The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

_Dara_

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

People who are not legally eligible to vote should not vote. I can certainly agree with you on that much. If a result got over turned because of voter fraud then that would be blood on the hands of anyone who committed that fraud.

Anyone who is eligible should absolutely return to vote however, so you have simply phrased this badly here. The mediation point should be their eligibility, not their physical location. Irish citizens can and should of course return to vote.

Eligibility is bound up in both citizenship and residency requirements. I think many people abroad would not know if they are still ordinarily residence in Ireland. If they live elsewhere, probably not. Ordinary residence is quickly lost.

But those people living abroad who are not ordinarily resident could still be on the register of whatever polling station they last voted in. I'll be voting in the polling station in my old primary school as I was living at home the last time I voted in 2011 as I'm still on the register there. (Was seriously ill during the MarRef) I've been living in Ireland the whole time so that's fine. But someone could similarly find themselves on a register but have lived out of the country for five years. They could still come home to vote but it would be fraud as they won't have ordinary residence which has a very strict definition. That's a problem.

JDD wrote: »

That constitutional case taken by the NI crowd doesn't have a leg to stand on. It's not enough to be a citizen to get a right to vote. The constitution clearly states that you must be a citizen AND be resident in one of the constituencies as set out under legislation. So unless the NI citizens are going to take a case saying that the legislation that sets out the voting districts is unconstitutional then I think they're on a hiding to nowhere. The only people that come out as winners from that case is the instructing law firm.

My thoughts too. Of course she's being encouraged. Ching ching!

NuMarvel

amdublin wrote: »

Can you help? (Aka...want to see more posters for prochoice?)

Crowd funding has gone live. Wow, achieved goal of €100k in just 4 hours. Are going to keep going to try get to €150k

Can you support?
https://togetherforyes.causevox.com/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=cf1

At this rate they'll have money for more posters than poles!

Also, saw my first TogetherForYes poster on the way to work today. It looks good.

nozzferrahhtoo

_Dara_ wrote: »

Eligibility is bound up in both citizenship and residency requirements. I think many people abroad would not know if they are still ordinarily residence in Ireland.

Indeed. A user earlier asked me how did we know who was eligible or not during the SSM project we ran for the Irish Voters in the UK

And one of the many answers to that question is: They asked us. And we worked out with them if they were or not. Showed them how to check the register and so forth. It was not that they claimed to be eligible to vote and we took their word for it. It is they came to us to ask us to help them find out if they were.

bertieinexile

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

This new fact based website by Fiona De Londras and Mairead Enright addresses a number of points in this thread raised by many such as Bertie in Exile

https://aboutthe8th.com/

If you look at fiona and mairead's website you will see that their answer to thee glitz's question of whether abortion would be available on "spurious mental health grounds" up to 24 weeks - the answer that impressed Joeytheparrot so much - is simply to say that the wording of Harris's proposed legislation concerning mental health grounds is different than in england.

This is exactly the same point made here by PhoenixParker but PhoenixParker made some effort to tease out the implications of that difference in wording.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106662540&postcount=3490

My reply to that, does it really need to be repeated, was
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106666305&postcount=3541

Any discussion we might have about the legal distinction between between "injury" and ""serious harm" is completely irrelevant from a practical point of view.
Why?
Because it will be left up to Marie Stopes clinics to worry about that difference.
And based on how they operate in england it is safe to say they don't care.

I don't remember any attempt to directly counter that, just a claim that Marie Stopes mightn't want to come here and finally

Joeytheparrot wrote:

Yeah ok they might set up here...

Now when thee glitz asks

The Government’s proposal is that abortion will be available up to viability of the foetus where two doctors certify that there is a risk to the life of the pregnant woman. If all pregnancies can be deemed to be risking the life of the woman, this suggests that there would be practically no restrictions.

numarvels answer is that what in practice would amount to abortion on demand/request up to viability is OK by him/her

If a woman believes her pregnancy is a risk to her life, and two appropriately qualified doctors agree and say an abortion will mitigate or eliminate that risk, then I am happy to trust that woman and her doctors.

.

In a nutshell

PhoenixParker wrote:

But there’s one very important point that you’re missing:
Irish Law is not U.K. Law.
That is all.

me wrote:

It will be left up to Marie Stopes clinics to worry about that difference.
And based on how they operate in england it is safe to say they don't care.

Which of those two is going to matter?

You can only vote yes if you are comfortable with abortion on demand/request up to 24 weeks.

dudara

amdublin wrote: »

Can you help? (Aka...want to see more posters for prochoice?)

Crowd funding has gone live. Wow, achieved goal of €100k in just 4 hours. Are going to keep going to try get to €150k

Can you support?
https://togetherforyes.causevox.com/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=cf1

Just put €50 in the pot. This is a very important campaign.

amdublin

dudara wrote: »

Just put €50 in the pot. This is a very important campaign.

I just put €20. I am donating separately 8 for 8 for the 8th (8 euro per month for 8 months)

I swear it's just jumped up €10k on my lunch break alone. We can do this!

Trust women!
Repeal the 8th

ELM327

dudara wrote: »

Just put €50 in the pot. This is a very important campaign.

Just donated aswell.
Have to try to defeat the dirty dollars in the no camp from the US!

One of the most important issues of our time, a no vote will push us back to the dark days of baby killing catholic Ireland (oh the irony). When Amnesty International are telling you your constitution is barbaric you know they are right and it needs to change.

baylah17

bertieinexile wrote: »

You can only vote yes if you are comfortable with abortion on demand/request up to 24 weeks.

You can only vote NO is you believe that women cannot be trusted to know whats best for themselves and/or you believe that women lack the mental or emotional capacity to make value judgements!

ohnonotgmail

bertieinexile wrote: »

If you look at fiona and mairead's website you will see that their answer to thee glitz's question of whether abortion would be available on "spurious mental health grounds" up to 24 weeks - the answer that impressed Joeytheparrot so much - is simply to say that the wording of Harris's proposed legislation concerning mental health grounds is different than in england.

This is exactly the same point made here by PhoenixParker but PhoenixParker made some effort to tease out the implications of that difference in wording.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106662540&postcount=3490

My reply to that, does it really need to be repeated, was
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106666305&postcount=3541
I don't remember any attempt to directly counter that, just a claim that Marie Stopes mightn't want to come here and finally



Now when thee glitz asks
numarvels answer is that what in practice would amount to abortion on demand/request up to viability is OK by him/her
.

In a nutshell


Which of those two is going to matter?

You can only vote yes if you are comfortable with abortion on demand/request up to 24 weeks.

you're just repeating yourself and convincing nobody.

bertieinexile

Zubeneschamali has made the following point

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

... we are dealing here with the Irish Medical establishment, who could, ever since the X case judgement in 1992, have performed abortions here by falsely claiming the mothers life was at risk.

For some reason, they never did that, yet Bertie thinks they will falsely claim there is a threat of serious harm to flighty-headed young wans who feel like an abortion during their lunchbreak at 24 weeks for no reason at all.

It is nonsense.

I wasn't sure if it was a serious question but (s)he has repeated it twice more so I take it it must be.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106666753&postcount=3551

they should have set up shop in Ireland in 1992, since the 8th made abortion legal here when the woman's life is in danger. According to yourself, these people have no problem lying about reasons for abortion, so why didn't they do as you suggest then?

Because you are talking out of your pants, that's why.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106681151&postcount=3697

We have heard endlessly from the prolifers about how the 8th did not kill Savita Hallapanavar [because if there is a threat to the life of the mother, abortion is already legal], and that the team just screwed up.

We did not see mass abortion across the Irish medical system as ghoulish doctors jumped at the chance to abort 30 week pregnancies by claiming a threat to the mothers life.

The difference, since it apparently needs to be said, is that a doctor signing medical certificates saying a woman is suffering from septicemia or has an ectopic pregnancy - when she clearly isn't or doesn't - is going to be struck off.
That really needed to be said?

But who is ever going to get struck off for signing a medical cert saying that in their opinion there would have been a threat of serious harm to a woman's mental health if her pregnancy had been allowed to continue?
Would it cost them a thought? Especially since they are convinced they are doing the right thing.
All the abortion clinics need is an opening.

You can only vote Yes if you are comfortable with abortion on demand/request up to 24 weeks.
(As it's becoming increasingly clear a number of people on this thread are.)

rainbow kirby

Just donated. Best I can do right now to help while living in London with two tiny kids!

BabysCoffee

€127,000 raised for Yes posters already!!!

What a phenomenal response :-)

ELM327

BabysCoffee wrote: »

€127,000 raised for Yes posters already!!!

What a phenomenal response :-)

It's gone up €10k since I made my donation a few minutes ago!

#trustourwomen
#trustourdoctors
#repealthe8th

BabysCoffee

It seems to be going up by 500 euro every minute or two!!

And once everyone comes home from work I'm sure the donations will pour in.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

hatrickpatrick

NuMarvel wrote: »

At this rate they'll have money for more posters than poles!

Also, saw my first TogetherForYes poster on the way to work today. It looks good.

They need more than posters, they need to start putting out some video ads to counter that omnipresent "as a doctor" BS. But as I said a few pages back, IMO they should do that in moderation. Nothing pisses people off more than ads which come up too often, which is already happening with that pro-life ad.

NuMarvel

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

They need more than posters, they need to start putting out some video ads to counter that omnipresent "as a doctor" BS. But as I said a few pages back, IMO they should do that in moderation. Nothing pisses people off more than ads which come up too often, which is already happening with that pro-life ad.

I think it's a given they'll do more than posters, and online ads will probably be just one of the avenues they use. But posters are a good way to generate coverage and to get attention. And I'd imagine they're going to have at least one more wave of posters before the campaign ends.

But they can't do anything if they don't have money, and realistically, they need that money sooner than later.

Yeah_Right

I'm not eligible to vote even though I've lived here for over a decade. Purely because I couldn't be arsed going through the process and paperwork of becoming a citizen. I can understand why citizens who aren't residents are coming back to vote because it is something that effects their families and their friends. I realise that it's illegal but I understand why they would do it.

The NI people going to court to get the right to vote in this referendum are as moronic as the people in the Republic protesting the verdict of a trial in Belfast.

Mr. CooL ICE

Just paid for 5 posters there myself

captbarnacles

BabysCoffee wrote: »

€127,000 raised for Yes posters already!!!

What a phenomenal response :-)

Incredible considering Bertie repeated his nonsense argument again! I thought that last repeat would be the clincher for most people.

Triceratops Ballet

150k raised!!

SusieBlue

Just donated. Got a bit emotional reading through the comments on the list of people who donated.
Thank you to everyone who is doing their bit, whether it be financially, canvassing, sharing on social media, or posting here.
Every little bit helps our cause. Feeling very positive and grateful to all who are supporting in whatever way they can.
Repeal the 8th!!!

amdublin

The goal has been raided to €250k. From a starting goal of just €50k this morning. People are wonderful

It's at €151k now. Well was 5 minutes ago. Sure it will probably be up by now already!

Click here to donate (or even just to see that total going up and up!!)

https://togetherforyes.causevox.com/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=cf1

Zubeneschamali

bertieinexile wrote: »

The difference, since it apparently needs to be said, is that a doctor signing medical certificates saying a woman is suffering from septicemia or has an ectopic pregnancy - when she clearly isn't or doesn't - is going to be struck off.

There was no requirement for any such thing from 1992 until POLDPA was passed - the only valid word of law on abortion was the 8th amendment itself.

So all a doctor (who was prepared to lie) had to do was say that in his opinion the woman was at risk of death by suicide, and according to you, they are happy to lie their heads off to provide abortion.

Yet that never happened. On the contrary, they were so afraid of stepping over the line that they let women who really were at risk and asked for terminations die instead.

Because you are talking utter nonsense.

Hammer Archer

Donated €50.
My daughter was born just under 3 months ago. While I hope that she will never require an abortion in her life, if she does need one for any reason, I can't imagine how angry I'd be if she was forced to travel abroad for one so that certain people can live in their make believe, fantasy Ireland that has no abortions.

garbo speaks

These people donating money for those unsightly referendum posters are deluded. Surely there are other more worthwhile causes to donate your money to (donate to the Irish Cancer Society, ISPCA, etc.), but no, people love to latch on to a timely fad. Does donating your money for these posters mean anything? No. It's just a way for the loony lefties to feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Triceratops Ballet

garbo speaks wrote: »

These people donating money for those unsightly referendum posters are deluded. Surely there are other more worthwhile causes to donate your money to (donate to the Irish Cancer Society, ISPCA, etc.), but no, people love to latch on to a timely fad. Does donating your money for these posters mean anything? No. It's just a way for the loony lefties to feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

yeah it's a bit of a fad alright they've only been campaigning against it for 35 years, god they're so trendy it's unbearable!

ohnonotgmail

garbo speaks wrote: »

These people donating money for those unsightly referendum posters are deluded. Surely there are other more worthwhile causes to donate your money to (donate to the Irish Cancer Society, ISPCA, etc.), but no, people love to latch on to a timely fad. Does donating your money for these posters mean anything? No. It's just a way for the loony lefties to feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

one of these days you might actually care about something.

B0jangles

garbo speaks wrote: »

These people donating money for those unsightly referendum posters are deluded. Surely there are other more worthwhile causes to donate your money to (donate to the Irish Cancer Society, ISPCA, etc.), but no, people love to latch on to a timely fad. Does donating your money for these posters mean anything? No. It's just a way for the loony lefties to feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Is trying to annoy people on boards your only hobby? You'd probably be a happier person if you got out and about sometimes and talked to people

amdublin

There's a referendum coming up. A key component of referendums are posters. For ages the pro repeal side have been moaning
"When are we getting some posters up
"Where are our posters"
"All I see are those terrible plc posters

Well today we put our money where our mouth is and by god will we see posters up soon!