8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Ave Sodalis

thee glitz wrote:

If yes, then why not call for those cases alone to be addressed by the proposed legislation?

How exactly do you propose that you legislate for rape?

SusieBlue

Abortions have happened since the dawn of time.
Abortions are happening today, despite it being illegal.
Abortions will happen in the future regardless of the outcome of the referendum.
So long as women are getting pregnant there will be women seeking to terminate.

This isn’t going to go away.
The question is whether we want to regulate it and supervise it or whether we want to continue to export it.
We have the same outcome, one just ends in more late term abortions, and adds extra pain and suffering to vulnerable distressed women.

Women who are, you know, made up of 50% of the population. Women who could be your wife or sister or daughter.
We need to look after our women before we offer the unborn any rights at their expense.

Every born girl and woman is of more value and worth than a >12 week gestated fetus. It shouldn’t even be up for discussion.
She should always come first unless she chooses otherwise.

Hammer Archer

NAGDEFI wrote: »

I was concerned about you. Excessive use of the caps lock function can denote anxiety. You ok?

Perfectly fine thanks. Speaking of comprehension, any chance you could tell me whether you would subject your loved one to the rape committee that you charmingly suggested earlier? You seemed to have missed that.

NAGDEFI

DubInMeath wrote: »

To me its the rape victim that takes precident as for some their pregnancy is a daily reminder of what they went through.

Also as a society we leave plenty of people behind in many areas, unless you have the money or live in an area not to left behind.

That's a well expressed opinion, and i'm not being sarcastic.

A pity you couldn't extend the same courtesy to those of us who wouldn't like to see a termination in such circumstances?

Wrongway1985

NAGDEFI wrote: »

I've already discussed how any woman in my life would have the final say in an abortion but i would try and present the pro life side to her.

But are you prepared to give her that say or just drop her to the airport if they do not accept your morals?

I can't comprehend any female carrying a thugs seed to term it should be down to her, brave person either way.

NAGDEFI

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Are you actually saying you would help her to murder an innocent baby (your words!) ? Be an accomplice to murder?

Or is all that murder talk insincere?

Who are you talking to Chief Social Justice Warrior?

NAGDEFI

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

But are you prepared to give her that say or just drop her to the airport if they do not accept your morals?

I can't comprehend any female carrying a thugs seed to term it should be down to her, brave person either way.

I'd go with her all the way to the clinic. Who chucks out a loved one because it clashes with principles?

As said before i'd offer her the best pro life guidance i could. But when she'd decide i'd be with her 100% That's what love is. But we also have our values/opinions.

NAGDEFI

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

But are you prepared to give her that say or just drop her to the airport if they do not accept your morals?

I can't comprehend any female carrying a thugs seed to term it should be down to her, brave person either way.

I accept your opinion Wrong Way. And i appreciate the way you make your points without insult.

Zubeneschamali

Has anyone else described abortion after rape as baby murder and then hinted that they would be an accomplice if a woman decided to murder their baby?

erica74

bfa1509 wrote: »

Who is the bigger victim here, the rape victim or the foetus? Why does the foetus have to pay the biggest price because of the circumstances of it's parents?

The rape victim is the victim.

bfa1509 wrote: »

What difference does it make to me personally? It doesn't make a difference to me personally if a woman gets an abortion.

Well then, why are you trying to interfere in any woman's personal choice? Stay out of it, simple.

bfa1509 wrote: »

What does make a difference to me is that legislating in favor of abortion, in my view, is the biggest stumbling block we have ever hit in humanity. We have paved the way as a society that leaves nobody behind. We make buildings accessible for the disabled, we build bionic arms for those who have lost limbs, we have made amazing advances in medicine. And yet now we want to take a massive backstep by allowing to take away the precious life of the unborn? That is unforgivable and it will disgust me if I find myself as part of the generation that allows this through.

I'm not really sure what you mean here. Are you somehow linking abortion with disabled people?

bfa1509 wrote: »

Having said that, in the extremely rare terrible cases such as fatal fetal abnormality or serious threat to the mothers life (not including risk of suicide), I think abortion should be allowed.

So you want to prevent these women getting essential care here in Ireland because you hate all of the other women who might need an abortion?

qxtasybe1nwfh2

NAGDEFI wrote: »

I'd go with her all the way to the clinic. Who chucks out a loved one because it clashes with principles?

As said before i'd offer her the best pro life guidance i could. But when she'd decide i'd be with her 100% That's what love is. But we also have our values/opinions.

So you’re pro choice then?

SusieBlue

NAGDEFI wrote: »

I'd go with her all the way to the clinic. Who chucks out a loved one because it clashes with principles?

As said before i'd offer her the best pro life guidance i could. But when she'd decide i'd be with her 100% That's what love is. But we also have our values/opinions.

I don’t think you can see the irony in what you’re saying.
Do you not think she should be able to access that termination in Ireland?

Hammer Archer

NAGDEFI wrote: »

I'd go with her all the way to the clinic. Who chucks out a loved one because it clashes with principles?

As said before i'd offer her the best pro life guidance i could. But when she'd decide i'd be with her 100% That's what love is. But we also have our values/opinions.

But it looks like you wouldn't subject her to questioning by a committee of doctors who would determine whether she was raped or not. Do you agree that this suggestion of yours is ridiculous?

Zubeneschamali

NAGDEFI wrote: »

I'd go with her all the way to the clinic. Who chucks out a loved one because it clashes with principles?.

Wow, if a woman in my life wanted to murder a baby I'd call the police, not help her.

You clearly don't believe all that murder talk.

joe40

NAGDEFI wrote: »

joe40 wrote: »

"I have strong opinions but in the end would go along with the females wishes"

That is exactly what we are all been asked to do in this vote

No it's not.

Yes it actually is. You come accross as a generally decent person and have stated your abhorrence of abortion.
If a family member, friend acquaintance had an abortion, and you were informed. Would you shun them, judge them as terrible people for committing a terrible act. Or would you have compassion and understanding for their predicament despite your personal opposition to their act.
That is what we are been asked to do on a national level. A yes vote will only take away a harmful amendment, it will not increase the number of abortions.
There are entrenched anti abortionists who would happily see women in jail, you don't strike me as that type of individual. Maybe I'm wrong.

NAGDEFI

NAGDEFI wrote: »

Again more ganging up on No voters.

The thread is a farce and unrepresentative of the views of society as a whole.

There's a concerted effort here to paint me as an abuser of women. Just because i'm pro life.

I've already discussed how any woman in my life would have the final say in an abortion but i would try and present the pro life side to her.

Well maybe if didn't tell people not to post their opinions, because in yours they were a little emotional, and stop repeating they same post over and over again people would take your opinion more seriously.

NAGDEFI

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Perfectly fine thanks. Speaking of comprehension, any chance you could tell me whether you would subject your loved one to the rape committee that you charmingly suggested earlier? You seemed to have missed that.

At least one of us is capable of charm, and i suppose i better clarify it's not you:D

Missed that one. About 30 of you asking me questions. Your not that important.

It may only be one doctor. That's an idea needs thrashing out. I've described in detail how i would act with a loved one.

Martina1991

NAGDEFI wrote:

I'd go with her all the way to the clinic. Who chucks out a loved one because it clashes with principles?
As said before i'd offer her the best pro life guidance i could. But when she'd decide i'd be with her 100% That's what love is. But we also have our values/opinions.

The hypocrisy is overwhelming.

Would you constantly tell her she was a murderer while you brought her to the clinic?

NAGDEFI

DubInMeath wrote: »

Well maybe if didn't tell people not to post their opinions, because in yours they were a little emotional, and stop repeating they same post over and over again people would take your opinion more seriously.

I never told people not to post their opinions. Complete lie.

And one's truth can only be expressed in so many ways. How many ways can you say you feel killing unborn babies is wrong? Despite the best thesaurus available you'd run out of phrases. Also i have to repeat it to the present gang of 30 or so on here arguing against me.

It's much easier for 30 to take on 1 or 2 posters.

And this thread is a farce with no regulation. No voters told to Go F Themselves last night and no action. Yet you get a ban for giving out about idiots who went out during Ophelia.

Complete farce of a thread mods. Hope you're reading.

Hannibal_Smith

bfa1509 wrote: »

Who is the bigger victim here, the rape victim or the foetus? Why does the foetus have to pay the biggest price because of the circumstances of it's parents?

There is your answer.

It really worries me that this kind of mentality is growing legs. To be so insensitive to a woman who has suffered rape to be able to say to her, tough that you're pregnant but that feotus is much a victim as You, now carry it, give birth to it and care for its whole life long. I don't believe anyone who has the capacity to consider that acceptable has any empathy towards any feotus or any woman. They are just grasping at any straw they can to discount freedom of choice and to keep women in their place.

People say they will protect the feotus as it is the most vulnerable member of society. That is hard to believe when they can throw around the ideology that a woman must bear her rapist's offspring. While people are busy protecting the unborn, who is protecting the living?

robarmstrong

I respect that you would agree with her decision NAGDEFI and ultimately support your friend in this rape scenario, I understand that you are pro-life, but do you feel it would be a bit wrong trying to convince or argue your point of keeping the pregnancy if she was raped? Would you not just set aside your personal views (like I am for this referendum, I am not pro abortion nor am I an advocate for it, I don't agree with abortion whatsoever and I would give an arm and a leg to ensure there was no need for it in this world if possible) and you know, not try convince her to keep the baby?

Is the trauma of rape not enough, surely she wouldn't need someone trying to convince her to keep the pregnancy that stemmed from it?

NAGDEFI

Martina1991 wrote: »

The hypocrisy is overwhelming.

Would you constantly tell her she was a murderer while you brought her to the clinic?

Martina you want people to deny their beliefs. My support for a loved one would be 100% if they made that decision. Our conversation would be none of your business.

You are constantly trying to paint pro life people as somehow inherently evil. Time you were told to get off your soap box. That people can hold various opinions but that does not make them bad people be they pro choice or pro life.

NAGDEFI

robarmstrong wrote: »

I respect that you would agree with her decision NAGDEFI and ultimately support your friend in this rape scenario, I understand that you are pro-life, but do you feel it would be a bit wrong trying to convince or argue your point of keeping the pregnancy if she was raped? Would you not just set aside your personal views (like I am for this referendum, I am not pro abortion nor am I an advocate for it, I don't agree with abortion whatsoever and I would give an arm and a leg to ensure there was no need for it in this world if possible) and you know, not try convince her to keep the baby?

Is the trauma of rape not enough, surely she wouldn't need someone trying to convince her to keep the pregnancy that stemmed from it?

Thanks Rob Armstrong.

No doubt they initial conversation would be beyond difficult. If my female friend was beyond distraught and wanted an abortion i would envisage not arguing at all. Yes.

mohawk

https://twitter.com/TarynDeVere/status/989109531459440640

I find the hypocrisy this tweet highlights amusing despite the serious nature of this referendum.

Ninjavampire

If it passes, how long do you reckon it will take to allow for later term abortions? There will still be plenty of women going over to England after 12 weeks which will just bring up a lot of the same taking points down the line.

NAGDEFI

Tenley Witty Bulb wrote: »

So you’re pro choice then?

No. I stated my beliefs. But you'd have to make a humanitarian call. Are you telling me i can't be pro life yet support my raped sister? We're in very grey areas.

But no human could turn their back on another if their distress was so great. I could do my very best, under the circumstances to offer a pro life view.

NAGDEFI

NAGDEFI wrote: »

I never told people not to post their opinions. Complete lie.

And one's truth can only be expressed in so many ways. How many ways can you say you feel killing unborn babies is wrong? Despite the best thesaurus available you'd run out of phrases. Also i have to repeat it to the present gang of 30 or so on here arguing against me.

It's much easier for 30 to take on 1 or 2 posters.

And this thread is a farce with no regulation. No voters told to Go F Themselves last night and no action. Yet you get a ban for giving out about idiots who went out during Ophelia.

Complete farce of a thread mods. Hope you're reading.

Actually you did here's your post

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106882666&postcount=678

If you want to be treated with respect treat people with respect.

robarmstrong

NAGDEFI wrote: »

Thanks Rob Armstrong.

No doubt they initial conversation would be beyond difficult. If my female friend was beyond distraught and wanted an abortion i would envisage not arguing at all. Yes.

Thanks for your mature response.

Then with that, if she was beyond distraught and wanted an abortion (which is understandable given the circumstances!) would you not prefer for her to have the abortion here, rather than abroad? I'm in no way shape or form trying to antagonise or trap you here, I'm just trying to have a reasonable engagement here is all.

If you were fine with her wanting an abortion and would support her in seeking one (which I have to say, fair play to you as I know it goes against your pro-life views so kudos for putting them aside in this hypothetical scenario) surely you would want her to be here, rather than in another country, no?

NAGDEFI

DubInMeath wrote: »

Actually you did here's your post

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106882666&postcount=678

If you want to be treated with respect treat people with respect.

One overly repetitive poster.

Ave Sodalis

Ninjavampire wrote:

If it passes, how long do you reckon it will take to allow for later term abortions? There will still be plenty of women going over to England after 12 weeks which will just bring up a lot of the same taking points down the line.

A long time, if not never, I would say. There's not much reason to go further when the vast vast majority of abortions happen before 12 weeks in legal countries. If an Irish woman gets an abortion in the UK after 12 weeks, it's very often due to FFA, or due to financial difficulties regarding travel.