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The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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  • #3302
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #3303
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    erica74 wrote: »
    What are the various reasons?

    Budgeting (leaflets, merchandise, online campaigns have to get spending prority early on in campaign), Lack of understanding of electoral law (mistakenly thinking the 30 day rule for elections applied to referenda), lack of money (national campaign simply has very little money)

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #3304
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    This bears repeating and emphasis.

    The 8th doesn't just affect those seeking abortion, it hangs as a dark cloud over every pregnant woman in Ireland and daily affects the health and wellbeing of women with wanted pregnancies.

    Savita didn't want an abortion, she wanted a baby. When she had a miscarriage, the 8th combined with medical incompetence resulted in her death. Without the 8th the way forward would have been 100% clear cut. It could happen to any woman.

    Every day the treatment and management of miscarriage is impeded by the 8th.

    Every day women's lives are put at risk by the 8th. There is no simple line a doctor or judge can draw "life at risk" to make life saving decisions. When they get it wrong, women die.

    Repealing the 8th is 100 times more important than any abortion legislation.

    More than this, the 8th impacts all aspects of maternity care in Ireland

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/irish-maternity-system-is-like-a-production-line-35581158.html


  • #3305
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    Edward M wrote: »
    Nothing around Cavan or Longford either that I've noticed.
    The only thing I've encountered so far are people handing out pro life leaflets after a football match in Cavan.

    Cavan town has been littered with Save posters since at least Saturday. In fact, I think they went up the morning after the campaign was "official."

    You'd think all those bazillions George and Murder Factory Clinics are pumping into this, and stand to make from this, there'd be a few Repeal things.


  • #3306
    amdublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    Savita didn't want an abortion, she wanted a baby. When she had a miscarriage, the 8th combined with medical incompetence resulted in her death. Without the 8th the way forward would have been 100% clear cut. It could happen to any woman.

    I was crying after reading the first 9 words of this paragraph

    #neveragain
    Repeal the 8th


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  • #3307
    posturingpat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,726 ✭✭✭posturingpat


    Sofiztikated wrote: »
    Cavan town has been littered with Save posters since at least Saturday. In fact, I think they went up the morning after the campaign was "official."

    You'd think all those bazillions George and Murder Factory Clinics are pumping into this, and stand to make from this, there'd be a few Repeal things.

    I'm friends with someone involved in the pro choice campaign in Cavan and he's got my news feed filled with pictures of Posters/leaflets/t shirts, Canvassing etc :confused:


  • #3308
    It wasnt me123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    posturingpat wrote: »
    I'm friends with someone involved in the pro choice campaign in Cavan and he's got my news feed filled with pictures of Posters/leaflets/t shirts, Canvassing etc :confused:

    I'm sure my friends are feeling your pain as I've liked all the Together for Yes FB pages and InYourShoes FB page.

    Repeal all the way but we need to advertise and promote pro choice


  • #3309
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    erica74 wrote: »
    Has anyone seen any prochoice posters or anything around where they live? I live just outside Waterford City and I haven't seen a single prochoice poster. All I see are those 3 stupid vans driving around with their antichoice nonsense on the sides.

    I'm okay with this. Election/referendum posters are such eyesores and piss a lot of people off. I lived in the UK during a general election and the difference between the UK and Ireland is stark in this regard. Hopefully, the pro-life posters will put some people off voting that way.


  • #3310
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    The No side in the marriage equality referendum were first to get posters up to, and there was talk from some quarters that this showed they were the more prepared side, etc. In the end though, the tone and messaging worked against them, and I think there's potential for the same to happen for the No side in this referendum too.

    That said, if you want to see more Yes side posters, then donate to the yes group because they don't have a lot of money (despite what some would like to say) and posters aren't cheap.


  • #3311
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    the 8th doesn't just affect those seeking abortion, it hangs as a dark cloud over every pregnant woman in Ireland and daily affects the health and wellbeing of women with wanted pregnancies.

    Very true.

    For example: my SiL lives in the U.K. following a difficult labour with her 2nd child they wanted to induce her 2 weeks before her due date with her youngest. She refused, and the child was born with no issues, a perfectly average weight, 2 weeks after the due date. If they had induced her when they wanted the infant would have been absolutely tiny, with all the issues that come with that. Had she lived in Ireland it would not have been ‘we would like to’ it would have been ‘we are going to’ and if she refused she could have been brought to court to force her to be induced early against her will.


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  • #3312
    erica74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭erica74


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    I'm okay with this. Election/referendum posters are such eyesores and piss a lot of people off. I lived in the UK during a general election and the difference between the UK and Ireland is stark in this regard. Hopefully, the pro-life posters will put some people off voting that way.

    I'm not mad about them myself. I was moreso just wondering because of the 3 antichoice vans that I see around Waterford, it just got me thinking, what about the prochoice side.


  • #3313
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,916 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    I actually think allowing politicians to vote personally and outside the party whip has made the no side's job harder.
    When it comes down to your local TD having to give their personal feelinhn on the topic, suddenly choice, logic and debate enter the picture, which goes against the absolute dogma of "No abortion", with no.real back--up argument.Suddenly those who are a shade of grey on the topic have to start listening and thinking about the debate.
    I'm actually finding it has changed the whole tone of the discussion, in a mature way.


  • #3314
    Nettle Soup
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Nettle Soup


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    The No side in the marriage equality referendum were first to get posters up to, and there was talk from some quarters that this showed they were the more prepared side, etc. In the end though, the tone and messaging worked against them, and I think there's potential for the same to happen for the No side in this referendum too.

    Agree completely. Going overly strong too early makes their campaign look bossy and intimidating. Paddy doesn't like that.

    I think repeal will win. Otherwise we will have 10-15 more years before people see sense.


  • #3315
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    kylith wrote: »
    Very true.

    For example: my SiL lives in the U.K. following a difficult labour with her 2nd child they wanted to induce her 2 weeks before her due date with her youngest. She refused, and the child was born with no issues, a perfectly average weight, 2 weeks after the due date. If they had induced her when they wanted the infant would have been absolutely tiny, with all the issues that come with that. Had she lived in Ireland it would not have been ‘we would like to’ it would have been ‘we are going to’ and if she refused she could have been brought to court to force her to be induced early against her will.

    I had my two boys in the UK. Everything is presented as an offer - I was induced with my second at 38 weeks, we were offered the choice of starting induction on the spot, the following day or having monitoring every day or two instead when I went to maternity triage at 37+6 after a second bout of reduced movements. No compulsion in any particular choice. Same thing with any tests in pregnancy - you can decline whatever you want even against medical advice.


  • #3316
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It wasnt me123 wrote: »
    I'm sure my friends are feeling your pain as I've liked all the Together for Yes FB pages and InYourShoes FB page.

    Repeal all the way but we need to advertise and promote pro choice
    Donate. Donate. Donate.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #3317
    It wasnt me123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    shesty wrote: »
    I actually think allowing politicians to vote personally and outside the party whip has made the no side's job harder.
    When it comes down to your local TD having to give their personal feelinhn on the topic, suddenly choice, logic and debate enter the picture, which goes against the absolute dogma of "No abortion", with no.real back--up argument........

    Unless you're in Mattie McGrath's constituency - there is no reasoning with him, its Catholic dogma all the way with him. Frustrating because he is actually a very good local politician, gets things done, his office responds efficiently to issues - he just has blinkers on when it comes to Catholic dogma.

    Repeal all the way - no paedo hypocrite priest has the right to comment on my reproduction system


  • #3318
    It wasnt me123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Donate. Donate. Donate.

    I can't, just started a new business and no money for marketing, let alone donations.

    But silver linings and all that

    I have time on my hands at the moment, while my business builds, to go on social media, like all the pages I want to, respond to posts when I feel like it (with my repeal all the way) and promote the yes vote.

    So I can't give money but I can promote electronically.


  • #3319
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    It wasnt me123 wrote: »
    I can't, just started a new business and no money for marketing, let alone donations.

    But silver linings and all that

    I have time on my hands at the moment, while my business builds, to go on social media, like all the pages I want to, respond to posts when I feel like it (with my repeal all the way) and promote the yes vote.

    So I can't give money but I can promote electronically.

    Promote locally too if you can local groups are running stalls and canvasses and events take part!


  • #3320
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    It wasnt me123 wrote: »
    I can't, just started a new business and no money for marketing, let alone donations.

    But silver linings and all that

    I have time on my hands at the moment, while my business builds, to go on social media, like all the pages I want to, respond to posts when I feel like it (with my repeal all the way) and promote the yes vote.

    So I can't give money but I can promote electronically.

    If you have time, give that.
    Get involved and manage a social media account.
    Go out and canvas, distribute leaflets or put the posters up.

    Liking stuff on Facebook is ok, but it's codding yourself if you think it'll make any difference.


  • #3321
    frag420
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,161 ✭✭✭frag420


    Are those of us living outside Ireland allowed to donate?

    Just out of a lunch meeting with my CEO here, I have convinced them to make a sizeable donation (from our charity fund) but it would be under my and several colleagues names and split up accordingly under each name so that it is not flagged!? All colleagues are Irish nationals living abroad but have Irish addresses and will be voting come May!

    Any ideas on where we stand?


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  • #3322
    thee glitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    baylah17 wrote: »
    Oh I do believe in restrictions.

    i firmly believe that no woman should be compelled to carry an unwanted pregnancy against her will.

    To a point though, restricted, like you believe in?
    [/quote]


  • #3323
    It wasnt me123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    I think highlighting InHerShoes and other FB pages does make a difference - their stories are very powerful.

    I can't canvas/hand out pamphlets, my job (not saying what) doesn't allow me to visibly say whether I'm for or against in any referendum or election - so I do what I can to say Repeal Repeal Repeal which is better than nothing (I think anyways)


  • #3324
    baylah17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 790 ✭✭✭baylah17


    thee glitz wrote: »
    To a point though, restricted, like you believe in?
    [/QUOTE]
    Misrepresent much??
    Or just too scared to quote my whole post?
    Sad wikkie boy be sad!


  • #3325
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    kylith wrote: »
    Had she lived in Ireland it would not have been ‘we would like to’ it would have been ‘we are going to’ and if she refused she could have been brought to court to force her to be induced early against her will.

    Brought to court? I seriously doubt that. Let's keep the 'Repeal' arguments cogent.


  • #3326
    thee glitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    Yes, you did.[/quite]

    So the thing that I said was a question, and what you said I did didn't actually happen.

    [What issues do you think I have, exactly?

    None now that you've cleared it up.


  • #3327
    thee glitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    Ave Sodalis said
    Yes, you did.

    So the thing that I said was a question, and what you said I did didn't actually happen. 


    This edit post option is rubbish.


  • #3328
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #3329
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    Brought to court? I seriously doubt that. Let's keep the 'Repeal' arguments cogent.

    There has been at least one instance of a hospital bring a woman to court under the 8th to induce delivery. The judge in that case refused the hospital's application, but that's not to say a judge wouldn't make a different decision in future.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hse-used-eighth-to-try-to-force-me-to-have-a-caesarean-gz62kr9tb

    It's obviously not a common step, but it's arguments go, it's certainly relevant and cogent.


  • #3330
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    frag420 wrote: »
    Are those of us living outside Ireland allowed to donate?

    Just out of a lunch meeting with my CEO here, I have convinced them to make a sizeable donation (from our charity fund) but it would be under my and several colleagues names and split up accordingly under each name so that it is not flagged!? All colleagues are Irish nationals living abroad but have Irish addresses and will be voting come May!

    Any ideas on where we stand?

    If you're an Irish citizen or a person living in Ireland then all good, when you go to donate it just asks you to confirm you are one or the other!

    Good job on getting the company donation!!


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  • #3331
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    thee glitz wrote: »
    Ave Sodalis said


    So the thing that I said was a question, and what you said I did didn't actually happen.


    I take it that we are to believe you weren't implying anything by that question then so?

    Not even the "happy convenience" thing, that you edited out of the post I quoted?


This discussion has been closed.
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