Breaking: At least 1 man dead after stabbing rampage in Dundalk

annaindundalk · 05-01-2018 12:41AM

splinter65 wrote: »

You couldn’t find the post I was replying too, so didn’t know the context of my reply and then failed to interpret any of it properly and thus have interpreted it all wrong.
And apparently you think that’s my fault and not your own.
Ok.

My post was referring to ArthurDayne not you.

weldoninhio · 05-01-2018 12:53AM

So the cops can say that it’s not terrorism at the moment, but they don’t even have a notion where the scumbag is from. Perhaps the Keystone Cops should be renamed An Garda Siochana.

Noel82 · 05-01-2018 01:02AM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Thread has died a bit of a death since the guy rejected being Islamic in court.

A moral victory for the Islam apologists indeed. It makes zero difference to me, he was an illegal immigrant from a backwards arse culture that shouldn't have been here and committed an atrocity.

Ask yourself one question, is Europe a better place now compared to 10 years ago pre mass immigration from these countries that indulge a culture that's prehistoric in comparison to ours and brews terrorism. All the whataboutery about Christianity and the IRA won't change the answer.

Dank Janniels · 05-01-2018 01:08AM

Is it whataboutery to say more people have been killed by republican and loyalist attacks than muslim 1s? Didnt a guy get charged afew months ago for planting a bomb on a bus in the midlands

4068ac1elhodqr · 05-01-2018 01:16AM

Noel82 wrote: »

Ask yourself one question, is Europe a better place now compared to 10 years ago pre mass immigration from these countries that indulge a culture that's prehistoric in comparison to ours and brews terrorism. All the whataboutery about Christianity and the IRA won't change the answer.

It's such a great event, they majority of one of the founders of the European project decided on June '16 that they actually wanted to leave the party early.

They're still looking for the exit signs, and sure may well never find their way out. Said they didn't like the music, drinks or something, or the company of the new guests.

I've seen Italy looking out the window and looking at their watch too. Denmark looks a bit uneasy and Sweden in the corner keeps getting chatted up.

ArthurDayne · 05-01-2018 01:16AM

AllForIt wrote: »

You think the issue of the effects of immigration on our country should be considered and measured by the number deaths that arise from it? That's just plain daft and I'd hope intelligent ppl on all sides of the debate would agree with that.

Not to give your silly points too much credibility by addressing them but it has to said their is a war on smoking, bad driving and alcohol consumption ongoing in this country which I'm sure your aware.

The issue of immigration and even considering it from the point of view of 'which' people should be allowed in is a valid concern imo. I wish it wasn't but the pragmatic side of me says it is.

Well I must apologise for compelling you to waste your time addressing my 'silly points'.

In any case, to answer your first question -- well no, that's not what I said. This thread relates to the murder of a young man by an immigrant/asylum seeker. There are contributors suggesting that this murder testifies that Ireland needs to (using some examples given throughout), end immigration, close our borders including the border with the North, reject multiculturalism, take a much tougher stance on immigration policy etc etc. My point is simply that most of these points of view are highly disproportionate to the actual issue we face. Messing around with our borders and drastically overhauling our immigration policy would have costs involved and may affect our ability to attract international expertise into our workforce. Our immigrant population is an overwhelmingly peaceful one, Muslims included, and there is simply no need to allow hysteria to force our hand into drastic changes.

And yes, there is a war on smoking and alcohol and bad driving. But we aren't calling for a ban on tobacco sales, the vetting of alcoholics' receipts to make sure they aren't buying alcohol, or reducing the national speed limit to 50. Our tackling of these issues is done on a basis of proportionality -- you weigh up what can be done without taking unnecessarily drastic action. That is my point on immigration -- we must be proportionate in how we approach our policy. There is no need to completely lose the run of ourselves and adopt a policy of isolationism.

As for your last point -- our immigration policy already does this. We do not have an unlimited open immigration policy and we are not part of Schengen. I agree that we must always be seeking ways of improving our ability to detect and deal with illegal immigrants -- but there is no magic wand to do it. We need sensible approaches that don't involve shutting our doors to the EU and the rest of the world. We tried economic autarky under Dev ---- it didn't go too well.

Tell me how · 05-01-2018 01:22AM

Noel82 wrote:

A moral victory for the Islam apologists indeed. It makes zero difference to me, he was an illegal immigrant from a backwards arse culturethat shouldn't have been here and committed an atrocity.

Ask yourself one question, is Europe a better place now compared to 10 years ago pre mass immigration from these countries that indulge a culture that's prehistoric in comparison to ours and brews terrorism.All the whataboutery about Christianity and the IRA won't change the answer.

Let me guess, you're not a rascist, you're just worried about the safety of innocent people.

ThisRegard · 05-01-2018 01:33AM

Noel82 wrote: »

A moral victory for the Islam apologists indeed.

You're a hoot.

Where's your IRA talk coming from, what's that got to do with anything in this thread?

Just because the small mindedness demonstrated by posters in threads like this entertains and amuses me doesn't mean I'm all for open borders and immigration.

That's the problem with people like yourself and those that thanked your post, you think you live in a world where everything is either black or white.

bloodless_coup · 05-01-2018 01:36AM

Tell me how wrote: »

Let me guess, you're not a rascist, you're just worried about the safety of innocent people.

What aspect of the text you bolded lead you to label him a racist?

I think certain people must get a hard on by calling others racist. Does it make you feel good? Does it give you the sense that you are superior, a more intelligent, forward thinking being. More evolved? Sounds like the notions of a racist to me!

Il Fascista · 05-01-2018 01:37AM

Tell me how wrote: »

Let me guess, you're not a rascist, you're just worried about the safety of innocent people.

Are you, with a straight face, trying to claim that Islamic culture isn't backwards?

Noel82 · 05-01-2018 01:37AM

Tell me how wrote: »

Let me guess, you're not a rascist, you're just worried about the safety of innocent people.

That's all you and others like you can do, shout racist. The great feminist Government Sweden are running out of words to use, they're not working anymore.

The middle east, for the most part, is a shíthole and the culture found in majority Muslim countries is stone age compared to the Western world.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

"Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, poll finds."

So let me ask you, do you believe Women and Homosexuals should have the same human rights as men? You can't pick and choose, it's one or the other. Be careful though, you don't want to be labeled racist.

bloodless_coup · 05-01-2018 01:44AM

Il Fascista wrote: »

Are you, with a straight face, trying to claim that Islamic culture isn't backwards?

He must agree with the principles of Islamic culture, therefore he's a sexist and homophobe. They don't integrate with others too well either so you can add racist to the list.

Tell me how · 05-01-2018 01:59AM

doylefe wrote:

I think certain people must get a hard on by calling others racist. Does it make you feel good? Does it give you the sense that you are superior, a more intelligent, forward thinking being. More evolved? Sounds like the notions of a racist to me!

You don't understand the meaning of the word "rascist" do you?

Il Fascista wrote:

Are you, with a straight face, trying to claim that Islamic culture isn't backwards?

There are some backwards people in all cultures. Is Islamic culture entirely backward? You know my answer. What's yours?

Noel82 wrote:

The middle east, for the most part, is a shÃthole

I'm sure the people living there wouldn't agree with you.
They'd much rather their countries weren't going through wars forcing them to leave I suppose.

ArthurDayne · 05-01-2018 02:02AM

Noel82 wrote: »

That's all you and others like you can do, shout racist. The great feminist Government Sweden are running out of words to use, they're not working anymore.

The middle east, for the most part, is a shíthole and the culture found in majority Muslim countries is stone age compared to the Western world.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

"Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, poll finds."

So let me ask you, do you believe Women and Homosexuals should have the same human rights as men? You can't pick and choose, it's one or the other. Be careful though, you don't want to be labeled racist.

Of course Europe is miles ahead of the Islamic religious states in terms of tolerance, equality and prosperity. Why do you think that is? Why do you think it is that Europe went from a God awful hotbed of Imperialism which crapped over most of the world, including Ireland, to a complete and total genocidal war zone ...and then became one of the most peaceful and prosperous regions on Earth?

It opened up.

In the flurry to bring in cheap labour from former colonies to rebuild its infrastructure after the war, to the eventual breaking down of borders under the European Union, Europe managed to go from a continent which, among other things, witnessed the attempted systematic extermination of the Jewish people, to a continent of integration and multiculturalism. Through co-existing with other peoples and mixing cultures, Europeans learned that diversity is something to be embraced, not something to be feared. Muslims have been coming to Europe for years, long before the Syrian Civil War. They have lived in Europe peacefully and there has been no slide backwards in Europe's progressivism as their population has increased.

Tell me how · 05-01-2018 02:02AM

Noel82 wrote:

So let me ask you, do you believe Women and Homosexuals should have the same human rights as men? You can't pick and choose, it's one or the other. Be careful though, you don't want to be labeled racist.

Of course they should. They always should. So we're ahead of Islamic culture in this respect by a couple of decades we get to be entirely sanctimonious and righteous do we.

bloodless_coup · 05-01-2018 02:10AM

Tell me how wrote: »

You don't understand the meaning of the word "rascist" do you?

"rascist"? Never heard of that word no.

If you are going to try and come across as a condescending prick, you really need to get your spelling spot on.

ThisRegard · 05-01-2018 02:11AM

Noel82 wrote: »

is a shíthole and the culture found in majority Muslim countries is stone age compared to the Western world.

1990s, relatively recently, we were stone aged ourselves.

Tell me how · 05-01-2018 02:13AM

doylefe wrote:

If you are going to try and come across as a condescending prick, you really need to get your spelling spot on.

Feisty aren't you.

Noel82 · 05-01-2018 02:17AM

Tell me how wrote: »

Of course they should. They always should. So we're ahead of Islamic culture in this respect by a couple of decades we get to be entirely sanctimonious and righteous do we.

Gays were being thrown off buildings and Women were forced to cover themselves up in black heat seeking garments in Ireland 20 years ago were they? You're talking out of your arse. Check liveleak or other sites to actually see what goes on in these countries on a regular occurrence as forms as punishment. It's utterly barbaric and it wasn't happening in Ireland 200 years ago, let alone 20.

You like the rest, want to appear as the moral authority while at the same defend a culture that directly contradicts the rights you seek to defend. For those reasons you are a hypocrite and because people of similar hypocrisy have gotten into power Politically, it's only a matter of time - not when parts of Europe being to emulate this great culture that only needs a couple of decades to sort itself out, even though every trend in history points the other way. We are already seeing it.

Bravo.

ChikiChiki · 05-01-2018 02:18AM

Tell me how wrote: »

Let me guess, you're not a rascist, you're just worried about the safety of innocent people.

Non extremist common sense views getting shouted down as racist all too often nowadays. In my opinion these people are extremists trying to shut down debate and need to be evaluated.

take everything · 05-01-2018 02:28AM

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Of course Europe is miles ahead of the Islamic religious states in terms of tolerance, equality and prosperity. Why do you think that is? Why do you think it is that Europe went from a God awful hotbed of Imperialism which crapped over most of the world, including Ireland, to a complete and total genocidal war zone ...and then became one of the most peaceful and prosperous regions on Earth?

It opened up.

In the flurry to bring in cheap labour from former colonies to rebuild its infrastructure after the war, to the eventual breaking down of borders under the European Union, Europe managed to go from a continent which, among other things, witnessed the attempted systematic extermination of the Jewish people, to a continent of integration and multiculturalism. Through co-existing with other peoples and mixing cultures, Europeans learned that diversity is something to be embraced, not something to be feared. Muslims have been coming to Europe for years, long before the Syrian Civil War. They have lived in Europe peacefully and there has been no slide backwards in Europe's progressivism as their population has increased.

The banlieues in France are a good argument against muddle-headed attempts at integration.

And your post seems to be similarly unthinkingly in favour of the muddle-headed version.

Why not apply analysis and avoid the banlieues example repeating elsewhere

Tell me how · 05-01-2018 02:28AM

Noel82 wrote:

Gays were being thrown off buildings and Women were forced to cover themselves up in black heat seeking garments in Ireland 20 years ago were they? You're talking out of your arse. Check liveleak or other sites to actually see what goes on in these countries on a regular occurrence as forms as punishment. It's utterly barbaric and it wasn't happening in Ireland 200 years ago, let alone 20.

I refer you my earlier post.

Tell me how wrote:

There are some backwards people in all cultures.

I don't for a second excuse any of those acts but I think they are committed by extremists. I suspect you think everyone in that culture is capable of doing those deeds.

Noel82 wrote:

You like the rest, want to appear as the moral authority while at the same defend a culture that directly contradicts the rights you seek to defend. For those reasons you are a hypocrite and because people of similar hypocrisy have gotten into power Politically, it's only a matter of time - not when parts of Europe being to emulate this great culture that only needs a couple of decades to sort itself out, even though every trend in history points the other way. We are already seeing it.

I don't want to appear as anything but I feel it's important to challenge falsehoods and misleading views. I'd rather not be posting here at all but it annoys me to read nonsense dressed up as fact.

AllForIt · 05-01-2018 02:31AM

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Well I must apologise for compelling you to waste your time addressing my 'silly points'.

In any case, to answer your first question -- well no, that's not what I said. This thread relates to the murder of a young man by an immigrant/asylum seeker. There are contributors suggesting that this murder testifies that Ireland needs to (using some examples given throughout), end immigration, close our borders including the border with the North, reject multiculturalism, take a much tougher stance on immigration policy etc etc. My point is simply that most of these points of view are highly disproportionate to the actual issue we face. Messing around with our borders and drastically overhauling our immigration policy would have costs involved and may affect our ability to attract international expertise into our workforce. Our immigrant population is an overwhelmingly peaceful one, Muslims included, and there is simply no need to allow hysteria to force our hand into drastic changes.

And yes, there is a war on smoking and alcohol and bad driving. But we aren't calling for a ban on tobacco sales, the vetting of alcoholics' receipts to make sure they aren't buying alcohol, or reducing the national speed limit to 50. Our tackling of these issues is done on a basis of proportionality -- you weigh up what can be done without taking unnecessarily drastic action. That is my point on immigration -- we must be proportionate in how we approach our policy. There is no need to completely lose the run of ourselves and adopt a policy of isolationism.

As for your last point -- our immigration policy already does this. We do not have an unlimited open immigration policy and we are not part of Schengen. I agree that we must always be seeking ways of improving our ability to detect and deal with illegal immigrants -- but there is no magic wand to do it. We need sensible approaches that don't involve shutting our doors to the EU and the rest of the world. We tried economic autarky under Dev ---- it didn't go too well.

I totally agree that this thread has been more than a bit on the hysterical side (on both sides) but I found your line of arguments re death comparisons equally daft.

I agree generally with you sentiments in your first paragraph there however I don't agree with your overall point because what you seem to be suggesting is that NO action or policies should be taken whatsoever, given the current situation. I am not asking for a ban on Muslim immigrants, that's just absurd, but I do think the situation needs to be looked at so that we in Ireland do not have to suffer the same atrocities that have occurred in England. To suggest that we shouldn't be concerned about such an event because the chances of being a victim of such is lower than winning the lottery seems to me to be an attempt to belittle and trivialise such events. I'm sure the family of the victim doesn't just think 'oh well, these kinda things just happen, it's life'.

Noel82 · 05-01-2018 02:35AM

Tell me how wrote: »

I don't want to appear as anything but I feel it's important to challenge falsehoods and misleading views. I'd rather not be posting here at all but it annoys me to read nonsense dressed up as fact.

Is Europe in a better place today than a decade ago?

ArthurDayne · 05-01-2018 02:39AM

take everything wrote: »

The banlieues in France are a good argument against muddle-headed attempts at integration.

And your post seems to be similarly unthinkingly in favour of the muddle-headed version.

Why not apply analysis and avoid the banlieues example repeating elsewhere

The banlieues in France, where I actually lived for a time, and amazingly emerged from without joining a gang or a terrorist organisation, are the precise example of how you do not go about integration. But the banlieues emerged purely as a 'place to put workers' and were allowed to snowball into ghettoisation. The European understanding of multiculturalism and integration has moved on a lot since then. The evidence ? That Europe is very multicultural but has remained one of the most peaceful and prosperous regions in the world. Races, religions and cultures co-exist peacefully while Europe remains at the forefront of social progress and a leading light in intellectual development.

Tell me how · 05-01-2018 02:44AM

Noel82 wrote:

Is Europe in a better place today than a decade ago?

Given that the financial collapse happened a decade ago, yes. Probably.

I'd bet more died from suicide due to difficulties arising from the collapse than from terrorism acts within Europe.

Also, only 0.5% of all deaths from terrorism have occurred in western countries in the last 15 years. These include Europe, US and Australia.

Tell me how · 05-01-2018 02:47AM

ChikiChiki wrote:

Non extremist common sense views getting shouted down as racist all too often nowadays. In my opinion these people are extremists trying to shut down debate and need to be evaluated.

Is this an example of a non-extremist common sense view?

Noel82 wrote:

A moral victory for the Islam apologists indeed. It makes zero difference to me, he was an illegal immigrant from a backwards arse culture that shouldn't have been here and committed an atrocity.

Ask yourself one question, is Europe a better place now compared to 10 years ago pre mass immigration from these countries that indulge a culture that's prehistoric in comparison to ours and brews terrorism. All the whataboutery about Christianity and the IRA won't change the answer.

And you're calling someone challenging that as the extremist.....

Dont know what to say about that. Smh.

Noel82 · 05-01-2018 02:55AM

Tell me how wrote: »

Given that the financial collapse happened a year ago, yes. Probably.

I'd bet more died from suicide due to difficulties arising from the collapse than from terrorism acts within Europe.

Also, only 0.5% of all deaths from terrorism have occurred in western countries in the last 15 years. These include Europe, US and Australia.

Talking about the economy was a poor attempt at a dodge.

I'm talking about safety wise, culturally, socially. It's all out there and it's undeniable fact. Without the Police security and intelligence services Europe would be in big trouble. Here's a couple of examples, the social and culture problems are another subject but well known.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/14/uk-terror-arrests-rise-68-record-level-during-year-attacks

"The number of people arrested for terrorism-linked offences rose 68% to a record 379 in the 12 months to June, one of the most intense periods for terrorist attacks in recent history.

The Home Office said it was the highest number of terrorist arrests in a year since records began in 2001."

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-terrorism-prosecution-cases-soar-report/a-41065442

German federal prosecutors have opened up more than 900 terrorism-related cases so far this year, including 800 related to radical Islamists, according to a report published in the German language nespaper Welt am Sonntag on Sunday.

The number of terrorism cases has jumped nearly four-fold compared to last year, when federal prosecutors opened about 250 proceedings. In 2013, there were about 80 terrorism cases in the courts.

https://www.europol.europa.eu/newsroom/news/2017-eu-terrorism-report-142-failed-foiled-and-completed-attacks-1002-arrests-and-142-victims-died

Although there was a large number of terrorist attacks not connected with jihadism, the latter accounts for the most serious forms of terrorist activity as nearly all reported fatalities and most of the casualties were the result of jihadist terrorist attacks. Explosives were used in 40% of the attacks and women and young adults, and even children, are playing increasingly operational roles in committing terrorist activities independently in the EU. Most arrests were related to jihadist terrorism, for which the number rose for the third consecutive year.

Tell me how · 05-01-2018 03:02AM

Noel82 wrote:

Talking about the economy was a poor attempt at a dodge.

You asked a question. I answered it. Sorry if it didn't fit within the confines you want to focus on to have your argument.

Noel82 wrote:

I'm talking about safety wise, culturally, socially. It's all out there and it's undeniable fact. Without the Police security and intelligence services Europe would be in big trouble. Here's a couple of examples, the social and culture problems are another subject but well known.

That's pretty unique insight you have there. Good job all societies have used law enforcement since day one.

Good night. I'm out.

Noel82 · 05-01-2018 03:05AM

Tell me how wrote: »

You asked a question. I answered it.

Good night. I'm out.

You were being disingenuous, you knew what I meant. When the facts come out people like you disappear. No doubt you'll be back tomorrow telling everyone how great Europe is doing and everything that says otherwise is sensationalized right wing rubbish.

The funniest part was your claim Islamic culture is only 20 years behind Ireland's, I had a great chuckle at that.

Breaking: At least 1 man dead after stabbing rampage in Dundalk

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