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NTA's 3bn Underground Metro Plan Unveiled

  • 22-03-2018 3:09pm
    #1
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 17,099 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cherryghost
    Frequent Support Feeder


    Deets https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0322/949357-nta-unveils-3bn-underground-metro-plan/
    Anne Graham CEO of the NTA said the 26km track should be operational by 2027 if it succeeds in the planning process.

    The line will run from Sandyford in south Dublin to beyond Swords in north Dublin also taking in Dublin Airport.

    It will connect with the Luas Green line at the Charlemont stop in the south city, connecting with the DART at Tara St station, with both Luas lines in O’Connell St and with the Maynooth and Kildare Commuter lines at Glasnevin.

    It would share the track with the Luas Green line from Sandyford to Charlemont where it would go underground until the airport.

    So... not an underground then. Sounds like a terrible idea on paper considering how often Luas runs currently.


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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder
    Moderator


    it says it'll be underground from charlemont to the airport, though? i.e. for nearly all of the northside section and a portion of the southside section.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭ thomasj
    Registered User


    Maynooth/Kildare line connection @ Glasnevin :eek:

    Didn't think there was space for a station?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭ IE 222
    Registered User


    Deets https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0322/949357-nta-unveils-3bn-underground-metro-plan/



    So... not an underground then. Sounds like a terrible idea on paper considering how often Luas runs currently.

    What else did you expect. Its the NTA, which is made up of nothing more than a few office folk looking at how to make the project cheap and attractive. It would be better bore the southern half of the tunnel to Harolds cross or Crumlin than joining with the LUAS which will slow down the Metro.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭ IE 222
    Registered User


    thomasj wrote: »
    Maynooth/Kildare line connection @ Glasnevin :eek:

    Didn't think there was space for a station?

    Im guessing Des Kelly will be getting CPO'd

    Which is probably the only good thing of the whole project as long as both the Docklands and Connolly routes get platforms.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,304 ✭✭✭ cgcsb
    Registered User


    Just to clarify the metro will not be sharing space with luas. Metro services will operate Sandyford-Swords, cannibalizing the existing Green line between Sandyford and Ranelagh.

    The existing Green line will be split up into two:

    Charlemont-Broombridge(then extended to Finglas)

    and Sandyford-Bride's Glen (then extended to Bray).

    The Sandyford-Ranelagh section of existing green luas line will be absorbed into metro with a few upgrades to eliminate junction conflicts


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭ IE 222
    Registered User


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Just to clarify the metro will not be sharing space with luas. Metro services will operate Sandyford-Swords, cannibalizing the existing Green line between Sandyford and Ranelagh.

    The existing Green line will be split up into two:

    Charlemont-Broombridge(then extended to Finglas)

    and Sandyford-Bride's Glen (then extended to Bray).

    The Sandyford-Ranelagh section of existing green luas line will be absorbed into metro with a few upgrades to eliminate junction conflicts

    Thats not what is been reported. They suggest both will use the current line after been upgraded.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    IE 222 wrote: »
    Thats not what is been reported. They suggest both will use the current line after been upgraded.

    From the article. Seems like it could be contradicting.
    The Metro would travel overground from Sandyford to Charlemont where it will go underground to the airport. The Luas Green line would shuttle between Brides Glen and Sandyford and from Charlemont to Broombridge.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 165 ✭✭ ignorance is strength


    IE 222 wrote: »
    What else did you expect. Its the NTA, which is made up of nothing more than a few office folk looking at how to make the project cheap and attractive. It would be better bore the southern half of the tunnel to Harolds cross or Crumlin than joining with the LUAS which will slow down the Metro.

    It's as if you have no idea what you're talking about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭ IE 222
    Registered User


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    From the article. Seems like it could be contradicting.

    Still a needless waste if thats whats going to happen. The city needs an expansion in rail networks not upgrading current ones. Id rather see this money been spent including a new area even if its only extended a mile.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭ Dickerty
    Registered User


    it says it'll be underground from charlemont to the airport, though? i.e. for nearly all of the northside section and a portion of the southside section.

    Magic? Is that really you, from P45?? You were one funny bastarder!!!

    As for this story, I am less than impressed that the DCU station seems to have been moved to Collins Ave junction with Ballymun Rd. I basically live opposite Albert College. I think they'll be stealing the central median all the way down Ballymun Road?


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder
    Moderator


    Dickerty wrote: »
    Magic? Is that really you, from P45?? You were one funny bastarder!!!
    sshhh... the past is another country.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,810 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011
    Moderator


    thomasj wrote: »
    Maynooth/Kildare line connection @ Glasnevin :eek:

    Didn't think there was space for a station?

    Extensive CPO required and planned


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,295 ✭✭✭✭ Mint Sauce
    Registered User


    And no connected stops with the capitals rail terminals. Talk about lack of planning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,933 ✭✭✭ GM228
    Registered User


    IE 222 wrote: »
    Thats not what is been reported. They suggest both will use the current line after been upgraded.

    From the NTA document:-
    The underground section will terminate close to Charlemont Stop on the Luas Green Line, where the metro will connect to, and run southwards on the existing Luas Green Line. The Luas Green Line will be upgraded to metro standard as part of the project.

    It's not clear if LUAS will continue to operate alongside, but it does say:-
    The existing Green Line will be upgraded to facilitate fully segregated Metro services which will include junction modifications where the existing Luas line crosses Dunville Avenue and St. Raphael’s Road. Metrolink services will turn back at Sandyford with Luas services continuing onwards to Brides Glen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭ IE 222
    Registered User


    It's as if you have no idea what you're talking about.

    How did you come to that conclusion?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭ IE 222
    Registered User


    GM228 wrote: »
    From the NTA document:-



    It's not clear if LUAS will continue to operate alongside, but it does say:-

    Thats more confusing. What to they mean fully segregated. Building an additional two lines beside current LUAS lines.


  • Registered Users Posts: 965 ✭✭✭ Rulmeq
    Registered User


    So, does this mean the metro will be using the same gauge as the LUAS, or will it use (Irish) standard gauge? I'm assuming it's going to keep the LUAS (non-Irish) standard gauge, since it doesn't really seem to be planning any integration with existing IE network, but it does seem strange for us to be building so much (non-Irish) standard gauge rail, given that we have our own (Irish) standard gauge.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Mint Sauce wrote: »
    And no connected stops with the capitals rail terminals. Talk about lack of planning.

    There will be a Tara Street stop and a new stop at Whitworth which will be served by IE.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,358 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21
    Moderator


    Rulmeq wrote: »
    So, does this mean the metro will be using the same gauge as the LUAS, or will it use (Irish) standard gauge? I'm assuming it's going to keep the LUAS (non-Irish) standard gauge, since it doesn't really seem to be planning any integration with existing IE network, but it does seem strange for us to be building so much (non-Irish) standard gauge rail, given that we have our own (Irish) standard gauge.
    It'll be using the same gauge as the Luas. The existing Luas lines from Ranelagh-Sandyford will be used as is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭ zom
    Registered User




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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Rulmeq wrote: »
    So, does this mean the metro will be using the same gauge as the LUAS, or will it use (Irish) standard gauge? I'm assuming it's going to keep the LUAS (non-Irish) standard gauge, since it doesn't really seem to be planning any integration with existing IE network, but it does seem strange for us to be building so much (non-Irish) standard gauge rail, given that we have our own (Irish) standard gauge.

    Not weird at all. The Metro will not share any track with any other transport mode such as the Luas or IE trains under the current plans. Standard gauge as the name suggests is used all over the world and is the most common gauge internationally meaning rolling stock will be cheaper as it would not need to be custom built to a particular gauge.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 165 ✭✭ ignorance is strength


    IE 222 wrote: »
    How did you come to that conclusion?

    Amongst others things, because you are still confused by this...
    IE 222 wrote: »
    Thats more confusing. What to they mean fully segregated. Building an additional two lines beside current LUAS lines.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭ IE 222
    Registered User


    Amongst others things, because you are still confused by this...

    And rightly so... it doesn't clarify how its been built.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭ zom
    Registered User


    I am seriously worried about mental state of people who proposed that line location. What makes me even more worried is that these people can spend our REAL money on their sick fantasies making things even worse than they are now.
    But problem is that there is number of sheeple who vote these people every next election without any conscience or consideration what they do and where it will take us...


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk
    Moderator


    IE 222 wrote: »
    Thats not what is been reported. They suggest both will use the current line after been upgraded.

    No it won't. I've just spent the last few hours reading over the documents.

    It still has to be finally decided. But the prefered option completely cuts the Green Line between Charlemont Station and Ranelagh. The Metro will cut onto the Luas track there.

    This is called Option 4(B) Ranelagh In-Line

    Nearly all the other options also partly or fully cut the line.
    IE 222 wrote: »
    Im guessing Des Kelly will be getting CPO'd

    Yes and also the Brian Boru pub and houses in between by the looks of it.
    IE 222 wrote: »
    Still a needless waste if thats whats going to happen. The city needs an expansion in rail networks not upgrading current ones. Id rather see this money been spent including a new area even if its only extended a mile.

    This will allow between a doubling to quadupling of the capacity of the Green line, very relatively very little money. It is a relatively cheap and easy upgrade to an already overcapacity line with great potential for a lot more development along the line.
    Mint Sauce wrote: »
    And no connected stops with the capitals rail terminals. Talk about lack of planning.

    Err, massive new interchange station at Tara St.

    Also massive new interchange station at Whitworth Road, that with connect both the Kildare and Maynoth line with Metro.

    In fact I suspect Hueston and Connlly will both become far less important as commuter stations with Whitworth Road becoming the important one.
    Rulmeq wrote: »
    So, does this mean the metro will be using the same gauge as the LUAS, or will it use (Irish) standard gauge? I'm assuming it's going to keep the LUAS (non-Irish) standard gauge, since it doesn't really seem to be planning any integration with existing IE network, but it does seem strange for us to be building so much (non-Irish) standard gauge rail, given that we have our own (Irish) standard gauge.

    It will use Standard Gauge. Standard Gauge is used all across Europe. It makes it easy to buy off the shelf trains. Irish Gauge is a pain in the ass as it is mostly just in Ireland meaning we have to order customised trains for it, which means it costs more, with no benefit from passenger carriage perspective.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk
    Moderator


    Proposed station at Whitworth Road:

    446244.jpeg

    The plans don't fully show the Irish Rail side, I assume that will come somewhat separaetly as the plans develop.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭ zom
    Registered User


    bk wrote: »
    The plans ...

    Where did you find that ?

    Anyway - using existing lines (and I presume disabling them for a time of construction) is pure nonsense. We should EXPAND public transport network instead of upgrading it. Draught sketch how it should looks like here below:

    metro.jpg

    What Dublin needs dramatically is better connection from West parts of the city (Tallaght, Clondalkin, Lucan, Blanch) - why not to redirect line along Harolds Cross / Templeogue down to Tallaght? Also lot of space in Tallagh would allow for Park & Ride if needed. This should be priority of that development and doing "upgrade" to current green Luas line is just waste of money without any future proof strategy.


    And if you need new line going Bray / Wicklow direction why not to go along N11 and join M50 in Cherrywood to serve growing office / apartment developments there and allowing people who travel from South of Dublin to switch into metro (Park & Ride) ? Although I thing West of Dublin needs new public transport lines more than South.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,772 Lennoxschips
    Registered User


    It's a very Dublin-centric plan. If you are coming down from the north on a commuter train or an Enterprise service and you want to get out to the airport, you have to:
    (1) Get off at Connolly
    (2) Walk to O'Connell St or take the DART to Tara St.
    (3) Change to Metro
    Would have been better to put a metro station at Connolly station instead of Tara. Or, extend the metro beyond Swords overland to the Belfast mainline and build an interchange station.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭ flas
    Registered User


    Na Fianna,the gaa club in glasnevin are not one bit happy,said they got a phone call at 4:30 Friday 16th to say the nta wanted a meeting for last night,where they were told they will lose their front pitch and all their astro pitches as well as club house activities being severely disrupted.. home farm at the back also received the same news... it's where the tunnel boring main depot will be apparently!

    So yeah,going up against the Gaa trying to get this done as quickly as in the plans and for the budget they said will not happen! Fun times ahead

    Edit: link http://www.clgnafianna.com/


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk
    Moderator


    zom wrote: »
    Where did you find that ?

    All here, not massive PDFs ahead:

    http://www.metrolink.ie/#/alignment-options-study/1

    zom wrote: »
    Anyway - using existing lines (and I presume disabling them for a time of construction) is pure nonsense. We should EXPAND public transport network instead of upgrading it. Draught sketch how it should looks like here below:

    What Dublin needs dramatically is better connection from West parts of the city (Tallaght, Clondalkin, Lucan, Blanch) - why not to redirect line along Harolds Cross / Templeogue down to Tallaght? Also lot of space for Park & Ride facility in Tallaght area if needed. This should be priority of that development and doing "upgrade" to current green Luas line is just waste of money without any future proof strategy.


    And if you need new line going Bray / Wicklow direction why not to go along N11 and join M50 in Cherrywood to serve growing office / apartment developments there and allowing people who travel from South of Dublin to switch into metro (Park & Ride) ? Although I thing West of Dublin needs new public transport lines more than South.

    The difference is their plan costs just 100 million, a pittance out of a 3 billion project.

    Your above proposed line would cost at least 1 billion extra. And the line you propose doesn't really have much housing development potential along it, unlike the Green line does (big empty fields).

    I do think we will eventually get an extension like this. But later.
    It's a very Dublin-centric plan. If you are coming down from the north on a commuter train or an Enterprise service and you want to get out to the airport, you have to:
    (1) Get off at Connolly
    (2) Walk to O'Connell St or take the DART to Tara St.
    (3) Change to Metro
    Would have been better to put a metro station at Connolly station instead of Tara. Or, extend the metro beyond Swords overland to the Belfast mainline and build an interchange station.

    Well it is mass transit for Dublin, so that is rightfully the focus.

    Commuter trains on the Northern line will likely be electrified and we likely continue to Tara and south. So you could always get off at Tara and change to the Metro there.

    Enterprise just doesn't carry enough people to matter. I suspect most coming from Belfast are already on Aircoach/Dublin Coach/BE services.

    Though it would be nice if they later extended the Metro to meet the DART line north of Swords. The depot there looks like it is being designed to support through running.

    With Whitworth Road being built and Docklands being increased at Tara becoming an interchange. I suspect Connolly will become far less important as a commuter station.


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