Body of Alan Hawe to be exhumed

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

It is pretty sickening when a murderer is remembered more than the victims

In particularly infamous or gruesome murders the murderer or murderers will often be well remembered

Think mark chapman, moors murderers, ted bundy etc

Nothing particularly unusual at that

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

It is pretty sickening when a murderer is remembered more than the victims

The Independent referring to Clodagh as " his wfe " is bad journalism . She deserves to be called by her name Clodagh . As so the boys Liam , Niall and Ryan .
So let's remember them by name on this thread . Rest in peace Clodagh , Liam , Niall , and Ryan .

Playing devil's advocate here, but there seemed to be a great push in society in recent years to understand mental illness.

However, this case, as extreme as it was, seems to have thrown out the rulebook. He was just an evil monster apparently, not a man suffering severe mental illness.

NIMAN wrote: »

Playing devil's advocate here, but there seemed to be a great push in society in recent years to understand mental illness.

However, this case, as extreme as it was, seems to have thrown out the rulebook. He was just an evil monster apparently, not a man suffering severe mental illness.

If youre not willing to read through the thread before posting perhaps this explanation will help you:

He had his reasons.

It appears the whole "fall from grace" thing was in his own head.

He was "head of a church going family", etc. To people like Hawe, a marriage breakdown would be considered a huge shame. He probably didn't want to have to fit the role of divorced Dad of 3. There were obviously issues in the marriage if he was attending marriage guidance counselling too.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

" A Reason " does not necessarily rule out him being a cruel and controlling man .

The article seems to argue that his reasons make it highly likely he was a cruel and controlling man. It also emphasises the prejudice we have both about 'respected' men and the victorian misconception that people who commit despicable acts must be mentally ill.

Awful for Clodagh's mam, sister and remaining family. They are left with no closure, yet Hawe's parents gain some closure with the "psychotic break" theory

bobsman wrote: »

Awful for Clodagh's mam, sister and remaining family. They are left with no closure, yet Hawe's parents gain some closure with the "psychotic break" theory

I think these cases need to be assessed for motive probably both in the inquest and also by an overall view and analysis of many cases.
The inquest is the only means of finding out what happenned. Killers who survive nearly always go down for murder. Killers who succeed in their suicide always are given the 'maybe mentally ill' cover.
Lesson for would be mass murderers is make sure the suicide is successful and your legacy is safe.
I think people are seeing Hawe for what he is based on media reports in this case.

There seem to be an awful lot of people who are obviously more qualified then myself, someone who suffered/still at times suffers from severe depression, that have decided that Alan Hawe was evil personified. Maybe he was, but none of us know definitively what happened or what was his state of mind. For the person who said he used the word "I" a lot in the suicide note, that's what depression does. It makes you isolated, insular and depending on the severity, that "everyone is against me". In my opinion, ( and I am no expert, just someone who has suffered episodes of psychosis) there is no way that the actions of Alan Hawe were those of a sane person. It would not surprise me if something happened that put him over the edge. Professor Patricia Casey said this morning that , in her opinion, this was a psychotic episode. Alan Hawe's GP said he didn't show any symptoms of depression. Well, neither did I. Only those in my immediate family ( my wife) could see that something was wrong. I, for one, am not qualified to either pronounce him insane nor evil. I just know, from my own experience that I lean towards mental illness ( or maybe I won't allow myself to believe that such evil exists) and I think "there goes me only for the grace of god".

Aside from the facts of the case, I really hope that there are supports available for the Gardai in cases like this, such as paid leave and counselling. It all comes part & parcel of the job, but at the end of the day they're only human and I cannot imagine the horror of having to enter that house and see four innocent people so cruelly and senselessly murdered, and the lasting memories and emotional scars that would leave.

Gardai (and other first responders) who are first on murder or crash scenes should be automatically considered for paid leave if recommended by a psychologist IMO.

I think he was evil not so much because of the murders but the manner of the murders. He butchered them. His lovely wife had a hatchet in her head. His beautiful boys had their throats slit. I just cannot get that out of head that he deliberately stabbed them through the windpipe to prevent them calling for help, that he made sure he took out the strongest first, that he made sure his family were the ones to benefit financially. He even referenced murdering them in his suicide note, there was no sense of taking them to a better place or anything like that. What he did was pure savagery, he deserves to rot.

BinLiner2 wrote: »

Didn't think much of the parents statement tbh

Also noted they didn't bother to attend the inquest

They were not to blame for their sons actions . And any parent will try to protect themselves from the pain of knowing their son was an evil cruel man by trying to find a reason . Maybe they were not at the inquest so the Colls didnt have to face them or for many other good reasons . In no way should any fault be lain at his familys feet in my opinion .