NTA's 3bn Underground Metro Plan Unveiled

cherryghost · 22-03-2018 4:09pm #1

Deets https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0322/949357-nta-unveils-3bn-underground-metro-plan/

Anne Graham CEO of the NTA said the 26km track should be operational by 2027 if it succeeds in the planning process.

The line will run from Sandyford in south Dublin to beyond Swords in north Dublin also taking in Dublin Airport.

It will connect with the Luas Green line at the Charlemont stop in the south city, connecting with the DART at Tara St station, with both Luas lines in O’Connell St and with the Maynooth and Kildare Commuter lines at Glasnevin.

It would share the track with the Luas Green line from Sandyford to Charlemont where it would go underground until the airport.

So... not an underground then. Sounds like a terrible idea on paper considering how often Luas runs currently.

magicbastarder · 22-03-2018 4:16pm

it says it'll be underground from charlemont to the airport, though? i.e. for nearly all of the northside section and a portion of the southside section.

thomasj · 22-03-2018 4:20pm

Maynooth/Kildare line connection @ Glasnevin :eek:

Didn't think there was space for a station?

IE 222 · 22-03-2018 4:21pm

cherryghost wrote: »

Deets https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0322/949357-nta-unveils-3bn-underground-metro-plan/

So... not an underground then. Sounds like a terrible idea on paper considering how often Luas runs currently.

What else did you expect. Its the NTA, which is made up of nothing more than a few office folk looking at how to make the project cheap and attractive. It would be better bore the southern half of the tunnel to Harolds cross or Crumlin than joining with the LUAS which will slow down the Metro.

IE 222 · 22-03-2018 4:21pm

thomasj wrote: »

Maynooth/Kildare line connection @ Glasnevin :eek:

Didn't think there was space for a station?

Im guessing Des Kelly will be getting CPO'd

Which is probably the only good thing of the whole project as long as both the Docklands and Connolly routes get platforms.

cgcsb · 22-03-2018 4:53pm

Just to clarify the metro will not be sharing space with luas. Metro services will operate Sandyford-Swords, cannibalizing the existing Green line between Sandyford and Ranelagh.

The existing Green line will be split up into two:

Charlemont-Broombridge(then extended to Finglas)

and Sandyford-Bride's Glen (then extended to Bray).

The Sandyford-Ranelagh section of existing green luas line will be absorbed into metro with a few upgrades to eliminate junction conflicts

IE 222 · 22-03-2018 4:58pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Just to clarify the metro will not be sharing space with luas. Metro services will operate Sandyford-Swords, cannibalizing the existing Green line between Sandyford and Ranelagh.

The existing Green line will be split up into two:

Charlemont-Broombridge(then extended to Finglas)

and Sandyford-Bride's Glen (then extended to Bray).

The Sandyford-Ranelagh section of existing green luas line will be absorbed into metro with a few upgrades to eliminate junction conflicts

Thats not what is been reported. They suggest both will use the current line after been upgraded.

Stephen15 · 22-03-2018 5:14pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Thats not what is been reported. They suggest both will use the current line after been upgraded.

From the article. Seems like it could be contradicting.

The Metro would travel overground from Sandyford to Charlemont where it will go underground to the airport. The Luas Green line would shuttle between Brides Glen and Sandyford and from Charlemont to Broombridge.

ignorance is strength · 22-03-2018 5:20pm

IE 222 wrote: »

What else did you expect. Its the NTA, which is made up of nothing more than a few office folk looking at how to make the project cheap and attractive. It would be better bore the southern half of the tunnel to Harolds cross or Crumlin than joining with the LUAS which will slow down the Metro.

It's as if you have no idea what you're talking about.

IE 222 · 22-03-2018 5:21pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

From the article. Seems like it could be contradicting.

Still a needless waste if thats whats going to happen. The city needs an expansion in rail networks not upgrading current ones. Id rather see this money been spent including a new area even if its only extended a mile.

Dickerty · 22-03-2018 5:55pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

it says it'll be underground from charlemont to the airport, though? i.e. for nearly all of the northside section and a portion of the southside section.

Magic? Is that really you, from P45?? You were one funny bastarder!!!

As for this story, I am less than impressed that the DCU station seems to have been moved to Collins Ave junction with Ballymun Rd. I basically live opposite Albert College. I think they'll be stealing the central median all the way down Ballymun Road?

magicbastarder · 22-03-2018 5:56pm

Dickerty wrote: »

Magic? Is that really you, from P45?? You were one funny bastarder!!!

sshhh... the past is another country.

L1011 · 22-03-2018 6:00pm

thomasj wrote: »

Maynooth/Kildare line connection @ Glasnevin :eek:

Didn't think there was space for a station?

Extensive CPO required and planned

Mint Sauce · 22-03-2018 6:04pm

And no connected stops with the capitals rail terminals. Talk about lack of planning.

GM228 · 22-03-2018 6:27pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Thats not what is been reported. They suggest both will use the current line after been upgraded.

From the NTA document:-

The underground section will terminate close to Charlemont Stop on the Luas Green Line, where the metro will connect to, and run southwards on the existing Luas Green Line. The Luas Green Line will be upgraded to metro standard as part of the project.

It's not clear if LUAS will continue to operate alongside, but it does say:-

The existing Green Line will be upgraded to facilitate fully segregated Metro services which will include junction modifications where the existing Luas line crosses Dunville Avenue and St. Raphael’s Road. Metrolink services will turn back at Sandyford with Luas services continuing onwards to Brides Glen.

IE 222 · 22-03-2018 6:30pm

ignorance is strength wrote: »

It's as if you have no idea what you're talking about.

How did you come to that conclusion?

IE 222 · 22-03-2018 6:35pm

GM228 wrote: »

From the NTA document:-

It's not clear if LUAS will continue to operate alongside, but it does say:-

Thats more confusing. What to they mean fully segregated. Building an additional two lines beside current LUAS lines.

Rulmeq · 22-03-2018 6:44pm

So, does this mean the metro will be using the same gauge as the LUAS, or will it use (Irish) standard gauge? I'm assuming it's going to keep the LUAS (non-Irish) standard gauge, since it doesn't really seem to be planning any integration with existing IE network, but it does seem strange for us to be building so much (non-Irish) standard gauge rail, given that we have our own (Irish) standard gauge.

Stephen15 · 22-03-2018 6:45pm

Mint Sauce wrote: »

And no connected stops with the capitals rail terminals. Talk about lack of planning.

There will be a Tara Street stop and a new stop at Whitworth which will be served by IE.

marno21 · 22-03-2018 6:49pm

Rulmeq wrote: »

So, does this mean the metro will be using the same gauge as the LUAS, or will it use (Irish) standard gauge? I'm assuming it's going to keep the LUAS (non-Irish) standard gauge, since it doesn't really seem to be planning any integration with existing IE network, but it does seem strange for us to be building so much (non-Irish) standard gauge rail, given that we have our own (Irish) standard gauge.

It'll be using the same gauge as the Luas. The existing Luas lines from Ranelagh-Sandyford will be used as is.

zom · 22-03-2018 6:50pm

I hope it will open door on corrects side while at the stops:

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/transport-officials-concerned-after-luas-passenger-doors-open-on-the-side-of-oncoming-traffic-833799.html

Stephen15 · 22-03-2018 6:51pm

Rulmeq wrote: »

So, does this mean the metro will be using the same gauge as the LUAS, or will it use (Irish) standard gauge? I'm assuming it's going to keep the LUAS (non-Irish) standard gauge, since it doesn't really seem to be planning any integration with existing IE network, but it does seem strange for us to be building so much (non-Irish) standard gauge rail, given that we have our own (Irish) standard gauge.

Not weird at all. The Metro will not share any track with any other transport mode such as the Luas or IE trains under the current plans. Standard gauge as the name suggests is used all over the world and is the most common gauge internationally meaning rolling stock will be cheaper as it would not need to be custom built to a particular gauge.

ignorance is strength · 22-03-2018 6:54pm

IE 222 wrote: »

How did you come to that conclusion?

Amongst others things, because you are still confused by this...

IE 222 wrote: »

Thats more confusing. What to they mean fully segregated. Building an additional two lines beside current LUAS lines.

IE 222 · 22-03-2018 7:02pm

ignorance is strength wrote: »

Amongst others things, because you are still confused by this...

And rightly so... it doesn't clarify how its been built.

zom · 22-03-2018 7:03pm

I am seriously worried about mental state of people who proposed that line location. What makes me even more worried is that these people can spend our REAL money on their sick fantasies making things even worse than they are now.
But problem is that there is number of sheeple who vote these people every next election without any conscience or consideration what they do and where it will take us...

bk · 22-03-2018 7:07pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Thats not what is been reported. They suggest both will use the current line after been upgraded.

No it won't. I've just spent the last few hours reading over the documents.

It still has to be finally decided. But the prefered option completely cuts the Green Line between Charlemont Station and Ranelagh. The Metro will cut onto the Luas track there.

This is called Option 4(B) Ranelagh In-Line

Nearly all the other options also partly or fully cut the line.

IE 222 wrote: »

Im guessing Des Kelly will be getting CPO'd

Yes and also the Brian Boru pub and houses in between by the looks of it.

IE 222 wrote: »

Still a needless waste if thats whats going to happen. The city needs an expansion in rail networks not upgrading current ones. Id rather see this money been spent including a new area even if its only extended a mile.

This will allow between a doubling to quadupling of the capacity of the Green line, very relatively very little money. It is a relatively cheap and easy upgrade to an already overcapacity line with great potential for a lot more development along the line.

Mint Sauce wrote: »

And no connected stops with the capitals rail terminals. Talk about lack of planning.

Err, massive new interchange station at Tara St.

Also massive new interchange station at Whitworth Road, that with connect both the Kildare and Maynoth line with Metro.

In fact I suspect Hueston and Connlly will both become far less important as commuter stations with Whitworth Road becoming the important one.

Rulmeq wrote: »

So, does this mean the metro will be using the same gauge as the LUAS, or will it use (Irish) standard gauge? I'm assuming it's going to keep the LUAS (non-Irish) standard gauge, since it doesn't really seem to be planning any integration with existing IE network, but it does seem strange for us to be building so much (non-Irish) standard gauge rail, given that we have our own (Irish) standard gauge.

It will use Standard Gauge. Standard Gauge is used all across Europe. It makes it easy to buy off the shelf trains. Irish Gauge is a pain in the ass as it is mostly just in Ireland meaning we have to order customised trains for it, which means it costs more, with no benefit from passenger carriage perspective.

bk · 22-03-2018 7:12pm

Proposed station at Whitworth Road:

The plans don't fully show the Irish Rail side, I assume that will come somewhat separaetly as the plans develop.

zom · 22-03-2018 7:23pm

bk wrote: »

The plans ...

Where did you find that ?

Anyway - using existing lines (and I presume disabling them for a time of construction) is pure nonsense. We should EXPAND public transport network instead of upgrading it. Draught sketch how it should looks like here below:

What Dublin needs dramatically is better connection from West parts of the city (Tallaght, Clondalkin, Lucan, Blanch) - why not to redirect line along Harolds Cross / Templeogue down to Tallaght? Also lot of space in Tallagh would allow for Park & Ride if needed. This should be priority of that development and doing "upgrade" to current green Luas line is just waste of money without any future proof strategy.

And if you need new line going Bray / Wicklow direction why not to go along N11 and join M50 in Cherrywood to serve growing office / apartment developments there and allowing people who travel from South of Dublin to switch into metro (Park & Ride) ? Although I thing West of Dublin needs new public transport lines more than South.

Lennoxschips · 22-03-2018 7:26pm

It's a very Dublin-centric plan. If you are coming down from the north on a commuter train or an Enterprise service and you want to get out to the airport, you have to:
(1) Get off at Connolly
(2) Walk to O'Connell St or take the DART to Tara St.
(3) Change to Metro
Would have been better to put a metro station at Connolly station instead of Tara. Or, extend the metro beyond Swords overland to the Belfast mainline and build an interchange station.

flas · 22-03-2018 7:40pm

Na Fianna,the gaa club in glasnevin are not one bit happy,said they got a phone call at 4:30 Friday 16th to say the nta wanted a meeting for last night,where they were told they will lose their front pitch and all their astro pitches as well as club house activities being severely disrupted.. home farm at the back also received the same news... it's where the tunnel boring main depot will be apparently!

So yeah,going up against the Gaa trying to get this done as quickly as in the plans and for the budget they said will not happen! Fun times ahead

Edit: link http://www.clgnafianna.com/

bk · 22-03-2018 7:43pm

zom wrote: »

Where did you find that ?

All here, not massive PDFs ahead:

http://www.metrolink.ie/#/alignment-options-study/1

zom wrote: »

Anyway - using existing lines (and I presume disabling them for a time of construction) is pure nonsense. We should EXPAND public transport network instead of upgrading it. Draught sketch how it should looks like here below:

What Dublin needs dramatically is better connection from West parts of the city (Tallaght, Clondalkin, Lucan, Blanch) - why not to redirect line along Harolds Cross / Templeogue down to Tallaght? Also lot of space for Park & Ride facility in Tallaght area if needed. This should be priority of that development and doing "upgrade" to current green Luas line is just waste of money without any future proof strategy.

And if you need new line going Bray / Wicklow direction why not to go along N11 and join M50 in Cherrywood to serve growing office / apartment developments there and allowing people who travel from South of Dublin to switch into metro (Park & Ride) ? Although I thing West of Dublin needs new public transport lines more than South.

The difference is their plan costs just 100 million, a pittance out of a 3 billion project.

Your above proposed line would cost at least 1 billion extra. And the line you propose doesn't really have much housing development potential along it, unlike the Green line does (big empty fields).

I do think we will eventually get an extension like this. But later.

Lennoxschips wrote: »

It's a very Dublin-centric plan. If you are coming down from the north on a commuter train or an Enterprise service and you want to get out to the airport, you have to:
(1) Get off at Connolly
(2) Walk to O'Connell St or take the DART to Tara St.
(3) Change to Metro
Would have been better to put a metro station at Connolly station instead of Tara. Or, extend the metro beyond Swords overland to the Belfast mainline and build an interchange station.

Well it is mass transit for Dublin, so that is rightfully the focus.

Commuter trains on the Northern line will likely be electrified and we likely continue to Tara and south. So you could always get off at Tara and change to the Metro there.

Enterprise just doesn't carry enough people to matter. I suspect most coming from Belfast are already on Aircoach/Dublin Coach/BE services.

Though it would be nice if they later extended the Metro to meet the DART line north of Swords. The depot there looks like it is being designed to support through running.

With Whitworth Road being built and Docklands being increased at Tara becoming an interchange. I suspect Connolly will become far less important as a commuter station.

Boulevardier · 22-03-2018 7:45pm

Is it still proposed to dig up Stephen's Green for several years to facilitate construction, or has this changed?

Lord Glentoran · 22-03-2018 7:46pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Just to clarify the metro will not be sharing space with luas. Metro services will operate Sandyford-Swords, cannibalizing the existing Green line between Sandyford and Ranelagh.

The existing Green line will be split up into two:

Charlemont-Broombridge(then extended to Finglas)

and Sandyford-Bride's Glen (then extended to Bray).

The Sandyford-Ranelagh section of existing green luas line will be absorbed into metro with a few upgrades to eliminate junction conflicts

Harcourt Street to Bray with changes, eh? Looks like I'll be able to give that special salute to CS 'Tod' Andrews one day before I die then

bk · 22-03-2018 7:47pm

flas wrote: »

Na Fianna,the gaa club in glasnevin are not one bit happy,said they got a phone call at 4:30 Friday 16th to say the nta wanted a meeting for last night,where they were told they will lose their front pitch and all their astro pitches as well as club house activities being severely disrupted.. home farm at the back also received the same news... it's where the tunnel boring main depot will be apparently!

So yeah,going up against the Gaa trying to get this done as quickly as in the plans and for the budget they said will not happen! Fun times ahead

Edit: link http://www.clgnafianna.com/

Ah they are just looking for a nice payout. All the pitches and buildings will of course all be put back afterwards and likely far better then they are now.

Whitehall GAA club is now where the Port Tunnel boring hole was. Actually Na Fianna could temporarily move there. It isn't as if there aren't loads of GAA clibs in the area!

bk · 22-03-2018 7:49pm

Boulevardier wrote: »

Is it still proposed to dig up Stephen's Green for several years to facilitate construction, or has this changed?

It has changed, instead in will go on the road at Stephens Green East. Might be a minor bit of disturbance to that side of the park, but nothing to get the tree huggers in a twist.

zom · 22-03-2018 8:08pm

bk wrote: »

their plan costs just 100 million

Isn't it like Luas Cross City cost €368 million ??

ricimaki · 22-03-2018 8:10pm

Here's a nice map where you can see the full route.

bk · 22-03-2018 8:17pm

zom wrote: »

Isn't it like Luas Cross City cost €368 million ??

Yes and currently has a max capacity of 5,000 people per direction per hour.

For a mere 100 million, this upgrade will allow them to increase it to at least 15,000 PPDPH and almost 30,000 PPDPH if they go with a 90m driverless option.

A 3 to 6 times capacity increase for such a mere 100 million is pretty amazing value for money.

IE 222 · 22-03-2018 8:28pm

bk wrote: »

No it won't. I've just spent the last few hours reading over the documents.

It still has to be finally decided. But the prefered option completely cuts the Green Line between Charlemont Station and Ranelagh. The Metro will cut onto the Luas track there.

This is called Option 4(B) Ranelagh In-Line

Nearly all the other options also partly or fully cut the line.

Yes and also the Brian Boru pub and houses in between by the looks of it.

This will allow between a doubling to quadupling of the capacity of the Green line, very relatively very little money. It is a relatively cheap and easy upgrade to an already overcapacity line with great potential for a lot more development along the line.

Yeah it seems to suggest LUAS will terminate at Charlemont. It will be a costly tie-in. By the looks of it the Amazon office block will need to go and quite a few gardens and homes. There wont be a quick hop on hop off between Metro and Luas as one will need to transfer from an elevated station to an underground station located 100 meters or so away.

Will Luas continue between Sandyford and Brides Glen? Why did we spend millions on a new Luas network only to pull it apart again. The one good section of Luas that doesn't conflict with traffic is been removed. Numbers using Luas will drop as the idea of using 3 trams to travel between Brides Glen and Dawson Street will drive people back to the car.

Luas can cope with demand just as much as Metro will if Longer trams or doubling of trams can be used without the full costs of upgrading the line to Metro. The increase number factor in the Metro North as well. Reintroducing the 48A bus service should be looled into as well if Luas is struggling so badly.

€3bn???????????? Not a hope will this project be completed for €3bn. DU was forecast to cost €3bn and was nearly 20km shorter with very little CPO's.

If this whats required for the Green Line what will be needed for the busier Red Line.

marno21 · 22-03-2018 8:46pm

Ah here.

IE 222 wrote: »

Yeah it seems to suggest LUAS will terminate at Charlemont. It will be a costly tie-in. By the looks of it the Amazon office block will need to go and quite a few gardens and homes. There wont be a quick hop on hop off between Metro and Luas as one will need to transfer from an elevated station to an underground station located 100 meters or so away.

Yes but it'll stop jam packed trams south of Charlemont, especially with expected growth between now and 2027

Will Luas continue between Sandyford and Brides Glen? Why did we spend millions on a new Luas network only to pull it apart again. The one good section of Luas that doesn't conflict with traffic is been removed. Numbers using Luas will drop as the idea of using 3 trams to travel between Brides Glen and Dawson Street will drive people back to the car.

The Sandyford-CC section should have never been built as Luas. The fact that it was originally built to accomodate Metro running shows that the planners agree with that.

Nothing stopping people from Brides Glen switching to Metro at Sandyford and completing their journey by Metro all the way.

Luas can cope with demand just as much as Metro will if Longer trams or doubling of trams can be used without the full costs of upgrading the line to Metro. The increase number factor in the Metro North as well. Reintroducing the 48A bus service should be looled into as well if Luas is struggling so badly.

Longer trams are not feasible. The capacity of the Broombridge-Charlemont and Brides Glen-Sandyford sections is lower than the rest, so isolating the high capacity section and making it metro has many merits.

€3bn???????????? Not a hope will this project be completed for €3bn. DU was forecast to cost €3bn and was nearly 20km shorter with very little CPO's.

DU also included electrification to Hazelhatch, Drogheda, Maynooth and other ancilliary works. This is 3bn, only 13km of which will be in tunnel and the southern 9km will have a sum total of approx 100m.

Lets not forget DU had a much higher standard of tunnel alignment and had massive stations

If this whats required for the Green Line what will be needed for the busier Red Line.

DART Expansion would be a start.

IE 222 · 22-03-2018 8:50pm

ricimaki wrote: »

Here's a nice map where you can see the full route.

So if we look at this map and anyone even slightly knowledgeable about Dublin's current tranport woes will see that other than a slight reduction on the M1 this does nothing for the vast majority of people. We need more rail to reach the fringes of either side of the M50. We need to utilise and maximise our current rail network rather than separating and upgrading current rail. This doesn't even reach O'Connell Bridge and tips and bypasses the northern starting point of the M50.

Look at the number of arteries excluded. M2, M3, M4&6, M7,8 & 9, N81 and M11 and the numerous amounts of other corridors.

bk · 22-03-2018 8:51pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Yeah it seems to suggest LUAS will terminate at Charlemont. It will be a costly tie-in. By the looks of it the Amazon office block will need to go and quite a few gardens and homes. There wont be a quick hop on hop off between Metro and Luas as one will need to transfer from an elevated station to an underground station located 100 meters or so away.

Do you mean the office building at Dartmouth Square? No it won't be demolished, it is a listed building. Instead the Metro station will be built in the car park behind it. Only a few houses and some derelict warehouse need to be CPO'd to do it.

The interchange with the Charlemont Luas isn't a big deal, I'd see few people changing there. Most will stay on Metro to Stephens Green, etc. Your only missing out on people going from/to Harcourt St.

IE 222 wrote: »

Will Luas continue between Sandyford and Brides Glen? Why did we spend millions on a new Luas network only to pull it apart again. The one good section of Luas that doesn't conflict with traffic is been removed. Numbers using Luas will drop as the idea of using 3 trams to travel between Brides Glen and Dawson Street will drive people back to the car.

It isn't clear. Some docs seem to indicate it will terminate at Sandyford, others seems to indicate it will continue to Brides Glen. Perhaps most will terminate at Sandyford and 1 in 3 will continue to Brides Glen.

And actually how many people are travelling Brides Glen to Dawson St :rolleyes:

I'm sure the people of Brides Glen will happily make that trade to get an easy and quick one change to Tara St, O'Connell St and out to the airport.

IE 222 wrote: »

Luas can cope with demand just as much as Metro will if Longer trams or doubling of trams can be used without the full costs of upgrading the line to Metro. The increase number factor in the Metro North as well. Reintroducing the 48A bus service should be looled into as well if Luas is struggling so badly.

No it can't. We are already seeing it maxing out with the 43m trams and massive overcrowding with Luas Cross City. If they can get all trams upgraded to 55m and working, that might help for a while but it is only a band aid.

With all the planned development of tens of thousands of apartments along this line, this is badly needed.

IE 222 wrote: »

€3bn???????????? Not a hope will this project be completed for €3bn. DU was forecast to cost €3bn and was nearly 20km shorter with very little CPO's.

If this whats required for the Green Line what will be needed for the busier Red Line.

DU was more like 4 billion+ and a big part of the cost was due to the complexities of heavy rail operations, electrification, lots of new rolling stock, etc.

Metros in general are simpler and less costly. See Barcelona Metro, etc.

donvito99 · 22-03-2018 8:59pm

IE 222 wrote: »

So if we look at this map and anyone even slightly knowledgeable about Dublin's current tranport woes will see that other than a slight reduction on the M1 this does nothing for the vast majority of people. We need more rail to reach the fringes of either side of the M50. We need to utilise and maximise our current rail network rather than separating and upgrading current rail. This doesn't even reach O'Connell Bridge and tips and bypasses the northern starting point of the M50.

Look at the number of arteries excluded. M2, M3, M4&6, M7,8 & 9, N81 and M11 and the numerous amounts of other corridors.

THis is an extraordinary statement. Finally a railway alignment for the North city, the airport and Swords and it "doesn't serve the vast majority of people".

an insight into how we got to this point in the first place is gleaned from some of the contributors in this thread.

IE 222 · 22-03-2018 9:17pm

marno21 wrote: »

Ah here.

Yes but it'll stop jam packed trams south of Charlemont, especially with expected growth between now and 2027

The Sandyford-CC section should have never been built as Luas. The fact that it was originally built to accomodate Metro running shows that the planners agree with that.

Nothing stopping people from Brides Glen switching to Metro at Sandyford and completing their journey by Metro all the way.

Longer trams are not feasible. The capacity of the Broombridge-Charlemont and Brides Glen-Sandyford sections is lower than the rest, so isolating the high capacity section and making it metro has many merits.

DU also included electrification to Hazelhatch, Drogheda, Maynooth and other ancilliary works. This is 3bn, only 13km of which will be in tunnel and the southern 9km will have a sum total of approx 100m.

Lets not forget DU had a much higher standard of tunnel alignment and had massive stations

DART Expansion would be a start.

It will remove the jammed packed trams as many people will go back to the car. Transferring between modes aint exactly free flowing. Metro O'Connell Street stop is located at the junction of Parnell street. I wouldn't call that connecting with the red line. Terminating at Charlemont will have the same effect.

Have 90m units been confirmed yet.

Swapping from Luas to Metro is only beneficial if Metro brings you to your final destination.

Longer trams are clearly feasible as there is currently outcry for them now. Demand on them section is lower today but obviously the majority of growth is forecasted in them areas.

bk · 22-03-2018 9:28pm

IE 222 wrote: »

It will remove the jammed packed trams as many people will go back to the car. Transferring between modes aint exactly free flowing. Metro O'Connell Street stop is located at the junction of Parnell street. I wouldn't call that connecting with the red line. Terminating at Charlemont will have the same effect.

While it isn't an ideal connection. I can't think of many actual journeys people would make from the Metro to the Red line?

Terminating at Charelmont is no big deal at all. It literally only effects those going to/from Harcourt Street. And they can still do it, with just a short walk.

I suspect Luas will end up being extended south in a different direction. Giving us even more options.

IE 222 wrote: »

Have 90m units been confirmed yet.

Hasn't been decided yet. The plans show 90 meter platforms at the stations so that is the important part. They can start at 60m trains if they want and then add a third carriage if needed.

IE 222 wrote: »

Swapping from Luas to Metro is only beneficial if Metro brings you to your final destination.

Yeah, places like Stephens Green, Tara St (nice connections there), O'Connell St, the airport, etc. faster and with more space then ever before.

Genuinely, you aren't making any logical sense!

Mint Sauce · 22-03-2018 9:38pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

There will be a Tara Street stop and a new stop at Whitworth which will be served by IE.

Grand if you live in Dublin. If you are coming in from anywhere outside, there is going to be at least two changes and/or a walk. Would atleast expect a train service conecting to an international Airport, beside or in a Captital City, to be connected to a major terminus in that City.

Will they decide a few years after completion to have a spur or connection to Connolly or Huston, like they decided to connect the two Luas lines years later.

bk · 22-03-2018 9:39pm

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Grand if you live in Dublin. If you are coming in from anywhere outside, there is going to be at least two changes and/or a walk. Would atleast expect a train service conecting to an international Airport, beside or in a Captital City, to be connected to a major terminus in that City.

Changes are a key part of any modern transport system. It is completely normal all throughout Europe. Transfers usually mean a faster and better service.

marno21 · 22-03-2018 9:40pm

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Grand if you live in Dublin. If you are coming in from anywhere outside, there is going to be at least two changes and/or a walk. Would atleast expect a train service conecting to an international Airport, beside or in a Captital City, to be connected to a major terminus in that City.

There will be an interchange with the Heuston and Maynooth lines at Whitworth Road?

Who will need to do these 2 changes?

GerardKeating · 22-03-2018 9:40pm

Lennoxschips wrote: »

Would have been better to put a metro station at Connolly station instead of Tara. Or, extend the metro beyond Swords overland to the Belfast mainline and build an interchange station.

Or Build the Metro as a DART (Heavy Rai)l, branching off the Northern line near Rush. One could then send the Belfast train down this line, taking presure off the existing DART.

donvito99 · 22-03-2018 9:45pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

Or Build the Metro as a DART (Heavy Rai)l, branching off the Northern line near Rush. One could then send the Belfast train down this line, taking presure off the existing DART.

Why in the name of god would we ruin this link and infect it with the Enterprise.

LeinsterDub · 22-03-2018 9:51pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

Or Build the Metro as a DART (Heavy Rai)l, branching off the Northern line near Rush. One could then send the Belfast train down this line, taking presure off the existing DART.

The DART has pathetic frequency. ML will run up to 8 trams for every DART

NTA's 3bn Underground Metro Plan Unveiled

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