What to do about Walsh Park?

fricatus · 16-03-2018 9:02am #1

It now looks as if the Waterford senior hurlers will have to play their "home" matches in Limerick and Thurles because Walsh Park is not up to the task.

These seem to be the options:

1. Redevelop Walsh Park
Advantages: tradition, location. Disadvantages: tight site, parking (although in reality, there's plenty of parking within 15-20 minutes' walking distance)

2. Develop Fraher Field
Advantages: easier travel for those from the West of the county, plenty of space. Disadvantages: major GAA matches lost to the city, further to travel for the 70% of the county population who live east of Portlaw

3. Carriganore
Advantages: accessible location, parking, east-west compromise, plenty of space. Disadvantages: no atmosphere in city on big match days, no public transport option, may not fit in with WIT's plans as the site (I believe) is not owned by the GAA.

4. Old Waterford Crystal site
Advantages: space, accessible location, possibility for on-site parking, close to old Walsh Park. Disadvantages: The owner may be more interested in developing a business park, per existing plans.

5. Waterside
Advantages: city-centre location, buzz on match days, close to pubs, restaurants and city-centre parking, council-owned I believe. Disadvantages: would need to remove car park entirely and would probably involve relocating part of the Johnstown business centre, congestion on match days, residents might object

I took a look on Google Maps and compared the footprint of Semple Stadium (ours won't need to be bigger...) with that of the Waterside site, and I reckon it would fit. To me, that's the "vision option". Unless we go for a greenfield site elsewhere, there are no other sites in the city that would be big enough.

Thoughts?

Wanderer78 · 16-03-2018 9:12am

I think it's time to move on from Walsh park, it simply is not viable or even sensible to redevelop it now, it has served its purpose, but I do understand the loss this would cause

Max Powers · 16-03-2018 9:56am

One and three are the only options really, ridiculous to be even considering having county stadium in less populated area,i haven't even heard a wild rumor about old crystal site so I don't think there is any inclination of that happening, said that, I'd prefer that location to carriganore.I'm a fan of urban city based stadiums but reality is, with housing all around, objections, etc it will never reach its potential. I'm agree with what Eddie mulligan said, all come together in WIt or some other good location.

Wanderer78 · 16-03-2018 9:58am

Max Powers wrote:

One and three are the only options really, ridiculous to be even considering having county stadium in less populated area,i haven't even heard a wild rumor about old crystal site so I don't think there is any inclination of that happening, said that, I'd prefer that location to carriganore.I'm a fan of urban city based stadiums but reality is, with housing all around, objections, etc it will never reach its potential. I'm agree with what Eddie mulligan said, all come together in WIt or some other good location.

My gut is saying carriganore as well, makes sense for a lot of reasons, major investment required for that though

Deiseen · 16-03-2018 9:58am

fricatus wrote: »

It now looks as if the Waterford senior hurlers will have to play their "home" matches in Limerick and Thurles because Walsh Park is not up to the task.

These seem to be the options:

1. Redevelop Walsh Park
Advantages: tradition, location. Disadvantages: tight site, parking (although in reality, there's plenty of parking within 15-20 minutes' walking distance)

2. Develop Fraher Field
Advantages: easier travel for those from the West of the county, plenty of space. Disadvantages: major GAA matches lost to the city, further to travel for the 70% of the county population who live east of Portlaw

3. Carriganore
Advantages: accessible location, parking, east-west compromise, plenty of space. Disadvantages: no atmosphere in city on big match days, no public transport option, may not fit in with WIT's plans as the site (I believe) is not owned by the GAA.

4. Old Waterford Crystal site
Advantages: space, accessible location, possibility for on-site parking, close to old Walsh Park. Disadvantages: The owner may be more interested in developing a business park, per existing plans.

5. Waterside
Advantages: city-centre location, buzz on match days, close to pubs, restaurants and city-centre parking, council-owned I believe. Disadvantages: would need to remove car park entirely and would probably involve relocating part of the Johnstown business centre, congestion on match days, residents might object

I took a look on Google Maps and compared the footprint of Semple Stadium (ours won't need to be bigger...) with that of the Waterside site, and I reckon it would fit. To me, that's the "vision option". Unless we go for a greenfield site elsewhere, there are no other sites in the city that would be big enough.

Thoughts?

Never thought about Waterside, will check it out on maps, but I think Waterford crystal would be an ideal site. Surely a landswap (with WP) plus some money could be on the cards to make the land available?

Some kind of a detailed statement from the county board is required at this stage.

By saying nothing, people assume they haven't an iota what they are doing and have no plan. Which is what i personally think at the moment. They NEED to say something at this stage.

Deiseen · 16-03-2018 10:00am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Max Powers wrote:

One and three are the only options really, ridiculous to be even considering having county stadium in less populated area,i haven't even heard a wild rumor about old crystal site so I don't think there is any inclination of that happening, said that, I'd prefer that location to carriganore.I'm a fan of urban city based stadiums but reality is, with housing all around, objections, etc it will never reach its potential. I'm agree with what Eddie mulligan said, all come together in WIt or some other good location.

My gut is saying carriganore as well, makes sense for a lot of reasons, major investment required for that though

Never gonna happen, and should not happen. If its out there then even people from Waterford city would need to drive to it. Would fall under the category of "bad planning"

Wanderer78 · 16-03-2018 10:10am

Deiseen wrote:

Never gonna happen, and should not happen. If its out there then even people from Waterford city would need to drive to it. Would fall under the category of "bad planning"

Local people already go to that area to shop, and to participate in sporting events and activities, and they won't go there to watch hurling? I'd be interested to hear your arguments. Due to societal changes, you d be surprised how far people currently travel to conduct such activities. It's really not that far for locals to travel, the road infrastructure required is more or less already there, it virtually does not, and cannot be created at Walsh park, but maybe the crystal site is another option? I understand the historical significance of Walsh park but...

spideyman92 · 16-03-2018 10:14am

Deiseen wrote: »

Never gonna happen, and should not happen. If its out there then even people from Waterford city would need to drive to it. Would fall under the category of "bad planning"

Funnily enough I'm actually working on a stadium design for my final project based in the Waterford Crystal site and based it there instead of Carriganore because of those kind of reasons. It's too far outside the city for City fans and you need other stuff nearby like parking and shops and other amenities around it which there is none of around Carriganore. Bus services that already go past the Cork road and there's loads of parking around the place within walking distance.
For Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Cork GAA have agreements with places around the place to use their parking on match days too.

Deiseen · 16-03-2018 10:28am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Deiseen wrote:

Never gonna happen, and should not happen. If its out there then even people from Waterford city would need to drive to it. Would fall under the category of "bad planning"

Local people already go to that area to shop, and to participate in sporting events and activities, and they won't go there to watch hurling? I'd be interested to hear your arguments. Due to societal changes, you d be surprised how far people currently travel to conduct such activities. It's really not that far for locals to travel, the road infrastructure required is more or less already there, it virtually does not, and cannot be created at Walsh park, but maybe the crystal site is another option? I understand the historical significance of Walsh park but...

Parking and sporting events... Do 30,000 people descend on it in cars over the space of a few hours? Not to mention the people who are attending the other sporting events and doing their shopping at the same time?

It's 6kms outside of the city. It might aswell be in Dungarven at that rate. It would be of zero benefit to town. People would drive to the stadium and then leave with no knock on benefit for shops, pubs and restaurants in town. I don't know how people don't recognize these major drawbacks

Deiseen · 16-03-2018 10:29am

spideyman92 wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Never gonna happen, and should not happen. If its out there then even people from Waterford city would need to drive to it. Would fall under the category of "bad planning"

Funnily enough I'm actually working on a stadium design for my final project based in the Waterford Crystal site and based it there instead of Carriganore because of those kind of reasons. It's too far outside the city for City fans and you need other stuff nearby like parking and shops and other amenities around it which there is none of around Carriganore. Bus services that already go past the Cork road and there's loads of parking around the place within walking distance.
For Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Cork GAA have agreements with places around the place to use their parking on match days too.

Send that onto the County Board right now man!!

Would it be worthwhile contacting Frisby about it? Dunno if their feedback would benefit your project in anyway??

gscully · 16-03-2018 10:38am

Deiseen wrote: »

Never thought about Waterside, will check it out on maps, but I think Waterford crystal would be an ideal site. Surely a landswap (with WP) plus some money could be on the cards to make the land available?

Some kind of a detailed statement from the county board is required at this stage.

By saying nothing, people assume they haven't an iota what they are doing and have no plan. Which is what i personally think at the moment. They NEED to say something at this stage.

If Waterford Crystal site is big enough for a GAA stadium, it is big enough for a concert venue to rival the Point Theatre. There is no big venue in the south and that Dublin venue is not always fit for purpose. U2 had to redesign their set because of the shortcomings of the Point. Getting off topic, but that would be my dream. A multi-purpose arena like London's O2. Concerts, sports, expos etc.

Deiseen · 16-03-2018 10:40am

gscully wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Never thought about Waterside, will check it out on maps, but I think Waterford crystal would be an ideal site. Surely a landswap (with WP) plus some money could be on the cards to make the land available?

Some kind of a detailed statement from the county board is required at this stage.

By saying nothing, people assume they haven't an iota what they are doing and have no plan. Which is what i personally think at the moment. They NEED to say something at this stage.

If Waterford Crystal site is big enough for a GAA stadium, it is big enough for a concert venue to rival the Point Theatre. There is no big venue in the south and that Dublin venue is not always fit for purpose. U2 had to redesign their set because of the shortcomings of the Point. Getting off topic, but that would be my dream. A multi-purpose arena like London's O2. Concerts, sports, expos etc.

This is why the city council and County Board need to get together. To talk about thr possibilities.

cul beag · 16-03-2018 10:44am

Listening to John O Leary on Wens morning when interviewed by Eamonn Keane, Walsh Park is going to be updated and nothing else is being considered. Again the short sightedness of the powers that be is staggering as this should be a once in a lifetime opportunity to do the right thing and develop a proper plan. The Glass factory site is an ideal location but alas, like everyone on that county board we are the laughing stock of the country.
Anyone with a forward vision plan is certainly not welcome to this neck of the woods.

Wanderer78 · 16-03-2018 10:49am

gscully wrote:

If Waterford Crystal site is big enough for a GAA stadium, it is big enough for a concert venue to rival the Point Theatre. There is no big venue in the south and that Dublin venue is not always fit for purpose. U2 had to redesign their set because of the shortcomings of the Point. Getting off topic, but that would be my dream. A multi-purpose arena like London's O2. Concerts, sports, expos etc.

Use to dream of this year's ago, but I suspect that's all it is, Waterford people have been very poor to support music events throughout the years, but this could be changing with current events, maybe this dream is possible in the future, but for the moment, I suspect not. No harm in dreaming though, as sometimes, they come true, but it has to be viable

gscully · 16-03-2018 10:53am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Use to dream of this year's ago, but I suspect that's all it is, Waterford people have been very poor to support music events throughout the years, but this could be changing with current events, maybe this dream is possible in the future, but for the moment, I suspect not. No harm in dreaming though, as sometimes, they come true, but it has to be viable

It's not just about Waterford people though. If the venue is big enough to attract top acts, they'll flock from afar and make it viable.

Mossy Monk · 16-03-2018 10:58am

There's not a hope of a concert venue ever going on the Waterford Crystal site. There are residential areas all around it.

Wanderer78 · 16-03-2018 11:05am

gscully wrote:

It's not just about Waterford people though. If the venue is big enough to attract top acts, they'll flock from afar and make it viable.

This isn't a certainty, it's easy to get carried away with dreams, happens me all the time, but I'd imagine the already existing businesses and business owners from this industry are constantly looking for opportunities around the country for such investments, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in Waterford in this regard, i.e. something is missing, and we must not forget, 'build it, and they will come', isn't necessarily always true

fargojones123 · 16-03-2018 11:14am

gscully wrote: »

It's not just about Waterford people though. If the venue is big enough to attract top acts, they'll flock from afar and make it viable.

Anyone else remember South?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/tramore-s-new-music-venue-set-to-rival-capital-1.334765

fargojones123 · 16-03-2018 11:16am

Updating Walsh Park is a bad idea, there is no parking for one thing and the roads around it clearly aren't designed for the large volumes of traffic. The old Waterford Crystal site would be better and it isn't that far from Walsh Park

Deiseen · 16-03-2018 11:49am

fargojones123 wrote: »

Updating Walsh Park is a bad idea, there is no parking for one thing and the roads around it clearly aren't designed for the large volumes of traffic. The old Waterford Crystal site would be better and it isn't that far from Walsh Park

Lots of drawbacks to Walsh Park but this parking one is a joke.

Has anyone actually been to a game in other counties? Theres not a single one that has decent parking facilities. I've walked 40+ minutes on occasion to get to Stadiums. No one mentions parking in these places.

deiseach · 16-03-2018 11:55am

Deiseen wrote: »

Lots of drawbacks to Walsh Park but this parking one is a joke.

Has anyone actually been to a game in other counties? Theres not a single one that has decent parking facilities. I've walked 40+ minutes on occasion to get to Stadiums. No one mentions parking in these places.

There are two GAA pitches that are closer to Walsh Park than the ones that were successfully used for parking at Páirc Uí Chaoimh last year.

reni10 · 16-03-2018 12:35pm

There is no issue with parking if it is marshalled correctly and the GAA pay a small amount of money to have a marshall on each street around the stadium to prevent people from parking as they do around the cork and other stadiums!

Just build a 20,000 stadium something like in Tullamore and then all will be fine!

Where is the official statement from the county board on what is actually happening?

Wanderer78 · 16-03-2018 12:39pm

reni10 wrote: »

There is no issue with parking if it is marshalled correctly and the GAA pay a small amount of money to have a marshall on each street around the stadium to prevent people from parking as they do around the cork and other stadiums!

Just build a 20,000 stadium something like in Tullamore and then all will be fine!

Where is the official statement from the county board on what is actually happening?

i suspect the locals have a very different view on this

spideyman92 · 16-03-2018 12:46pm

Deiseen wrote: »

Send that onto the County Board right now man!!

Would it be worthwhile contacting Frisby about it? Dunno if their feedback would benefit your project in anyway??

I'm really happy with how the project is going but I dunno if it's at a stage where it's worth showing it off to people outside of lecturers and guest critics yet. I'm not sure about showing off unfinished work haha. Plus it just seems like wishful thinking when they seem so intent on sticking with Walsh Park. Anything on the glass factory site would probably cost a lot of money just for remediation work alone to deal with contamination in the ground from the factory. And that's before you even start the stadium.

As for Frisby, I think he has something of his own in mind for the site. There was an article around last September I think about him appealing a decision for the Waterford Crystal site to be included on the list of vacant sites. Cheers though.

Deiseen · 16-03-2018 1:08pm

spideyman92 wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Send that onto the County Board right now man!!

Would it be worthwhile contacting Frisby about it? Dunno if their feedback would benefit your project in anyway??

I'm really happy with how the project is going but I dunno if it's at a stage where it's worth showing it off to people outside of lecturers and guest critics yet. I'm not sure about showing off unfinished work haha. Plus it just seems like wishful thinking when they seem so intent on sticking with Walsh Park. Anything on the glass factory site would probably cost a lot of money just for remediation work alone to deal with contamination in the ground from the factory. And that's before you even start the stadium.

As for Frisby, I think he has something of his own in mind for the site. There was an article around last September I think about him appealing a decision for the Waterford Crystal site to be included on the list of vacant sites. Cheers though.

Wasn't sure how far along you were with it. I saw the same article about frisby and it seems the site is causing him a bit of pain. Might relieve that pain if he sells it to Waterford GAA...

But noted on the remedial work and contamination. Do you know what the current level of contamination is? Thought all of it/most was dealt with?

Deiseen · 16-03-2018 1:10pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

reni10 wrote: »

There is no issue with parking if it is marshalled correctly and the GAA pay a small amount of money to have a marshall on each street around the stadium to prevent people from parking as they do around the cork and other stadiums!

Just build a 20,000 stadium something like in Tullamore and then all will be fine!

Where is the official statement from the county board on what is actually happening?

i suspect the locals have a very different view on this

Locals have said they are not against an upgrade. They just want correct systems in place to stop people blocking roads/driveways and allow them access, within reason, on match days.

Deiseen · 16-03-2018 1:11pm

deiseach wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Lots of drawbacks to Walsh Park but this parking one is a joke.

Has anyone actually been to a game in other counties? Theres not a single one that has decent parking facilities. I've walked 40+ minutes on occasion to get to Stadiums. No one mentions parking in these places.

There are two GAA pitches that are closer to Walsh Park than the ones that were successfully used for parking at Páirc Uí Chaoimh last year.

Possibly more even, roanmore, dls, mount sion, st. Pauls, erins own...

Think of the money generated for these clubs aswell if they charged €5 a pop for a car.

Wanderer78 · 16-03-2018 1:12pm

Deiseen wrote: »

Locals have said they are not against an upgrade. They just want correct systems in place to stop people blocking roads/driveways and allow them access, within reason, on match days.

has there actually been a democratic process involved in gaining this understanding, i,e. has there actually been a survey of the locals done to confirm this? thank you

deiseach · 16-03-2018 1:27pm

reni10 wrote: »

There is no issue with parking if it is marshalled correctly and the GAA pay a small amount of money to have a marshall on each street around the stadium to prevent people from parking as they do around the cork and other stadiums!

Just build a 20,000 stadium something like in Tullamore and then all will be fine!

Where is the official statement from the county board on what is actually happening?

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i suspect the locals have a very different view on this

I notice you don't highlight the 'if it is marshalled correctly' part of reni10's post. I'm sure the locals around the Gaelic Grounds would rather not have another match on their doorstep, will we be canvassing their opinions on the new venue for the Waterford-Tipp match?

Dunmoreroader · 16-03-2018 1:30pm

Ideal would be a redeveloped Walsh Park with more space to make it big enough and put in the necessary ancillary services i.e. like what they did in Thomond Park Limerick or Anfield Liverpool - buy out all the houses on the adjoining land i.e. Griffiths Place and Ard na Greinne, approx. 42 properties, €100K a pop i.e. €4.2M - would be a good start!:)

Wanderer78 · 16-03-2018 1:34pm

deiseach wrote: »

I notice you don't highlight the 'if it is marshalled correctly' part of reni10's post. I'm sure the locals around the Gaelic Grounds would rather not have another match on their doorstep, will we be canvassing their opinions on the new venue for the Waterford-Tipp match?

to be honest, walsh park area looks like bedlam during match time, i dont live in the area, but i suspect this is pissing off the locals, they deserve to be listened to. if there was a survey done to hear their concerns, and if from that survey it was found control measures such as marshaling etc would ease or even dealing with their concerns, id be on board, but at the moment, im not.

deiseach · 16-03-2018 1:35pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

to be honest, walsh park area looks like bedlam during match time, i dont live in the area, but i suspect this is pissing off the locals, they deserve to be listened to. if there was a survey done to hear their concerns, and if from that survey it was found control measures such as marshaling etc would ease or even dealing with their concerns, id be on board, but at the moment, im not.

And if they object, then what?

Wanderer78 · 16-03-2018 1:36pm

deiseach wrote: »

And if they object, then what?

we go through a democratic process of trying to resolve it

deiseach · 16-03-2018 1:43pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

we go through a democratic process of trying to resolve it

Do you believe the locals should have a veto over the staging of events in Walsh Park?

Wanderer78 · 16-03-2018 1:49pm

deiseach wrote: »

Do you believe the locals should have a veto over the staging of events in Walsh Park?

veto or right to voice their concerns? try put yourself in their shoes for a moment, how would you feel if you were effectively forced from your home, to move elsewhere, the house in which you grew up in, the house in which you raised a family etc? the term 'bad planning' was mentioned previously in the tread, was the bad planning to allow the building of residential buildings in close proximity to a stadium the actual 'bad planning', if so, what do we do about this now, as moving homes and families isnt black or white, as has been explained previously in places such as liverpool etc. we call ourselves a democracy, but are we really?

deiseach · 16-03-2018 2:04pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

veto or right to voice their concerns? try put yourself in their shoes for a moment, how would you feel if you were effectively forced from your home, to move elsewhere, the house in which you grew up in, the house in which you raised a family etc? the term 'bad planning' was mentioned previously in the tread, was the bad planning to allow the building of residential buildings in close proximity to a stadium the actual 'bad planning', if so, what do we do about this now, as moving homes and families isnt black or white, as has been explained previously in places such as liverpool etc. we call ourselves a democracy, but are we really?

I'm well aware of what went on in Liverpool (David Conn did good work on it in the Guardian, people can read about it here). What that has to do with the issue of parking around Walsh Park...

Wanderer78 · 16-03-2018 2:08pm

deiseach wrote: »

I'm well aware of what went on in Liverpool (David Conn did good work on it in the Guardian, people can read about it here). What that has to do with the issue of parking around Walsh Park...

my point being, we ve built residential areas surrounding such facilitates, and the two effectively arent compatible for various different reasons, some mentioned already in the thread. this must be considered for all such situations going forward, and necessary changes made to prevent it again.

PTH2009 · 16-03-2018 3:06pm

Croke Park and residents- they dont have a great relationship when it comes to bending the rules (which what were seeing now with the proposed 4th concert happening this year)

I think sell Walsh park and move elsewhere, best for development. Waterford and Munster dont need another massive stadium and 18,000- 20,000 seater would be well enough. Club GAA in Waterford is not really supported much and when the chips are down the Waterford hurlers are not really supported much

Ideal would be the Waterford Crystal site as the area is used to hosting matches and events with the RSC a min down the road and town is not a far walk. They could knock the place behind PC world and use that for parking ??

Would the RSC with a lot of work done (pitch size etc) be an option ???

spideyman92 · 16-03-2018 3:56pm

Deiseen wrote: »

Wasn't sure how far along you were with it. I saw the same article about frisby and it seems the site is causing him a bit of pain. Might relieve that pain if he sells it to Waterford GAA...

But noted on the remedial work and contamination. Do you know what the current level of contamination is? Thought all of it/most was dealt with?

I'm pretty far along with it in terms of college work for the semester but in the real world a project of this scale would have more people involved in the process than just myself and would go on a lot longer. My plans involve turning it into a stadium park that gives the residents in the area an amenity to use without the stadium being overly dominant. I think a big project like this should give back more everyday use than just a stadium that's used a few times a year.

Not sure about what the levels of contamination are like to be honest. For those issues, we can basically ignore them but move forward with acknowledgement that that kind of work would be necessary.

Wanderer78 · 16-03-2018 4:06pm

spideyman92 wrote: »

I'm pretty far along with it in terms of college work for the semester but in the real world a project of this scale would have more people involved in the process than just myself and would go on a lot longer. My plans involve turning it into a stadium park that gives the residents in the area an amenity to use without the stadium being overly dominant. I think a big project like this should give back more everyday use than just a stadium that's used a few times a year.

Not sure about what the levels of contamination are like to be honest. For those issues, we can basically ignore them but move forward with acknowledgement that that kind of work would be necessary.

ive worked with hazardous chemicals, theyre generally very expensive and complex to deal with, particularly during the remediation process. this could be a show stopper for such a project, i use to work for a company that used hazardous chemicals, a major change of the operation was proposed, studies were done, the hazardous chemicals put a stop to the project being carried out. that operation is still operating under the same conditions, and that was many years ago. the same chemicals were used during the process at the crystal plant, dodgy stuff, and i believe even more dangerous chemicals and materials were used, so i suspect, remediation would cost a fortune for that site.

16-03-2018 4:27pm

Some lovely ideas here but it has been stated over and over again that Walsh Park is the only viable option.

Someone here suggested selling walsh park and developing an 18-20k stadium, why do that when the plan is to develop 18k in walsh park???

In a perfect world I would like to see the gaa form partnerships with the council, fai and irfu. Move the running track in the rsc and construct a 20-25k stadium at the rsc location, a multi sports venue centrally located.

But that suggestion is in a perfect world, whats on the table is Walsh Park so how do we go about making it work.

Parking is always the main concern so here's the solution....

Half kilometer radius around walsh park where no parking or traffic is allowed with the exception of residents.

Use WIT, RSC, Mount Sion, Roanmore, De La Salle GAA grounds, St Pauls School, millars marsh, the waterside, the Quays, old waterford crystal sports and factory site for parking.

All those parking facilities are less than a 2km walk from the ground. I often walk 3-5km in Thurlus and other venues to attend a game.

Great revenue opportunity for all those locations above as well as the local economy, shops bars restaurants etc....

If parking is encouraged in millars marsh/gas works then use the applemarket as a fanzone and pre game drinks area.

I do believe to make walsh park work it needs a complete redevlopment including knocking and rebuilding a much better stand. Proper terracing with roofing on the remaining three sides. 18k should be ample for Waterford, will be ample come 2040 when the cities population is expected to reach 80k?

Probably not but at present it is the only option on the table.

Harry Palmr · 16-03-2018 6:06pm

The Walsh Park footprint is far too small to develop beyond it's current capacity. The idea it could hold 18,000 is nuts.

PTH2009 · 16-03-2018 6:10pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The Walsh Park footprint is far too small to develop beyond it's current capacity. The idea it could hold 18,000 is nuts.

level the whole place including dressing rooms and rebuilt from strach
Knock the stand and build a two tiered one in its place, and have bucket seats on the terrace and maybe small standing room behind the 2 goals. Put the dressing rooms in the new stand

I imagine this plan would never work cause of the small area around it ?

south · 16-03-2018 6:28pm

Student accommodation going into at least part of the former crystal site. Most likely the office block. Still plenty of room left to build on as it's a huge site but I can't see it ever happening. Walsh park will be redeveloped as it will work out the cheapest option.

Harry Palmr · 16-03-2018 6:46pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

level the whole place including dressing rooms and rebuilt from strach
Knock the stand and build a two tiered one in its place, and have bucket seats on the terrace and maybe small standing room behind the 2 goals. Put the dressing rooms in the new stand

I imagine this plan would never work cause of the small area around it ?

A two tier stand would have to be of the straight up design (ie same footprint but twice as high with one level built on top of the other) or the second tier cantilevered back over Slievekeale Road which would be a bit of a feature in it's own right. I see no scope for a structure on the east side due to light and overseeing issues, the north side is obviously too narrow unless about 15 back gardens were CPO'd which is unlikely if the GAA don't want to get run out of town. The west side maybe could take a stand but you'd get more in with a simple open terrace.

Johnboy1951 · 16-03-2018 7:14pm

I would opt for a new build on a greenfield site in close proximity to the motorway, thus giving proper vehicular access for all.
In addition, for city residents, a special bus service could easily be run from designated pick up areas.

How many who attend games (of any code) around the country spend any great time in the stadium locality?
Most seem determined to exit the area as soon as reasonable.
That traffic congestion causes a number to wait .... often taking sustenance during the wait ..... is not the ideal.
People who want to get back on the road ASAP should, ideally, have the opportunity to do so.

As regards the stadium itself.
It should be built with multiple uses in mind, so that the most can be made of it into the future.
Is there any great reason the site should not have more than one pitch for instance?
What about concession 'lock-ups'?
Facilities for concerts ...... and other uses.

With a greenfield site and without the limitations of the present Walsh Park site, much more could be achieved, and it could be future-proofed in so far as possible.

Putting sticking plaster on Walsh Park is only going to repeat what has been done over the past decades.

gw80 · 16-03-2018 7:17pm

What about the old iron foundry site in bilberry, or are you running into contamination issues aswell

Harry Palmr · 16-03-2018 7:25pm

Access would be murder! It's a crappy winding road when empty imagine thousands trying to access it in one go.

PTH2009 · 16-03-2018 7:28pm

how do we knw this new championship structure will last more than its trial time (i think its for 2018/19 and 20) and by the time we build or redevelop Walsh Park there will be a new structure in with Neutral venues for games ???. League Hurling and Football wont attract massive crowds

16-03-2018 7:40pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

how do we knw this new championship structure will last more than its trial time (i think its for 2018/19 and 20) and by the time we build or redevelop Walsh Park there will be a new structure in with Neutral venues for games ???. League Hurling and Football wont attract massive crowds

Even if the structure is gone you can still hold home/away games.

Cork, Tipperary

Tipperary, Limerick

Cork, Kerry football

All currently run with home and away. The teams above haven't played a neutral venue in years. They roatate each time they meet.

Harry Palmr · 16-03-2018 7:43pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

how do we knw this new championship structure will last more than its trial time (i think its for 2018/19 and 20) and by the time we build or redevelop Walsh Park there will be a new structure in with Neutral venues for games ???. League Hurling and Football wont attract massive crowds

Probably why the GAA will use the cheapest upgrade possible but also why the whole thing should be taken out of their hands so a proper multi-purpose stadium could be built which would be good for the next 50 years.

What to do about Walsh Park?

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