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Are we over the annual poppy thread?

1434446484951

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    ,in a united Ireland with increased access to education etc those to stand to benefit and gain the most are working class loyalists

    Only problem is, with higher taxes and less money in a United Ireland, education standards all round would probably fall. And working class loyalists would not take well to compulsory Irish language, or Irish being necessary for a state job or education in many third level institutions, as happened south of the border.
    Bombs in the 26 counties in would be, if a UI ever happened. Not that it will happen in our lifetime anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    maryishere wrote: »
    It was not me who brought up Pearse. You should read the book on him though,
    by Joost Augusteijn, Pearse's most recent biographer. He concluded that: "Although it will not be possible to ascertain whether Patrick was a latent or active paedophile, beyond his tendency to kiss boys, it seems most probable that he was sexually inclined this way".

    But, But you posted that already MARY..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    maryishere wrote: »
    Only problem is, with higher taxes and less money in a United Ireland, education standards all round would probably fall. And working class loyalists would not take well to compulsory Irish language, or Irish being necessary for a state job or education in many third level institutions, as happened south of the border.
    Bombs in the 26 counties in would be, if a UI ever happened. Not that it will happen in our lifetime anyway.

    Most people accept this is happening at some point, most think it's well within our lifetime...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    maryishere wrote: »
    Only problem is, with higher taxes and less money in a United Ireland, education standards all round would probably fall.

    Given that it's ranked amoung the best in the world it'll fall along way to be worse than little to no education opportunities

    And 3rd level education is effectively free to less well off



    But yes....you keep banging the drum about the irish language etc (as I said pointless side distractions under the guise of culture)...while the poorest go without


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,136 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    not yet wrote: »
    Most people accept this is happening at some point, most think it's well within our lifetime...

    i asked you this before but you didnt answer. where are you getting "most think it's well within our lifetime" from or is it just wishful thinking?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    i asked you this before but you didnt answer. where are you getting "most think it's well within our lifetime" from or is it just wishful thinking?


    I'll answer this as best I can..

    In a straw poll of people I would come across on a day to day basis including work colleagues, Business contacts, friends, Neighbours etc the general feeling seems to be we are on a path to a Untied Ireland sooner rather then later..

    Added to this the feeling amongst a lot of the political classes seems to think the same..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Journal.ie as recently as March 2017

    So we’re asking: Do you want a united Ireland?





    Poll Results:

    70% said yes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Do you think you will see a united Ireland in your lifetime?




    Yes

    75%


    No

    25%


    Irish Times in March..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,019 ✭✭✭✭citytillidie


    maryishere wrote: »
    Only problem is, with higher taxes and less money in a United Ireland, education standards all round would probably fall. And working class loyalists would not take well to compulsory Irish language, or Irish being necessary for a state job or education in many third level institutions, as happened south of the border.
    Bombs in the 26 counties in would be, if a UI ever happened. Not that it will happen in our lifetime anyway.

    You do know that there has been a rise in the number of Irish speakers in East Belfast encase you don't know East Belfast is a strong Loyalist areas

    http://www.ebm.org.uk/turas/

    ******



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    A United Ireland is now a real possibility.


    The result of the recent election in Northern Ireland has brought the issue of a united Ireland front and center. A nationalist voting majority is now certain in the North.





    There is a critical need for a realistic discussion, one that Irish America must join.

    For the first time ever, more nationalists voted than unionists, an eventuality that everyone knew would come some day but was not expected so soon.

    As long as the goal of a united Ireland was aspirational, lip service was paid by successive Irish governments to the notion of achieving all-Ireland unity. Now it is no longer a matter of speculation, but an eventual reality.

    Notice how Fianna Fail, long the party of platitudes about the North, are suddenly producing a 12 point plan for Irish unity with no empty cliches


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,136 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    not yet wrote: »
    Journal.ie as recently as March 2017

    So we’re asking: Do you want a united Ireland?





    Poll Results:

    70% said yes.
    not yet wrote: »
    Do you think you will see a united Ireland in your lifetime?




    Yes

    75%


    No

    25%


    Irish Times in March..

    links to either of these? how you phrase the question can determine the answer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    links to either of these? how you phrase the question can determine the answer.

    I think both questions are phrased very straightforward.

    Google: When will a United Ireland happen, it'll throw up these and more.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Irish Independent March 12th 2017


    A nation once again?

    A united Ireland has always seemed more of a pipe dream, with the result that few have seriously considered how reunification might work. But some commentators now claim population changes, Brexit and the recent Assembly election make it seem not just credible - but inevitable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    maryishere wrote: »
    And working class loyalists would not take well to compulsory Irish language.

    They can just learn Scottish Gaelic then :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    links to either of these? how you phrase the question can determine the answer.

    Do you believe a Untied Ireland is going to happen..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,136 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    not yet wrote: »
    Do you believe a Untied Ireland is going to happen..


    presuming you meant united then not in my lifetime. i said that already. got those links?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    presuming you meant united then not in my lifetime. i said that already. got those links?

    Google it. I can't link from work for some reason..


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    not yet wrote: »
    Nothing to offer?

    Supplies, ports, airports, hospitals for the wounded, and many other things but Yeah, bury your head in the sand and wring your hands about how Britain did nothing to stop the rise if Hitler and ignore the fact that Ireland did nothing either.

    At least Britain had the balls to step in while Ireland quivered under it's green cover on the sidelines mumbling "not my fight, not my fight"

    You're gas laugh...

    Britain only ''stepped'' up when they had no choice, Germany invaded 6 countries at will while The Great British Empire stood by, only when Germany came knocking did they answer. If Germany had of been happy with what they had britian would have let them at it.....make no mistake.
    This is nonsense. Britain and France declared war in 1939, they bombed Germany in March 1940, Germany invaded France in May 1940. 

    Some people on this thread don't seem to know anything about WW2, so should save themselves the embarrassment of talking about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,634 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    not yet wrote: »
    Do you believe a Untied Ireland is going to happen..


    presuming you meant united then not in my lifetime. i said that already. got those links?

    Do you not think a discussion/chances of a poll on unity has increased given recent elections and the brexit vote? A few years ago I was certainly of the view not in my lifetime either but now I do think that we will certainly have a poll.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,136 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Do you not think a discussion/chances of a poll on unity has increased given recent elections and the brexit vote? A few years ago I was certainly of the view not in my lifetime either but now I do think that we will certainly have a poll.


    we had a long thread on this not so long ago. I dont think brexit helps this at all. quite the opposite. they will want to see brexit long behind them before even thinking about letting go of the north.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,634 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    Do you not think a discussion/chances of a poll on unity has increased given recent elections and the brexit vote? A few years ago I was certainly of the view not in my lifetime either but now I do think that we will certainly have a poll.

    we had a long thread on this not so long ago. I dont think brexit helps this at all. quite the opposite. they will want to see brexit long behind them before even thinking about letting go of the north.

    Fair enough I am of a differing view. There is such an alarming difference on where England is going and the rest of the UK I think brexit highlights it even further.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,418 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    This is nonsense. Britain and France declared war in 1939, they bombed Germany in March 1940, Germany invaded France in May 1940. 
    It isn't nonsense. It is now conveniently forgotten that in the 1930s Hitler and the Nazis had friends and admirers in very high places in Britain.
    The British were very happy to see Hitler come to the aid of Franco to crush the democratically elected "Red" Spanish Republic. The Blitzkreig tactics used in the invasion of France and against retreating British troops were perfected in Spain. Ironic or what?
    In 1936 Oswald Mosley's British Union of Fascists attempted to march through a jewish area in the east end of London, the police protected the fascists and were more interested in attacking the leftist groups who tried to prevent to march.
    After the war the occupiers of Western Germany reinstalled the nazi judiciary and security apparatus.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehlen_Organization
    Since I mentioned the Spanish Civil War it should be noted that no poppies are worn for the thousands of volunteers who joined the International Brigades to stop fascism before it was too late. Hitler was allowed to use Spain as a training ground and we know the rest!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    This is nonsense. Britain and France declared war in 1939, they bombed Germany in March 1940, Germany invaded France in May 1940. 
    It isn't nonsense. It is now conveniently forgotten that in the 1930s Hitler and the Nazis had friends and admirers in very high places in Britain.
    The British were very happy to see Hitler come to the aid of Franco to crush the democratically elected "Red" Spanish Republic. The Blitzkreig tactics used in the invasion of France and against retreating British troops were perfected in Spain. Ironic or what?
    In 1936 Oswald Mosley's British Union of Fascists attempted to march through a jewish area in the east end of London, the police protected the fascists and were more interested in attacking the leftist groups who tried to prevent to march.
    After the war the occupiers of Western Germany reinstalled the nazi judiciary and security apparatus.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehlen_Organization
    Since I mentioned the Spanish Civil War it should be noted that no poppies are worn for the thousands of volunteers who joined the International Brigades to stop fascism before it was too late. Hitler was allowed to use Spain as a training ground and we know the rest!
    This is funny because that reply bears no resemblance to what I was replying to at all. The claim was that Britain stood by and just watched Nazi Germany conquer all which is plain and utter nonsense as I pointed out with facts. What you posted has to do with that fact is beyond me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,743 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    IRSH MAN wrote: »
    i look at the poppy and i see brave soldiers who fought and died in a real war not the fairytale BS that gerry adams and his "comrades" use to try and justify murder and sex abuse


    the war that our boys jerry, and martin (peace be upon him) were in was a real war. started by britain by refusing to eradicate sectarianism in northern ireland, and then allowing (and eventually taking part in) the beating, murdering, and the rest of those who protested it. the british soldiers involved in collusion and murder were not brave.
    IRSH MAN wrote: »
    west brit = irish person who won't support murder and abuse committed by the IRA

    all who support the ira condemn the killing of civilians. the ira should only have focused on those upholding sectarian rule, aka the authorities/governmental figures.
    This is funny because that reply bears no resemblance to what I was replying to at all. The claim was that Britain stood by and just watched Nazi Germany conquer all which is plain and utter nonsense as I pointed out with facts. What you posted has to do with that fact is beyond me.

    it's not nonsense. britain did stand by and let germany get on with it, until it was about to effect them.
    maryishere wrote: »
    worse even than parts of Dublin or Limerick? Time the British government stopped being the second biggest net contributor to EU funds so, and spent money in their own jurisdiction. Charity begins at home.

    britain has enough money to invest in these areas and contribute the small amount to the EU it contributes, for which it makes back a lot more. they don't want to invest hugely in northern ireland, they are biding their time until they can get out of there.
    maryishere wrote: »
    And in the case of a united Ireland, do you think the Irish government could afford to pay for these same slums in Belfast you speak of?

    yes. a united ireland = greater potential for investment from multi-nationals and other businesses.
    maryishere wrote: »
    In the unlikely case of a U.I. coming about, almost certainly people from these same deprived areas would be setting off bombs in Dublin, same as the PIRA set off bombs in Britain.

    a small few may try, but unlike the IRA they are easily shut down using our security forces. they will not be able to mount a sustained campaign unlike the ira, they will have no support from the british government or military.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Listen boys you can call it what you want,from wishful thinking to a deluded mindset, the truth is a United Ireland will be along soon enough..

    You can bury your heads in the sand, choose to ignore it, decide you want no part of it but it is happening. England really wants rid of the artificial state they created for a raft of reasons. The 6 counties unlike Scotland or Wales have a changing demographic, that change will inevitably bring a wish to join a United Ireland.

    Ulster unlike Scotland does not have Oil reserves from the north sea and has nothing of value to offer GB, As soon a Labour Government comes to power the shift towards a United Ireland will be irreversible.

    So come on lads get with the programme and be on the right side of history.

    #Wecanmakeitwork


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,639 ✭✭✭feargale


    maryishere wrote: »
    He was a great visionary all right, given the civil war, clerical abuse, and terrorism inspired by his visions which haunted much of 20th century Ireland. Incidentally, Joost Augusteijn, Pearse's most recent biographer, concluded that: "Although it will not be possible to ascertain whether Patrick was a latent or active paedophile, beyond his tendency to kiss boys, it seems most probable that he was sexually inclined this way. Fascinating book.

    My word, you do detest the country of your birth, don't you? What on earth has Pearse to do with clerical abuse? If he merits blame for that does he deserve credit for saving us from BBC buggery?

    This thread is same old, same old, year after year. If only we could free the UK of pro-poppy fascism, and free Ireland of anti-poppy fascism! Why the hell should anybody care who wears a poppy or who doesn't? I for one won't begrudge any Irish person honouring an antecedent who endured or died in WWI. And if an Irish footballer or anybody else in the UK chooses to do otherwise they should be equally free of bullying. If as an Irish or British person you were living and working in Germany would you be pressurised into commemorating their war dead?

    OP as a mod should have had more sense than to open this thread,


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Forgotten victims, North King Street Dublin 1916. Does the poppy also remember those who performed more ignominious actions during WW1? The men who sentenced others to death for crimes of desertion and cowardice, those who carried out the 300 odd executions, and those who committed crimes themselves?
    British soldiers shot dead unarmed prisoners after they had surrendered, along with innocent bystanders, during the 1916 Easter Rising, the spark that was to lead to Ireland's war of independence, hitherto secret documents reveal.
    The papers, released yesterday at the public record office, also show how army officers and civil servants covered up evidence that rebel prisoners and uninvolved civilians were summarily shot, to avoid what they called "hostile propaganda".
    By the end of the week, the area was still not cleared. The South Staffordshire regiment under a colonel Taylor advanced, in two days, 150 yards down North King Street, losing 14 dead and 32 wounded. [2]

    Taylor took over the Bolton Street Technical School with his men deployed on the roof of the building. When an improvised armoured car arrived it allowed the British troops to shelter behind it and finally advance up North King Street and to enter the houses.

    General Lowe had ordered that, ‘no hesitation was to be shown in dealing with these rebels; that by their actions they had placed themselves outside the law and that they were not be made prisoners’.[3] However it was the civilians on the street that took the brunt of the consequences of this order.

    Infuriated with the losses they had suffered, on late Friday evening and early Saturday morning, the troops broke into the homes of the locals and shot or bayoneted 15 civilian men whom they accused of being rebels. They killed three men at 170 North Kings Street whose dead bodies were found to have bayonet wounds, then broke into number 172 and killed two men. In number 174 two more were shot dead. Two more civilian men were killed at number 177 and in 27 North King Street another four men, who all worked there at the Louth Dairy were found dead in a basement and one more man was killed at number 91. The fifteenth James Moore was shot dead on adjoining Little Britain Street by the British troops. And there may have been a 16th killed on nearby Coleraine Street, though it is not clear who killed him. [4]

    Ellen Walsh, a resident of 172 North King Street, recalled soldiers pounding on her door until she opened, and demanding, “Are there any men in this house?” Thirty soldiers ransacked the house, “like wild animals or things possessed”. They took the two men in the house aside, one of them Walsh’s husband, and killed them.[5]

    At number 177, two men, Paddy Bealen (also spelled Bealen), a 30 year old pub foreman and James Healy a 44-year-old labourer at the Jameson Distillery were killed.

    Mary O’Rourke, the owner of the pub where Bealin worked, had been sheltering with him in the cellar when British troops took over the house at number 177. She told an inquest into the death of Paddy Bealin, that Bealin and her 13 year old son were searched by the military. Bealin was taken away a soldier said to a guardroom and never seen alive again.

    Rosanna Knowles of 173 North King St said she had conversation with soldier relating to the shooting of Bealen, ‘was there much [sic] killed?’ she asked him, The soldier replied, ‘There was a good deal of our men killed and a good deal of the others. I only felt sorry for the poor fellows at the corner (O’Rourkes)’… According to Knowles the soldier said;

    I pitied him from my heart though I had to shoot him. He had made tea for me’. He said that the soldier had brought the prisoner downstairs in Mrs O’Rourke’s, the soldier said that the man had given him his pen knife and his ring. He produced the pen knife but he had lost the ring. He said that he brought him downstairs he had not the heart to shoot him straight and they told him to go up the stairs and they let bang at him [shot him] from the foot of the stairs’.

    http://www.theirishstory.com/2012/04/13/the-north-king-street-massacre-dublin-1916/
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jan/11/freedomofinformation.politics


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony



    it's not nonsense. britain did stand by and let germany get on with it, until it was about to effect them.


    It is nonsense because the claim was Britain just watched Germany invade France and the like without doing anything when in truth they declared war in 1939 and started bombing Germany in 1940, even before they invaded France.

    So it's just untrue, I don't know who taught some of the people on this thread about WW2 history but they must be terrible historians or really bitter Irish Republicans. 






  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,032 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    the war that our boys jerry, and martin (peace be upon him) were in was a real war. started by britain by refusing to eradicate sectarianism in northern ireland, and then allowing (and eventually taking part in) the beating, murdering, and the rest of those who protested it. the british soldiers involved in collusion and murder were not brave.



    all who support the ira condemn the killing of civilians. the ira should only have focused on those upholding sectarian rule, aka the authorities/governmental figures.



    it's not nonsense. britain did stand by and let germany get on with it, until it was about to effect them.



    britain has enough money to invest in these areas and contribute the small amount to the EU it contributes, for which it makes back a lot more. they don't want to invest hugely in northern ireland, they are biding their time until they can get out of there.



    yes. a united ireland = greater potential for investment from multi-nationals and other businesses.



    a small few may try, but unlike the IRA they are easily shut down using our security forces. they will not be able to mount a sustained campaign unlike the ira, they will have no support from the british government or military.

    Another clear and blatant lie from you! There is evidence in this thread and many other threads where Republicans/pro IRA supporters not only refuse to condemn the murder of innocent civilians but do in fact claim that the killing of innocent civilians was justified collateral damage.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,136 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    not yet wrote: »
    Listen boys you can call it what you want,from wishful thinking to a deluded mindset, the truth is a United Ireland will be along soon enough..

    You can bury your heads in the sand, choose to ignore it, decide you want no part of it but it is happening. England really wants rid of the artificial state they created for a raft of reasons. The 6 counties unlike Scotland or Wales have a changing demographic, that change will inevitably bring a wish to join a United Ireland.

    Ulster unlike Scotland does not have Oil reserves from the north sea and has nothing of value to offer GB, As soon a Labour Government comes to power the shift towards a United Ireland will be irreversible.

    So come on lads get with the programme and be on the right side of history.

    #Wecanmakeitwork

    sounds like it is straight from a shinner manifesto.


This discussion has been closed.
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