Race Saturation point

joey1111 · 13-03-2018 2:41pm

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I think BHAA would be classified as successful races, they don't offer either of those. They are known for their post race spread though. I'm not convinced you have to offer tshirt and medal to be a success..

They are more geared towards club points etc

though arnt they so I wouldnt put them in the same vein as club or fun runs so wouldnt expect a t-shirt or medal unless I came in the top three etc.

Does the spread have anything to do with where the races are situated as well I wonder.

Djoucer · 13-03-2018 2:42pm

Medals should be banned on environmental* grounds. Crazy waste of resources.

*being an adult appears to be not sufficient a reason to stop them.

Suppose there's a big difference between races and fun runs.

This year seems quiet in comparison to previous years.

OOnegative · 13-03-2018 2:43pm

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I think BHAA would be classified as successful races, they don't offer either of those. They are known for their post race spread though. I'm not convinced you have to offer tshirt and medal to be a success..

The race that influenced this thread somewhat, Ballycotton you had to earn your tshirt by being in the top 100, Raheny 5 mile has no tshirt, Bob Heffernan 5k the same. Some of the more successful races do not offer one and they are some of the longest running races on the racing calendar.

Annie get your Run · 13-03-2018 2:44pm

joey1111 wrote: »

They are more geared towards club points etc though arnt they so I wouldnt put them in the same vein as club or fun runs so wouldnt expect a t-shirt or medal unless I came in the top three etc.

Does the spread have anything to do with where the races are situated as well I wonder.

I think they get very high numbers of club runners taking part no? Certainly see a lot of club vests at them but could be just the few I've done. I think the idea of the spread as well is that it's seen as just rewards for a race ran hard.

Definitely not in the same category as fun runs but then neither are were club runs..

joey1111 · 13-03-2018 2:55pm

Djoucer wrote: »

Medals should be banned on environmental* grounds. Crazy waste of resources.

*being an adult appears to be not sufficient a reason to stop them.

Suppose there's a big difference between races and fun runs.

This year seems quiet in comparison to previous years.

That medal thing is never going to die out as long as fun runners exist.
They love their bling, it could be the difference between some entering an race
or waiting for another with a medal.

I honestly think they could eliminate the t-shirt but not the medal.

Annie get your Run · 13-03-2018 3:21pm

joey1111 wrote: »

That medal thing is never going to die out as long as fun runners exist.
They love their bling, it could be the difference between some entering an race
or waiting for another with a medal.

I honestly think they could eliminate the t-shirt but not the medal.

Part of me thinks if all club races scrapped medals then people who want to take part in a race would still enter, but it would take everyone doing it a the same time to work.... It doesn't bother me if a race has no t-shirt although I do wear them all so at least they're actually useful!

Slow_Runner · 13-03-2018 3:34pm

joey1111 wrote: »

That medal thing is never going to die out as long as fun runners exist.
They love their bling, it could be the difference between some entering an race
or waiting for another with a medal.

I honestly think they could eliminate the t-shirt but not the medal.

We argued talked a lot about having medals and t-shirts at our race, in the end it came down to having them both as we are competing with races that do so you kinda have to at least match them, we considered reducing the cost of entry and charge extra for the t-shirt but ironically this would be perceived as being greedy
The way I see it you have 2 types of runners which has nothing to do with pace/ability or commitment:

Club runner - runs competitively or for the social aspect with group training. Goes to races to not only race but to meet up with others, doesn't care about medal, etc wants a good cheap race with a cuppa and chat after. W
Leisure runner - Loves the whole aspect of a race as an event and the atmosphere around it as well as achieving their goal time, so wants a memento like a medal/t-shirt.

There are way more runner in the 2nd category (although they are not exclusive groups and there is an overlap) so you will see the club runners primarily at the club races (Coa's 5k/Bob Heffernan) which are low cost/no bull/big spread but with only 400-500 runners but 1000s entering the like of R&R, Night Run and Dublin Race Series which cost more but have the goodies to go with it.

As race organizers we want to maximize the numbers entering (especially as we are not an established race yet) as the fixed costs will be the same no matter the numbers (chip timing, road closures, ambulance, etc). If our Kilcock 10 miler is successful (fingers crossed) we will review the medal and t-shirt for next year but tbh I can't see them going anywhere as the feedback is generally positive towards them.

joey1111 · 13-03-2018 3:46pm

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Part of me thinks if all club races scrapped medals then people who want to take part in a race would still enter, but it would take everyone doing it a the same time to work.... It doesn't bother me if a race has no t-shirt although I do wear them all so at least they're actually useful!

would it make more sense to scrap the t-shirt since its more expensive than the medal. I think I read somewhere that it costs them 50 cents per medal when bought in bulk.

BattleHardened · 13-03-2018 3:46pm

joey1111 wrote: »

would it make more sense to scrap the t-shirt since its more expensive than the medal. I think I read somewhere that it costs them 50 cents per medal when bought in bulk.

Wouldn't expect any less.

eyrie · 13-03-2018 3:55pm

I haven't done many races so am probably not qualified to comment, but I would massively support scrapping both t-shirts and medals, or giving people an option to pay for them if they want them. Personally I never wear the t-shirts and they just take up space in the wardrobe and make me feel guilty about the wastefulness!

I'd go so far as to say the goodie bags could be scrapped in favour of some optional stuff for people to take from a table afterwards too, which some races already do. I.e. you can grab a banana/granola bar/etc if you want it, but you're not automatically given a bag full of stuff. I say this in light of the Raheny 5 mile (which was a great event, and I don't mean to criticise the organisation) which didn't give a tshirt or medal as has been mentioned, but did give a massive bag of food that I will never eat and almost two months later it's still sitting at home untouched (well except for the packet of biscuits, they were quickly taken care of

). It would save the volunteers the trouble of filling all the individual bags too, so might reduce effort a tiny bit for the organisers.

joey1111 · 13-03-2018 4:02pm

eyrie wrote: »

I haven't done many races so am probably not qualified to comment, but I would massively support scrapping both t-shirts and medals, or giving people an option to pay for them if they want them. Personally I never wear the t-shirts and they just take up space in the wardrobe and make me feel guilty about the wastefulness!

I'd go so far as to say the goodie bags could be scrapped in favour of some optional stuff for people to take from a table afterwards too, which some races already do. I.e. you can grab a banana/granola bar/etc if you want it, but you're not automatically given a bag full of stuff. I say this in light of the Raheny 5 mile (which was a great event, and I don't mean to criticise the organisation) which didn't give a tshirt or medal as has been mentioned, but did give a massive bag of food that I will never eat and almost two months later it's still sitting at home untouched (well except for the packet of biscuits, they were quickly taken care of ). It would save the volunteers the trouble of filling all the individual bags too, so might reduce effort a tiny bit for the organisers.

Sorry eyrie but I have to give you a thumbs down for the Raheny 5. Its a very special race, everything about it is magical.:P

Tombo2001 · 13-03-2018 4:04pm

is it realistic to call these races? A lot of these are fun runs.

joey1111 · 13-03-2018 4:08pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

is it realistic to call these races? A lot of these are fun runs.

Isnt every race a fun run unless you're at the pointy end?

Annie get your Run · 13-03-2018 4:14pm

joey1111 wrote: »

would it make more sense to scrap the t-shirt since its more expensive than the medal. I think I read somewhere that it costs them 50 cents per medal when bought in bulk.

Possibly!

eyrie wrote: »

I haven't done many races so am probably not qualified to comment, but I would massively support scrapping both t-shirts and medals, or giving people an option to pay for them if they want them. Personally I never wear the t-shirts and they just take up space in the wardrobe and make me feel guilty about the wastefulness!

I'd go so far as to say the goodie bags could be scrapped in favour of some optional stuff for people to take from a table afterwards too, which some races already do. I.e. you can grab a banana/granola bar/etc if you want it, but you're not automatically given a bag full of stuff. I say this in light of the Raheny 5 mile (which was a great event, and I don't mean to criticise the organisation) which didn't give a tshirt or medal as has been mentioned, but did give a massive bag of food that I will never eat and almost two months later it's still sitting at home untouched (well except for the packet of biscuits, they were quickly taken care of ). It would save the volunteers the trouble of filling all the individual bags too, so might reduce effort a tiny bit for the organisers.

+1 to this, I love Raheny too but there's no need for the goody bag - having said that many people *only* do it for that! They could definitely scrap the little plaque too, I don't even know what to do with it

Actually one of my favourite races, jingle bells, does a mug - I've yet to hear anyone give out about that and it's really nice to have a collection of them with each date on it...

OOnegative · 13-03-2018 4:14pm

If you want fuss free races at the cheaper end of entry fee(for Ireland) check out the Meath Road Races, all about €15 to enter with food/tea/coffee at the finish, some offer T-shirt’s and bling but most don’t. All fantastic races to run. Believe Offaly has started a similar thing this year to.

eyrie · 13-03-2018 4:16pm

joey1111 wrote: »

Sorry eyrie but I have to give you a thumbs down for the Raheny 5. Its a very special race, everything about it is magical.:P

Haha I knew I was treading on sacred ground with that one! Not knocking the race in the slightest, it was my first time doing it and I had a fantastic time. Will definitely be back. Just trying to save the workers who had to fill all those bags a wee bit of the trouble :P

Then again I was initially thinking of it in the context of the discussion here re: saving costs of putting on races, and now that I think about it I'm guessing the food that goes into the goodie bag is probably given free as sponsorship so I guess it wouldn't save them anything. Still from an environmental point of view I wouldn't be upset if it was reduced a bit!

Tombo2001 · 13-03-2018 4:17pm

joey1111 wrote: »

Isnt every race a fun run unless you're at the pointy end?

No not true.

A lot of races dont have a pointy end.

All the races that GAA clubs run as fund raisers for example.

OOnegative · 13-03-2018 4:17pm

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Actually one of my favourite races, jingle bells, does a mug - I've yet to hear anyone give out about that and it's really nice to have a collection of them with each date on it...

Mine has seen better days, still will hold onto it.

joey1111 · 13-03-2018 4:21pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

No not true.

A lot of races dont have a pointy end.

All the races that GAA clubs run as fund raisers for example.

depends on the calibre you're talking about, you havnt specified.

Are we talking national champions entering the race or decent club runners?

I dont think I seen anyone mention GAA races in previous posts so not sure what you're referring to.

joey1111 · 13-03-2018 4:52pm

eyrie wrote: »

Haha I knew I was treading on sacred ground with that one! Not knocking the race in the slightest, it was my first time doing it and I had a fantastic time. Will definitely be back. Just trying to save the workers who had to fill all those bags a wee bit of the trouble :P

Then again I was initially thinking of it in the context of the discussion here re: saving costs of putting on races, and now that I think about it I'm guessing the food that goes into the goodie bag is probably given free as sponsorship so I guess it wouldn't save them anything. Still from an environmental point of view I wouldn't be upset if it was reduced a bit!

Yeah I see your point exactly and it also just registered with me too that they get most stuff given to them through sponsorship so win win for everyone.

I have to say I dont know how well leaving food/drink out as a free for all works. I know in the past when I did the Terenure run I missed out on water because of glutons taking several bottles who finished before me. I actually read that about the race afterwards. Maybe the race crew think it might be fairer to stick it in the bag.

average_runner · 13-03-2018 4:59pm

joey1111 wrote: »

Isnt every race a fun run unless you're at the pointy end?

Not at all. When I race, i go out with a aim for that race. A fun run is something you do and don't care about your performance.

joey1111 · 13-03-2018 5:08pm

average_runner wrote: »

Not at all. When I race, i go out with a aim for that race. A fun run is something you do and don't care about your performance.

Well thats what a fun run is to you AR, to me a fun run is any run where Im not in the top 10 or 100 depending on the race size which is every run I've ever taken part in bar school sports day.

Murph_D · 13-03-2018 6:40pm

OOnegative wrote: »

Mine has seen better days, still will hold onto it.

Jaysus B - and that’s only 2 years old. Hand wash only for these precious souvenirs - no dishwashers!

OOnegative · 13-03-2018 6:47pm

Murph_D wrote: »

no dishwashers!

How you guess her nickname D......!!!

Huzzah! · 14-03-2018 5:09pm

joey1111 wrote: »

would it make more sense to scrap the t-shirt since its more expensive than the medal. I think I read somewhere that it costs them 50 cents per medal when bought in bulk.

I wonder if sponsors like having the option of having their logos imprinted on tshirts? This could be completely off the mark!

Testosterscone · 14-03-2018 5:13pm

joey1111 wrote: »

would it make more sense to scrap the t-shirt since its more expensive than the medal. I think I read somewhere that it costs them 50 cents per medal when bought in bulk.

These would be many of the community games/ old school style ones however more and more races are opting for the "custom medals" following the Rock and Roll trend (Rock and Roll, AAI Race Series, Charlie Curran Memorial,Jack Whites 5k/10k etc) These medals are costing roughly 4e a pop (2e if bough in high bulk i.e orders beyond 1500 roughly)

joey1111 wrote: »

Well thats what a fun run is to you AR, to me a fun run is any run where Im not in the top 10 or 100 depending on the race size which is every run I've ever taken part in bar school sports day.

It's kinda funny I tend to go the opposite way. I was near the back of a race last year (about 160s) in one that I would firmly put down as competitive, I compare that to one I ran last month where I was 3rd which I considered a complete fun run. The later despite trying to go for the win I found hard to take as a race environment (started late, poorly marshalled and more focus on the medals and the charity than the race itself and people were there to take part)

joey1111 · 14-03-2018 9:44pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

These would be many of the community games/ old school style ones however more and more races are opting for the "custom medals" following the Rock and Roll trend (Rock and Roll, AAI Race Series, Charlie Curran Memorial,Jack Whites 5k/10k etc) These medals are costing roughly 4e a pop (2e if bough in high bulk i.e orders beyond 1500 roughly)

It's kinda funny I tend to go the opposite way. I was near the back of a race last year (about 160s) in one that I would firmly put down as competitive, I compare that to one I ran last month where I was 3rd which I considered a complete fun run. The later despite trying to go for the win I found hard to take as a race environment (started late, poorly marshalled and more focus on the medals and the charity than the race itself and people were there to take part)

Thats funny, i think me saying 50 cent was probably from a post I read here on boards if I find it. Anyway yeah 2 to 4 euro is a lot, would it still be cheaper than a t-shirt?

I find it hard to believe you were near the back in a race, must've been very competitive!

I think I just have a Brendan Foster view of fun runs lol.

robinph · 15-03-2018 8:54am

joey1111 wrote: »

I think I just have a Brendan Foster view of fun runs lol.

He thinks anyone outside the top ten really shouldn't bother running. Delighted he's gone from the BBC commentary team now. No idea how he managed to build a mass participation race empire that actually prefers people wearing fancy dress than racing at the front.

joey1111 · 15-03-2018 11:09am

robinph wrote: »

He thinks anyone outside the top ten really shouldn't bother running. Delighted he's gone from the BBC commentary team now. No idea how he managed to build a mass participation race empire that actually prefers people wearing fancy dress than racing at the front.

Yeah I didnt think anyone would like that comment but I tend to agree with him where the top ten comes in. I also used to like his commentating as well even if he did have a liking for all things Paula Radcliffe. I always noticed though that he supported her just as much when she was always 4th and 5th in races before she suddenly started winning everything.

As for the Great Ireland Run well he knows what works to get people coming in their masses or at least the team he hired does.

You never mentioned the t-shirt quality by the way. Out of all the t-shirts I have ever got from a race I really would use the GIR one as a rag for wiping stuff. An absolutely hideous t-shirt every year, ugly print and generally looks like it cost a few cent to buy. Thats one t-shirt that should go but I guess some people must like the county on it or something.

robinph · 15-03-2018 11:42am

The tshirts are awful alright. This was the design for last years Bristol 10km which had some freaky looking bear hurdling a bridge for unknown reasons:
http://grimages.blob.core.windows.net/blobgrimages1/images/imagelibrary/newsfull/2017-07-31-gbrishalf_17tshirt.jpg

Previous years they had just used exactly the same design for all the 10km's and halfs and just changed the city name on the front which was an equally rubbish bunch of tshirt designs.

Race Saturation point

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