8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

January

bfa1509 wrote: »

All true. But how is the doctor that carries out an abortion not a murderer? Are they some kind of consensual murderer? I'm not sure how one would argue that in a court.

Because by law an abortion is not murder, that's how.

The foetus should not hold rights equal and above to the mother as it does now. Women should be able to make the decision to end a pregnancy if that is what she deems the right decision for herself and her family. She should not be forced to continue with the pregnancy if she does not have the means to travel (finances, travel documents, childcare arrangments) and she should definitely not be forced to order pills online, worry if they'll actually arrive or not and the worry that if something goes wrong she could go to jail for 14 years.

Voting no is not voting to stop abortion in this country, voting no is voting to keep unsafe abortion in this country. Abortion happens whether it is legal or not, women are desperate enough to take pills without medical supervision. How can this carry on?

Hammer Archer

NAGDEFI wrote: »

Well you have no respect for innocent life and the unborn. You in some way think that your opinions on abortion make you a better person?

There are many differing ways to respect women.

One of those ways by telling them that you know what's best for them? They can't make those decisions themselves after all.

NuMarvel

NAGDEFI wrote: »

That's utter rubbish. You can't deny the right to travel. But you can legislate as much as possible to protect the unborn.

What's with all the questions for No voters. We're not coming on here to be interviewed by the Yes bandwagon.

You can't now, that's true. But that's only because we did it once, and we were so horrified at what we did, we ran to the polls to make sure we couldn't do it again. Our concern and compassion for women took precedence over the unborn's right to life.

amcalester

NAGDEFI wrote: »

There are many differing ways to respect women.

That may be so, but you haven’t demonstrated any.

Quite the opposite in fact.

The Legend Of Kira

To be hypothetical- in the event that 8th amendment is repealed on referendum day & lets say abortion clinics open around the country in the next year or two,, what are people,s thoughts on the issue of buffer zones ? as of recently buffer zones are set to be introduced in Britain.

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21740441-culture-wars-arrive-london-britains-first-buffer-zone-against-protests-outside-abortion

NAGDEFI

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Your posts paint the picture pretty well, thanks.


I actually believe that women are able to make decisions for themselves about what's best for them. Evidently you don't feel they're able to going by the above. More evidence of your thoughts about women.

I love the way an anonymous poster on the internet judges another anonymous poster.

If a loved one of mine was raped i would advocate having the baby. In conjunction with the wishes of the concerned female we would act. If the female wanted an abortion i would agree. But i would argue my pro life stance to the end.

So Mr. Hammer Head Archer stop judging me. I have strong opinions but at the end i would go along with the female's wishes. This would not stop me from trying to convince her that pro life was best.

So get lost you judgemental hypocrite who knows nothing about me as a person

I'm entitled to my views without an ole bandwagon basher like yourself make profound statements about my character.

gctest50

NAGDEFI wrote: »

Not discussion. Resentment and unreasonable amount of ridiculous questions. Like biblical pharisees trying to catch people out.

And turn off your caps lock. Getting a little hysterical are we?

That's the sort of behaviour you'd see sometimes with people who mentally abuse women or anyone they perceive to be in a weaker position

Bit of what they think will stir up their victim, then a few flat enough statements, then this sort of thing :

NAGDEFI wrote: »

...............

Getting a little hysterical are we?

NAGDEFI

NAGDEFI wrote: »

Not discussion. Resentment and unreasonable amount of ridiculous questions. Like biblical pharisees trying to catch people out.

And turn off your caps lock. Getting a little hysterical are we?

You seem to have an inate wish to control how people discuss and express their opinion when it doesn't agree with your point of view, also no understanding of sarcasm going by the above.

NAGDEFI

gctest50 wrote: »

That's the sort of behaviour you'd see sometimes with people who mentally abuse women or anyone they perceive to be in a weaker position

Bit of what they think to stir up their victim, then a few flat enough statements, then this sort of thing :

Right that's some accusation to make about someone. And i'm reporting you. He had his caps on shouting at me.

Hammer Archer

NAGDEFI wrote: »

I love the way an anonymous poster on the internet judges another anonymous poster.

If a loved one of mine was raped i would advocate having the baby. In conjunction with the wishes of the concerned female we would act. If the female wanted an abortion i would agree. But i would argue my pro life stance to the end.

So Mr. Hammer Head Archer stop judging me. I have strong opinions but at the end i would go along with the female's wishes. This would not stop me from trying to convince her that pro life was best.

So get lost you judgemental hypocrite who knows nothing about me as a person

I'm entitled to my views without an ole bandwagon basher like yourself make profound statements about my character.

Hmmmm and you said I was hysterical.
You've suggested that a panel of doctors decide whether or not a woman was raped. Would you put your loved one through this interrogation or is that reserved for women you don't know?

erica74

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

To be hypothetical- in the event that 8th amendment is repealed on referendum day & lets say abortion clinics open around the country in the next year or two,, what are people,s thoughts on the issue of buffer zones ? as of recently buffer zones are set to be introduced in Britain.

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21740441-culture-wars-arrive-london-britains-first-buffer-zone-against-protests-outside-abortion

I think that's an excellent idea.

joe40

NAGDEFI wrote: »

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Your posts paint the picture pretty well, thanks.


I actually believe that women are able to make decisions for themselves about what's best for them. Evidently you don't feel they're able to going by the above. More evidence of your thoughts about women.

I love the way an anonymous poster on the internet judges another anonymous poster.

If a loved one of mine was raped i would advocate having the baby. In conjunction with the wishes of the concerned female we would act. If the female wanted an abortion i would agree. But i would argue my pro life stance to the end.

So Mr. Hammer Head Archer stop judging me. I have strong opinions but at the end i would go along with the female's wishes. This would not stop me from trying to convince her that pro life was best.

So get lost you judgemental hypocrite who knows nothing about me as a person

I'm entitled to my views without an ole bandwagon basher like yourself make profound statements about my character.

"I have strong opinions but in the end would go along with the females wishes"

That is exactly what we are all been asked to do in this vote

bfa1509

erica74 wrote: »

If a rape victim wants to have an abortion, that should be HER CHOICE. Get it through your head, it's not difficult to comprehend.

I've asked this question many times and nobody has answered it, what difference does it make to you personally whether or not any woman anywhere has an abortion?

Who is the bigger victim here, the rape victim or the foetus? Why does the foetus have to pay the biggest price because of the circumstances of it's parents?

There is your answer.

What difference does it make to me personally? It doesn't make a difference to me personally if a woman gets an abortion. What does make a difference to me is that legislating in favor of abortion, in my view, is the biggest stumbling block we have ever hit in humanity. We have paved the way as a society that leaves nobody behind. We make buildings accessible for the disabled, we build bionic arms for those who have lost limbs, we have made amazing advances in medicine. And yet now we want to take a massive backstep by allowing to take away the precious life of the unborn? That is unforgivable and it will disgust me if I find myself as part of the generation that allows this through.

Having said that, in the extremely rare terrible cases such as fatal fetal abnormality or serious threat to the mothers life (not including risk of suicide), I think abortion should be allowed.

The Legend Of Kira

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

To be hypothetical- in the event that 8th amendment is repealed on referendum day & lets say abortion clinics open around the country in the next year or two,, what are people,s thoughts on the issue of buffer zones ? as of recently buffer zones are set to be introduced in Britain.

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21740441-culture-wars-arrive-london-britains-first-buffer-zone-against-protests-outside-abortion

Can't open that link blocked by work based filter will read it when back in the hotel, but have heard of buffer zones to stop pro life groups attacking and harrasing patients and staff.

gctest50

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

To be hypothetical- in the event that 8th amendment is repealed on referendum day & lets say abortion clinics open around the country in the next year or two,, what are people,s thoughts on the issue of buffer zones ? as of recently buffer zones are set to be introduced in Britain.

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21740441-culture-wars-arrive-london-britains-first-buffer-zone-against-protests-outside-abortion

Buffer zones are essential - we need them around maternity hospitals here , now



http://www.thejournal.ie/icbr-graphic-imagery-3988089-May2018/

Yesterday, the Irish Centre for Bio-Ethical Reform (ICBR) displayed the graphic imagery showing foetuses outside the National Maternity Hospital at Holles Street, the Rotunda Hospital and the Coombe Hospital.

The imagery was placed very close to the entrances of both hospitals, which meant that passers-by and those on their way into the hospital would have full sight of their content.

Zubeneschamali

NAGDEFI wrote: »

And i'm reporting you. He had his caps on shouting at me.

I thought it was social justice warriors like me who were the snowflakes?

NAGDEFI

DubInMeath wrote: »

You seem to have an inate wish to control how people discuss and express their opinion when it doesn't agree with your point of view, also no understanding of sarcasm going by the above.

Again more ganging up on No voters.

The thread is a farce and unrepresentative of the views of society as a whole.

There's a concerted effort here to paint me as an abuser of women. Just because i'm pro life.

I've already discussed how any woman in my life would have the final say in an abortion but i would try and present the pro life side to her.

amcalester

NAGDEFI wrote: »

Again more ganging up on No voters.

The thread is a farce and unrepresentative of the views of society as a whole.

There's a concerted effort here to paint me as an abuser of women. Just because i'm pro life.

I've already discussed how any woman in my life would have the final say in an abortion but i would try and present the pro life side to her.

So why not afford that right to the rest of Ireland’s women?

NAGDEFI

joe40 wrote: »

"I have strong opinions but in the end would go along with the females wishes"

That is exactly what we are all been asked to do in this vote

No it's not.

NuMarvel

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

To be hypothetical- in the event that 8th amendment is repealed on referendum day & lets say abortion clinics open around the country in the next year or two,, what are people,s thoughts on the issue of buffer zones ? as of recently buffer zones are set to be introduced in Britain.

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21740441-culture-wars-arrive-london-britains-first-buffer-zone-against-protests-outside-abortion

There probably won't be dedicated clinics. Most abortions will be medical, meaning women can go to GPs or family planning clinics to get the medication and take it at home. Surgical abortions will be carried out in existing hospitals.

I think anyone who sets up protests outside hospitals or GP offices will quickly find public opinion very much against them.

NAGDEFI

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Hmmmm and you said I was hysterical.
You've suggested that a panel of doctors decide whether or not a woman was raped. Would you put your loved one through this interrogation or is that reserved for women you don't know?

No i didn't i asked you with a question mark were you getting a little hysterical. You need to read and learn how to comprehend.

RobertKK

On Prime time, Dr Eamon McGuinness the former chairman of the Institute of obstetricians and gynaecologists who is for retain, says he has carried out 4 terminations of pregnancies during his career here to save the lives of women and did it with the 8th amendment in place.
Strange thing is the Yes doctor seems far more reserved when it comes to saving the life and talked about the 8th interfering.
Maybe some doctors are better than others at their job when it comes tot he 8th. Some work fine within the law of the 8th amendment, others look for problems.

thee glitz

DubInMeath wrote: »

Rape and FFA are just a happy convenience for repeal according to more than one of them.

Do you believe that allowing abortions in cases where the mother becomes pregnant due to rape, or where babies will not survive until birth, should be prioritised over others?

If yes, then why not call for those cases alone to be addressed by the proposed legislation?

If no, then it is a happy convenience.

bfa1509

bfa1509 wrote: »

Who is the bigger victim here, the rape victim or the foetus? Why does the foetus have to pay the biggest price because of the circumstances of it's parents?

There is your answer.

What difference does it make to me personally? It doesn't make a difference to me personally if a woman gets an abortion. What does make a difference to me is that legislating in favor of abortion, in my view, is the biggest stumbling block we have ever hit in humanity. We have paved the way as a society that leaves nobody behind. We make buildings accessible for the disabled, we build bionic arms for those who have lost limbs, we have made amazing advances in medicine. And yet now we want to take massive backstep by allowing to take away the precious life of the unborn. That is unforgivable and it will disgust me if I find myself as part of the generation that allows this through.

Having said that, in the extremely rare terrible cases such as fatal fetal abnormality or serious threat to the mothers life (not including risk of suicide), I think abortion should be allowed.

To me its the rape victim that takes precident as for some their pregnancy is a daily reminder of what they went through.

Also as a society we leave plenty of people behind in many areas, unless you have the money or live in an area not to left behind.

Ninjavampire

Watching the Late Late Show debate and something that struck me was when the pro-choice side said they believe life starts at conception, some common ground between both sides. Is this the official stance of the ‘yes’ camp?

Hammer Archer

NAGDEFI wrote: »

No i didn't i asked you with a question mark were you getting a little hysterical. You need to read and learn how to comprehend.

Sure you were

NAGDEFI

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I thought it was social justice warriors like me who were the snowflakes?

'Social Justice' bit of a misnomer in this case. Your sense of justice doesn't extend to unborn babies:)

gctest50

thee glitz wrote: »

Do you believe that allowing abortions in cases where the mother becomes pregnant due to rape, or where babies will not survive until birth, should be prioritised over others?

If yes, then why not call for those cases alone to be addressed by the proposed legislation?

If no, then it is a happy convenience.

Why so desparate to retain the 8th ?

NAGDEFI

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Sure you were

I was concerned about you. Excessive use of the caps lock function can denote anxiety. You ok?

Zubeneschamali

Are you actually saying you would help her to murder an innocent baby (your words!) ? Be an accomplice to murder?

Or is all that murder talk insincere?