The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

helimachoptor · 15-01-2018 03:05PM

Mike Mularkey gone

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 15-01-2018 03:10PM

helimachoptor wrote: »

Mike Mularkey gone

Not really a surprise.

Realt Dearg Sec · 15-01-2018 03:13PM

Knex. wrote: »

Bateman wrote: »

The Jags have definitely drafted well, so well in fact that they make it look so easy. You look at some of the decisions certain other teams have taken and you really have to scratch your head. The Browns in particular, but also teams like the Colts who consistently make bad decisions. It definitely catches up with you as someone said.

I wouldn't quite say 'so well they make it look easy'. The biggest thing, for me, is that they finally started signing FAs that are in their prime that actually contribute. Instead of being the final paycheck of a player on his last legs.

Since David Caldwell became GM in 2013, these are his first rounders:

2013 2 Luke Joeckel
2014 3 Blake Bortles
2015 3 Dante Fowler Jr.
2016 5 Jalen Ramsey
2017 4 Leonard Fournette

I would highly question those first three years.

They have done well hitting on some of the later picks, such as Allen Robinson in the 2nd and Telvin Smith in the 4th in 2014, and also Ngakoue in the 3rd in 2016.

I wouldn't say its spectacular drafting however. Not like Seahawks a few years back, imo anyway. For example, their final four picks in 2016 are either out of the league or on practice squads elsewhere already. The other years aren't massively more productive either.

To be fair, in that 2013 draft if there was ANYONE advocating that Fisher and Joeckel shouldn't go first and second, they kept very, very quiet about it. I've seldom seen a non QB regarded as such an absolutely nailed on first pick (even Garrett last year was debated somewhat).

Knex* · 15-01-2018 03:18PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

To be fair, in that 2013 draft if there was ANYONE advocating that Fisher and Joeckel shouldn't go first and second, they kept very, very quiet about it. I've seldom seen a non QB regarded as such an absolutely nailed on first pick (even Garrett last year was debated somewhat).

That was an all round bizarre draft class to be fair yeah, well the top half of the first round was certainly so anyway.

Realt Dearg Sec · 15-01-2018 03:21PM

Knex. wrote: »

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

To be fair, in that 2013 draft if there was ANYONE advocating that Fisher and Joeckel shouldn't go first and second, they kept very, very quiet about it. I've seldom seen a non QB regarded as such an absolutely nailed on first pick (even Garrett last year was debated somewhat).

That was an all round bizarre draft class to be fair yeah, well the top half of the first round was certainly so anyway.

It's amazing neither of them really ever got close to living up to the hype. My feeling is most teams probably felt unhappy with the first round pick they made that year. Ziggy Ansah was a good pick not too many others. Ironically for the Bears Kyle Long was PANNED by fans but he's by far the best first round pick this decade.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 15-01-2018 03:28PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

It's amazing neither of them really ever got close to living up to the hype. My feeling is most teams probably felt unhappy with the first round pick they made that year

All the teams should feel bad about their first round picks considering Leveon Bell went in the second round.

Although I think the Vikings picked up Rhodes in the first round so probably happy enough with him.

brinty · 15-01-2018 03:31PM

Knex. wrote:

That was an all round bizarre draft class to be fair yeah, well the top half of the first round was certainly so anyway.

Might be outside the parameters but cowboys got Travis Frederick at 31 in 2013. Multiple times all Pro and pro bowl centre and top two Centre in the league... and many thought he was a day three player at best and laughed at the pick if memory serves me correct...

adrian522 · 15-01-2018 03:41PM

They didn't laugh at the pick they said he could have been selected on Day 2 so not worthy of first round selection. The Cowboys did try to trade down further (they'd already traded down to 31).

I agree with the Cowboys though, if you like a player you just take him, don't bogged down in thinking where he should go or if he is worthy of that pick. Just pick the guy highest on your draft board and build your team accordingly.

Also I'm pretty sure the Texans were pretty happy with their first round pick. WR out of Clemson. DeAndre something. Seems to be doing alright.

brinty · 15-01-2018 03:51PM

adrian522 wrote:

Also I'm pretty sure the Texans were pretty happy with their first round pick. WR out of Clemson. DeAndre something. Seems to be doing alright.

That Hopkins kid....

Yea he ain't been too bad...

phatkev · 15-01-2018 03:53PM

from that 2013 draft the Jets had 7 picks including two in the top 15 and there is only one of them left on the roster, a guard selected in the 3rd round:(

brinty · 15-01-2018 04:01PM

phatkev wrote:

from that 2013 draft the Jets had 7 picks including two in the top 15 and there is only one of them left on the roster, a guard selected in the 3rd round

Yea we only have Frederick and Terrence Williams from our draft class remaining
However we also picked up the GOAT Jeff Heath as a undrafted free agent that year.. every team shudders when they realise they missed out on his talent

Bateman · 15-01-2018 05:02PM

Billy86 wrote: »

They've also hit well on many 'obvious' picks which is kind of interesting since q lot of people (correctly) warned about "can't miss" busts while their drafts were getting A+ scores immediately after. It's pretty rare to do that and hit so often.

Yeah that's kind of what I was getting at saying they have been making it look easy. A combination of their needs, available talent, hard work and luck.

BonnieSituation · 15-01-2018 05:33PM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Not really a surprise.

Ian "Sources close to the situation" Rappaport was only talking about how he'd get an extension today.

Ha ha

Billy86 · 15-01-2018 06:57PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

To be fair, in that 2013 draft if there was ANYONE advocating that Fisher and Joeckel shouldn't go first and second, they kept very, very quiet about it. I've seldom seen a non QB regarded as such an absolutely nailed on first pick (even Garrett last year was debated somewhat).

Vernon Gholston might always stand out for me as the 'gold standard' of can't miss prospects that couldn't have missed any worse. He retired with exactly zero sacks in 45 games.

Billy86 · 15-01-2018 06:59PM

phatkev wrote: »

from that 2013 draft the Jets had 7 picks including two in the top 15 and there is only one of them left on the roster, a guard selected in the 3rd round:(

Yikes, they really Brown'd that one up. :eek:

Packers in 2013 was an up and down draft - Datone Jones in the first was a definite bust, Lacy in the second might be labelled so but when healthy and fit he was a pretty quality player for us, all pro LT David Bakhtiari in the 4th was phenomenal value (good on the run but the best pass blocker in the entire league in my opinion) while JC Tretter also in the 4th would probably be a starter if not for Corey Linsley the next year impressing so much, and again in the 4th Jonathon Franklin had his career but brutally short by injury (his one NFL game was a 100 yarder on 13 carries).

We also picked up our second all pro DB in consecutive the fifth round only fir Dom Capers to work his magic and make each look distinctly average (Micah Hyde, as with Casey Hayward), and picked up our current starting guard Lane Taylor as a UDFA. From rounds 5-7 we otherwise got Nate Palmer, Kevin Dorsey, Charles Johnson and Josh Boyd who are all either out of the league or career journeymen unlikely to be around in 1-2 years time.

15-01-2018 07:48PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Vernon Gholston might always stand out for me as the 'gold standard' of can't miss prospects that couldn't have missed any worse. He retired with exactly zero sacks in 45 games.

Aaron curry is mine.

Lane Johnson 4th overall in that draft was pretty good

For the record I laughed at the Frederick pick but I also laughed at the obj pick for the giants a few years later so I may just be an idiot

Realt Dearg Sec · 15-01-2018 07:57PM

I don't think there's many people who can claim they weren't completely off with their predictions of how various picks would pan out. Just today I was reading on a Bears forum a guy who hates the current GM, and his reasoning was basically as follows:

The Bears drafted Kevin White in the first round a few years ago and this year took in Glennon at 18 million quid. Meanwhile the Vikings drafted Stefon Diggs in the whatever round it was, and got Case Keenum this year for 2 million. Therefore Ryan Pace is a fool and should be shot out of a cannon.

It was pointed out to him that 32 GMs passed on Diggs four times each, and the Vikings also paid 25 million and two draft picks including a first for Sam Bradford, (while the Bears picked up Jordan Howard with a 5th, etc...)

It's why I'm always wary when people make claims about how there's "no good QBs in this draft" or whatever. The fact is that we basically have no earthly idea whether there are or not. Statistically, the 32 first rounders in any year are more likely to pan out well than any other group of 32 players who came in in that year, but on an individual level there's really no telling.

It's also, incidentally, why I find so much of the draft analysis stuff in advance of the draft to be such a massive waste of time. The majority of the analysts are absolute spoofers of the highest order.

mikemac2 · 15-01-2018 08:20PM

Ravens 2013

1st round Matt Elam strong safety from Florida. Called out Calvin Johnson as old and past it, dumb rookie! The team kept him around for his contract but he contributed nothing BUST

2nd round Arthur Brown inside linebacker from Kansas. Fans and the draft gurus loved this pick. A smaller backer but blazing fast and had coverage skills....supposedly because fans never saw him, was a healthy scratch each game week for years. Another bust

3rd round Brandon Williams nose tackle from Missouri. Beast of a run blocker, among the best in the league. Was rewarded with a huge contract and fully deserved

4th round
John Simon linebacker never quite made an impact, went to the Texans and became a starter. Got a decent contract in Indy. Baltimore never made enough with him

Kyle Juszczyk fullback. Saw plenty of snaps and got a big (for a fullback) from San Francisco. The Ravens were never going to pay him but an excellent player

5th round Ricky Wager tackle. I don’t know much about college football but I know Wisconsin produces good linemen. Worked his way to become starter and Detroit made him the highest paid right tackle in the league. That was a great draft pick

Kapron Lewis Moore linebacker - on IR for years, never made it
Mark Anthony cornerback, never made the 53
Aaron Mellette wide receiver, cut in camp. The Ravens never draft good receivers!

Two early round busts, an elite lineman, a starter at offensive line and fullback. Only one left on the team, two others got paid in FA elsewhere

Well decent I guess but some big misses also

phatkev · 15-01-2018 08:21PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Yikes, they really Brown'd that one up. :eek:

Packers in 2013 was an up and down draft - Datone Jones in the first was a definite bust, Lacy in the second might be labelled so but when healthy and fit he was a pretty quality player for us, all pro LT David Bakhtiari in the 4th was phenomenal value (good on the run but the best pass blocker in the entire league in my opinion) while JC Tretter also in the 4th would probably be a starter if not for Corey Linsley the next year impressing so much, and again in the 4th Jonathon Franklin had his career but brutally short by injury (his one NFL game was a 100 yarder on 13 carries).

We also picked up our second all pro DB in consecutive the fifth round only fir Dom Capers to work his magic and make each look distinctly average (Micah Hyde, as with Casey Hayward), and picked up our current starting guard Lane Taylor as a UDFA. From rounds 5-7 we otherwise got Nate Palmer, Kevin Dorsey, Charles Johnson and Josh Boyd who are all either out of the league or career journeymen unlikely to be around in 1-2 years time.

oh it gets worse! the following year they had 12 picks and only two remain, a guard from the 5th round and a wr from the 6th. I'm pretty sure 3 of their first 4 picks without a team!

Lionbacker · 15-01-2018 08:35PM

Lions had a great draft that year in contrast to what most other teams had.
Picked up Ansah, Slay, Riddick & Sam Martin.

bruschi · 15-01-2018 09:53PM

Well as the Patriots are standard bearers for being one of the better teams around, their 2013 draft now is so so. They only have one player left on the roster, Duron Harmon. They did draft Jamie Collins who was a great pick, but something went wrong there considering they shipped him to the Browns for a packet of crisps and a fizzy drink half way through a superbowl season. Logan Ryan was also in that draft, now in Tennesee. I havent seen him play much at all there, so not sure how he is going, but he was a bit part serviceable slot covering corner back that has been easily enough replaced by Eric Rowe. They drafted receivers Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce who were busts. Then you had Michael Buchanon and Steve Beauharnais. Nothing came out of them either.

A so so draft, 3 of them with superbowl rings, 2 of those getting a second ring and one still on the roster.

They signed Blount and Amendola that year in free agency, which was far more impactful IMO. They also signed Joe Vellano and current punter Ryan Allen as undrafted rookies. Same with Kenbrell Thompkins who initially showed huge promise, and they also signed Josh Kilne who won a Superbowl and is now with the Titans.

So really, the out of draft signings were as much, if not more important than the draftees. I know the Patriots draft differently and quite often move out of the first round for more picks at later rounds, but its not an area they seem to focus on in trying to draft a huge star player.

Paully D · 15-01-2018 10:35PM

Doubt it’ll ever happen, but I’d love to see him have another crack at the NFL;

https://twitter.com/finebaum/status/953025071823585280

Trojan · 15-01-2018 10:43PM

McDaniels to Colts being reported now. So much for Titans!

Foxtrol · 16-01-2018 01:47PM

Do all the coordinators still in the running to win this year have to wait until after they are eliminated to officially sign and announce? I know it was the case last season with Shanahan but is it dependent on the team/contract? As a fan last year, it was not a fun process seeing all the other potential names join other teams and watching them fill out their coaching team while you sit and wait.

jack presley · 16-01-2018 02:07PM

https://twitter.com/themichaelgrey/status/953258812168847360

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 16-01-2018 04:22PM

Steelers fans - Is it time for Mike Tomlin to go?

Itssoeasy · 16-01-2018 04:39PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I don't think there's many people who can claim they weren't completely off with their predictions of how various picks would pan out. Just today I was reading on a Bears forum a guy who hates the current GM, and his reasoning was basically as follows:

The Bears drafted Kevin White in the first round a few years ago and this year took in Glennon at 18 million quid. Meanwhile the Vikings drafted Stefon Diggs in the whatever round it was, and got Case Keenum this year for 2 million. Therefore Ryan Pace is a fool and should be shot out of a cannon.

It was pointed out to him that 32 GMs passed on Diggs four times each, and the Vikings also paid 25 million and two draft picks including a first for Sam Bradford, (while the Bears picked up Jordan Howard with a 5th, etc...)

It's why I'm always wary when people make claims about how there's "no good QBs in this draft" or whatever. The fact is that we basically have no earthly idea whether there are or not. Statistically, the 32 first rounders in any year are more likely to pan out well than any other group of 32 players who came in in that year, but on an individual level there's really no telling.

It's also, incidentally, why I find so much of the draft analysis stuff in advance of the draft to be such a massive waste of time. The majority of the analysts are absolute spoofers of the highest order.

The draft and predicting how it will go is not an exact science. I'm wary of the so called "slam dunk" picks as they don't aswell work out.

The analysis before the draft is to fill minutes and column inches for tv and newspapers/online. It's also the off season so they need to talk about anything at all to pass the time.

Bateman · 16-01-2018 04:44PM

But surely teams who waste high picks on players with known personality/baggage issues should be criticised, example Johnny Manziel

brinty · 16-01-2018 05:31PM

Bateman wrote: »

But surely teams who waste high picks on players with known personality/baggage issues should be criticised, example Johnny Manziel

for sure, I for a fact would say almost every year in Dallas we bugger up our second round pick in some fashion i.e personality concerns or injury issues ...
2010 Sean Lee - great pick but a cert to miss 3-6 games a season
2011 Bruce Carter - never lived up to his billing and ACL injury probably brke him
2012 no pick
2013 Gavin Escobar - unmitigated disaster
2014 DeMarcus Lawrence - traded up and only in 2017 showed what he could be after missing significant time through injury
2015 Randy Gregory - spent more time suspended for drug abuse than time playing... another bust
2016 Jaylon Smith - a top five talent but mcl/ acl in final college game ruined his 2016 and still not fully up to the player he was after a full 2017
2017 Chidobe Awuzie - injury for most of first part of the season but hoping he can iprove

Of those 7 picks everyone of them has had an issue or two and I know come april we'll do it all over again. a personality/ injury guy will fall to us and we'll splash on them and try to heal them physically or mentally back to health..

Billy86 · 16-01-2018 06:08PM

To be fair, I'm sure most teams in the league would happily take Sean Lee for 10-13 games a year. Don't get the wrong the injuries have to be frustrating, but he's a phenomenal player in my opinion.

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

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