Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

Options
1…6667697172…336

Comments

  • Options
    #2042
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Former Former wrote: »
    I'm not saying I agree with it, and it might be a different kettle of fish if they somehow end up seeing out their contracts with Ulster and aren't picked for Ireland (probably not an issue for Olding anyway). That might work.

    But I just can't see any scenario in which Jackson plays for Ireland this side of the World Cup anyway. There's an incredible amount of anger out there and the first picture of Jackson having the craic at Ireland training camp or his team-mates hugging him in celebration, all that anger will be focussed squarely on IRFU.

    I don't think this is just going to blow over.

    What exactly are so many people angry about? Some guys behaving in a very horrible, ungallant and bragging manner in private about an encounter? Seems to me that there are a lot of hypocrites jumping on a pretty easy to board bandwagon. But then Ireland is like that. Two faced on a huge range of social mores.


  • Options
    #2043
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Can we refer people discussing the trial and verdict to an after hours thread on the subject?

    I'd rather retain my sanity ;)


  • Options
    #2044
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Deleted User wrote: »
    facehugger99 wrote: »
    There wasn't enough evidence to secure a rape conviction, but their behavior and treatment of a drunk teenager, IMO, was appalling. It renders them unfit to represent their country, again IMO.

    Don't believe the other situation you refer to is anyway comparable TBH.

    We're not meant to be discussing details of the trial so I'm not going to respond with specifics but the evidence left open enough possibilities that their actions could have been absolutely reasonable by any contemporary standard.

    If people want to get upset about some private whatsapp message then fine, but having a dark sense of humour doesn't at all equate to being a bad person or disrespectful. In the absence of neither a conviction nor any evidenciary silver bullet these people should go back to where they were before this started as far as I'm concerned.

    Again without discussing details, many people will have questions and suspicions that will remain unresolved forever that make them feel uneasy about them and it might have more to do with other evidence that is not mentioned here. They are not guilty but I will probably always have a nasty mental pause everytime I see or hear about them. I'm still willing to ignore that and move on but I can see why others are not.


  • Options
    #2045
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    If people are going to stop supporting teams based on WhatsApp groups and their content, I'll save you the hassle and you can just stop supporting all teams in all sports from amateur level up.


  • Options
    #2046
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    joseywhales wrote: »
    Again without discussing details, many people will have questions and suspicions that will remain unresolved forever that make them feel uneasy about them and it might have more to do with other evidence that is not mentioned here. They are not guilty but I will probably always have a nasty mental pause everytime I see or hear about them. I'm still willing to ignore that and move on but I can see why others are not.

    These would be mainly the ones who made up their minds before a word was uttered in court unlike the jury who heard every one.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2047
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    If people are going to stop supporting teams based on WhatsApp groups and their content, I'll save you the hassle and you can just stop supporting all teams in all sports from amateur level up.
    I honestly don't think WhatsApp is the concern


  • Options
    #2048
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Can we refer people discussing the trial and verdict to an after hours thread on the subject?

    Thankfully I don't have to moderate After Hours (*shudder*) so yes, yes anyone who wants to talk about the trial can happily **** off there.


  • Options
    #2049
    The Black Stags
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭The Black Stags


    Just heard on the wireless, protests are about to take place in Belfast (and I think some other cities) over the verdict.


  • Options
    #2050
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,603 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    The Black Stags wrote: »
    Just heard on the wireless, protests are about to take place in Belfast (and I think some other cities) over the verdict.

    There was a gathering at 12:30 in Dublin at the spire, but it was less a protest at the verdict and more a show of support for victims everywhere.


  • Options
    #2051
    The Black Stags
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭The Black Stags


    errlloyd wrote: »
    The Black Stags wrote: »
    Just heard on the wireless, protests are about to take place in Belfast (and I think some other cities) over the verdict.

    There was a gathering at 12:30 in Dublin at the spire, but it was less a protest at the verdict and more a show of support for victims everywhere.
    Did you see it? There was a bit more information on the radio, said there were 2,000 people? Like you say support for victims everywhere and some in support for the boys.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2052
    Brewster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭Brewster


    joseywhales wrote: »
    I honestly don't think WhatsApp is the concern

    So what exactly is the concern? We have two innocent rugby players, one the heir apparent to the number 10 throne, somebody who we need in the Irish rugby squad, being vilified here? I want the best players on the park for Ireland, and Paddy Jackson has proven he belongs in this category. He has had a season of his career wrongly taken away from him. He has lost out on a grand slam winners medal, he has endured personal financial loss. I’d love to know what the issue of concern is?


  • Options
    #2053
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    If people are going to stop supporting teams based on WhatsApp groups and their content, I'll save you the hassle and you can just stop supporting all teams in all sports from amateur level up.

    Just on this topic, Drogheda United (I think) and Laois GAA (I think again) came out pretty quickly after members of each respective panel tweeted absolutely stupid things after the verdict. Drogheda seems to have come down a lot harder than Laois, but how stupid do you have to be to get dragged into this in the first place.


  • Options
    #2054
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    joseywhales wrote: »
    Again without discussing details, many people will have questions and suspicions that will remain unresolved forever that make them feel uneasy about them and it might have more to do with other evidence that is not mentioned here. They are not guilty but I will probably always have a nasty mental pause everytime I see or hear about them. I'm still willing to ignore that and move on but I can see why others are not.

    People having questions and suspicions is fine. However you can't indulge those questions and suspicions nor act on them in the treatment of private individuals cleared of criminal wrongdoing.

    The reaction of the last 24 hours has all but ensured they won't play in Ireland again regardless, if it was ever a possibility before.


  • Options
    #2055
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,236 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    They have broken no law, are no longer accused of any crime. Let them play.


  • Options
    #2056
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Just on this topic, Drogheda United (I think) and Laois GAA (I think again) came out pretty quickly after members of each respective panel tweeted absolutely stupid things after the verdict. Drogheda seems to have come down a lot harder than Laois, but how stupid do you have to be to get dragged into this in the first place.

    There are a lot of people including journalists, senators and beyond that are making equally outrageous statements. I doubt we'll see any similar rebuke in those instances to be honest.


  • Options
    #2057
    optogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭optogirl


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    They have broken no law, are no longer accused of any crime. Let them play.

    If this hadn't gone to trial & the details of the night, presuming consent was given, was reported in the national press I think they would have been dropped anyway


  • Options
    #2058
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Thankfully I don't have to moderate After Hours (*shudder*) so yes, yes anyone who wants to talk about the trial can happily **** off there.

    Is after hours moderated, who knew.


  • Options
    #2059
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Just on this topic, Drogheda United (I think) and Laois GAA (I think again) came out pretty quickly after members of each respective panel tweeted absolutely stupid things after the verdict. Drogheda seems to have come down a lot harder than Laois, but how stupid do you have to be to get dragged into this in the first place.

    Not sure what the tweets were or the reactions but Drogheda United is a professional club where people are paid to play for them. The players have much more of an obligation not of bring disrepute that laois gaa players who are amateurs.


  • Options
    #2060
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,551 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This is nothing like the OJ Simpson trial.

    I said that the OJ trial was a similar example of people continuing to hold their own opinions regardless of verdict. Stop twisting my words to suit your own replies please.


  • Options
    #2061
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,236 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    optogirl wrote: »
    If this hadn't gone to trial & the details of the night, presuming consent was given, was reported in the national press I think they would have been dropped anyway

    Do you? I don't. Connor Murray and Simon Zebo's careers have gone from strength to strength.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2062
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,551 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Posters who are saying things along the lines of "if you think a few dirty WhatsApp messages deserve a ban..." are either being deliberately and wilfully ignorant of what is truly driving some of the public anger, or you need to go read social media again. Obviously the details can't be discussed here, but I think it's incredibly obvious that nobody is angry solely about those few private messages.


  • Options
    #2063
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    jacothelad wrote: »
    What exactly are so many people angry about? Some guys behaving in a very horrible, ungallant and bragging manner in private about an encounter? Seems to me that there are a lot of hypocrites jumping on a pretty easy to board bandwagon. But then Ireland is like that. Two faced on a huge range of social mores.

    People are not angry about their bragging, you know that.

    Regardless of what you think of the hypocrites and their social mores, that's the way of it and neither Ulster Rugby nor IRFU can survive without the goodwill of the general public.

    If IRFU decide to stand by their man, then they have to be prepared for some pretty grim consequences. Maybe that's not fair, maybe that doesn't square with the notion of innnocent until proven guilty, but it's the reality.


  • Options
    #2064
    RuMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭RuMan


    Olding is probably dispensable and may welcome the chance to move abroad and move on.
    If PJ gets back to previous level (which will be extremely difficult) see no reason why he shouldn't be selected as after Sexton he's our number 2 outhalf.
    Its a professional game, they were found not guilty. If form merits selection nothing else is relevant.


  • Options
    #2065
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Posters who are saying things along the lines of "if you think a few dirty WhatsApp messages deserve a ban..." are either being deliberately and wilfully ignorant of what is truly driving some of the public anger, or you need to go read social media again. Obviously the details can't be discussed here, but I think it's incredibly obvious that nobody is angry solely about those few private messages.

    You've missed the point. Those messages are at this point the only thing they are guilty of.


  • Options
    #2066
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,603 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    The Black Stags wrote: »
    Did you see it? There was a bit more information on the radio, said there were 2,000 people? Like you say support for victims everywhere and some in support for the boys.

    I did not, the office isn't far away.

    I haven't posted much here on their future contracts. But I think the guys can make a very good living abroad - potentially much better than they would make here. Particularly now they have lost some of their image value.

    They're not Eoin O Malley or Jonny Holland. They are unfortunate that no verdict was ever likely to rule them completely "innocent", but at the same time they are fortunate that the burden of proof for a criminal trial is so high. In my heart of hearts I can't feel sorry for them, because ultimately I think they're probably lucky to be free men, and within a few years they will once again be well earning, free men, playing the sport they love.


  • Options
    #2067
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,551 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    You've missed the point. Those message are at this point the only thing they are guilty of.

    What does that even mean? What exactly do you think people are angry about?


  • Options
    #2068
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You've missed the point. Those message are at this point the only thing they are guilty of.

    Those messages, plus the ones they deleted. As well as the conduct they admitted to.


  • Options
    #2069
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    MJohnston wrote: »
    What does that even mean? What exactly do you think people are angry about?

    Some people are angry purely because they don't understand how a trial works. But there's nothing anyone can do about that and if it makes them unemployable then it's entirely the players' fault.


  • Options
    #2070
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Do you? I don't. Connor Murray and Simon Zebo's careers have gone from strength to strength.

    I think the details of the text messages and taking part in gangbangs are enough to see them dropped through some kind of morality clause. Sponsors won't have any interest in supporting that.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2071
    RuMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭RuMan


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Some people are angry purely because they don't understand how a trial works. But there's nothing anyone can do about that and if it makes them unemployable then it's entirely the players' fault.

    they are innocent of everything except having a consensual threesome and sending bragging messages.
    Only thing i'm interested in now is their performance on a rugby field.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement