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Saorview Connect

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Comments

  • #1532
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    The Cush is a top guy and has helped and given so much good advice to many posters on these forum's.

    No need for the offensive language/name calling, its not welcome here.

    (PS. My apologies to the Tech mods if my post is interfering.)


    To be honest, I couldn't agree more. That's why I was annoyed by the rudeness shown to the bloke from EKT.

    The box isn't what you all convinced yourselves it would be. There's no need to take your frustration out on the guy trying to explain why that's the case.


  • #1533
    channelsurfer2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    I wont be buying it. I doubt they will sell more than a couple of hundred of the boxes. No internal HDD for 200e?, No real satellite list option or putting the one list of channels together like even a basic FTA box. Most new TV's now have either RTE player or tv3 player. It's basically a redundant box that would be more at home in 2007.


  • #1534
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    That is only true if the 7 day EPG must be Freesat.
    There were, and are, non-Freesat options to achieve the same functionality, which are not licence encumbered.

    I'm not being smart, but I am not aware of of any (commercially) available data sets (via XMLTV?) that would allow for unlicensed access without placing a recurring financial burden on the consumer.

    If there is something that is available, I would be genuinely interested in knowing about it.


  • #1535
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    dubrov wrote: »
    The switching process between satellite and Saorview is hardly due to licencing issues..

    It is just bad design or more likely because that is how it has been implemented for other markets where users rarely switch between the two.

    My point was that it was the lack of a combined EPG that was the main reason that this box was receiving such a slamming* .. so in a way you are agreeing with me.

    *and that the lack of a combined EPG was largely down to licensing (notwithstanding the poorly designed solution as it stands by all accounts). I have not used the box but it doesn't sound great.


  • #1536
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    If there is no solution to the one button switching I think I will just get a freesat box.

    The satellite side of the box still lacks even the basic 'back to previous channel' function.

    ...

    Have you tried pressing the "0" button? ... this has the recall effect on some systems.


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  • #1537
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,950 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    I'm not being smart, but I am not aware of of any (commercially) available data sets (via XMLTV?) that would allow for unlicensed access without placing a recurring financial burden on the consumer.

    If there is something that is available, I would be genuinely interested in knowing about it.

    Why must it be 'commercially available'?

    The necessary data is freely available.

    This is a 'connected' box running their own software/firmware (or should be).

    It is not a big job to add a file to their server (which is already necessary for the functions of this box) containing the necessary data that the box could download once per day to provide the user with a 7 day EPG for Satellite channels (and Terrestrial channels).

    ##################

    In truth, they could even have used something like *LibreELec with a few plugins like tvheadend, and the necessary hardware, to produce a box that has all the capabilities needed, except their catch-up/roll-back.

    With a little effort that could have been added via a plugin, requiring registration or whatever they need to control it.

    With a bit more effort they could produce their own 'branded' skin for Kodi and made it all look 'Saorview professional', while providing all the functions that users expect at this time.

    I never did see the necessity for involving Freesat, especially as it was only for part of the potential functions of the box.

    * LibreElec is only used as an example. There are other similar, maybe better, options.


  • #1538
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,013 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Why must it be 'commercially available'?

    The necessary data is freely available.

    This is a 'connected' box running their own software/firmware (or should be).

    It is not a big job to add a file to their server (which is already necessary for the functions of this box) containing the necessary data that the box could download once per day to provide the user with a 7 day EPG for Satellite channels (and Terrestrial channels).

    ##################

    In truth, they could even have used something like *LibreELec with a few plugins like tvheadend, and the necessary hardware, to produce a box that has all the capabilities needed, except their catch-up/roll-back.

    With a little effort that could have been added via a plugin, requiring registration or whatever they need to control it.

    With a bit more effort they could produce their own 'branded' skin for Kodi and made it all look 'Saorview professional', while providing all the functions that users expect at this time.

    I never did see the necessity for involving Freesat, especially as it was only for part of the potential functions of the box.

    * LibreElec is only used as an example. There are other similar, maybe better, options.

    Is the data freely available though? I know about openepg etc but these are hobbiest projects hosted on Github and Sourceforge. They are fine for individuals and communities such as ours. I wonder though at a larger, commercial scale does intellectual property come into it i.e. are the EPG listings the ip of the individual channels? I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, I'm not entirely sure of the legalities involved myself.


  • #1539
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,950 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Lincoln Important Syllable wrote: »
    Is the data freely available though? I know about openepg etc but these are hobbiest projects hosted on Github and Sourceforge. They are fine for individuals and communities such as ours. I wonder though at a larger, commercial scale does intellectual property come into it i.e. are the EPG listings the ip of the individual channels? I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, I'm not entirely sure of the legalities involved myself.

    Example: Freesat EPG is protected ....... but the data it contains and presents is not as far as I can determine.

    If you have information to the contrary I would like to read it. ;)


  • #1540
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Lincoln Important Syllable wrote: »
    Is the data freely available though? I know about openepg etc but these are hobbiest projects hosted on Github and Sourceforge. They are fine for individuals and communities such as ours. I wonder though at a larger, commercial scale does intellectual property come into it i.e. are the EPG listings the ip of the individual channels? I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, I'm not entirely sure of the legalities involved myself.

    Here's a question for you Lincoln Important Syllable.

    The freesat platform blasts into Ireland. Its not overspill. Overspill happens at borders. When the broadcast pattern swamps the entire country, what happens to the rights of the Irish Broadcasters and the content that they have bought for Ireland. What about the content that Freesat stations have bought from rights holders that extends outside their market ?

    If no heed is taken to the rights that infringe from one territory to another, why should the platform doing the infringing deny access to the EPG data.

    The satellite pattern and position obviously satisfies rights holders for UK broadcast content, but yet RTE have no rights to the same platform on an unencrypted basis.

    We are fairly shíte when it comes to negotiations.


  • #1541
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,013 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Example: Freesat EPG is protected ....... but the data it contains and presents is not as far as I can determine.

    If you have information to the contrary I would like to read it. ;)

    I don't have any such information. I'm just putting forward, what well could be a completely wrong, idea.
    STB. wrote: »
    Here's a question for you navi.

    The freesat platform blasts into Ireland. Its not overspill. Overspill happens at borders. When the broadcast pattern swamps the entire country, what happens to the rights of the Irish Broadcasters and the content that they have bought for Ireland. What about the content that Freesat stations have bought from rights holders that extends outside their market ?

    If no heed is taken to the rights that infringe from one territory to another, why should the platform doing the infringing deny access to the EPG data.

    The satellite pattern and position obviously satisfies rights holders for UK broadcast content, but yet RTE have no rights to the same platform on an unencrypted basis.

    We are fairly sh when it comes to negotiations.

    As I said to Johnboy I don't have any answers. I'm just speculating as to why a box first mentioned here in 2014 and in development before that date has been launched three years later with a sub-standard afterthought for a satellite section. Somebody did not want a full satellite EPG on this box, whether that be Freesat or Saorview themselves is open to speculation and I guess we'll never know the truth.


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  • #1542
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    Why must it be 'commercially available'?

    The necessary data is freely available.

    This is a 'connected' box running their own software/firmware (or should be).

    It is not a big job to add a file to their server (which is already necessary for the functions of this box) containing the necessary data that the box could download once per day to provide the user with a 7 day EPG for Satellite channels (and Terrestrial channels).

    ....

    Its not a big job, that's true. But just because you can do something does not mean you are allowed to.

    My understanding is that the Freesat EPG is copyright data. It is encoded so you need to decode it to make it readable. You and I get it from the transponder via the Freesat epg grabber on tvheadend (which you need to switch on). My understanding is that this is perfectly legitimate for individual use (you, me and lots of other individuals) but it is not allowed to offer this data as a commercial offering. This box is a commercial offering so you can't simply install a module to decode the Freesat data and offer it as an FTA EPG.

    IANAL but that is my layman's understanding of the legal side.


  • #1543
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,950 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    Its not a big job, that's true. But just because you can do something does not mean you are allowed to.

    My understanding is that the Freesat EPG is copyright data. It is encoded so you need to decode it to make it readable. You and I get it from the transponder via the Freesat epg grabber on tvheadend (which you need to switch on). My understanding is that this is perfectly legitimate for individual use (you, me and lots of other individuals) but it is not allowed to offer this data as a commercial offering. This box is a commercial offering so you can't simply install a module to decode the Freesat data and offer it as an FTA EPG.

    IANAL but that is my layman's understanding of the legal side.

    My understanding, as I posted, is that the Freesat EPG presentation of the data is copyrighted to Freesat, but that the data (actual programme data) is not.
    I did not mention scraping the data from the Freesat presentation ..... but I suspect this too would not impinge on any copyright in the Freesat EPG.

    I am open to correction on this if there is anything you (or others) can point to to show the channel programme data is not free to use.
    It certainly is not owned exclusively by Freesat.


  • #1544
    PabloAndRoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    STB. wrote: »

    If no heed is taken to the rights that infringe from one territory to another, why should the platform doing the infringing deny access to the EPG data.

    You are not denied access to the EPG data but you are not allowed to then distribute it in a commercial offering.

    Edit: Remember that Freesat is just the EPG. The FTA broadcast of the actual channels is a separate matter. In the case of this box, the manufacturer are maintaining a list of FTA channels that may or may not have have some resemblance to the channel listing on Freesat.


  • #1545
    kooga
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭kooga


    Was their any black Friday offers on the new Saorview connect box! 😀


  • #1546
    Schorpio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Schorpio


    kooga wrote: »
    Was their any black Friday offers on the new Saorview connect box! 😀

    No, but I think it's day of release was considered a dark day for Saorview.


  • #1547
    lsjmhar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 399 ✭✭lsjmhar


    Do the standard Saorview combi boxes have 7 day epg for Irish terrestrial and UK FTA or is it now and next for UK FTA?


  • #1548
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,421 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    lsjmhar wrote:
    Do the standard Saorview combi boxes have 7 day epg for Irish terrestrial and UK FTA or is it now and next for UK FTA?


    The Saorview Walker Combo added a software update of Satfree which was basically a copy of Freesat.


  • #1549
    lsjmhar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 399 ✭✭lsjmhar


    FRIENDO wrote:
    The Saorview Walker Combo added a software update of Satfree which was basically a copy of Freesat.


    Why can't this be integrated into the new box?


  • #1550
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,421 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    lsjmhar wrote:
    Why can't this be integrated into the new box?


    I don't know, but it should.

    Tha Walker Satfree works of a London postcode.
    It cat be a little glitchey at times.

    I also remember Sat4free set top boxes I bought one in Tesco, think they worked of a NI postcode, worked perfect.


  • #1551
    lsjmhar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 399 ✭✭lsjmhar


    FRIENDO wrote:
    I don't know, but it should.

    FRIENDO wrote:
    Tha Walker Satfree works of a London postcode. It cat be a little glitchey at times.

    FRIENDO wrote:
    I also remember Sat4free set top boxes I bought one in Tesco, think they worked of a NI postcode, worked perfect.


    Maybe this will happen with a future update. An integrated EKT tv with terrestrial and FTA sat with 7day epg and pvr would be a winner. Hooefully this becomes the standard for this new service.


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  • #1552
    galtee boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    kooga wrote: »
    Was their any black Friday offers on the new Saorview connect box! 😀

    Yes, buy one, get two free!! LOL!!


  • #1553
    Cushie Butterfield
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭Cushie Butterfield


    Have to laugh, DID have it reduced in their Black Friday weekend sale but of course they’ve over inflated the original RRP to €229.99 with €30 off bringing it back to €199.99 which is still more 4c dearer than the likes of Power City & Expert who don’t have it reduced at all,

    https://www.did.ie/powerpoint-saorview-connect-box-black-dxd7025svc-dxd7025svc-prd


  • #1554
    Tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,368 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    Indeed and apparently they were threatened with legal action by Freesat for doing so.

    FRIENDO wrote: »
    The Saorview Walker Combo added a software update of Satfree which was basically a copy of Freesat.

    Owner: satellite.ie



  • #1555
    Tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,368 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    Unfortunately that's very unlikely, Freesat will not allow it.

    lsjmhar wrote: »
    Maybe this will happen with a future update. .

    Owner: satellite.ie



  • #1556
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,421 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    Any word on any other manufacture bring out a Saorview Connect Combo?

    Or is Powerpoint the only one?


  • #1557
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    PabloAndRoy wrote: »
    You are not denied access to the EPG data but you are not allowed to then distribute it in a commercial offering.

    Edit: Remember that Freesat is just the EPG. The FTA broadcast of the actual channels is a separate matter. In the case of this box, the manufacturer are maintaining a list of FTA channels that may or may not have have some resemblance to the channel listing on Freesat.

    Remember the very members of the Freesat Consortium are the broadcasters, so they are the one and the same.

    The Freesat members actually moved their original free to air european spot beams to a tighter beam for rights reasons. That tighter beam swamps Ireland and the UK, so that problem hasnt went away. Its just a smaller problem, but these stations are still broadcasting into another jurisdcition. We know theres still an elephant in the room and its not the epg data.

    When you think of the bullshit complaints that have seen the blackout of certain promming in NI and on the Saorsat DTH spot KA beam, YET there is one that continues to be ignored thats even bigger. Its the same one that the Freesat consortium generates epg data for. The epg data TP like the stations blasts into Ireland.

    The EPG data is being witheld by Freesat. It was described earlier in this thread as a commercial decision.


  • #1558
    Pangea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,585 ✭✭✭Pangea


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »

    As I was saying previously if the rte player becomes chromecast enabled for android/ios this box may not appeal to a lot of people.


    The new revamped RTÉ player will support chromecast


  • #1559
    Schorpio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Schorpio


    STB. wrote: »
    Remember the very members of the Freesat Consortium are the broadcasters, so they are the one and the same.

    The Freesat members actually moved their original free to air european spot beams to a tighter beam for rights reasons. That tighter beam swamps Ireland and the UK, so that problem hasnt went away. Its just a smaller problem, but these stations are still broadcasting into another jurisdcition. We know theres still an elephant in the room and its not the epg data.

    They are never going to be able to get a beam tight enough to cover the UK only. They need to cover NI. Added to this is the fact that Sky actively sells some of that FTA data to the Irish market!


  • #1560
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Schorpio wrote: »
    They are never going to be able to get a beam tight enough to cover the UK only. They need to cover NI. Added to this is the fact that Sky actively sells some of that FTA data to the Irish market!

    That is not our problem. WE had to resort to using a KA Beam that barely covers the country and it still wasnt enough. We even had to blank certain programming on the NI Minimux.

    If the freesat consortium are witholding the epg data whilst ignoring the rights infringements/swamp broadcasting then I would say they have their proirities arseways.


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  • #1561
    George Sunsnow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭George Sunsnow


    Is the elephant in the room,satellite encryption with cards tied to a valid UK tv licence?


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