47.9% of NI would back a United Ireland in the event of a 'hard Brexit'

tomwaterford · 01-01-2018 09:58PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Not true.

People before Profit and the Green Party are also All-Ireland parties.

So Is the 32 county soverity movement and eirigi...come to think of it....so are republican sinn fein

Jayop · 01-01-2018 10:08PM

blanch152 wrote: »

The IRA campaign had an unintended side-effect. Northern Ireland became another place, a place where Southerners just didn't go anymore. A separation between North and South occurred, nearly as deep as that between nationalist and unionist. Demanding that we welcome you into a united Ireland will not close that separation.

I just love how you can stick the head in the sand and blame only the IRA for southerners not coming up north. What do you think the average southerner was more afraid of? The IRA or the forces of occupation and their civilian terrorist branches?

blanch152 · 01-01-2018 10:12PM

Jayop wrote: »

I just love how you can stick the head in the sand and blame only the IRA for southerners not coming up north. What do you think the average southerner was more afraid of? The IRA or the forces of occupation and their civilian terrorist branches?

I can tell you what they were afraid of - terrorist attacks mostly IRA ones. Northern Ireland became a no-go area during the 1970s and 1980s thanks to the IRA, two decades of lost tourism and lost FDI.

Jayop · 01-01-2018 10:19PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I can tell you what they were afraid of - terrorist attacks mostly IRA ones. Northern Ireland became a no-go area during the 1970s and 1980s thanks to the IRA, two decades of lost tourism and lost FDI.

Them goal posts fairly move easily for you when the nonsense gets called out. We're not talking about FDI or tourism. We're talking about what made Southern Irish stop coming to the north. Firstly that didn't happen, it may have slowed up thanks to the hassle you had at the border but plenty from the south still came north. Secondly you decided to put the blame completely on the IRA when the fact is that the average person from the south will have been more afraid of the state forces and loyalist paramilitary forces.

Stop talking nonsense.

Junkyard Tom · 01-01-2018 10:30PM

murphaph wrote: »

Mostly it's the siege mentality

That's a unionist thing.

and inability to understand the perspective of others.

Inability to respect the culture of 'the Gael', that's a unionist thing.

They are also easily riled up over trivial things.

Fleggers. Unionists.

The one side feels the need to be more British than the British.

Unionists.

The other side feels the need to be more Irish than the Irish.

Not true.

It's a distinctly Northern Irish phenomenon that makes the two sides more like each other than the countries they cling to.

So their differences are what makes them similar? Cool story.

If Brexit is soft this whole UI talk will die down as the Catholics in the north's massive public service breathe a massive sigh of relief and continue voting SF but never intending to vote for unification.

I agree somewhat with that, in the short term at least.

murphaph · 01-01-2018 10:48PM

The siege mentality only applies to unionists?! Lol. That's why both sides have voted themselves into a corner with the DUP and SF. There are more moderate parties available for all to vote for but both sides choose the extreme option. Siege mentality. Them or us.

tomwaterford · 01-01-2018 10:55PM

murphaph wrote: »

The siege mentality only applies to unionists?! Lol. That's why both sides have voted themselves into a corner with the DUP and SF. There are more moderate parties available for all to vote for but both sides choose the extreme option. Siege mentality. Them or us.

Have you seen how terribly the UUP and sdlp perform in debates...

.if free state electorate was as willing to abandon blind party loyalty and punish poor debate performers....the dail might not be shambles it is most nights during debate

blanch152 · 01-01-2018 10:58PM

murphaph wrote: »

The siege mentality only applies to unionists?! Lol. That's why both sides have voted themselves into a corner with the DUP and SF. There are more moderate parties available for all to vote for but both sides choose the extreme option. Siege mentality. Them or us.

You see it on here when they turn on their fellow Irishmen if they deviate even a little from the "unionists are all to blame" tirade.

01-01-2018 10:59PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Not true.

People before Profit and the Green Party are also All-Ireland parties.

FFS they are hardly considered parties in the Republic, never mind in NI, and certainly not going to suddenly change their standing in a UI.

SF will become a dominant force in early United Irish politics, capable of leading a government if UI comes to happen

Charles Babbage · 01-01-2018 11:01PM

murphaph wrote: »

The one side feels the need to be more British than the British. The other side feels the need to be more Irish than the Irish.

This is complete nonsense. One group want a 17th century version of Britishness, the other simply want to be normal Irish people. What is so strange about wanting to be normal in your own country?

blanch152 · 01-01-2018 11:11PM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

This is complete nonsense. One group want a 17th century version of Britishness, the other simply want to be normal Irish people. What is so strange about wanting to be normal in your own country?

Except they don't want to be normal Irish people. Normal Irish people are tolerant of other cultures, normal Irish people don't want to impose their own culture on others, normal Irish people don't want to bring people with them, not force them somewhere.

The gap between the North and South in terms of values is a chasm.

And, as I have said before nationality is no longer defined by territory, or country. You can be Polish in Ireland, you can be Irish in the UK. There are no particular Irish rights that are denied to Irish people living in the UK. The single outstanding issue - language - can be solved on a bipartisan basis, with recognition to both traditions for their imported revived languages.

tomwaterford · 01-01-2018 11:20PM

blanch152 wrote: »

And, as I have said before nationality is no longer defined by territory, or country.

Yes it is

Anyone born anywhere in ireland is irish by birth.....this may upset all the orangemen (and other racists who don't like kids not of tradional irish ethicity being called irish)....but there Irish nonetheless

Unless you want to jump down a very narrow rabbit hole limed with sectarianism and racism,

Jayop · 01-01-2018 11:20PM

blanch152 wrote: »

You see it on here when they turn on their fellow Irishmen if they deviate even a little from the "unionists are all to blame" tirade.

Honestly from the man who's just been called out in the last hour for again blaming nationalists for everything the irony is beyond belief.

murphaph · 01-01-2018 11:26PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Yes it is

Anyone born anywhere in ireland is irish by birth.....this may upset all the orangemen (and other racists who don't like kids not of tradional irish ethicity being called irish)....but there Irish nonetheless

Unless you want to jump down a very narrow rabbit hole limed with sectarianism and racism,

Those born in NI are entitled to identify as Irish, or British or both. They are not automatically Irish. The GFA is worth a read.

murphaph · 01-01-2018 11:27PM

Jayop wrote: »

Honestly from the man who's just been called out in the last hour for again blaming nationalists for everything the irony is beyond belief.

He blamed the IRA and let's be quite honest...the IRA was mostly to blame.

ancapailldorcha · 02-01-2018 12:19AM

Posts deleted. No more of the one-liners and sniping please.

Sidey is not to post here again.

Junkyard Tom · 02-01-2018 01:03AM

murphaph wrote: »

The siege mentality only applies to unionists?!

I could find numerous well researched articles in books and journals on Unionism's siege mentality yet, bizarrely, you've taken something that Unionism is renowned for and try to foist it upon Irish people living in Ireland.

murphaph wrote: »

Lol.

Loyal Orange Orders?

murphaph wrote: »

He blamed the IRA and let's be quite honest...the IRA was mostly to blame.

The Provos were a symptom, the disease was Unionism's treatment of the minority.

murphaph · 02-01-2018 01:42AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I could find numerous well researched articles in books and journals on Unionism's siege mentality yet, bizarrely, you've taken something that Unionism is renowned for and try to foist it upon Irish people living in Ireland.

Loyal Orange Orders?

The Provos were a symptom, the disease was Unionism's treatment of the minority.

Give it a rest Tom. Unionists took the p1ss for a long time but the situation when the IRA killed its last victim was very different than in 1969. Any objective observer can see that.

Junkyard Tom · 02-01-2018 01:58AM

murphaph wrote: »

Give it a rest Tom.

No.

Unionists took the p1ss for a long time but the situation when the IRA killed its last victim was very different than in 1969.

I agree but the point I made stands. The Provos were a symptom of the disease not the disease itself.

Any objective observer can see that.

Any objective observer would see that Unionist politicians are still at it when it comes to denial of rights/norms that people in Britain and Ireland enjoy.

Equal marriage? Blocked by DUP/UUP.
Irish Language Act? Blocked by DUP/UUP.
Truth recovery? Frustrated by DUP/UUP.

Unionist politicians are still trying to run the place like it's theirs. 'If you feed a crocodile' Arlene's statement gives us a little insight into how a DUP politician thinks, they think they control the food and they'll dole it out as they see fit.

murphaph · 02-01-2018 02:09AM

With all the bickering is it any wonder enthusiasm for a UI isn't more than lukewarm in the south?

We've been listening to this garbage of he said she said for decades and there's no sign of it abating. It's kind of boring for most of us in the south.

Charles Babbage · 02-01-2018 02:11AM

blanch152 wrote: »

Except they don't want to be normal Irish people. Normal Irish people are tolerant of other cultures, normal Irish people don't want to impose their own culture on others, normal Irish people don't want to bring people with them, not force them somewhere.

The gap between the North and South in terms of values is a chasm.

Normal Irish people live in all 32 counties. Some remain coerced by the British while others "I'm alright Jack" types like to sneer at them for that even though they would not be at all happy to have the British back in their own town. It is a bit like the people of Monastrevin sneering at the people of Adare for campaigning for a bypass.

Can you give me a concrete example of the "chasm" in values between people in Blacklion and people in Belcoo. Not vacuous nonsense but actual differences. Perhaps the people in Blacklion are more interested in cooking?

Kermit.de.frog · 02-01-2018 02:18AM

In reference to the quote from a Sinn Féin politician in the article in the OP.

I find it disconcerting that Sinn Féin pretend to be pro EU despite having been against every single EU treaty ever put forward.

It's a lie and political opportunism at it's worst.

GalwayMark · 02-01-2018 02:19AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

In reference to the quote from a Sinn Féin politician in the article in the OP.

I find it disconcerting that Sinn Féin pretend to be pro EU despite having been against every single EU treaty ever put forward.

It's a lie and political opportunism at it's worst.

They supported remain due to the potential hard border and they're left wing Eurosceptic not Europhobic like the Tory Hard right, UKIP.

murphaph · 02-01-2018 02:51AM

SF is a Marxist party that would prefer it if the whole of Ireland was out of the EU. For that reason alone I hope the Irish people never entrust them with real power.

GalwayMark · 02-01-2018 03:04AM

murphaph wrote: »

SF is a Marxist party that would prefer it if the whole of Ireland was out of the EU. For that reason alone I hope the Irish people never entrust them with real power.

Well no major party including SF want Ireland to leave the EU. I have certain problems with their party affiliation and positions. Hopefully can move towards the centre or away from the left fringe within due course but I'd give them any chance over the establishment parties any day.

Kermit.de.frog · 02-01-2018 03:49AM

GalwayMark wrote: »

Well no major party including SF want Ireland to leave the EU. I have certain problems with their party affiliation and positions. Hopefully can move towards the centre or away from the left fringe within due course but I'd give them any chance over the establishment parties any day.

I hear phrases like "elites" and "establishment" nowadays and i'm wondering can you tell me what they mean?

The parties that be are the parties voted for by the vast majority. If there was a demand there would be other options.

No matter who is elected they will be part of the "elite" or "establishment".

Think these terms are a load of infantile, emotive, dishonest nonsense to be honest.

And if we are dealing with an "establishment" are you not concerned that the problems you may see may be infinitely worse with a radical alternative? A right or left wing "radical" alternative could lead to a lot of misery and suffering.

Most people are center status quo and safe so it's hardly going to happen anyway.

FrancieBrady · 02-01-2018 10:46AM

murphaph wrote: »

SF is a Marxist party that would prefer it if the whole of Ireland was out of the EU. For that reason alone I hope the Irish people never entrust them with real power.

Never knew that SF wanted all of Ireland out of the EU. Can you back that up with relevant quotes?

blanch152 · 02-01-2018 12:16PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Never knew that SF wanted all of Ireland out of the EU. Can you back that up with relevant quotes?

I know people admire Sinn Fein for sticking to their policies, but this article shows how they have changed over the years in relation to the EU.

http://brocairebooks.ie/wp/blog/sinn-fein-and-the-european-union/

The juxtaposition of quotations from Boris Johnson, Marine Le Pen and SF election material is delightfully ironic. From fiercely opposing joining the EC in 1972 to its current position, Sinn Fein has travelled a long way.

FrancieBrady · 02-01-2018 12:25PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I know people admire Sinn Fein for sticking to their policies, but this article shows how they have changed over the years in relation to the EU.

http://brocairebooks.ie/wp/blog/sinn-fein-and-the-european-union/

The juxtaposition of quotations from Boris Johnson, Marine Le Pen and SF election material is delightfully ironic. From fiercely opposing joining the EC in 1972 to its current position, Sinn Fein has travelled a long way.

And?
Want to review how other parties positions on issues have 'changed' over time?
Shocking revelations there again blanch152. :rolleyes:

murphaph · 02-01-2018 06:38PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Never knew that SF wanted all of Ireland out of the EU. Can you back that up with relevant quotes?

SF is a wolf in sheep's clothing. They would say mass to get their way. The EU goes against their core principles but that didn't bother them as it allowed the border to become invisible. It is just a useful tool to SF but they absolutely do not believe in it. They are a nationalist party after all.

47.9% of NI would back a United Ireland in the event of a 'hard Brexit'

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