Five dead in Buncrana accident

23-11-2017 9:07pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Then you are not for free speech.

I'm no ghoul looking for all the gory details, but I think a lot of lives could be saved if people really knew what happened in many incidents rather than them being hushed up and forgotten about.

It has been 18 months or more since the incident, if there are lessons to be learned then stop with the censorship and let people learn them.

People know damn well the risks involved driving with drink taken. What lessons could be learned? What "good" as another poster mentioned, could possibly come from the inquest verdict? At the end of the day a family died tragically. A woman is broken. A man will forever carry the moment he saw in to that car.

May the rest in peace.

tomwaterford · 23-11-2017 9:10pm

Blingy wrote: »

I read somewhere else he had been out the night before so therefore may not have actually been drinking that day. Who knows. Such a terrible tragedy. The poor family.

To be 3 times over the limit the following evening....mustve been a serious session the night before

bucketybuck · 23-11-2017 9:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

People know damn well the risks involved driving with drink taken. What lessons could be learned? What "good" as another poster mentioned, could possibly come from the inquest verdict? At the end of the day a family died tragically. A woman is broken. A man will forever carry the moment he saw in to that car.

May the rest in peace.

Rubbish. It is incredibly foolish to think that inquests serve no purpose, that there is nothing to learn from tragic incidents.

gctest50 · 23-11-2017 9:20pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

.........What lessons could be learned? What "good" as another poster mentioned, could possibly come from the inquest verdict? .......

Stay away from slipways with your car unless you're putting a boat in or out would be the best to come out of it

Traction Control won't save you if there's no traction

Hannibal_Smith · 23-11-2017 9:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

People know damn well the risks involved driving with drink taken. What lessons could be learned? What "good" as another poster mentioned, could possibly come from the inquest verdict? At the end of the day a family died tragically. A woman is broken. A man will forever carry the moment he saw in to that car.

May the rest in peace.

It may sound naiive but those slipways, I never appreciated how slippy they are. A few weekends ago my eldest was admiring a dog swimming in a river and he took a step towards the slipway. I let a shout at him to get off it, because buncrana came to mind. There was no algae on the part he stepped on...but I knew he'd be tempted to move down further and it would be slippier there. May sound a bit naive as I say, and I wouldn't drive a car onto one, but I did learn something from hearing the tragedy.

23-11-2017 9:30pm

I don't think posts about how over the limit the man was or "oh God he must have been on some session" and the like are in anyway useful.

retro:electro · 23-11-2017 9:31pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't think posts about how over the limit the man was or "oh God he must have been on some session" and the like are in anyway useful.

Agreed. The man is dead. His kids are dead.
His mother in law is dead.

Can people not just let this one go?

rustynutz · 23-11-2017 9:34pm

Am I right in saying that the legal limit of 50mg is as little as one unit of alcoholic? That being the case he had a pint and a half in his system, 2 pints at the most. Hardly what you would call drunk, particularly if he was a regular drinker and had a tolerance for alcohol.

Usual sensationalist sh1te on the front pages of the papers today, like the family hasn't suffered enough. The inquest concluded that the alcohol only MAY have been a factor that day, along with the open gate to the pier, algae on the pier and the fact the car doors couldn't open once in the water.

A lot of people on here up on their usual high horses here too, the man paid the ultimate price for the decisions he made on that day, circumstances conspired against them. His last moments must have been horrific, along with his families, may they rest in peace.

splinter65 · 23-11-2017 9:35pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't think posts about how over the limit the man was or "oh God he must have been on some session" and the like are in anyway useful.

You’d never know. There could be someone reading this who will say “ I’m not getting into the car with him/her anymore when he/she has had drink”.
Or someone going for a drive this weekend could say “don’t go near that pier”.
It’s very sad for the survivors. Nothing can change what happened.
I don’t think anyone here is being disrespectful .

bucketybuck · 23-11-2017 9:42pm

rustynutz wrote: »

Am I right in saying that the legal limit of 50mg is as little as one unit of alcoholic? That being the case he had a pint and a half in his system, 2 pints at the most. Hardly what you would call drunk, particularly if he was a regular drinker and had a tolerance for alcohol.

I think the sequence that led to this incident could be illuminating. Rather than giving figures of blood alcohol, what if people knew that for example he had 2 drinks at dinner time, and then in a good mood after a happy time with the kids went down to the pier for whatever reason.

Such details hammer home the risks to others in a way that "3 times the limit" can't do any more. People would see a good man who did something that they may have done a hundred times and it could make them think twice the next time. If even one life is saved by such links then it is worth it.

And thats without even getting into details such as how far down a pier is too far? Or what else could have been done to save more lives?

_Dara_ · 23-11-2017 9:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think posts about how over the limit the man was or "oh God he must have been on some session" and the like are in anyway useful.

The "session" comment was just in response to someone saying he might have been three times over the limit from drinking the night before. It's very unlikely considering the accident happened in the latter part of the day.

23-11-2017 9:45pm

splinter65 wrote: »

You’d never know. There could be someone reading this who will say “ I’m not getting into the car with him/her anymore when he/she has had drink”.
Or someone going for a drive this weekend could say “don’t go near that pier”.
It’s very sad for the survivors. Nothing can change what happened.
I don’t think anyone here is being disrespectful .

I just find that these threads can sometimes lack heart for the tragedy itself. There have been so many awful accidents in the past and there will sadly be more in the future. That's the nature of being human. Flawed. Discussing the amount the man drank, whether or not there were other substances taken, if there's more than meets the eye, all seems a bit cold to me.

anewme · 23-11-2017 9:47pm

An inquest process must be completely transparent. All circumstances that led to the accident have to be clearly disclosed. If there was something wrong with the car for example and someone wanted to not disclose that, there would be public outcry.

The fact that Mr. McGrotty was three times over the drink driving limit is a relevant factor and must be Disclosed when investigating how this happened.

All facts have to be disclosed, irrespective of how unpalatable they are.

Your heart would go out to Mrs. McGrotty and her little daughter and everyone effected by the tragedy, in my opinion but the inquest is totally necessary.

The inquest is not judgemental, it just states facts.

SEPT 23 1989 · 23-11-2017 9:52pm

unless he hit the water at speed how did they all not get out he had only four pints on board

Is misadventure the nice way of saying things?

retro:electro · 23-11-2017 9:52pm

Nobody is saying the inquest was unnecessary. It's the public dissection of it here people find unpalatable.

embraer170 · 23-11-2017 9:55pm

I know nothing about inquests but I am amazed at how this ends up as death by “misadventure”.

Driving a car with your entire family when you are 3 times above the legal limit is no misadventure.

I feel horribly for the family and think of them anytime I go near a slipway but real cause of this tragedy has to get out there to stop similar things from happening.

tomwaterford · 23-11-2017 9:57pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't think posts about how over the limit the man was or "oh God he must have been on some session" and the like are in anyway useful.

Pointing out the naivety of believing he was 3 times over limit was from few drinks the night before...is no way useful to anyone either?

A family are dead coz he went down a slipway while impaired,anything else is a pure coverup

I've family friend who have been in jail for killing people drink driving (think theres even a thread on here about it)hiding facts and opioions helps noone?

embraer170 · 23-11-2017 9:59pm

http://www.80mg.org.uk/guide.html

3 times the 80mg limit would be 240mg. If the above link is to be believed, that would probably be 6 or more pints.

gctest50 · 23-11-2017 9:59pm

Greg Hanna told the BBC that last August he was launching a boat into Lough Swilly from the same pier when his car slipped on the algae.

Mr Hanna, an experienced diver of 19 years and the former regional coach of the British Sub-Aqua club in Ireland, explained that the Buncrana pier slipway is unlike conventional harbour slipways that gently slope down to the seabed.

“At the water’s edge there’s a ledge, which is probably designed to prevent the car ferry’s hull hitting the bottom of the slipway.”

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2016/03/24/scuba-diver-my-hell-on-buncrana-slipway-during-frightening-incident-last-year/

.

23-11-2017 10:02pm

It does seem that there is some playing down of the impairment of the father. The state pathologist gives evidence that he was 3 times over the drink drive limit but wouldn’t be drawn on what impairment this could cause as “everybody is different”

I would think that if the father had survived there would be more anger at this but the enormity of the tragedy has led to a playing down of tough realities.

John_Rambo · 23-11-2017 10:03pm

embraer170 wrote: »

I know nothing about inquests but I am amazed at how this ends up as death by “misadventure”.

Driving a car with your entire family when you are 3 times above the legal limit is no misadventure.

I feel horribly for the family and think of them anytime I go near a slipway but real cause of this tragedy has to get out there to stop similar things from happening.

I'm not at all keen on people drink driving but I'm aware anyone with half a clue about uncleaned and uncared for slips after a warm winter will know the difference between three drinks and zero drinks will make zero impact on the traction between the four tyres and the algae covered concrete incline.

Tragically the car was going in to the water no matter what the sadly deceased drank, smoked or ate.

There's been an inquest. That's the result. Misadventure. You may have more info, I doubt it, but that's verdict.

23-11-2017 10:04pm

tomwaterford wrote: »

Pointing out the naivety of believing he was 3 times over limit was from few drinks the night before...is no way useful to anyone either?

A family are dead coz he went down a slipway while impaired,anything else is a pure coverup

I've family friend who have been in jail for killing people drink driving (think theres even a thread on here about it)hiding facts and opioions helps noone?

Yes that's right a family is dead. Due perhaps to one man's decision to drive. No doubt that decision haunted him when he was passing his baby out of the window.

Also "coverup"? This isn't a movie. This is a real family who suffered an awful tragedy.

For Forks Sake · 23-11-2017 10:04pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

unless he hit the water at speed how did they all not get out he had only four pints on board

Is misadventure the nice way of saying things?

If memory serves me right, he was in an Audi Q7 which weighs nearly 2.5 tonnes unladen, weight of that combined with the design of the pier would've meant it sank very fast.

embraer170 · 23-11-2017 10:06pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'm not at all keen on people drink driving but I'm aware anyone with half a clue about uncleaned and uncared for slips after a warm winter will know the difference between three drinks and zero drinks will make zero impact on the traction between the four tyres and the algae covered concrete incline.

Tragically the car was going in to the water no matter what the sadly deceased drank, smoked or ate.

I don't know about you but after 6 pints, my judgement is impaired and I am more likely to do something stupid.

Without 6 or more pints, he may not have ended up in the situation in the first place. Without 6 pints, he might have reacted differently after his car ended up in the water.

The problem here was not the uncleaned and uncared for slip.

John_Rambo · 23-11-2017 10:08pm

embraer170 wrote: »

I don't know about you but after 6 pints, my judgement is impaired and I am more likely to do something stupid.

Without 6 or more pints, he may not have ended up in the situation in the first place. Without 6 pints, he might have reacted differently after his car ended up in the water.

The problem here is not the uncleaned and uncared for slip.

It clearly was. It's a structure designed for vehicles to drive up and down towing large object, sometimes with the rear wheels submerged. In this case a four wheel drive modern car couldn't even park on it without sliding down to the water and further in to be submerged.

Edit - who told you he had six pints?

embraer170 · 23-11-2017 10:11pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

It clearly was.

The root cause was whatever caused him to decide that driving on the slip was a good idea. A contributory factor might have been the state of the slip.

Edit - The legal limit is 80mg. The inquest was told he was three times above the legal limit. That is 240mg or the equivalent of 6 pints for a normal sized male (not even accounting for the alcohol the body processes while drinking). http://www.80mg.org.uk/guide.html

anewme · 23-11-2017 10:11pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

It clearly was.

Without any alcohol would Mr. mcGrotty haven driven onto the slipway at all? We did not know, but it would certainly be considered when reaching the verdict.

SEPT 23 1989 · 23-11-2017 10:12pm

As soon as that vehicle started sliding the doors should have been opening

Unless you were comatose the natural reaction is to get out

JupiterKid · 23-11-2017 10:12pm

Very tragic and sad accident. As a recovering alcoholic, this is what drink driving does to people and families.

It utterly destroys lives.

tayto lover · 23-11-2017 10:15pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

It clearly was. It's a structure designed for vehicles to drive up and down towing large object, sometimes with the rear wheels submerged. In this case a four wheel drive modern car couldn't even park on it without sliding down to the water and further in to be submerged.

Edit - who told you he had six pints?

Who told you he only had three?

Five dead in Buncrana accident

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