The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

January · 22-04-2018 07:01PM

jluv wrote: »

When talks of repeal first surfaced I was a definite "No" voter. I think because like others I didn't totally understand what the 8th meant. Through discussions and reading up on it I am now a definite to vote "Yes".
However if the 8th is repealed I feel that is where my dilemma will start. I'm not in agreement to abortion up to 12 weeks for any reason. But I have to separate the 2 .

Yessssss, someone has it. Everyone read this post. Repeal the 8th and thennnnn fight the legislation if you're not in agreement!

iamwhoiam · 22-04-2018 07:04PM

jluv wrote: »

When talks of repeal first surfaced I was a definite "No" voter. I think because like others I didn't totally understand what the 8th meant. Through discussions and reading up on it I am now a definite to vote "Yes".
However if the 8th is repealed I feel that is where my dilemma will start. I'm not in agreement to abortion up to 12 weeks for any reason. But I have to separate the 2 .

My thoughts too . I will vote Yes as we need legislation to change . My one worry is like yours about the 12 week any reason abortion . But that is for another day I think

RobertKK · 22-04-2018 07:11PM

jluv wrote: »

When talks of repeal first surfaced I was a definite "No" voter. I think because like others I didn't totally understand what the 8th meant. Through discussions and reading up on it I am now a definite to vote "Yes".
However if the 8th is repealed I feel that is where my dilemma will start. I'm not in agreement to abortion up to 12 weeks for any reason. But I have to separate the 2 .

Both come together though, because the unrestricted 12 weeks is government policy to replace the 8th amendment with.

AnneFrank · 22-04-2018 07:14PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

My thoughts too . I will vote Yes as we need legislation to change . My one worry is like yours about the 12 week any reason abortion . But that is for another day I think

The horse will already have bolted

Sofiztikated · 22-04-2018 07:16PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Both come together though, because the unrestricted 12 weeks is government policy to replace the 8th amendment with.

AnneFrank wrote: »

The horse will already have bolted

Not really, because legislation can change, and be changed a lot easier than a constitutional amendment.

22-04-2018 07:17PM

amdublin wrote: »

I think some of them are very impactful with strong messages.

I've seen ones saying "Trust the Women you know"
Your sister
Your daughter
Your mother

I think the Together for Yes one "Sometimes a private matter needs public support" is a great one to get people out who feel that it doesn't directly affect them so no need to vote,

And then "compassion in a crisis" is a really lovely message about stopping shaming and punishing women.

There will be some people who believe they should be shamed and punished, if the actions of pro life groups in other countries are anything to go by including the U.K.

https://nypost.com/2017/06/20/pro-life-protesters-threatened-to-kill-clinic-patients-workers-suit/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/abortion-uk-protests-government-urged-change-laws-clinics-vigils-a7984601.html

https://www.catholicireland.net/pro-life-activist-convicted-harassment/

RobertKK · 22-04-2018 07:18PM

January wrote: »

Yessssss, someone has it. Everyone read this post. Repeal the 8th and thennnnn fight the legislation if you're not in agreement!

That is the wrong way around if one wants to fight the legislation that is proposed. Some politicians even say 12 weeks is just the start.
Some Yes advocates on the together for yes campaign even say the unborn should have no protections right up to birth.

If this referendum fails we will have another referendum at some stage, it won't be 35 years times next time, it will be far far sooner, and if this is rejected this time, a more restricted abortion regime will be voted on.

The current referendum is 'trust politicians' and people like Leo Varadkar and Simon Harris who ran on pro-life grounds in their election campaigns and then present unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks and longer for other reasons.

One has to vote on what is being proposed, the only way to stop the 12 weeks unrestricted is a no vote. Anything else gives a green light to it.

jluv · 22-04-2018 07:19PM

RobertKK wrote: »

jluv wrote: »

When talks of repeal first surfaced I was a definite "No" voter. I think because like others I didn't totally understand what the 8th meant. Through discussions and reading up on it I am now a definite to vote "Yes".
However if the 8th is repealed I feel that is where my dilemma will start. I'm not in agreement to abortion up to 12 weeks for any reason. But I have to separate the 2 .

Both come together though, because the unrestricted 12 weeks is government policy to replace the 8th amendment with.

I know which is why I will have a personal dilemma. I still cannot vote against repeal as I care more about people who would be affected if the 8th remains in place. I really wish the two were not linked and perhaps they should be treated separately so that all get to say equally how they really feel..

January · 22-04-2018 07:22PM

Stop with the lies Robert, you've been called out so many times on it. If the 8th is repealed the 12 week legislation is not a guarantee. It could be shot down at the first hurdle by members of the Dail, you and I both know it you just love to scaremonger.

22-04-2018 07:24PM

RobertKK wrote: »

That is the wrong way around if one wants to fight the legislation that is proposed. Some politicians even say 12 weeks is just the start.
Some Yes advocates on the together for yes campaign even say the unborn should have no protections right up to birth.

If this referendum fails we will have another referendum at some stage, it won't be 35 years times next time, it will be far far sooner, and if this is rejected this time, a more restricted abortion regime will be voted on.

The current referendum is 'trust politicians' and people like Leo Varadkar and Simon Harris who ran on pro-life grounds in their election campaigns and then present unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks and longer for other reasons.

One has to vote on what is being proposed, the only way to stop the 12 weeks unrestricted is a no vote. Anything else gives a green light to it.

Nope it's trust women, it's even a slogan. Haven't heard any of the repeal groups use the slogan trust politicians.

RobertKK · 22-04-2018 07:27PM

January wrote: »

Stop with the lies Robert, you've been called out so many times on it. If the 8th is repealed the 12 week legislation is not a guarantee. It could be shot down at the first hurdle by members of the Dail, you and I both know it you just love to scaremonger.

Stop making up I am telling lies please.

Yes people tell lies but it is ok, if one doesn't agree it is "lies".

Read what is proposed, it is not lies what I post. It is lies to make out one doesn't know what is proposed by the government.

gctest50 · 22-04-2018 07:27PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Some politicians even say 12 weeks is just the start.

Another apocolypse post - same as this gem from this very thread :

RobertKK wrote: »

We will be living on other planets and moons, people need to expand their minds to where human civilisation is headed.
An asteroid could easily wipe out most of the planet, maybe a supervolcano causing a volcanic winter like when Mount Toba erupted roughly 75,000 years ago.
Today's population could easily be mostly wiped out by natural causes, because the Earth has a history for wiping out at a lot of life in big events, In time the world's population will be far lower and there is nothing that can stop some natural events.
Humans have all their eggs in one basket on this planet, likewise some other human lives had their eggs in a woman who is for or against an abortion as a choice and it decided their outcome.

RobertKK wrote: »

If this referendum fails we will have another referendum at some stage, it won't be 35 years times next time, it will be far far sooner,
and if this is rejected this time, a more restricted abortion regime will be voted on.

That is a really poor attempt at manipulating people

That post makes it look like you think people are thick or something

iamwhoiam · 22-04-2018 07:29PM

jluv wrote: »

I know which is why I will have a personal dilemma. I still cannot vote against repeal as I care more about people who would be affected if the 8th remains in place. I really wish the two were not linked and perhaps they should be treated separately so that all get to say equally how they really feel..

I have to vote Yes for all the women who need this repealed . I have to vote Yes despite my misgivings about the 12 week open door . But I have to forget my misgivings because there are women out there who desperately need my Yes vote so change can happen . I will vote Yes for my fellow citizens who need me to help them deal with tragic circumstances .

22-04-2018 07:33PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Stop making up I am telling lies please.

Yes people tell lies but it is ok, if one doesn't agree it is "lies".

Read what is proposed, it is not lies what I post. It is lies to make out one doesn't know what is proposed by the government.

You were mod warned for un-factual statements earlier in the thread regarding the doctors in the miss p case using her as a stunt, but so far the poster you quoted hasn't been. What lies have they and other repeal posters wrote on here in your opinion, with evidence if available?

Ave Sodalis · 22-04-2018 07:38PM

jluv wrote:

When talks of repeal first surfaced I was a definite "No" voter. I think because like others I didn't totally understand what the 8th meant. Through discussions and reading up on it I am now a definite to vote "Yes". However if the 8th is repealed I feel that is where my dilemma will start. I'm not in agreement to abortion up to 12 weeks for any reason. But I have to separate the 2 .

iamwhoiam wrote:

My thoughts too . I will vote Yes as we need legislation to change . My one worry is like yours about the 12 week any reason abortion . But that is for another day I think

Please feel free to disregard this post, but if this helps ease your mind about the 12 weeks, this would really help rape victims who do not want to carry their rapist's child. They do not have to go through the legal system if they are not ready for it (which would take far far longer than 12 weeks, even years), but they do not have to live with a daily reminder of their trauma if they do not want to. You cannot really legislate for rape victims as anyone can claim they are raped if their word was just taken for it, so I think this is fairest for them.

iamwhoiam · 22-04-2018 07:41PM

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Please feel free to disregard this post, but if this helps ease your mind about the 12 weeks, this would really help rape victims who do not want to carry their rapist's child. They do not have to go through the legal system if they are not ready for it (which would take far far longer than 12 weeks, even years), but they do not have to live with a daily reminder of their trauma if they do not want to. You cannot really legislate for rape victims as anyone can claim they are raped if their word was just taken for it, so I think this is fairest for them.

Absolutely agree which is why I have to vote to help these women and others who are carrying the burden of a dreadful tragic circumstance

22-04-2018 07:47PM

RobertKK wrote: »

One has to vote on what is being proposed, the only way to stop the 12 weeks unrestricted is a no vote. Anything else gives a green light to it.

Are you aware of how a law is passed in Ireland?
There is not even a bill proposed on this yet.

RobertKK · 22-04-2018 07:50PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Another apocolypse post

That is a really poor attempt at manipulating people

That post makes it look like you think people are thick or something

One can only vote on what is being proposed to replace it, something the Yes side try to avoid with talk of compassion, trust women, no mention of abortion on Yes posters, because they know if they were to put what the government plans to replace the 8th amendment with, it is bad for the Yes side.

I don't think people are thick, but if a person wants a clear conscience on the issue, and unrestricted abortion is an issue, then one can't really separate the issues, because currently removing the 8th amendment will lead to unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks, and longer in other cases.

If repeal wins, then we are all in the 'trust politicians' area and it is clear from some of the politicians on the yes side, who said they were pro-life and against the killing of the unborn, they are now advocating unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks. These are the kind of people one has to trust, when they enter the polling booth.

Salty · 22-04-2018 07:52PM

The debate on the 8th amendment has been eye-opening. I am pro-choice and will be voting yes in the upcoming referendum; I have always found it shameful that we export our "problems" overseas. The choice to terminate a pregnancy is a personal one, and currently the state has implanted itself firmly in our wombs where it does not belong!

I was not aware about the implications of the 8th on female healthcare. That has been enlightening for me. I am 25 and I must say, I would be afraid to fall pregnant under current conditions. Ireland is not a safe place to be a pregnant woman. I am hopeful this will change.

RobertKK · 22-04-2018 07:52PM

bubblypop wrote: »

Are you aware of how a law is passed in Ireland?
There is not even a bill proposed on this yet.

Proposed legislation is based on the Dail committee which recommended 12 weeks unrestricted and longer in other cases.

Ave Sodalis · 22-04-2018 07:52PM

RobertKK wrote: »

One can only vote on what is being proposed to replace it, something the Yes side try to avoid with talk of compassion, trust women, no mention of abortion on Yes posters, because they know if they were to put what the government plans to replace the 8th amendment with, it is bad for the Yes side.

I don't think people are thick, but if a person wants a clear conscience on the issue, and unrestricted abortion is an issue, then one can't really separate the issues, because currently removing the 8th amendment will lead to unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks, and longer in other cases.

If repeal wins, then we are all in the 'trust politicians' area and it is clear from some of the politicians on the yes side, who said they were pro-life and against the killing of the unborn, they are now advocating unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks. These are the kind of people one has to trust, when they enter the polling booth.

The 8th will be replaced with:
“Provision may be made by law for the regulation of termination of pregnancies.”

Zerbini Blewitt · 22-04-2018 07:59PM

RobertKK wrote: »

....
If this referendum fails we will have another referendum at some stage, it won't be 35 years times next time, it will be far far sooner, and if this is rejected this time, a more restricted abortion regime will be voted on
....

Yes in that event, I also think a subsequent repeal will be sooner. I don’t think it’ll be more restrictive though, because-

Even more women & girls will have been humiliated, sadistically degraded, maimed, butchered, mutilated & killed by the 8th - by that time.

All their families, friends, neighbours & the wider community will be outraged by this (like Savita & all the other actual victims of the 8th up to now); adding to an even stronger end-this-lunacy-now feeling.

So I think it’s more likely that Ireland may actually end up with THE least restrictive regulations in Europe if not the world.

Funny how people see things differently, eh Rob?

RobertKK · 22-04-2018 07:59PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

You were mod warned for un-factual statements earlier in the thread regarding the doctors in the miss p case using her as a stunt, but so far the poster you quoted hasn't been. What lies have they and other repeal posters wrote on here in your opinion, with evidence if available?

I was not mod warned for un-factual statement, and the word is nonfactual.

January · 22-04-2018 08:03PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Stop making up I am telling lies please.

Yes people tell lies but it is ok, if one doesn't agree it is "lies".

Read what is proposed, it is not lies what I post. It is lies to make out one doesn't know what is proposed by the government.

I'm not making up that you are telling lies, you are most definitely spreading lies and misinformation all over this thread.

I've read what is proposed, and it is just that, a proposal. It is lies to make out that if the 8th is repealed these proposals will come into legislation when the government have to vote on it.

gctest50 · 22-04-2018 08:04PM

RobertKK wrote: »

I was not mod warned for un-factual statement, and the word is nonfactual.

Thank you for educating us all

Lies

would do as well - bit clearer

Any you'll never be pregnant - so you'll never be in a position to go for a termination

Funny that isn't ? the most squawky NO ones are sometimes men

RobertKK · 22-04-2018 08:04PM

Zerbini Blewitt wrote: »

Yes in that event, I also think a subsequent repeal will be sooner. I don’t think it’ll be more restrictive though, because-

Even more women & girls will have been humiliated, sadistically degraded, maimed, butchered, mutilated & killed by the 8th - by that time.

All their families, friends, neighbours & the wider community will be outraged by this (like Savita & all the other actual victims of the 8th up to now); adding to the even stronger end-this-lunacy-now feeling.

So I think it’s more likely that Ireland may actually end up with THE least restrictive regulations in the Europe if not the world.

Funny how people see things differently, eh Rob?

But if repeal sides fail, it will show the establishment which is behind repeal got it very wrong, and the people the politicians were listening to are out of touch with the Irish people, and any subsequent referendum will be for a far more restrictive regime.

22-04-2018 08:05PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Proposed legislation is based on the Dail committee which recommended 12 weeks unrestricted and longer in other cases.

Yes. Proposed.
Nothing in writing.
No Bill yet.

RobertKK · 22-04-2018 08:07PM

January wrote: »

I'm not making up that you are telling lies, you are most definitely spreading lies and misinformation all over this thread.

I've read what is proposed, and it is just that, a proposal. It is lies to make out that if the 8th is repealed these proposals will come into legislation when the government have to vote on it.

ok then what do you believe will be introduced as abortion law?
Don't know is not an answer given we know what is proposed.

22-04-2018 08:08PM

Dole Scrounging Vegan Crossfitter wrote: »

Mod: RobertKK, you spent a long time speculating on the Miss P case but presenting it as fact despite all evidence pointing to the contrary. It was both disgusting and insulting. Remember that Ireland is a small place where both friends and family of the deceased can easily see what you have posted.

It was not a stunt. This is not opinion. This is a fact. Drop that argument now or don't post in this thread again.

Really, reads like a mod warning for un-factual statements to me

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unfact

gctest50 · 22-04-2018 08:09PM

RobertKK wrote: »

........

, and any subsequent referendum will be for a far more restrictive regime.

Show proof of this ?

If you think you can see into the future ( or the martians told you ) - i can haz lotto numbers ?

The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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