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Does opposing a United Ireland automatically make you unpatriotic?

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Comments

  • #242
    wotzgoingon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,308 ✭✭✭✭wotzgoingon


    markodaly wrote: »
    Yes, that is lovely. Ethnic cleansing of the North brought to you by keyboard warriors.

    I was just proving a point how easy the IRA could have done that if they were terrorists which they were not.


  • #243
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Before you run off with more notions...if you 'oppose' (which is to actively go against the constitutionally expressed 'will' of the people) you are being unpatriotic.

    The snake oil in Irish politics was accepted by those who didn't oppose partition from the beginning imo.

    That is nice, I await Sinn Fein bring this line to the campaign for a UI. Oppose our viewpoint and your unpatriotic. Will go down a treat with the public. :D


  • #244
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,305 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    That is nice, I await Sinn Fein bring this line to the campaign for a UI. Oppose our viewpoint and your unpatriotic. Will go down a treat with the public. :D

    SF can do what they like. I think it will be self evident, which is why you will not see a single political party in the state opposing it. Actually looks like FG (fecking FG of all parties) will be actively advocating for it.


  • #245
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    wotzgoingon wrote: »
    I was just proving a point how easy the IRA could have done that if they were terrorists which they were not.

    Easy? I don't think so. You obviously know nothing about the logistics about such an operation, never-mind having to go up toe to toe with the BA, UDA, UFF and UVF. As I said, your nothing but a keyboard warrior.


  • #246
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    SF can do what they like. I think it will be self evident, which is why you will not see a single political party in the state opposing it. Actually looks like FG (fecking FG of all parties) will be actively advocating for it.

    Its an aspiration to go for but its an ideal for now. We have to await the details.

    What I am calling out is the stupid nature of this debate, where even opposing the UI makes you unpatriotic. Funny coming from you, as you wanted to police what symbols people wore, a freedom that is granted to all via the constitution.


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  • #247
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,305 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    Easy? I don't think so. You obviously know nothing about the logistics about such an operation, never-mind having to go up toe to toe with the BA, UDA, UFF and UVF. As I said, your nothing but a keyboard warrior.

    I think you might be the misinformed one to be honest, they were able to bring high amounts of explosives into the heart of London during a period of the tightest security the British could manage and bombed their PM in her bed.

    Not glorifying it, but if ethnic cleansing was their goal they could have made a fair shape at it.


  • #248
    wotzgoingon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,308 ✭✭✭✭wotzgoingon


    markodaly wrote: »
    Ethnic cleansing of the North brought to you by keyboard warriors.

    Ethnic cleansing, what about the Indians, the aborigines, the Irish and other places I can't think of off the top of my head and the british may have even been involved in ethnic cleansing of the native Americans.

    I have no idea why you are sticking up for the british if you are really an Irish person to be honest. Mass atrocities of the Irish people, famine no land moved from their home, the bit of money they managed to get paid straight back to foreigners in their own country due to massive rents etc...

    Are you really Irish. I 100% think not and any sane person can see that.


  • #249
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,305 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    Its an aspiration to go for but its an ideal for now. We have to await the details.

    What I am calling out is the stupid nature of this debate, where even opposing the UI makes you unpatriotic. Funny coming from you, as you wanted to police what symbols people wore, a freedom that is granted to all via the constitution.

    :) I wanted to 'police' what symbols people wore? Man, you do have some notions.

    I object to some people wearing symbols that are provocative, which I said goes for provocatively wearing the Easter Lily too.

    Amazing what a snowflake attitude helps you to overlook!


  • #250
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I think you might be the misinformed one to be honest, they were able to bring high amounts of explosives into the heart of London during a period of the tightest security the British could manage and bombed their PM in her bed.

    Not glorifying it, but if ethnic cleansing was their goal they could have made a fair shape at it.

    Nonsense, the reason the PIRA had to used the guerrilla tactics they did because they were unable to do anything else. There was no way the PIRA could have launched some kind of military revolution or uprising in the North. They didn't have the weapons, they didn't have public support, they didn't have the operational capacity.

    If they went toe to toe with the BA, they would have been cut down in a few days, like those in the Easter Rising.

    Even old PIRA heads admit this.


  • #251
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    wotzgoingon wrote: »
    Ethnic cleansing, what about the Indians, the aborigines, the Irish and other places I can't think of off the top of my head and the british may have even been involved in ethnic cleansing of the native Americans.

    I have no idea why you are sticking up for the british if you are really an Irish person to be honest. Mass atrocities of the Irish people, famine no land moved from their home, the bit of money they managed to get paid straight back to foreigners in their own country due to massive rents etc...

    Are you really Irish. I 100% think not and any sane person can see that.

    Im not sticking up for the British, im just calling you out on your bigoted comments, that Irish people cannot be protestants.

    Now, you think that I am not even Irish, of course we are one homogenous hive mind, who all think alike, right? :rolleyes::rolleyes:


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  • #252
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    :) I wanted to 'police' what symbols people wore? Man, you do have some notions.

    I object to some people wearing symbols that are provocative, which I said goes for provocatively wearing the Easter Lily too.

    Amazing what a snowflake attitude helps you to overlook!

    Yes, you clearly stated that people should be forced not to wear the Poppy. That is policing what people wear.


  • #253
    wotzgoingon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,308 ✭✭✭✭wotzgoingon


    markodaly wrote: »
    Im not sticking up for the British, im just calling you out on your bigoted comments, that Irish people cannot be protestants.

    They can be what ever they want to be so long as they do not march over a 100% bigoted march which they never admit to but every sane persons knows they do.


  • #254
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,305 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    Yes, you clearly stated that people should be forced not to wear the Poppy. That is policing what people wear.

    Nonsense. I never mentioned 'forcing' anybody.
    Please try and counter without telling lies.


  • #255
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,305 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    Nonsense, the reason the PIRA had to used the guerrilla tactics they did because they were unable to do anything else. There was no way the PIRA could have launched some kind of military revolution or uprising in the North. They didn't have the weapons, they didn't have public support, they didn't have the operational capacity.
    Which is why they fought a guerilla campaign. They didn't stand on a hill and order young men to their doom as cannon fodder.
    If they went toe to toe with the BA, they would have been cut down in a few days, like those in the Easter Rising.

    Even old PIRA heads admit this.

    :) Of course they would, they were not suicidal.


  • #256
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wotzgoingon wrote: »
    Are you really Irish. I 100% think not and any sane person can see that.

    There's a difference between being Irish and falling for all the Republican propaganda that we were told as children. I'd rather not blame all British people for the behavior of past generations.

    Frankly, I'd like to think that most Irish people have gotten past the knee-jerk hatred of all things British. Obviously, you haven't.


  • #257
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There's a difference between being Irish and falling for all the Republican propaganda that we were told as children. I'd rather not blame all British people for the behavior of past generations.

    Frankly, I'd like to think that most Irish people have gotten past the knee-jerk hatred of all things British. Obviously, you haven't.

    I thought you said you were leaving because anyone who didn't agree with you was a West Brit not willing to put his life on the line and face a war tribunal?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #258
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The patriotic thing for them to do is to work at making sure their identity (that nobody wants to take away) is respected and catered for. Minorities have nothing to fear in proper democracies.

    Fair enough. But I'd argue that, by being requested to join a united Ireland against their will, they'll already feel that their identity is being taken away. (I'm not saying it is - just that they'll see it that way)

    But it's still patriotic for them to not want anything to do with a united Ireland.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #259
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    I thought you said you were leaving because anyone who didn't agree with you was a West Brit not willing to put his life on the line and face a war tribunal?

    WTF? Quote me. Go on. Find where I said anything even remotely like that.


  • #260
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,305 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Fair enough. But I'd argue that, by being requested to join a united Ireland against their will, they'll already feel that their identity is being taken away. (I'm not saying it is - just that they'll see it that way)

    But it's still patriotic for them to not want anything to do with a united Ireland.

    At the time of a border poll, both identities will be of equal importance. Somebody is going to feel that way when the results are announced.


  • #261
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Deleted User wrote: »
    WTF? Quote me. Go on. Find where I said anything even remotely like that.

    Apologies! Got you completely mixed up with another poster (wotzingoingon - who has posted five times since he said he was leaving) :o

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • #262
    ressem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭ressem


    Another thread with so many mixed up concepts.

    Definition of country in English
    A nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory.
    (26 county Republic of Ireland.)

    Definition of patriotism
    The quality of being patriotic; devotion to and vigorous support for one's country.

    So no, using those, if a citizen reasons that expanding the borders of the country will cause hurt to the nation and her people, patriotism says that they should oppose it.
    Constitutions representing the aims of the people should not be treated as unchangeable. Aren't we voting to remove article 41.2 this year?

    Being part of the geographic island of Ireland is not an all-encompassing reason to expand the state, any more than our nation being part of the geographic british isles and British-Irish council.


  • #263
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Nonsense. I never mentioned 'forcing' anybody.
    Please try and counter without telling lies.

    Sure.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105121778&postcount=171
    If you insist on wearing it after you are asked not to. That is 'forcing it' by definition.

    Is the burka being worn to offend? I don't think so, but nice of you to introduce something completely unrelated.


  • #264
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    wotzgoingon wrote: »
    They can be what ever they want to be so long as they do not march over a 100% bigoted march which they never admit to but every sane persons knows they do.

    Eh, What?

    I think you better stop posting as your posts are becoming unreadable and illegible. Lay off the COD as well.


  • #265
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,305 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    markodaly wrote: »
    Sure.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105121778&postcount=171

    That is referencing somebody 'forcing' the poppy on somebody else who has requested them to remove it. It is not advocating 'forcing' somebody not to wear the poppy just for the hell of it.

    Try again. (Can't believe you trawled that thread only to find that :D:D:D)


  • #266
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,389 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    wotzgoingon wrote: »
    I was just proving a point how easy the IRA could have done that if they were terrorists which they were not.

    Of course the IRA were terrorists, in the same way that the UVF and their ilk on the other side were terrorists. You saying that they weren't terrorists doesn't actually make it fact when years of evidence clearly proves otherwise.


  • #267
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,305 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Zaph wrote: »
    Of course the IRA were terrorists, in the same way that the UVF and their ilk on the other side were terrorists. You saying that they weren't terrorists doesn't actually make it fact when years of evidence clearly proves otherwise.

    All players used 'terror' in the conflict. Ask the people of Derry or Dublin and Monaghan affected, about it.


  • #268
    ressem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭ressem


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    All players used 'terror' in the conflict. Ask the people of Derry or Dublin and Monaghan affected, about it.

    Terrorism:
    The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

    Yeah Dublin / Monaghan was terrorism, supposed to be a lash out against Sunningdale agreements. And claims that 4 or 5 UVF members that carried them out were also members of the british security forces have been made.

    No that does not mean 'all players' used terror since the 60s.
    No it does not excuse the IRA and their spinoffs murdering, maiming, threatening innocent civilians in the north, in the Republic and in britain. That is terrorism.


  • #269
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    All players used 'terror' in the conflict. Ask the people of Derry or Dublin and Monaghan affected, about it.

    ... or Guildford, or Birmingham, Warrington or Omagh ...

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #270
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,611 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #271
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,305 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    ressem wrote: »
    Terrorism:
    The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

    Yeah Dublin / Monaghan was terrorism, supposed to be a lash out against Sunningdale agreements. And claims that 4 or 5 UVF members that carried them out were also members of the british security forces have been made.

    No that does not mean 'all players' used terror since the 60s.
    No it does not excuse the IRA and their spinoffs murdering, maiming, threatening innocent civilians in the north, in the Republic and in britain. That is terrorism.

    There are numerous examples of the British engaging in unlawful acts and as players in the conflict/war.
    The victims of their particular violence can legitimately call rhem terrorists as a result.

    All players utilized terror to achieve their aims. The simple harsh reality of a conflict/war.
    The word applied to one side is redundant and meaningless.


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