Race Saturation point

Testosterscone · 07-03-2018 9:10pm #1

Looking at the race calendar this year is it becoming untenable?

Few examples;

7th July - Roscommon 10
14th July - Irish Road Runner 10 mile
August 12th - Monaghan 10
August 19th - Kilcock 10 mile
August 26th - Frank Duffy 10 mile

Also seeing the way the K Club 10k is bouncing around the calendar (moved from clashing with Dunboyne 4 mile to clashing with Clontarf 10 mile.

Is this killing competitive racing in this country through the proliferation of fields?

Edit: Mullingar 10 now been moved to 28th of July as well :rolleyes:

jamule · 07-03-2018 9:23pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

Looking at the race calendar this year is it becoming untenable?

Few examples;

7th July - Roscommon 10
14th July - Irish Road Runner 10 mile
August 12th - Monaghan 10
August 19th - Kilcock 10 mile
August 26th - Frank Duffy 10 mile

Also seeing the way the K Club 10k is bouncing around the calendar (moved from clashing with Dunboyne 4 mile to clashing with Clontarf 10 mile.

Is this killing competitive racing in this country through the proliferation of fields?

And your missing the blaney 10m around the 20th of july. Its getting a bit out of hand. The bubble will have to burst.

dublin runner · 07-03-2018 9:33pm

All depends on how we view a race; how we judge it's level of 'success'. Most people, including organisers, simply look at the bottom line - participation levels. That is obviously very understandable as races live and die by numbers and entry fees.

Does race saturation kill competition? By and large, yes. Does Ireland, much like the GAA, need a Master Fixture Plan, properly implemented? Absolutely. There is no logic to the calendar in the main. Take a look at the calendar, so many races clash (expect a lot more after the recent weather) but on the otherhand, there are so many weeks of very little activity.

10 Milers just happen to be in vogue at the moment - so 2018!

Testosterscone · 07-03-2018 9:35pm

dublin runner wrote: »

10 Milers just happen to be in vogue at the moment - so 2018!

kinda of ironic when what was once regarded as one of the best road races in Europe went by the wayside only last year.

average_runner · 07-03-2018 9:40pm

Really sad to see dunboyne 4 miler and 10k club clashing.

Never heard of kilcock 10 miler, any good?

dublin runner · 07-03-2018 9:44pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

kinda of ironic when what was once regarded as one of the best road races in Europe went by the wayside only last year.

Interestingly I think that reignited the 10 mile road race scene. It probably was the catalyst behind some of the recently new 10 mile races announced.

2019: The 8km race is going to be so 'on point' next year.....it's sooooo due a comeback!! So 2019.....

jamule · 07-03-2018 9:55pm

dublin runner wrote: »

Interestingly I think that reignited the 10 mile road race scene. It probably was the catalyst behind some of the recently new 10 mile races announced.

2019: The 8km race is going to be so 'on point' next year.....it's sooooo due a comeback!! So 2019.....

Not sure about that, was thinking the next big thing will be 16k

Testosterscone · 07-03-2018 10:04pm

average_runner wrote: »

Really sad to see dunboyne 4 miler and 10k club clashing.

Never heard of kilcock 10 miler, any good?

They aren't. K Club been moved to 31st now (Clashes with Clontarf 10 mile)

Organised by St. Coca's AFAIK

OOnegative · 07-03-2018 10:06pm

dublin runner wrote: »

Interestingly I think that reignited the 10 mile road race scene. It probably was the catalyst behind some of the recently new 10 mile races announced.

2019: The 8km race is going to be so 'on point' next year.....it's sooooo due a comeback!! So 2019.....

No it will just get like continental Europe instead,15km are all the rage here by looks of things!!!

Bananaleaf · 07-03-2018 11:16pm

average_runner wrote: »

Never heard of kilcock 10 miler, any good?

Kilcock 10 mile is being organised by St Coca's.

It's a new one - first year of it this year.

I've done their 5k in June and that was really good so looking forward to this one. AII permit too.

I don't know about all the new emerging road races being a bad thing though. I think it's a good thing. None of the heavy-hitters would ever really clash I'd imagine and I guess that new locations and new routes can be nice for those of us who might get a bit bored returning to the same routes year on year.

I would think that in terms of it killing competition, maybe it won't. Maybe what it might do is spread it out a bit more, thus increasing some people's chances (not me. Never me :P) of placing higher.

Ultraman100 · 07-03-2018 11:17pm

fock all 20 milers....seems to be a lot of races alright

Testosterscone · 07-03-2018 11:36pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I don't know about all the new emerging road races being a bad thing though. I think it's a good thing. None of the heavy-hitters would ever really clash I'd imagine and I guess that new locations and new routes can be nice for those of us who might get a bit bored returning to the same routes year on year.

I would think that in terms of it killing competition, maybe it won't. Maybe what it might do is spread it out a bit more, thus increasing some people's chances (not me. Never me :P) of placing higher.

Look at it from this perspective. Full road closures are expensive and require garda presence and overtime to be paid. If fields were bigger this cost could be feasible but if there is a road race every week in the area then garda won't have man power to do this and then you get back to partial closures etc.

In terms of competition also this is the point. Say for example in you have 50 sub 70 min 10 mile runners. Spread them over 4 or five races and suddenly your chances of isolation and effectively time trialing increase, gives alot more time to focus on the negatives and doubts creeping in as opposed to simply racing.

Either that or you lose some runners from some race simply because there is a slight better chance of a prize in the other or to avoid x and y. You don't rise to the occasion but rather bring the bar down which in itself kills competitive spirit also.

Coffee Fulled Runner · 08-03-2018 11:31am

Testosterscone wrote: »

In terms of competition also this is the point. Say for example in you have 50 sub 70 min 10 mile runners. Spread them over 4 or five races and suddenly your chances of isolation and effectively time trialing increase, gives alot more time to focus on the negatives and doubts creeping in as opposed to simply racing.
.

I tend to avoid races where I know I'll be isolated for long periods. Nothing worse then been at the 5 mile mark knowing you're not going to catch the sub 60 runners I'd be around 64 and no one around you to race against.

OOnegative · 08-03-2018 11:35am

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote: »

I tend to avoid races where I know I'll be isolated for long periods. Nothing worse then been at the 5 mile mark knowing you're not going to catch the sub 60 runners I'd be around 64 and no one around you to race against.

Running solo in races can be great for mental strength to, if you can push yourself solo it should stand to you even more when racing in larger groups.

Coffee Fulled Runner · 08-03-2018 2:10pm

OOnegative wrote: »

Running solo in races can be great for mental strength to, if you can push yourself solo it should stand to you even more when racing in larger groups.

I agree to a point. In 2016 I think 70% of my races I found myself isolated. I still race in small local races where I know I'll get isolated but I use them as practice races

Slow_Runner · 08-03-2018 3:09pm

I'm one of the organizers for the Kilcock 10 mile and we started last November trying to pick a date that didn't clash with other races in Leinster which was surprisingly difficult. Ironically we picked the 10 mile distance as we thought there was a gap for this distance and there was plenty of 1/2 marathons scheduled. Also looking at the numbers the likes of Trim and Ballycotton (rip) get in the run up to spring marathons there is definitely a demand.
I think the reason for the clustering of all these races is they are scheduled and marketed as tune up races to Autumn marathons - our own race's selling point is 10 miles, 10 weeks out from DCM (hence the "10 from 10") so you have a small window in which to pitch your race, very fwe people would have a 10 mile as a target race unlike 5/10ks and HMs
The races listed by the OP I think, geographically speaking, are not really clashing - Roscommon and Monaghan are accessible to the West and North so will get the numbers. Only real clash is ourselves and Frank Duffy :angel:, while FD is a fantastic race we thought there was room for an alternative away from the park(this was before it moved to Fingal which means there is even more of a gap!).
[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]One thing about a lot of races is it will force competition and innovation for the race organizers which can only be a good thing for the runners.[/font]

average_runner wrote: »

Never heard of kilcock 10 miler, any good?

First year for this one. We're aiming to have the same small club race feel for a bigger event, friendly, accessible and big spread afterwards. Oh and its going to be flat - very flat :).

RayCun · 08-03-2018 7:31pm

I think the better races will continue to attract the crowd, and particularly to attract the better runners, who are likely to be more experienced and less interested in gimmicks. I can't think of any high quality races that have been driven out by poor quality competition.

And if people want a race, they usually know where to get it. But often they decide where to run based on other things.

Testosterscone · 08-03-2018 7:34pm

RayCun wrote: »

I think the better races will continue to attract the crowd, and particularly to attract the better runners, who are likely to be more experienced and less interested in gimmicks. I can't think of any high quality races that have been driven out by poor quality competition.

Could you argue the lack of help and support from volunteers contributed to Ballycotton's demise? Its not just competition from participants but also the limited competent volunteer pool that gets stretched.

RayCun · 08-03-2018 7:36pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

Could you argue the lack of help and support from volunteers contributed to Ballycotton's demise? Its not just competition from participants but also the limited competent volunteer pool

Ah, that's a different thing altogether.

average_runner · 08-03-2018 10:22pm

Slow_Runner wrote: »

I'm one of the organizers for the Kilcock 10 mile and we started last November trying to pick a date that didn't clash with other races in Leinster which was surprisingly difficult. Ironically we picked the 10 mile distance as we thought there was a gap for this distance and there was plenty of 1/2 marathons scheduled. Also looking at the numbers the likes of Trim and Ballycotton (rip) get in the run up to spring marathons there is definitely a demand.
I think the reason for the clustering of all these races is they are scheduled and marketed as tune up races to Autumn marathons - our own race's selling point is 10 miles, 10 weeks out from DCM (hence the "10 from 10") so you have a small window in which to pitch your race, very fwe people would have a 10 mile as a target race unlike 5/10ks and HMs
The races listed by the OP I think, geographically speaking, are not really clashing - Roscommon and Monaghan are accessible to the West and North so will get the numbers. Only real clash is ourselves and Frank Duffy :angel:, while FD is a fantastic race we thought there was room for an alternative away from the park(this was before it moved to Fingal which means there is even more of a gap!).
[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]One thing about a lot of races is it will force competition and innovation for the race organizers which can only be a good thing for the runners.[/font]

First year for this one. We're aiming to have the same small club race feel for a bigger event, friendly, accessible and big spread afterwards. Oh and its going to be flat - very flat :).

Looking forward to it.

TFBubendorfer · 09-03-2018 9:12am

Testosterscone wrote: »

Could you argue the lack of help and support from volunteers contributed to Ballycotton's demise? Its not just competition from participants but also the limited competent volunteer pool that gets stretched.

That exactly was the reason that was given for the end of that race. It was held in a very small community and keeping sufficient numbers of volunteers was always going to be more challenging than for a race held in a bigger town.

RayCun · 09-03-2018 1:26pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

That exactly was the reason that was given for the end of that race. It was held in a very small community and keeping sufficient numbers of volunteers was always going to be more challenging than for a race held in a bigger town.

But Ballycotton wasn't losing volunteers to other races afaik, it wasn't a victim of race saturation. It was unusual in the first place, because not put on by a club or other continuing organisation

youngrun · 09-03-2018 3:27pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

Looking at the race calendar this year is it becoming untenable?

Few examples;

7th July - Roscommon 10
14th July - Irish Road Runner 10 mile
August 12th - Monaghan 10
August 19th - Kilcock 10 mile
August 26th - Frank Duffy 10 mile

Also seeing the way the K Club 10k is bouncing around the calendar (moved from clashing with Dunboyne 4 mile to clashing with Clontarf 10 mile.

Is this killing competitive racing in this country through the proliferation of fields?

Edit: Mullingar 10 now been moved to 28th of July as well :rolleyes:

A lot of races out west are losing numbers and have been for last 2/3 years. The big ones are holding solid .
Age of road runners is pushing on . The pot of runners at top end is low and falling . Major challenge for athletics in retaining and recruiting 20-35 bracket Parkrun impacting on a lot of races why would you go to a race when PR is there. Lot of organising and unless you get 200 no point. may be a different issue in Dublin area

BeepBeep67 · 09-03-2018 4:24pm

RayCun wrote: »

But Ballycotton wasn't losing volunteers to other races afaik, it wasn't a victim of race saturation. It was unusual in the first place, because not put on by a club or other continuing organisation

Having never done the race, but from an outside view, the race probably out grew itself and even in a remote location like Ballycotton the demands of the Gardai and Emergency services with regard to developing robust event plans, with well thought out emergency and health and safety procedures can be both cost and capability prohibitive. In previous years you probably called in a few favours because you knew the local sergeant and someone that done a first aid course a few years ago, that doesn't fly as your event increases in size.

It's a big ask for 'volunteers' to take responsibility for those things and devote the necessary time to doing it right.

Timmaay · 10-03-2018 5:40pm

Having help organize countless road races over the years, I know how soul destroyed it is to see alot of hard work go to waste when a race does not achieve anywhere near the expected income. Yes the calendar is certainly saturated in my view, and something needs to be done keep a good standard in races and make races more profitable.

I would suggest that some of the clubs come together to try to form larger races, where they can pool their volunteer resources and experience, and reduce the number of clashes. In around Kildare and west Dublin area there are a large number of clubs, who could certainly work together if they wanted to. It would be a win win, less effort overall, bigger fields, and reduced calendar congestion.

Nuttzz · 12-03-2018 11:20am

I'm pretty new to the running scene so forgive some of my ignorance.

Does AAI have a role to play here, insofar as they could give out only X number of permits per region for each weekend. I might help reduce the number of clashes, I appreciate that can still run events without an AAI permit but if there was an AAI calendar of events that were officially approved then the quality of those fields might be better?

The Davestator · 12-03-2018 12:16pm

On a related note - what is the best resource for run events?
Is there one that lists them all, or is it a case of looking at run Ireland etc

OOnegative · 12-03-2018 12:23pm

The Davestator wrote: »

On a related note - what is the best resource for run events?
Is there one that lists them all, or is it a case of looking at run Ireland etc

Lindie Naughton has a fairly comprehensive list on her blog.

joey1111 · 12-03-2018 12:41pm

Its only a race saturation point if its going under and races are having to shut down because they're not making any money out of it.

I havn't read of any such races stopping because of a popularity crisis.

If anything its making everything more competitive, lower prices, drumming up more interest. We might even garner more interest in the sport and produce a star or two.

Its great having options northside and south and also down the country too with a surprising amount of races popping up in more remote spots so people dont have to travel.

Win win situation to me.

RayCun · 12-03-2018 2:52pm

Races are approved by county boards, not the national body. They are not supposed to clash, but of course you can have a race in Dublin, one in Kildare, one in Meath... all on the same day.

Sunny Dayz · 12-03-2018 6:06pm

Obviously there will be a tipping point. I'd imagine if you were in Dublin you'd have a choice of races of some distance or another almost every weekend. However where I am there's not a great choice and I do have to travel a bit if I want a race and then I have to really want to do it.

I think the tipping point will come about when the cost of organising races and the increasing price of race entries reaches a point - what that point is I don't know. But it will get to the stage where organisers will be tied to a particular entry price in order to make the run viable but then not attract enough entries.
This is what has happened from what I can see in motorsport, the cost of putting on a rally has increased, there was a rally on nearly every weekend and competitors couldn't afford to compete in as many, and then the rally wouldn't have enough competitors to cover costs. So many events, mainly smaller ones have be cancelled for this year.

Testosterscone · 12-03-2018 6:40pm

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

Obviously there will be a tipping point. I'd imagine if you were in Dublin you'd have a choice of races of some distance or another almost every weekend. However where I am there's not a great choice and I do have to travel a bit if I want a race and then I have to really want to do it.

I think the tipping point will come about when the cost of organising races and the increasing price of race entries reaches a point - what that point is I don't know. But it will get to the stage where organisers will be tied to a particular entry price in order to make the run viable but then not attract enough entries.
This is what has happened from what I can see in motorsport, the cost of putting on a rally has increased, there was a rally on nearly every weekend and competitors couldn't afford to compete in as many, and then the rally wouldn't have enough competitors to cover costs. So many events, mainly smaller ones have be cancelled for this year.

There is a counter movement unfortunately already creeping in. Virtual Racing, same price as many of the local races with none of the same overheads outside of a medal and P+P

Testosterscone · 12-03-2018 7:15pm

joey1111 wrote: »

If anything its making everything more competitive, lower prices, drumming up more interest. We might even garner more interest in the sport and produce a star or two.

I would argue the opposite.

Take your average local race

Prize money down,
Proliferation of the sub elite standard through overlap of races,
Continually increasing costs eroding funds raised for clubs which is used to develop grass roots athletics (differentiating between this and participation athletics) despite the upturn in numbers.

Road Running is being pushed into a middle class indulgence now due to medals, tshirts, chip timing, goody bags. Many of the established road races are probably making less off double the numbers than they used to years back. Think of the average club running college go-er, do they really have a couple of 100e a year to go on race entries alone especially now when you would be lucky to have top 3 get prize money which would not even cover travel and race entry

The drive for participation is driving out many of the developing talent emerging.

joey1111 · 12-03-2018 7:26pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

I would argue the opposite.

Take your average local race

Prize money down,
Proliferation of the sub elite standard through overlap of races,
Continually increasing costs eroding funds raised for clubs which is used to develop grass roots athletics (differentiating between this and participation athletics)

Road Running is being pushed into a middle class indulgence. Think of the average club running college go-er, do they really have a couple of 100e a year to go on race entries alone especially now when you would be lucky to have top 3 get prize money which would not even cover travel and race entry

The drive for participation is driving out many of the developing talent emerging.

Well lets be honest the prize money was always crap to begin with, i doubt any of the elites in Ireland would choose to go abroad or coach or work in their spare time if there was any money in athletics. But I wont flog a dead horse on that issue.

Yeah I agree to a certain level about proliferation of sub elites but I'm sure some of the guys who never get a look in - always the bridesmaids are delighted to see a chance to win a race or be in the top three.

I dont know that much about eroding costs etc, Raycun can argue about that.

We simply have no support from the top and it goes back to the aged arguement about Athletics not being promoted by the ministers...money etc.

I still dont see saturation until we get to the point where clubs/promotors stop their races etc.

Testosterscone · 12-03-2018 7:45pm

joey1111 wrote: »

Well lets be honest the prize money was always crap to begin with, i doubt any of the elites in Ireland would choose to go abroad or coach or work in their spare time if there was any money in athletics. But I wont flog a dead horse on that issue.

Yeah I agree to a certain level about proliferation of sub elites but I'm sure some of the guys who never get a look in - always the bridesmaids are delighted to see a chance to win a race or be in the top three.

I dont know that much about eroding costs etc, Raycun can argue about that.

We simply have no support from the top and it goes back to the aged arguement about Athletics not being promoted by the ministers...money etc.

I still dont see saturation until we get to the point where clubs/promotors stop their races etc.

Was it always crap? A video cropped up on my FB last week of the Sportsworld race back in 1991. It was a world best at the time quicker than Salazar. The breakdown of prize money was interesting (as well as the standard. Should also be noted that they had 1/4 of the modern day fields for the same race.

http://more.arrs.net/race/5305

I don't think it needs to come from top. There is plenty of money in the sport that is the most infuriating thing. There is literally 10s and possible 100s of thousands going into race entries on a weekly basis. No other sport in this country has that sort of money (debatable whether GAA match day tickets rival) without even including the clothes and shoes being bought.

With that sort of money being put in why are the margins being squeezed so tight and why can we only afford one paid coach in this country??

There are plenty of races who have pulled out but the gaps are usually jumped on and an inferior race usually comes in cutting another corner to save costs. it is also interesting to see the rise of race organizers with affiliations to medal companies, t shirt companies or medal hangers and other accessories. Or indeed full time charity workers.

Safiri · 12-03-2018 8:21pm

Down here, it's actually gone quite different except maybe the Ennis split this year. Non permit fun runs seems to have gone the way of the dinosuars. A lot of the old Club run races are booming and selling out in no time. Our own club 10k has never had as much demand as it has in the last few years.

Standards across the board seem to be slowly rising, A senior athlete who hasn't lost a championship race in 8 years barely scrapped top 5 in the last championship race. More AI affliated clubs are forming and making an impact at club championship level and better juvenile systems are in place with new and repaired facilities on the horizon.

Know Dublin is a different kettle of fish but only 3 or 4 years ago; I couldn't see what's starting to develop down here ever happening.

joey1111 · 12-03-2018 8:26pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

Was it always crap? A video cropped up on my FB last week of the Sportsworld race back in 1991. It was a world best at the time quicker than Salazar. The breakdown of prize money was interesting (as well as the standard. Should also be noted that they had 1/4 of the modern day fields for the same race.

http://more.arrs.net/race/5305

I don't think it needs to come from top. There is plenty of money in the sport that is the most infuriating thing. There is literally 10s and possible 100s of thousands going into race entries on a weekly basis. No other sport in this country has that sort of money (debatable whether GAA match day tickets rival) without even including the clothes and shoes being bought.

With that sort of money being put in why are the margins being squeezed so tight and why can we only afford one paid coach in this country??

There are plenty of races who have pulled out but the gaps are usually jumped on and an inferior race usually comes in cutting another corner to save costs. it is also interesting to see the rise of race organizers with affiliations to medal companies, t shirt companies or medal hangers and other accessories. Or indeed full time charity workers.

I'd have to do a bit of research about prize money to agree or disagree. What prize money did women get for example?

I remember going around with my dad as a kid and never ever remember the prize money being memorable.

Theres definitely not enough to make someone take up athletics like the way they would with other sports.

Havnt the likes of GAA and Rugby players in the past anyway almost being accertained a career outside of their sport if they became a national player?

I think it does need to come from the top, when do you ever see adverts about athletics the way you do about GAA or Rugby?

Very little tv coverage
International meets?
Only recently getting decent stadiums
Elite athletes making 20 odd grand a year

This all needs to come from the top.

And what is the answer to your own question about where the money is going?

Testosterscone · 12-03-2018 8:43pm

joey1111 wrote: »

I'd have to do a bit of research about prize money to agree or disagree. What prize money did women get for example?

I remember going around with my dad as a kid and never ever remember the prize money being memorable.

Theres definitely not enough to make someone take up athletics like the way they would with other sports.

Havnt the likes of GAA and Rugby players in the past anyway almost being accertained a career outside of their sport if they became a national player?

I think it does need to come from the top, when do you ever see adverts about athletics the way you do about GAA or Rugby?

Very little tv coverage
International meets?
Only recently getting decent stadiums
Elite athletes making 20 odd grand a year

This all needs to come from the top.

And what is the answer to your own question about where the money is going?

Its not about attracting people into the sport. We manage to get them in at juvenile level but it's the huge drop off rates that are the issue or the fact that only 11% of all AAI members are between 20-35. No one will become a millionaire out of the sport but if it could pay your way through these years you would be surprised how many you might keep (just look at the blogger generation who basically live off free stuff rather than actually making a sustainable living with a secure further)

Regarding the money this is the issue. Events Management companies (AAI paying them a nice chunk for there services) Medal companies, T shirt companies, insurance, Garda overtime. all these overheads mean that despite the numbers dramatically going up in terms of numbers of races and etc. The numbers aren't outweighing the rising costs in any significant way and the more races that come in undercut this even further (larger numbers will reduce overheads of medals etc through buying in bulk rather that 4/5 smaller races.

Someone made the point earlier that these days there is almost no point in putting on a low key race unless you pull in a atleast 200 people this threshold of viability continues to rise while the pool of runners continues to be diluted through more and more races.

As said plenty of money in the sport but very little of it actually staying there sadly

robinph · 12-03-2018 8:58pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

Road Running is being pushed into a middle class indulgence now due to medals, tshirts, chip timing, goody bags.

Mass participation road running has always been a middle class activity. People at the real pointy end of things are a more diverse bunch than those in the middle of the pack. You need spare time and money on your hands to be able to indulge in not winning races as a hobby.

joey1111 · 12-03-2018 9:05pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

Its not about attracting people into the sport. We manage to get them in at juvenile level but it's the huge drop off rates that are the issue or the fact that only 11% of all AAI members are between 20-35. No one will become a millionaire out of the sport but if it could pay your way through these years you would be surprised how many you might keep (just look at the blogger generation who basically live off free stuff rather than actually making a sustainable living with a secure further)

Regarding the money this is the issue. Events Management companies (AAI paying them a nice chunk for there services) Medal companies, T shirt companies, insurance, Garda overtime. all these overheads mean that despite the numbers dramatically going up in terms of numbers of races and etc. The numbers aren't outweighing the rising costs in any significant way and the more races that come in undercut this even further (larger numbers will reduce overheads of medals etc through buying in bulk rather that 4/5 smaller races.

Someone made the point earlier that these days there is almost no point in putting on a low key race unless you pull in a atleast 200 people this threshold of viability continues to rise while the pool of runners continues to be diluted through more and more races.

As said plenty of money in the sport but very little of it actually staying there sadly

But the whole keeping them there is part of the money and promotion not coming from the top.
When the kids finish their leaving cert a lot of them dont want to have to travel to another country to develop. They cant afford to give all their time to the sport at home. Most of them coming up who are any use and staying at home are studying 3rd level as well, coming from money etc.

I see the whole scenario of racing in this country as its own little niche, involving the community, creating revenue for the club to keep running, Operating transformation etc.

I wouldnt in a million years see this local racing thing as being something part of the revenue for developing athletes.

We need some decent scholarship programmes and more advertising for the sport, televise it, sex it up. Make the kids want to stay in Ireland and develop them here. Market Ireland as a place to hold meets.

Hurrache · 12-03-2018 10:41pm

robinph wrote: »

Mass participation road running has always been a middle class activity.

Maybe more so these days, but it certainly wasn't always a middle class activity.

Ultraman100 · 12-03-2018 11:01pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

Regarding the money this is the issue. Events Management companies (AAI paying them a nice chunk for there services) Medal companies, T shirt companies, insurance, Garda overtime. all these overheads mean that despite the numbers dramatically going up in terms of numbers of races and etc. The numbers aren't outweighing the rising costs in any significant way and the more races that come in undercut this even further (larger numbers will reduce overheads of medals etc through buying in bulk rather that 4/5 smaller races.

Someone made the point earlier that these days there is almost no point in putting on a low key race unless you pull in a atleast 200 people this threshold of viability continues to rise while the pool of runners continues to be diluted through more and more races.

As said plenty of money in the sport but very little of it actually staying there sadly

costs are crippling clubs that want to put on a race..people lookin for medals,chip timing,tee shirts,free food after a race,road closuresetc i know of one club race that had 400+ entrants and made fock all..first question mist people ask is "is there a medal" theres 4 quid per person gone straight away down the swanny

joey1111 · 12-03-2018 11:04pm

Ultraman100 wrote: »

costs are crippling clubs that want to put on a race..people lookin for medals,chip timing,tee shirts,free food after a race,road closuresetc i know of one club race that had 400+ entrants and made fock all..first question mist people ask is "is there a medal" theres 4 quid per person gone straight away down the swanny

what one was that?

Ultraman100 · 12-03-2018 11:07pm

joey1111 wrote: »

what one was that?

yea rite

joey1111 · 12-03-2018 11:10pm

Ultraman100 wrote: »

yea rite

Sorry did I ask something unreasonable or was I being rude?
You're the one telling us about a club that didnt make anything, reasonable enough to ask you to back up what you're on about.

Ultraman100 · 12-03-2018 11:24pm

joey1111 wrote: »

Sorry did I ask something unreasonable or was I being rude?
You're the one telling us about a club that didnt make anything, reasonable enough to ask you to back up what you're on about.

just makin the point of where the money goes..dosent go to clubs and dosent go to aai...wether u believe it or not means fock all to me

RayCun · 13-03-2018 7:29am

I don't think its a good idea to get into discussing individual races. Ultraman does race measurement so he works with a few.

RayCun · 13-03-2018 7:35am

But is it a good idea to have lots of races with less than 500 people? Paper thin fields, no money for prizes, hard to get road closures... Better to have races around the 1000 mark, which might mean clubs working together on a race rather than each having their own.

(We sometimes talk about putting on a race, but between finding space in calendar, road closures, and something to make it stand out, I don't think we could put on a big one, and I'm not interested in a small one)

SeeMoreBut · 13-03-2018 7:48am

What’s it with races selling out so far ahead. People are entering races just to have an entry without even knowing if they’ll do it. Cause jimmy is said he’ll do it then another 5-10 enter and half don’t do it

robinph · 13-03-2018 7:53am

Most of the regular races over here would be in the 200-400 range of participants. No medals or prizes (other than a few bottles of cheap wine), no tshirts, most wouldn't have chip timing. There are several nearby which are on each month on different week nights so usually something each week through the year.

Longer events on the weekend would also rarely be in numbers up towards the 1000s unless they are a really big event.

RayCun · 13-03-2018 9:19am

robinph wrote: »

Most of the regular races over here would be in the 200-400 range of participants. No medals or prizes (other than a few bottles of cheap wine), no tshirts, most wouldn't have chip timing. There are several nearby which are on each month on different week nights so usually something each week through the year.

Longer events on the weekend would also rarely be in numbers up towards the 1000s unless they are a really big event.

How much are they to enter?
I presume not on closed roads?

Race Saturation point

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