The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

Ave Sodalis · 09-04-2018 05:35PM

I heard on the radio that posters put up on electricity poles (from either side) will be taken down, and it may interrupt electricity supplies to do so. Just something to bear in mind if you are putting up posters.

Annasopra · 09-04-2018 05:41PM

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

I heard on the radio that posters put up on electricity poles (from either side) will be taken down, and it may interrupt electricity supplies to do so. Just something to bear in mind if you are putting up posters.

I think Yes HQ are possibly paying a company and all the parties (as far as I know SF, PBP, Solidarity, Soc Dems, Labour will all have posters and FF and FG wont but I might be wrong) will do whatever they normally do

NuMarvel · 09-04-2018 06:12PM

Imhof Tank wrote: »

I see the repeal side denying today that they are behind in the "Poster War"

Spent the past weekend travelling around Clare/ South Galway and it is wall to wall No posters down there.

I was in England a week before the Brexit vote, West Midlands area well away from the London bubble, there were home made Leave banners and placards all over the roadsides. It seemed like very clear majority support for leave although you never got that sense from the mainstream media. Very similar IMO to how its looking now on the 8th vote.

The No side in the marriage equality referendum had their posters up early too, and it didn't really prove useful for them. In fact, I think the YesEquality group didn't get their posters up until about 3/4 weeks before the referendum (political parties might have had their up earlier).

Posters are certainly a useful tool to reinforce campaign messages, but they're not how referendums are won.

BabysCoffee · 09-04-2018 06:42PM

"Sometimes a private matter needs public support"

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/together-for-yes-campaign-says-it-is-on-course-to-raise-500-000-1.3455596

I like this slogan. Tomorrow I will make a further donation to the campaign so more posters can be bought

posturingpat · 09-04-2018 06:43PM

garbo speaks wrote: »

Are you saying our mainstream liberal Irish media are actually biased in favour of repeal? Shock horror!

Surely not :eek:

McTigs · 09-04-2018 07:06PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The guards told you to break the law?

i told them of the poster, they appeared to be aware of it and told me I was free to take it down.

I think the poster itself is breaking a law.... I’ll look up which one and come back

Sofiztikated · 09-04-2018 07:10PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The guards told you to break the law?

Wouldn't surprise me, noone ever seems to know it's an offense.

Edward M · 09-04-2018 07:29PM

Electric Ireland advises against putting up or taking down posters on their poles, its dangerous and its prohibited.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/putting-posters-on-electricity-poles-strictly-prohibited-says-esb-1.3453002?mode=amp

Timberrrrrrrr · 09-04-2018 07:42PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

If the vote is as tight as divorce and they're is a visible "home to vote" campaign, I would expect many legal challenges to the outcome with a real risk of it being a success. I know of people that came back for SSM that were not eligible, people who emigrated several years before the vote and who have not returned.

Irish citizens should not return to vote, the vast majority of citizens abroad are not eligible and furthermore the issue doesn't concern them. They should campaign for or against abortion in the countries they are resident in.

Money from overseas should not be allowed to be used in the campaigns either. Foreign meddling damages democracy.

Postering has been sporadic, I would have expected every pole to be covered already? Or are campaigns not meant to poster until one month out?

I have 2 daughters living in Ireland (26 & 25) and I will and returning to vote, you say it doesn't concern me? I would storm the gates of hell for those girls so returning to vote to ensure they are not forced to carry a child they may not want is the least I can do.

January · 09-04-2018 08:30PM

Delighted to see the maser repeal heart reinstated at the project arts centre in temple bar. It's become an iconic logo in the campaign.

Trasna1 · 09-04-2018 08:37PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I have 2 daughters living in Ireland (26 & 25) and I will and returning to vote, you say it doesn't concern me? I would storm the gates of hell for those girls so returning to vote to ensure they are not forced to carry a child they may not want is the least I can do.

Have you been out of the country (non-resident) for more than 18months? Or if not, do you intend to come back within 18 months of first becoming non resident? If the answer is no, then you have no business returning to vote.

amdublin · 09-04-2018 08:40PM

Delighted to see a social group I am part of on Facebook with 11k members reiterare their pro choice stance today.

They first announced they were pro choice in August 2017.

Posted today
"Hi all, just wanted to address some of the recent posts/reports that have been posted in the group. GirlCrew is a pro-choice organisation. We've actively campaigned to have the 8th removed, have created blog series, live videos, social posts on the issues and will continue to do so. There was a poll quite some time ago about allowing discussions beyond social things and the group voted to allow them. As the upcoming referendum is something that will impact us all we won't be removing posts on the issue unless we feel they breach our guidelines. Our principle guidelines is one of respect and I would stress this again to everyone, regardless of where you stand on the issue. We currently don't have the resources to monitor this group 24/7 so it may take a little bit of time before your report is reviewed as we do need sleep too

But be assured, we do check every report made. To that end some posts/members may be removed as per our guidelines - this will be decided on a case by case basis as it always has been. Hope this clarifies things!

"

amdublin · 09-04-2018 08:41PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

Have you been out of the country (non-resident) for more than 18months? Or if not, do you intend to come back within 18 months of first becoming non resident? If the answer is no, then you have no business returning to vote.

I think we can be confident that yes this poster intends coming back within 18 months

Trasna1 · 09-04-2018 08:43PM

amdublin wrote: »

I think we can be confident that yes this poster intends coming back within 18 months

To become resident again? That is unclear. In fact the poster has implied that they intend to travel only for the vote.

Timberrrrrrrr · 09-04-2018 08:44PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

Have you been out of the country (non-resident) for more than 18months? Or if not, do you intend to come back within 18 months of first becoming non resident? If the answer is no, then you have no business returning to vote.

Out the country over 18 months and no intention to return other than holidays and to help repeal the 8th.

Im making it my business and couldn't give a tiny shiney sh/te who it bothers.

_Dara_ · 09-04-2018 08:47PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

Have you been out of the country (non-resident) for more than 18months? Or if not, do you intend to come back within 18 months of first becoming non resident? If the answer is no, then you have no business returning to vote.

But he can so he will. This can't really be policed. Unless you have any suggestions? Other than 'computer says no'.

Trasna1 · 09-04-2018 08:53PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Out the country over 18 months and no intention to return other than holidays and to help repeal the 8th.

Im making it my business and couldn't give a tiny shiney sh/te who it bothers.

Well should you return and vote you will be committing voter fraud.

I don't care what side you are for or against. This is an issue for resident Irish citizens to resolve, those that have to live with the consequences of their vote.

What if the margin either way is narrow like divorce? If home to vote existed then there is more than a strong possibility that the vote would have been ruled illegitimate. Irish citizens abroad can support from the sidelines if they wish, but that's where they should stay.

_Dara_ · 09-04-2018 08:56PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

Well should you return and vote you will be committing voter fraud.

I don't care what side you are for or against. This is an issue for resident Irish citizens to resolve, those that have to live with the consequences of their vote.

What if the margin either way is narrow like divorce? If home to vote existed then there is more than a strong possibility that the vote would have been ruled illegitimate. Irish citizens abroad can support from the sidelines if they wish, but that's where they should stay.

This isn't one-sided though. It's likely to be a close campaign and those coming from abroad will probably split in a similar way.

You don't think that people who wanted to vote no in the MarRef were inspired by the 'Come home to vote' campaign? And more people seem to feel more strongly about this issue on both sides.

reubenreuben · 09-04-2018 08:57PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

Well should you return and vote you will be committing voter fraud.

I don't care what side you are for or against. This is an issue for resident Irish citizens to resolve, those that have to live with the consequences of their vote.

What if the margin either way is narrow like divorce? If home to vote existed then there is more than a strong possibility that the vote would have been ruled illegitimate. Irish citizens abroad can support from the sidelines if they wish, but that's where they should stay.

What about the half a million residents who are not citizens who have to live with the consequences of the vote. that they have no power over?

Timberrrrrrrr · 09-04-2018 08:59PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

Well should you return and vote you will be committing voter fraud.

Worth it to protect my daughter's.

I don't care what side you are for or against. This is an issue for resident Irish citizens to resolve, those that have to live with the consequences of their vote.

I lived there for 28 years, worked, paid taxes and raised a family so wether you agree or not I'm entitled to return to vote.

What if the margin either way is narrow like divorce? If home to vote existed then there is more than a strong possibility that the vote would have been ruled illegitimate. Irish citizens abroad can support from the sidelines if they wish, but that's where they should stay.

We're coming back to vote and there isn't a thing you or anyone can do about it.

Trasna1 · 09-04-2018 09:05PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

This isn't one-sided though. It's likely to be a close campaign and those coming from abroad will probably split in a similar way.

You don't think that people who wanted to vote no in the MarRef were inspired by the 'Come home to vote' campaign? And more people seem to feel more strongly about this issue on both sides.

Home to vote for marriage equality was almost entirely for the yes vote, as I witnessed as a resident who was landing in Dublin airport the day before the vote. So let's not distort what actually happened.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, yes or no if you're not eligible you shouldn't vote. It's that simple. Keep our of it and let resident Irish citizens decide what kind of country they live in.

Trasna1 · 09-04-2018 09:07PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Worth it to protect my daughter's.

I lived there for 28 years, worked, paid taxes and raised a family so wether you agree or not I'm entitled to return to vote.

We're coming back to vote and there isn't a thing you or anyone can do about it.

There isn't a thing I can do about it, true.

You are entitled to return, but you are not entitled to vote.

Annasopra · 09-04-2018 09:07PM

This is fascinating. They have a Polish Outreach Team and a full time UK employee.

And here they are bossing Irish people not to come home :-/ While paying for someone to encourage their voters to come here

https://irishelectionliterature.com/2018/04/09/family-life-8th-amendment-letter/

_Dara_ · 09-04-2018 09:08PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

Home to vote for marriage equality was almost entirely for the yes vote, as I witnessed as a resident who was landing in Dublin airport the day before the vote. So let's not distort what actually happened.

Yes, the campaign was 'come home to vote yes'. BUT the issue with having a campaign along these lines is that it also reminds people who want to vote the opposite way that they can probably come home to vote too.

Being in Dublin Airport on the day gives you no insight into how many people came back and voted no.

And this issue is much more divisive than the MarRef. Feelings run much higher on both sides. So the coming home to vote contingent will likely be split fairly evenly. I don't see it being a major determinant in the outcome.

Trasna1 · 09-04-2018 09:16PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

Yes, the campaign was 'come home to vote yes'. BUT the issue with having a campaign along these lines is that it also reminds people who want to vote the opposite way that they can probably come home to vote too.

Being in Dublin Airport on the day gives you no insight into how many people came back and voted no.

And this issue is much more divisive than the MarRef. Feelings run much higher on both sides. So the coming home to vote contingent will likely be split fairly evenly. I don't see it being a major determinant in the outcome.

You have no evidence to back your contention that illegal voting will be evenly split and therefore not matter. But it does matter, any form of fraud is wrong even if the perpetrators of the fraud are on your side.

I can't believe I have to argue the case for people not to commit voter fraud.

Timberrrrrrrr · 09-04-2018 09:21PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

There isn't a thing I can do about it, true.

You are entitled to return, but you are not entitled to vote.

And yet I will

_Dara_ · 09-04-2018 09:26PM

Trasna1 wrote: »

You have no evidence to back your contention that illegal voting will be evenly split and therefore not matter.

And you have no evidence that it won't be evenly split.

You know there was a campaign at the last referendum. But that's it. How did the people who came back into the country for the last referendum vote? Was it 100% yes? Or was it 62% Yes/38% No? I don't know. Do you?

It was pretty obvious that I was speculating in my post. Why would I have evidence?

Trasna1 wrote: »

I can't believe I have to argue the case for people not to commit voter fraud.

I said earlier that the loophole should be closed. I'm not advocating for a 'Come Home To Vote' campaign. I didn't support if for the MarRef either. But the loophole exists. People will exploit it. That's a reality. There is no sense in fretting about it OR pontificating about it.

Zubeneschamali · 09-04-2018 09:26PM

Imhof Tank wrote: »

I was in England a week before the Brexit vote, West Midlands area well away from the London bubble, there were home made Leave banners and placards all over the roadsides. It seemed like very clear majority support for leave

So pretty much the opposite of the big-money professional poster bombing the No crew can evidently afford, wherever they found the money [cough]america [cough]

Annasopra · 09-04-2018 09:31PM

This new fact based website by Fiona De Londras and Mairead Enright addresses a number of points in this thread raised by many such as Bertie in Exile

https://aboutthe8th.com/

Trasna1 · 09-04-2018 09:39PM

_Dara_ wrote: »

And you have no evidence that it won't be evenly split. You know there was a campaign at the last referendum. But that's it. How did the people who came back into the country for the last referendum vote? Was it 100% yes? Or was it 62% Yes/38% No? I don't know. Do you?

It was pretty obvious that I was speculating in my post. Why would I have evidence?

I said earlier that the loophole should be closed. I'm not advocating for a 'Come Home To Vote' campaign. I didn't support if for the MarRef either. But the loophole exists. People will exploit it. That's a reality. There is no sense in fretting about it OR pontificating about it.

It doesn't matter what way those that came home to vote illegally voted. The problem is they behaved illegally. That said it was fairly obvious that the home to vote was heavily skewed to yes, and anyone that argues against that was blind to what was going on at the airports in the days before the referendum. It bothered me at that time too even though these people were on my side of the debate.

The problem isn't e what way these people will vote, but that they are voting at all when they are not eligible. In a close contest, which this is likely to be and where the winner is 50%+1 behaviors that call into question the integrity of the vote should be condemned.

If we have people voting illegally and the vote is as close as divorce (9000), with widespread and well publicised voter fraud in addition to a side that won't take defeat lying down, we would be looking at potentially the vote bring declared invalid.

The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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