What to do about Walsh Park?

deiseach

Wanderer78 wrote: »

to be honest, walsh park area looks like bedlam during match time, i dont live in the area, but i suspect this is pissing off the locals, they deserve to be listened to. if there was a survey done to hear their concerns, and if from that survey it was found control measures such as marshaling etc would ease or even dealing with their concerns, id be on board, but at the moment, im not.

And if they object, then what?

Wanderer78

deiseach wrote: »

And if they object, then what?

we go through a democratic process of trying to resolve it

deiseach

Wanderer78 wrote: »

we go through a democratic process of trying to resolve it

Do you believe the locals should have a veto over the staging of events in Walsh Park?

Wanderer78

deiseach wrote: »

Do you believe the locals should have a veto over the staging of events in Walsh Park?

veto or right to voice their concerns? try put yourself in their shoes for a moment, how would you feel if you were effectively forced from your home, to move elsewhere, the house in which you grew up in, the house in which you raised a family etc? the term 'bad planning' was mentioned previously in the tread, was the bad planning to allow the building of residential buildings in close proximity to a stadium the actual 'bad planning', if so, what do we do about this now, as moving homes and families isnt black or white, as has been explained previously in places such as liverpool etc. we call ourselves a democracy, but are we really?

deiseach

Wanderer78 wrote: »

veto or right to voice their concerns? try put yourself in their shoes for a moment, how would you feel if you were effectively forced from your home, to move elsewhere, the house in which you grew up in, the house in which you raised a family etc? the term 'bad planning' was mentioned previously in the tread, was the bad planning to allow the building of residential buildings in close proximity to a stadium the actual 'bad planning', if so, what do we do about this now, as moving homes and families isnt black or white, as has been explained previously in places such as liverpool etc. we call ourselves a democracy, but are we really?

I'm well aware of what went on in Liverpool (David Conn did good work on it in the Guardian, people can read about it here). What that has to do with the issue of parking around Walsh Park...

Wanderer78

deiseach wrote: »

I'm well aware of what went on in Liverpool (David Conn did good work on it in the Guardian, people can read about it here). What that has to do with the issue of parking around Walsh Park...

my point being, we ve built residential areas surrounding such facilitates, and the two effectively arent compatible for various different reasons, some mentioned already in the thread. this must be considered for all such situations going forward, and necessary changes made to prevent it again.

PTH2009

Croke Park and residents- they dont have a great relationship when it comes to bending the rules (which what were seeing now with the proposed 4th concert happening this year)

I think sell Walsh park and move elsewhere, best for development. Waterford and Munster dont need another massive stadium and 18,000- 20,000 seater would be well enough. Club GAA in Waterford is not really supported much and when the chips are down the Waterford hurlers are not really supported much

Ideal would be the Waterford Crystal site as the area is used to hosting matches and events with the RSC a min down the road and town is not a far walk. They could knock the place behind PC world and use that for parking ??

Would the RSC with a lot of work done (pitch size etc) be an option ???

spideyman92

Deiseen wrote: »

Wasn't sure how far along you were with it. I saw the same article about frisby and it seems the site is causing him a bit of pain. Might relieve that pain if he sells it to Waterford GAA...

But noted on the remedial work and contamination. Do you know what the current level of contamination is? Thought all of it/most was dealt with?

I'm pretty far along with it in terms of college work for the semester but in the real world a project of this scale would have more people involved in the process than just myself and would go on a lot longer. My plans involve turning it into a stadium park that gives the residents in the area an amenity to use without the stadium being overly dominant. I think a big project like this should give back more everyday use than just a stadium that's used a few times a year.

Not sure about what the levels of contamination are like to be honest. For those issues, we can basically ignore them but move forward with acknowledgement that that kind of work would be necessary.

Wanderer78

spideyman92 wrote: »

I'm pretty far along with it in terms of college work for the semester but in the real world a project of this scale would have more people involved in the process than just myself and would go on a lot longer. My plans involve turning it into a stadium park that gives the residents in the area an amenity to use without the stadium being overly dominant. I think a big project like this should give back more everyday use than just a stadium that's used a few times a year.

Not sure about what the levels of contamination are like to be honest. For those issues, we can basically ignore them but move forward with acknowledgement that that kind of work would be necessary.

ive worked with hazardous chemicals, theyre generally very expensive and complex to deal with, particularly during the remediation process. this could be a show stopper for such a project, i use to work for a company that used hazardous chemicals, a major change of the operation was proposed, studies were done, the hazardous chemicals put a stop to the project being carried out. that operation is still operating under the same conditions, and that was many years ago. the same chemicals were used during the process at the crystal plant, dodgy stuff, and i believe even more dangerous chemicals and materials were used, so i suspect, remediation would cost a fortune for that site.

914

Some lovely ideas here but it has been stated over and over again that Walsh Park is the only viable option.

Someone here suggested selling walsh park and developing an 18-20k stadium, why do that when the plan is to develop 18k in walsh park???

In a perfect world I would like to see the gaa form partnerships with the council, fai and irfu. Move the running track in the rsc and construct a 20-25k stadium at the rsc location, a multi sports venue centrally located.

But that suggestion is in a perfect world, whats on the table is Walsh Park so how do we go about making it work.

Parking is always the main concern so here's the solution....

Half kilometer radius around walsh park where no parking or traffic is allowed with the exception of residents.

Use WIT, RSC, Mount Sion, Roanmore, De La Salle GAA grounds, St Pauls School, millars marsh, the waterside, the Quays, old waterford crystal sports and factory site for parking.

All those parking facilities are less than a 2km walk from the ground. I often walk 3-5km in Thurlus and other venues to attend a game.

Great revenue opportunity for all those locations above as well as the local economy, shops bars restaurants etc....

If parking is encouraged in millars marsh/gas works then use the applemarket as a fanzone and pre game drinks area.

I do believe to make walsh park work it needs a complete redevlopment including knocking and rebuilding a much better stand. Proper terracing with roofing on the remaining three sides. 18k should be ample for Waterford, will be ample come 2040 when the cities population is expected to reach 80k?

Probably not but at present it is the only option on the table.

Harry Palmr

The Walsh Park footprint is far too small to develop beyond it's current capacity. The idea it could hold 18,000 is nuts.

PTH2009

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The Walsh Park footprint is far too small to develop beyond it's current capacity. The idea it could hold 18,000 is nuts.

level the whole place including dressing rooms and rebuilt from strach
Knock the stand and build a two tiered one in its place, and have bucket seats on the terrace and maybe small standing room behind the 2 goals. Put the dressing rooms in the new stand

I imagine this plan would never work cause of the small area around it ?

south

Student accommodation going into at least part of the former crystal site. Most likely the office block. Still plenty of room left to build on as it's a huge site but I can't see it ever happening. Walsh park will be redeveloped as it will work out the cheapest option.

Harry Palmr

PTH2009 wrote: »

level the whole place including dressing rooms and rebuilt from strach
Knock the stand and build a two tiered one in its place, and have bucket seats on the terrace and maybe small standing room behind the 2 goals. Put the dressing rooms in the new stand

I imagine this plan would never work cause of the small area around it ?

A two tier stand would have to be of the straight up design (ie same footprint but twice as high with one level built on top of the other) or the second tier cantilevered back over Slievekeale Road which would be a bit of a feature in it's own right. I see no scope for a structure on the east side due to light and overseeing issues, the north side is obviously too narrow unless about 15 back gardens were CPO'd which is unlikely if the GAA don't want to get run out of town. The west side maybe could take a stand but you'd get more in with a simple open terrace.

Johnboy1951

I would opt for a new build on a greenfield site in close proximity to the motorway, thus giving proper vehicular access for all.
In addition, for city residents, a special bus service could easily be run from designated pick up areas.

How many who attend games (of any code) around the country spend any great time in the stadium locality?
Most seem determined to exit the area as soon as reasonable.
That traffic congestion causes a number to wait .... often taking sustenance during the wait ..... is not the ideal.
People who want to get back on the road ASAP should, ideally, have the opportunity to do so.

As regards the stadium itself.
It should be built with multiple uses in mind, so that the most can be made of it into the future.
Is there any great reason the site should not have more than one pitch for instance?
What about concession 'lock-ups'?
Facilities for concerts ...... and other uses.

With a greenfield site and without the limitations of the present Walsh Park site, much more could be achieved, and it could be future-proofed in so far as possible.

Putting sticking plaster on Walsh Park is only going to repeat what has been done over the past decades.

gw80

What about the old iron foundry site in bilberry, or are you running into contamination issues aswell

Harry Palmr

Access would be murder! It's a crappy winding road when empty imagine thousands trying to access it in one go.

PTH2009

how do we knw this new championship structure will last more than its trial time (i think its for 2018/19 and 20) and by the time we build or redevelop Walsh Park there will be a new structure in with Neutral venues for games ???. League Hurling and Football wont attract massive crowds

914

PTH2009 wrote: »

how do we knw this new championship structure will last more than its trial time (i think its for 2018/19 and 20) and by the time we build or redevelop Walsh Park there will be a new structure in with Neutral venues for games ???. League Hurling and Football wont attract massive crowds

Even if the structure is gone you can still hold home/away games.

Cork, Tipperary

Tipperary, Limerick

Cork, Kerry football

All currently run with home and away. The teams above haven't played a neutral venue in years. They roatate each time they meet.

Harry Palmr

PTH2009 wrote: »

how do we knw this new championship structure will last more than its trial time (i think its for 2018/19 and 20) and by the time we build or redevelop Walsh Park there will be a new structure in with Neutral venues for games ???. League Hurling and Football wont attract massive crowds

Probably why the GAA will use the cheapest upgrade possible but also why the whole thing should be taken out of their hands so a proper multi-purpose stadium could be built which would be good for the next 50 years.

914

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The Walsh Park footprint is far too small to develop beyond it's current capacity. The idea it could hold 18,000 is nuts.

A bit of smart planning and vision and it could hold 18k. I guess we'll find out soon enough when the plans are released.

Deiseen

If walsh park is the only show in town then they need to buy parts of peoples gardens in order to expand.

Also People have started mentioning it, but if we build a 20k stadium then that will just about do us for now.

What about when Waterford city grows to 85k and the teams we are also playing against have had large population growths? We are then just going to end up with Walsh Park 2.0 in 2040.

It needs to be at least 25k. A roof would also be nice.

Road-Hog

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Ideal would be a redeveloped Walsh Park with more space to make it big enough and put in the necessary ancillary services i.e. like what they did in Thomond Park Limerick or Anfield Liverpool - buy out all the houses on the adjoining land i.e. Griffiths Place and Ard na Greinne, approx. 42 properties, €100K a pop i.e. €4.2M - would be a good start!:)

I would agree with you there but doubt if €4.2m would be enough...what do you do with those who won’t sell....don’t think GAA can go through a CPO process...! The extra land achieved if buying up those House was possible would make a 30,000 stadium possible plus there would probably be scope to widen and lengthen the pitch. Not sure how Walsh parks size as a pitch compares to Croke park but it always looks small on tv when compared to other grounds

Road-Hog

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ive worked with hazardous chemicals, theyre generally very expensive and complex to deal with, particularly during the remediation process. this could be a show stopper for such a project, i use to work for a company that used hazardous chemicals, a major change of the operation was proposed, studies were done, the hazardous chemicals put a stop to the project being carried out. that operation is still operating under the same conditions, and that was many years ago. the same chemicals were used during the process at the crystal plant, dodgy stuff, and i believe even more dangerous chemicals and materials were used, so i suspect, remediation would cost a fortune for that site.

I think Bord Gais spent up to €8m on cleaning up the old gasworks site in waterside around ten years ago...and its only a fraction of the size of the old crystal site so the possibility of the Gaa purchasing and ‘cleaning up’ the old crystal site is kind of ‘fantasy’ stuff. Think it’s 38 acres in total.

Deiseen

Road-Hog wrote: »

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Ideal would be a redeveloped Walsh Park with more space to make it big enough and put in the necessary ancillary services i.e. like what they did in Thomond Park Limerick or Anfield Liverpool - buy out all the houses on the adjoining land i.e. Griffiths Place and Ard na Greinne, approx. 42 properties, €100K a pop i.e. €4.2M - would be a good start!:)

I would agree with you there but doubt if €4.2m would be enough...what do you do with those who won’t sell....don’t think GAA can go through a CPO process...! The extra land achieved if buying up those House was possible would make a 30,000 stadium possible plus there would probably be scope to widen and lengthen the pitch. Not sure how Walsh parks size as a pitch compares to Croke park but it always looks small on tv when compared to other grounds

Pitch sizes not that much bigger tbh. The camera angles in CP give it the impression of it being huge. Wateford have a crappy bit of scaffolding, so its very close to the ground giving the appearance of a tiny pitch.

Wanderer78

Road-Hog wrote: »

I think Bord Gais spent up to €8m on cleaning up the old gasworks site in waterside around ten years ago...and its only a fraction of the size of the old crystal site so the possibility of the Gaa purchasing and ‘cleaning up’ the old crystal site is kind of ‘fantasy’ stuff. Think it’s 38 acres in total.

jesus, thats a hefty bill, yea remediation costs are madness, and i suspect that site is hiding some serious nasties, i know lads that worked with the hazardous chemicals in there, environmental standards werent the best!

IanVW

Any way Paddy joe was speaking on wlr earlier so it is going to be walsh park thats getting the refurb to an 18,500 stadium and thats it so everything any of these other ideas etc wont be happening

Harry Palmr

The two fields at Cleaboy (Roanmore) could host a low slung stadium with graduated stands, the locals would complain but it would be an easy site to develop

Deiseen

IanVW wrote: »

Any way Paddy joe was speaking on wlr earlier so it is going to be walsh park thats getting the refurb to an 18,500 stadium and thats it so everything any of these other ideas etc wont be happening

Any other details?

Hoffmans

Can we not just hand it over to the sheiks?