Mens Rights Thread

Middle Man · 19-11-2017 09:22PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

While that guy does seem to be an unpleasant sort, Im not sure that having separate awareness campaigns for men and women is a good thing. Obviously the clinical issues can be different for both, but if its raising awareness I think its wrong to raise the issue for men to the exclusion of women.

I also think that international mens day is a bit of a silly idea. Its too general and as such leads to confusion, resulting in odd messages from the rubberbands about genital hygene and crying!

...and it's also wrong of females to raise health and wellbeing issues to the exclusion of men!

...if an international men's day is silly, then so too is International Women's Day!

johnnyskeleton · 19-11-2017 09:38PM

Middle Man wrote: »

...and it's also wrong of females to raise health and wellbeing issues to the exclusion of men!

...if an international men's day is silly, then so too is International Women's Day!

International womens day is about women not being allowed to vote, dress how they want, retain their genital intact etc in various different parts of the world.

The stuff about mansplaining, manspreading tumbler feminism etc is silly, and its a shame that it seems to gain traction in America (and by proxy, the rest of the West). If that was what international womens day was about, or if it was about raising non-gender specific issues as being gender specific then Id agree it would be silly.

But no I dont think international womens day is silly. As long as there are places in the world whose laws discriminate against women based solely or mainly on their gender, there is a need for a specific campaign for womens rights.

Middle Man · 19-11-2017 09:46PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

International womens day is about women not being allowed to vote, dress how they want, retain their genital intact etc in various different parts of the world.

The stuff about mansplaining, manspreading tumbler feminism etc is silly, and its a shame that it seems to gain traction in America (and by proxy, the rest of the West). If that was what international womens day was about, or if it was about raising non-gender specific issues as being gender specific then Id agree it would be silly.

But no I dont think international womens day is silly. As long as there are places in the world whose laws discriminate against women based solely or mainly on their gender, there is a need for a specific campaign for womens rights.

In most day to day situations of ordinary people, men and women are equal and feminism has served its purpose. In fact, the radical feminism is doing great damage regarding the perception of women by creating a them and us situation - this vacuum creates very ideal conditions for the promotion of neo-machismo ideology.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2017 09:52PM

Middle Man wrote:

...what an arsehole IMHO! Men have just as much right to raise concerns about their wellbeing as women do!

Of course they do. John waters has also earned a lot of abuse for the bullshyte he spouts over the years.

I thought the fella might be gay which would give him good reason to be annoyed with waters given his spiteful position on gay marriage. I can't see any good reason to abuse anyone on the street though. Bad behaviour.

Gay men are men too and Waters was actively opposed to those men's right to marry. While he's entitled to voice his opinion, I don't think he can be too surprised that he has burned his bridges with some men who's rights he campaigned against.

He's in favour of some men's rights and against other men's rights. Imagine if he opposed gay marriage because of Feminism. Silverharp's twitter search for feminists opposing men's rights, would explode.

johnnyskeleton · 19-11-2017 09:55PM

Middle Man wrote: »

In most day to day situations of ordinary people, men and women are equal and feminism has served its purpose.

Id agree with that, in the west for the most part certainly

In fact, the radical feminism is doing great damage regarding the perception of women by creating a them and us situation - this vacuum creates very ideal conditions for the promotion of neo-machismo ideology.

Also agree. Modern western feminism is basically cultural marxism whether its individual participants intend it to be or not. Basically, the idea is to divide society over any percieved issue and then present solutions to gain support.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2017 09:58PM

Actually this year's official message is focused on health so its not that confusing at all. Anyone can promote any message they like, but the official message is on health. So the rubber bandits message on genital hygiene is actually pretty close to he bone, if you'll excuse the pun.
There were a few events in my city and they were focused on men's health

The general awareness messages should include men and women but the specific message on IMD should be about men's issues

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2017 10:05PM

johnnyskeleton wrote:

International womens day is about women not being allowed to vote, dress how they want, retain their genital intact etc in various different parts of the world.

The stuff about mansplaining, manspreading tumbler feminism etc is silly, and its a shame that it seems to gain traction in America (and by proxy, the rest of the West). If that was what international womens day was about, or if it was about raising non-gender specific issues as being gender specific then Id agree it would be silly.

But no I dont think international womens day is silly. As long as there are places in the world whose laws discriminate against women based solely or mainly on their gender, there is a need for a specific campaign for womens rights.

Oh no no! You're dead wrong . That line of argument would be valid if men and women had no legitimate issues of concern in Ireland today. But they do. Men have genuine issues that affect them, and so do women. If you think the difference in health outcomes, education, suicide, work related accidents, treatment in the penal system, family courts, aren't important to men, then your point might stand. I do think those points are important and should be addressed so I think you're wrong on that.

That sort of guff should put you in opposition to a lot of the locals in these threads - it probably won't of course because they don't generally discuss issues about men. Feminism can get them all frothy, but actual men's issues are not discussed so much.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2017 10:11PM

johnnyskeleton wrote:

Also agree. Modern western feminism is basically cultural marxism whether its individual participants intend it to be or not. Basically, the idea is to divide society over any percieved issue and then present solutions to gain support.

If you took that view seriously, you'd also end up arguing against the men's right movement too. I think the men's rights movement is important and I don't hold it against feminists for want of to promote their issues either.

It's not your dad's football team. You don't have to pick a side and pretend they're flawless while the other side is meritless. You can just support the things you agree with and not support the things you don't agree with.

johnnyskeleton · 19-11-2017 10:19PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Oh no no! You're dead wrong . That line of argument would be valid if men and women had no legitimate issues of concern in Ireland today. But they do. Men have genuine issues that affect them, and so do women. If you think the difference in health outcomes, education, suicide, work related accidents, treatment in the penal system, family courts, aren't important to men, then your point might stand. I do think those points are important and should be addressed so I think you're wrong on that.

Those issues are important to people. Theyre not gender issues though. It is an important but often overlooked fact that just because there is a difference in outcomes doesnt mean that there has been discrimination. I really dont see how this is in any way controverisal.

johnnyskeleton · 19-11-2017 10:23PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If you took that view seriously, you'd also end up arguing against the men's right movement too. I think the men's rights movement is important and I don't hold it against feminists for want of to promote their issues either.

See above where I called international mens day a bit silly. I dont agree with the mens rights movement either, for the exact same reasons.

It's not your dad's football team. You don't have to pick a side and pretend they're flawless while the other side is meritless.

Can you show me where I did any of that?

lazybones32 · 19-11-2017 10:39PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Obviously the clinical issues can be different for both, but if its raising awareness I think its wrong to raise the issue for men to the exclusion of women.!

I think it is essential to raise awareness seperately. Men communicate, think and act differently to women, so a 'one size fits all' approach won't work. Putting women in a circle to talk will work; men prefer to speak shoulder to shoulder.

Look at ads aimed towards women and compare them to ads aimed towards men. Very different audience. Specific tact and approach necessary.

Calhoun · 19-11-2017 11:02PM

Interesting to see that Waters get attacked, admittedly he is a controversial figure i would have more to argue with him than i would agree with him.

I was wondering why people were slating the fathers rights, it all makes sense now. However i also think the reason we need an international men's day and advocacy groups is because of the vitriol against it.

Interestingly enough i bet most political parties have a womans working group but nothing for men.

johnnyskeleton · 19-11-2017 11:03PM

lazybones32 wrote: »

I think it is essential to raise awareness seperately. Men communicate, think and act differently to women, so a 'one size fits all' approach won't work. Putting women in a circle to talk will work; men prefer to speak shoulder to shoulder.

Look at ads aimed towards women and compare them to ads aimed towards men. Very different audience. Specific tact and approach necessary.

Again, those are reasons to treat them differently in a clincial setting. It isnt a good enough reason to campaign separately for mental health issues.

To my mind, making it about gender takes away from the message.

lazybones32 · 20-11-2017 09:04AM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Again, those are reasons to treat them differently in a clincial setting. It isnt a good enough reason to campaign separately for mental health issues.

To my mind, making it about gender takes away from the message.

But men are dying at 3 to 4 times the rate of women from suicide.
Men can get breast cancer too. Should a genderless approach be taken, even though females are more likely to get it? This isn't a case of 'us V them' but a male-targetted campaign is needed.

silverharp · 20-11-2017 09:26AM

also given that the environment is so pro feminist , I don't think it would be helpful to have male issues filtered through feminist language and ideas. Do you really want to hear male suicide being linked to "partriarchy" and toxic masculinity which if you round it up seems to be "why don't men behave more like women <sigh>"

El_Duderino 09 · 20-11-2017 09:46AM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Those issues are important to people. Theyre not gender issues though. It is an important but often overlooked fact that just because there is a difference in outcomes doesnt mean that there has been discrimination. I really dont see how this is in any way controverisal.

There doesn’t need to have been discrimination. It signifies a need for gender specific solutions. Why are boys not performing as well in school as girls? No discrimination implied in the question, but it is a gender issue

El_Duderino 09 · 20-11-2017 09:50AM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

See above where I called international mens day a bit silly. I dont agree with the mens rights movement either, for the exact same reasons.

It's not your dad's football team. You don't have to pick a side and pretend they're flawless while the other side is meritless.

Can you show me where I did any of that?

I didn’t say you said it. I was pointing out that you can see some aspects as being a bit silly and other aspects to as being extremely useful. It doesn’t make the whole IMD event or men’s rights movement silly.

lazybones32 · 20-11-2017 09:53AM

silverharp wrote: »

also given that the environment is so pro feminist , I don't think it would be helpful to have male issues filtered through feminist language and ideas. Do you really want to hear male suicide being linked to "partriarchy" and toxic masculinity which if you round it up seems to be "why don't men behave more like women <sigh>"

I think the whole approach to getting men to talk is based on the female model. The method that works for them won't necessarily have the same success with men. So yeah, i see residues of the 'get in touch with your feminine side' tactic involved. Not saying it is a deliberate attempt but it shows little understanding of how men operate and communicate.

seamus · 20-11-2017 10:04AM

Middle Man wrote: »

...what an arsehole IMHO! Men have just as much right to raise concerns about their wellbeing as women do!

If it's *that* John Waters, then the guys was clearly having a go at Waters, not at International Mens' Day.

Waters's attitude to women, women's mental health, women's rights and Sinead O'Connor in particular, is nothing short of scumbaggery behaviour.

F4J should ditch him if they want any credibility. Putting him anywhere near the top of their bill will only cause the entire group to be written off as cranks.

If you're looking for an example of a good father who's been screwed over by the system, Waters is as far from that as you can find.

Skullface McGubbin · 24-11-2017 02:03PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Also agree. Modern western feminism is basically cultural marxism whether its individual participants intend it to be or not. Basically, the idea is to divide society over any percieved issue and then present solutions to gain support.

Indeed. And the same could be said about political correctness in general.

iptba · 02-12-2017 02:27AM

iptba wrote: »

https://twitter.com/F4JOfficial/status/932019716171927552

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/shocking-sosmandown-campaign-highlights-mental-11544705

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZSVoMLY2VM

(2 minutes)

iptba · 03-12-2017 07:27PM

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

#InternationalMensDay

#BWOTY17
Business Woman of the Year Awards

#NoSmallChange
National Women’s Council of Ireland event on gender pay gap

#GenderMatters
@EducateTogether Gender Matters Ethical Education Conference.
incl. gender and sports

#FemFest
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is in Liberty Hall opening the @NWCI’;s #FemFest. The young women, aged 16 to 25, gathering in Liberty Hall will discuss women in #leadership, violence against women, #health #equality and #reproductiverights among other issues affecting #women.

#16Days2017
Action to Eliminate Violence Against Women and Girls

#SfBWomenInSport
@SportforBusines Women in Sport Conference

El_Duderino 09 · 03-12-2017 10:47PM

iptba wrote: »

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

#InternationalMensDay

#BWOTY17
Business Woman of the Year Awards

#NoSmallChange
National Women’s Council of Ireland event on gender pay gap

#GenderMatters
@EducateTogether Gender Matters Ethical Education Conference.
incl. gender and sports

#FemFest
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is in Liberty Hall opening the @NWCI’;s #FemFest. The young women, aged 16 to 25, gathering in Liberty Hall will discuss women in #leadership, violence against women, #health #equality and #reproductiverights among other issues affecting #women.

#16Days2017
Action to Eliminate Violence Against Women and Girls

#SfBWomenInSport
@SportforBusines Women in Sport Conference

If nothing else it shows what can be done when people band together and work to promote issues that are important to them.

iptba · 13-12-2017 07:17PM

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

#inclusiveucd
UCD equality conference. On gender, I only saw presentations saying women were at a disadvantage

#solidariTEA
Students&staff supporting their 4 colleagues in fight to have gender discrimination addressed at NUIG. Join us to show #solidariTEA 10am to 12pm, Thurs, 7 Dec
3 years these brave women have been holding NUIG to account for #genderdiscrimination. Join us as we show our support and solidarity. Equality Coffee morning, 10am to 12pm, Thursday 7 December, Orbsen lobby. Not in Galway? Join us in raising a cup on twitter. #solidariTEA

#JusticeForWomen
Justice for Women
Irish observatory on violence against women. Chaired by NWCI. [Aside: @justice4women (UK)
Feminist organisation challenging law, policy and practice relating to male violence where women are discriminated against.]

#morewomen
@women4election Xmas year end review
Women for Election is a non-partisan non-profit that trains women to enter politics.

On same hashtag, an Irish person quoted this article:
"when women win elections, everyone wins"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/06/iceland-women-government-better-for-mothers-america-lessons

https://twitter.com/DeirdreMortell/status/941017102370197506

Calhoun · 13-12-2017 07:46PM

Dont see anything wrong with the last one. Who posted the link though?

iptba · 13-12-2017 08:05PM

Calhoun wrote: »

Dont see anything wrong with the last one.

You don't see any problem with the view:
"when women win elections, everyone wins"?

Or do you mean the setting up of the women's causus in the Oireachtas? I thought I'd just highlight that in case anyone missed it.

Or do you mean the whole item? I just post all the threads, doesn't mean I'm criticising them all.

Calhoun wrote: »

Who posted the link though?

No one famous:
https://twitter.com/leeirenedillon/status/938877912471744512

iptba · 13-12-2017 08:10PM

iptba wrote: »

#morewomen
@women4election Xmas year end review
Women for Election is a non-partisan non-profit that trains women to enter politics.

On same hashtag, an Irish person quoted this article:
"when women win elections, everyone wins"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/06/iceland-women-government-better-for-mothers-america-lessons

https://twitter.com/DeirdreMortell/status/941017102370197506

https://twitter.com/women4election/status/941032294202183680

Calhoun · 13-12-2017 08:18PM

iptba wrote: »

https://twitter.com/women4election/status/941032294202183680

Lol no bias in that tweet , problem with out politicall system is there is a glass ceiling for all due to the dynasties.

citytillidie · 14-12-2017 04:14PM

So not only did Lavinia Woodward avoid jail for stabbing a guy because of her extraordinary talent she is now appealing her sentence

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5156173/Lavinia-Woodward-appeals-against-suspended-sentence.html

Simpla · 16-12-2017 07:35PM

What do ye think of the sexual harrasment stories in the media. Mainly from men against women?

Any thoughts?

Mens Rights Thread

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