with. The baby is innocent and doesn't deserve to be killed bar the mother's life is in danger.
    How would you prove the mothers life is in danger.
    A 99% chance, maybe the bar could be set at 80%. These judgement calls are hard to make. There are no definites in assessing these risks.


  • #664
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    And women will continue to travel or order the abortions pills, meaning the innocent baby has no real protections in any case, but the innocent women has greater risks to her health.

    A No vote helps no one, including the unborn. A Yes vote at least helps women.

    And the abortions happen later on average so if your in any way concerned about the development level of the fetus, the situation has been worsened.


  • #665
    DOS
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 191 ✭✭DOS


    erica74 wrote: »
    her rapist's baby?

    INCORRECT: Nobody owns anybody, slavery was abolished a long time ago.
    Science says that the baby has it's own DNA formed from 50% of it's mother's and 50% it's father's. To use language like "rapist's baby" is emotional hogwash.


  • #666
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    erica74 wrote: »
    Do you not want to answer that question?

    I've answered it. Read again.


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  • #667
    Moiratat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 ✭Moiratat


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    It's morally wrong imo to kill an innocent baby. We make decisions for our constitution not on how they effect us individually but for what we perceive to be the common good.

    "I was not in good health, my mind was a toxic place of hatred and depression from my family and boyfriend abusing me. My mother an alcoholic to put it lightly left for weeks on end, leaving me with my baby brother and 3 younger sisters and no food or money. My older sister was never home and if she was she would only abuse us further (my older sister having sexually abused me and them). I "had" my boyfriend at the time, he abused me physically and mentally and it got to a stage where he would rape me and call me a slut or a whore afterwards. I became pregnant. My told my boyfriend and he tried to kill my baby by beating me, by forcing me to drink alcohol and many other ways, his family were stern Catholics. To me I wanted my baby, I wanted to be able to keep him or her and love them ,I still do love them but I had to look after my siblings which I couldn't do if my mother kicked me out which she would have. And I would have liked to have given my baby the best life possible and couldn't if I was kicked out and even at that point my baby could've been seriously hurt. My boyfriend threatened me that if I did not go to England he would kill me. So I did and I miss my baby terribly but I had to do what I did. Am I a murderer because of it or a killer? Every time I go out and see one of the no posters I want to end my life. I feel so much shame and disgust at myself. I had to leave my home to say goodbye to my baby, because of the eighth."

    So did I kill my baby?


  • #668
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    So not to include rape victims. How does that jive with your whole "weakest in society" spiel?

    Some of the weakest in society seems to be your philosophy.

    You don't believe in the protection of all the weakest members of our society.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but no one is proposing killing a mother? Just a baby..the weakest in society.


  • #669
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    DOS wrote: »
    INCORRECT. Sections 58 and 59 of the 1861 offences against the persons act have been deleted.

    sooo that the Protection of Life during pregnancy Act (2013) could be enacted.
    May I draw your attention to section 22 of that Act:
    Destruction of unborn human life
    22. (1) It shall be an offence to intentionally destroy unborn human life.
    (2) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on indictment to
    a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years, or both.
    (3) A prosecution for an offence under this section may be brought only by or with the
    consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2013/act/35/enacted/en/pdf

    That legislation will remain in force until government decides to repeal/replace it. It will still be in force that day after Repeal wins.


  • #670
    erica74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭erica74


    DOS wrote: »
    INCORRECT: Nobody owns anybody, slavery was abolished a long time ago.
    Science says that the baby has it's own DNA formed from 50% of it's mother's and 50% it's father's. To use language like "rapist's baby" is emotional hogwash.

    Ah would you get a grip, seriously, get a grip!
    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    I've answered it. Read again.

    So you think a woman should be forced to carry her rapist's baby, I am mortified for you, absolutely mortified.


  • #671
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong but no one is proposing killing a mother? Just a baby..the weakest in society.

    All kinds of issues affect society's weakness members. You either care about the most vulnerable in society or you don't. And YOU quite clearly don't.


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  • #672
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    DOS wrote: »
    INCORRECT: Nobody owns anybody, slavery was abolished a long time ago.
    Science says that the baby has it's own DNA formed from 50% of it's mother's and 50% it's father's. To use language like "rapist's baby" is emotional hogwash.

    Rapist’s gestating fetus?


  • #673
    bfa1509
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭bfa1509


    erica74 wrote: »

    So you think a woman should be forced to carry her rapist's baby, I am mortified for you, absolutely mortified.

    So you think a baby should die because it's father is a rapist?


    I hope as many people as possible look at things from both perspectives and decide which should take priority.


  • #674
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    DOS wrote: »
    INCORRECT: Nobody owns anybody, slavery was abolished a long time ago.
    Science says that the baby has it's own DNA formed from 50% of it's mother's and 50% it's father's. To use language like "rapist's baby" is emotional hogwash.

    DOS wrote: »


    Science says that the baby has it's own DNA formed from 50% of it's mother's and 50% it's father's. ...

    When you move on to Blue Book 2 you'll learn about dominant and recessive genes


  • #675
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    All kinds of issues affect society's weakness members. You either care about the most vulnerable in society or you don't. And YOU quite clearly don't.

    No YOU quite clearly don't.


  • #676
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,501 ✭ [Deleted User]


    amcalester wrote: »
    Rapist’s gestating fetus?

    The games we play with language to sanitise things to ourselves.


  • #677
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong but no one is proposing killing a mother? Just a baby..the weakest in society.
    Actually you are by supporting the 8th, the deaths of mothers caused by the 8th are one of the reasons why we are getting a vote on this.

    You don't support cases for FFA so you'd rather see a baby born to be in pain until dies from its condition, often just minutes after being born. Which just adds to the suffering it's mother is already going through since the day of the diagnosis.

    Your posts on rape are an insult to anyone who has been affected by this horrendous act.


  • #678
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    erica74 wrote: »
    Ah would you get a grip, seriously, get a grip!



    So you think a woman should be forced to carry her rapist's baby, I am mortified for you, absolutely mortified.

    You're too emotional to make sense this evening.

    As pointed out several times the baby is innocent.


  • #679
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    Actually you are by supporting the 8th, the deaths of mothers caused by the 8th are one of the reasons why we are getting a vote on this.

    You don't support cases for FFA so you'd rather see a baby born to be in pain until dies from its condition, often just minutes after being born. Which just adds to the suffering it's mother is already going through since the day of the diagnosis.

    Your posts on rape are an insult to anyone who has been affected by this horrendous act.

    And your post's are an insult to innocent life.


  • #680
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    NAGDEFI wrote:
    As pointed out several times the baby is innocent.


    So is the woman who has been raped.


  • #681
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    What's with the sudden influx of posters calling a foetus a baby and saying pro-choice want to murder babies?

    Do people genuinely believe that there are that many people out there who are happy to actually murder babies?


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  • #682
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    You're too emotional to make sense this evening.

    As pointed out several times the baby is innocent.

    Sure she's just a woman, terrible things the women getting all emotional and all. You're talking sh1te.


  • #683
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    It's morally wrong imo to kill an innocent baby. We make decisions for our constitution not on how they effect us individually but for what we perceive to be the common good.

    Is it morally right to further traumatise a rape victim?
    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    Great. We'll return to the suggestion I'm more comfortable with. The baby is innocent and doesn't deserve to be killed bar the mother's life is in danger.

    What about when miscarrying? Would you agree that a foetus that will inevitably die should be aborted?


  • #684
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    I've answered it. Read again.

    So if your wife/daughter/sister found herself pregnant as a result of rape, you would be advising and pleading with her not to have a termination? You would want her and encourage her to keep the baby?

    Or is it only a problem when other people’s wives do it?


  • #685
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    And your post's are an insult to innocent life.

    Actually their not but you already know that, your posts however read like you really have a problem with women having any control over their lives and medical care.


  • #686
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    bfa1509 wrote: »
    So you think a baby should die because it's father is a rapist?

    It is not a baby, and virtually everyone supports abortion after rape.

    But please go ahead and show the fence sitters that there is no compromising with the pro-life side.


  • #687
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    What's with the sudden influx of posters calling a foetus a baby and saying pro-choice want to murder babies?

    ...,...

    Wait until it gets nearer the referendum date

    you'll see all the tactics

    * BOOOP BEEEP DEFLECT DEFLECT DEFLECT
    * OPERATION THREAD SHUTDOWN
    * MUST ....ANTAGONISE POSTER


  • #688
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    Triceratops Ballet wrote: »
    So is the woman who has been raped.

    No one is proposing to take her life though.


  • #689
    bfa1509
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭bfa1509


    erica74 wrote: »

    So you think a woman should be forced to carry her rapist's baby, I am mortified for you, absolutely mortified.
    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    What's with the sudden influx of posters calling a foetus a baby and saying pro-choice want to murder babies?

    Do people genuinely believe that there are that many people out there who are happy to actually murder babies?

    I think you will find that it was someone who is pro-choice who referred to the foetus as a "baby". I only presented a different perspective using her own words.


  • #690
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    Actually their not but you already know that, your posts however read like you really have a problem with women having any control over their lives and medical care.

    They are. Abortion on demand kills innocent life.


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  • #691
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    They are. Abortion on demand kills innocent life.


    So you want pregnancy tests at airports then ?


This discussion has been closed.
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