The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

January

RobertKK wrote: »

ok then what do you believe will be introduced as abortion law?
Don't know is not an answer given we know what is proposed.

Don't know is a very valid answer considering the bill hasn't even been written yet.

Given what is proposed, I hope that everything in it is passed into legislation and after the 8th is repealed I will continue, along with all of our current pro-choice groups, to campaign for that to happen.

RobertKK

DubInMeath wrote: »

Really, reads like a mod warning for un-factual statements to me

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unfact

I am not allowed discuss that, doesn't mean I changed my opinion because the mod gave his opinion, and I have not posted on it as the mod requested.

January

RobertKK wrote: »

I am not allowed discuss that, doesn't mean I changed my opinion because the mod gave his opinion, and I have not posted on it as the mod requested.

That was not mod opinion, you were being derogatory and insulting towards Ms. P and her family and medical team stating it was a publicity stunt. You should be ashamed of yourself.

RobertKK

January wrote: »

That was not mod opinion, you were being derogatory and insulting towards Ms. P and her family and medical team stating it was a publicity stunt. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I can't discuss as the mod requested.

But can in private so you can stop your accusations I should be ashamed because it is easier for some people to bring up old stuff that mods asked not to be discussed rather than what we were currently disgusting.
I know some want to get me banned from this thread by bringing that up.
That is what is shameful.

gctest50

RobertKK wrote: »

I am not allowed discuss that, doesn't mean I changed my opinion because the mod gave his opinion, and I have not posted on it as the mod requested.

Didn't stop your post just after it :

RobertKK wrote: »

I was only replying to replies. Plus I had finished posting in this thread last night so I had no intention of replying when one only gets called names and told they don’t care a relative lives or died.
So if I get a thread ban for replying, I have already a self imposed ban and I just want to use this reply to let others know that, some were replying last night after they knew I had stopped replying, a couple tried to bait me into replying via name calling/putdowns then but they weren’t worth it and the hassle one gets isn’t worth it.

More

Lies

RobertKK

gctest50 wrote: »

Didn't stop your post just after it :

I did take a break, you have gotten very personal in this thread as you would rather discuss me, so the discussion can move on from my other posts this evening.

gctest50

You are posting lies like they are 100% fact


For example - how do you know this :

RobertKK wrote: »

........

, and any subsequent referendum will be for a far more restrictive regime.

?

RobertKK

gctest50 wrote: »

You are posting lies like they are 100% fact


How do you know this for example :



?

Maybe you should learn the difference between opinion and fact.

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

I can't discuss as the mod requested.

But can in private so you can stop your accusations I should be ashamed because it is easier for some people to bring up old stuff that mods asked not to be discussed rather than what we were currently disgusting.
I know some want to get me banned from this thread by bringing that up.
That is what is shameful.

What we are discussing is what your posting tonight. You are posting un-factual scaremongering statements and that would be called on regardless of who posted it and should be considered shameful.

_Dara_

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Dara, not according to any poll I've seen. They all put Repeal firmly in front. I think Ireland has come of age and wants this backward amendment gone. It hurts too many people. I'm not complacent or naive, I genuinely think the pro choice side will win well. I think a lot of people say don't know because they would like to keep their decision private, especially if its in a small rural area, it doesn't necessarily mean that its a No. Anyway, you are all being remarkably restrained with all the "on the fence but No really" posters. Well done

Polls have been wrong. This is an issue where I can easily envisage people either demurring completely when asked (when they actually do know how they are going to vote) or saying that they are going to vote opposite to how they are actually going to vote. It’s certainly a more contentious issue than the MarRef. There’s no room for complacency at all especially as that can sometimes breed smugness which, let’s face it, gets people’s backs up. We need to work on the assumption that it will be a close race as that will give the extra drive to capture the minds of the true undecideds.

jluv

RobertKK wrote: »

One can only vote on what is being proposed to replace it, something the Yes side try to avoid with talk of compassion, trust women, no mention of abortion on Yes posters, because they know if they were to put what the government plans to replace the 8th amendment with, it is bad for the Yes side.

I don't think people are thick, but if a person wants a clear conscience on the issue, and unrestricted abortion is an issue, then one can't really separate the issues, because currently removing the 8th amendment will lead to unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks, and longer in other cases.

If repeal wins, then we are all in the 'trust politicians' area and it is clear from some of the politicians on the yes side, who said they were pro-life and against the killing of the unborn, they are now advocating unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks. These are the kind of people one has to trust, when they enter the polling booth.

Robert..thats where I was in my head for a while..if I vote to repeal I'm ok'ing unrestricted abortion. But I'm not being asked to ok unresticted abortion.I'm being asked do i agree with the 8th amendment being in the constitution. The answer to that is no. If and when the government legislate to introduce unrestricted abortion then I'm going to have to fight that (and being honest I don't know how or where or when)
If the unrestricted abortion were not on the table how would you feel regarding the 8th

RobertKK

DubInMeath wrote: »

What we are discussing is what your posting tonight. You are posting un-factual scaremongering statements and that is shameful.

Miss P, really????

Are you claiming I broke a mod ruling? As I didn't bring that up.

gctest50

RobertKK wrote: »

Maybe you should learn the difference between opinion and fact.

Your posts are either taking the p!s or you think everyone is thick

This is a poor attempt at manipulation :

RobertKK wrote: »

........

, and any subsequent referendum will be for a far more restrictive regime.

Unfactual, scaremongering lies


.

January

RobertKK wrote: »

I can't discuss as the mod requested.

But can in private so you can stop your accusations I should be ashamed because it is easier for some people to bring up old stuff that mods asked not to be discussed rather than what we were currently disgusting.
I know some want to get me banned from this thread by bringing that up.
That is what is shameful.

It's not an accusation to say you should be ashamed. I don't want to get anyone banned from any thread by the way and have never tried to get anyone banned from this thread.

I am debating with you in a polite manner so nothing shameful here.

NuMarvel

RobertKK wrote: »

But if repeal sides fail, it will show the establishment which is behind repeal got it very wrong, and the people the politicians were listening to are out of touch with the Irish people, and any subsequent referendum will be for a far more restrictive regime.

This is up there with believing that voting Yes in the Seanad referendum will lead to reform of the Seanad. Five year's later, the most that's happened is that a committee will be formed to consider a report and who knows when any recommendations will be implemented, if ever.

Voting No is going to kick the issue back down the agenda. Barring another horrific case, that's resulted in a girl or a woman being subjected to cruel or degrading treatment, no government will touch this for at least the next five years. And whenever they look at it again, they'll come to the same conclusion they did this time; that trying to put grounds for abortion into the constitution is a recipe for disaster.

And in the meantime, thousands of women and girls will travel or import pills, and people like you will go on believing that there's no abortion in Ireland, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

gctest50

RobertKK wrote: »

DubInMeath wrote: »

What we are discussing is what your posting tonight. You are posting un-factual scaremongering statements and that would be called on regardless of who posted it and should be considered shameful.

Miss P, really????

Are you claiming I broke a mod ruling? As I didn't bring that up.

You know exactly what DubInMeath is saying

You are now mentioning Miss P. in your post hopibg someone "new" will take you up on it and you'll be all like " thread-ban oh poor me "


Pulling the parachute cord and playing the victim

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

Miss P, really????

Are you claiming I broke a mod ruling? As I didn't bring that up.

You said you haven't posted lies and that the repeal side are.
I simply pointed out that the mod warning that you received and you denied receiving in relation to your un-factual statements regarding the miss p case as evidence that this might not be considered a fully factual statement, while also asking who from the repeal side has posted lies in your opinion with evidence in relation to repealing the 8th, which I'm still waiting on.

ForestFire

January wrote: »

Stop with the lies Robert, you've been called out so many times on it. If the 8th is repealed the 12 week legislation is not a guarantee. It could be shot down at the first hurdle by members of the Dail, you and I both know it you just love to scaremonger.

You might not realise, but this is more scary than what Robert has said.

There was plenty of posters telling me, when I had concerns about it going beyond 12 weeks that it would not... They said...

-It will be 12 weeks
-Did you read the citizens assemble report and recommendations
-politicians wouldn't risk going against this.
-It needs to be unrestricted due to rape cases
-It can't be less than 12 weeks due to pregnancy confirmation and appointments etc.
-it it the only proposal made and currently the only plan to replace the 8th.

So if you are saying we don't know, then it could be lower or higher than 12 weeks?

I don't agree with this and I am asumming it will be 12 weeks. At the moment the proposal is 12 weeks and I would hope that before the referendum this will be clarified and clear and only a matter of formality to pass.

If this is not clear and defined before the referendum, do you not think it could cause issues for voters?

RobertKK

gctest50 wrote: »

You know exactly what DubInMeath is saying

You are now mentioning Miss P. in your post hopibg someone "new" will take you up on it and you'll be all like " thread-ban oh poor me "


Pulling the parachute cord and playing the victim

Who brought Miss P up?

Who took this thread off what was being discussed because they would rather throw it off on a different route?

People tried to get me banned from this thread tonight.

crustybla

I don't know how you guys do it, those of you here every day debating for repeal. Ye have some patience. I took part in a debate on facebook today and I had to come out of it, my head was melted! The blatant lies and bile spewed by some was staggering. Most of them were women. There were far more agreeing with me though, and most of them were men.

Iamwhoiam and Jluv made very good points. All a lot of people (on both sides but one in particular) seem to see is repeal=abortion in all its forms. If people actually educated themselves on the 8th, would they see things differently?

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

Who brought Miss P up?

Who took this thread off what was being discussed because they would rather throw it off on a different route?

People tried to get me banned from this thread tonight.

I'm not trying to get you banned, I'm simply pointing out where your not telling the truth about what you are and have posted.

RobertKK

DubInMeath wrote: »

You said you haven't posted lies and that the repeal side are.
I simply pointed out that the mod warning that you received and you denied receiving in relation to your un-factual statements regarding the miss p case as evidence that this might not be considered a fully factual statement, while also asking who from the repeal side has posted lies in your opinion with evidence in relation to repealing the 8th, which I'm still waiting on.

I post my opinions, some people would rather call opinions lies when they aren't lies. People went into denial about the 12 weeks as if there was no details on what is planned to replace the 8th in law.

The mod didn't say I lied, the mod gave their opinion, which is a difference. I had people who PMed me in private and who take no part in this thread in any form who were of similar opinion.
There are people who won't post in this thread because they see the crap one gets if they aren't on the repeal side.

RobertKK

DubInMeath wrote: »

I'm not trying to get you banned, I'm simply pointing out where your not telling the truth about what you are and have posted.

Why would anyone bring up something I can't discuss, I had people tell me I should be this and that about it tonight, I can't respond, but it hasn't stopped people bringing it up again and again tonight.

I am giving my opinion, other people are being nasty as there is no reason to bring up something I can't discuss unless someone wants me to discuss it as accusations are made.

AnneFrank

RobertKK wrote: »

I did take a break, you have gotten very personal in this thread as you would rather discuss me, so the discussion can move on from my other posts this evening.

This has happened repeatedly, and all from the repeal side, you see if you don't agree with them 100% you are an imbecile who needs to be educated, if they can't turn you, they get personal, look at the stupid attack on splinter, it will only hurt their agenda when undecided read it.Read up on the issue and vote with your conscience is my advice, whatever way you wish to vote.

RobertKK

crustybla wrote: »

I don't know how you guys do it, those of you here every day debating for repeal. Ye have some patience. I took part in a debate on facebook today and I had to come out of it, my head was melted! The blatant lies and bile spewed by some was staggering. Most of them were women. There were far more agreeing with me though, and most of them were men.

Iamwhoiam and Jluv made very good points. All a lot of people (on both sides but one in particular) seem to see is repeal=abortion in all its forms. If people actually educated themselves on the 8th, would they see things differently?

Newstalk had a poll done about a year ago I think it was. More men than women supported repeal.

Ken.

Poll results

scamalert

this has turned into a joke by now, ppl that want to abort for one or another reason will do so by taking mere few hour trip to uk, prob would take shorter then here anyway, and at the end this discussion is like one on legalizing weed you have two sides spitting at each other but government will move on and put their own decision in to save their asses, which will actually serve them well since more control on masses seem what most people want nowadays anyway.

Hammer Archer

AnneFrank wrote: »

if they can't turn you, they get personal

Like how you got personal with my experience of a miscarriage that my partner suffered? Strange how you constantly ignore that
Hypocrisy, thy name is AnneFrank.

amdublin

AnneFrank wrote: »

This has happened repeatedly, and all from the repeal side, you see if you don't agree with them 100% you are an imbecile who needs to be educated, if they can't turn you, they get personal, look at the stupid attack on splinter, it will only hurt their agenda when undecided read it.Read up on the issue and vote with your conscience is my advice, whatever way you wish to vote.

I could be wrong but I believe a mod gave you some guidelines about reporting posts and also how modding works in relation to reported posts.

Playing the victim doesn't really wash imo. There are avenues you can take for posts to be reviewed if you feel there has been a "stupid attack".

Separately I wonder have you had a chance to look at the personal stories from women directly affected and impacted by the 8th amendment on the In Her Shoes page on facebook. Its eye opening and heart breaking.

I believe repealing the 8th amendment is the compassionate thing to do. Let's care for those in crisis. The 8th amendment hurts women.

Ken.

Mod- The new poll is up. Results for old one are saved above for posterity. Now its a straight yes or no. There will be no other options added.