Are we over the annual poppy thread?

FrancieBrady · 09-11-2017 09:58PM

maryishere wrote: »

It was not an extermination camp in 1935, which is what you claimed.
Do not forget Kristallnacht did not happen until November 1938.

Mary:

The Dachau concentration camp was established in March 1933. It was the first regular concentration camp established by the National Socialist (Nazi) government. Heinrich Himmler, as police president of Munich, officially described the camp as "the first concentration camp for political prisoners."

It was housing 'political prisoners', did nobody in the RBL wonder, or ask why are you locking up 'political' opponents?

indioblack · 09-11-2017 10:00PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When they retreated?
I suppose you could portray it as standing alone but had Hitler been intent on crossing the channel Britain was a beaten docket. He was the master of Europe until the RUssians and Americans got there with Britain.

And seriously, you have your view and I and others have ours. Not really interested in discussing it on this thread.

In the summer of 1940 an invasion exercise took place off the French coast at Boulogne. Put simply, it was a shambles - and recognized as such by the German military observers.
Just as well you're not seriously interested in discussing this - your observation that Britain was a "beaten docket" simply wouldn't stand up to reasonable scrutiny.

Vincent Vega · 09-11-2017 10:01PM

Something curious I noticed during the Northern Ireland match.
From the off all of them had poppy armbands.
Ward was subbed on in the 52nd minute and wasn't wearing one, but later on when I saw him he was.
Was it being rigorously enforced? Some sort of agreement in place?

Timberrrrrrrr · 09-11-2017 10:02PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We had nothing to offer or gain by entering the war. WW1 was a very potent memory, no fledgling country was gonna get involved in round 2 if they could avoid it. And it was the right decision. Britain, America and Russia couldn't stop the deaths either. They happened anyway.

Appeasement caused the second WW. Who was turning blind eyes there?

Nothing to offer?

Supplies, ports, airports, hospitals for the wounded, and many other things but Yeah, bury your head in the sand and wring your hands about how Britain did nothing to stop the rise if Hitler and ignore the fact that Ireland did nothing either.

At least Britain had the balls to step in while Ireland quivered under it's green cover on the sidelines mumbling "not my fight, not my fight"

not yet · 09-11-2017 10:05PM

In other news N Ireland 0-1 Switzerland LIVE!

markodaly · 09-11-2017 10:08PM

davycc wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1325204/Royal-British-Legions-shameful-Hitler-visit-revealed-75-years.html

The facts don't tally with your attempted dilution

Daily Mail, enough said.

end of the road · 09-11-2017 10:09PM

maryishere wrote: »

Dachau was not an extermination camp in 1935. Get your facts right.

The RBL were invited to Germany in 1935 to visit war graves, out of respect to dead servicemen.

Dachau was an extermination camp in 1935. Get your facts right.
the rbl poppy extremists went to germany to meet hitler.

maryishere wrote: »

Its not my beloved realm : I am Irish. No country is perfect.

Nothing hugely honourable in Irelands stance either. As our ex-minister Shatter admitted: In the 1930s practically all visa requests from German Jews were refused by the Irish authorities.
“This position was maintained from 1939 to 1945 and we should no longer be in denial that, in the context of the Holocaust, Irish neutrality was a principle of moral bankruptcy.
“This moral bankruptcy was compounded by the then Irish government who, after the war, only allowed an indefensibly small number who survived the concentration camps to settle permanently in Ireland . . . and also by the visit of President de Valera to then German ambassador Edouard Hempel in 1945 to express his condolences on the death of Hitler. At a time when neutrality should have ceased to be an issue the government . . . utterly lost its moral compass,” said Mr Shatter.

more lies. jewish refugees did come to ireland. there was a documentary on it years ago.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Nothing to offer?

Supplies, ports, airports, hospitals for the wounded, and many other things but Yeah, bury your head in the sand and wring your hands about how Britain did nothing to stop the rise if Hitler and ignore the fact that Ireland did nothing either.

At least Britain had the balls to step in while Ireland quivered under it's green cover on the sidelines mumbling "not my fight, not my fight"

ireland was not in a position to help, given it's lax infrastructure.

maryishere · 09-11-2017 10:11PM

davycc wrote: »

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005214

Dachu was a concentration / extermination camp as early as 193.

It was a concentration camp, not an extermination camp in 1935 as was claimed. Big difference.

Quote: The Nazis distinguished between extermination and concentration camps, although the terms extermination camp (Vernichtungslager) and death camp (Todeslager) were interchangeable, each referring to camps whose primary function was genocide. Todeslagers were designed specifically for the systematic killing of people delivered en masse by the Holocaust trains. The executioners did not expect the prisoners to survive more than a few hours beyond arrival at Belzec, Sobibór, and Treblinka.[25] The Reinhard extermination camps were under Globocnik's direct command; each of them was run by 20 to 35 men from the SS-Totenkopfverbände branch of the Schutzstaffel, augmented by about one hundred Trawnikis – auxiliaries mostly from Soviet Ukraine, and up to one thousand Sonderkommando slave labourers each.[26] The Jewish men, women and children were delivered from the ghettos for "special treatment" in an atmosphere of terror by uniformed police battalions from both, Orpo and Schupo.[27]
Death camps differed from concentration camps located in Germany proper, such as Bergen-Belsen, Oranienburg, Ravensbrück, and Sachsenhausen, which were prison camps set up prior to World War II for people defined as 'undesirable'.

During the war, only about 32,000 died in Dachau : in proper extermination camps, millions died.

maryishere · 09-11-2017 10:14PM

end of the road wrote: »

jewish refugees did come to ireland. there was a documentary on it years ago.

Practically none were allowed before or during the war. And very few on a permanent basis after the war either.

FrancieBrady · 09-11-2017 10:16PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Nothing to offer?

Supplies, ports, airports, hospitals for the wounded, and many other things but Yeah, bury your head in the sand and wring your hands about how Britain did nothing to stop the rise if Hitler and ignore the fact that Ireland did nothing either.

At least Britain had the balls to step in while Ireland quivered under it's green cover on the sidelines mumbling "not my fight, not my fight"

Had Britain not ****ed up with the treaty of Versailles, nobody would have had to fight.

And Britain didn't stand alone, they were broke, Roosevelt had to come up with a scheme to allow him to loan money.

And, when I was at school they said the essence of neutrality is NOT to get involved in wars. I think that is still the same.

not yet · 09-11-2017 10:17PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Nothing to offer?

Supplies, ports, airports, hospitals for the wounded, and many other things but Yeah, bury your head in the sand and wring your hands about how Britain did nothing to stop the rise if Hitler and ignore the fact that Ireland did nothing either.

At least Britain had the balls to step in while Ireland quivered under it's green cover on the sidelines mumbling "not my fight, not my fight"

You're gas laugh...

Britain only ''stepped'' up when they had no choice, Germany invaded 6 countries at will while The Great British Empire stood by, only when Germany came knocking did they answer. If Germany had of been happy with what they had britian would have let them at it.....make no mistake.

tomwaterford · 09-11-2017 10:18PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

At least Britain had the balls to step in while Ireland quivered under it's green cover on the sidelines mumbling "not my fight, not my fight"

Or it looked after its people and didn't want to aid a country which up onto 1938 was doing all in its power to bankrupt the state during the economic war??

<20 years after independence and the mass loss of Irish lives and Britain come calling again for cannon fodder....for yet another spat on the continent?

Do you honestly think an Irish political party in this climate would get elected on the premise of helping the British in a war,while parts of ireland remain occupied?
(Less than 20 years after Britain had also threatened war on Ireland unless they let them hold onto that piece aswel?)

davycc · 09-11-2017 10:19PM

markodaly wrote: »

Daily Mail, enough said.

Did you read the link, it's authored by a prominent head honcho in the royal British legion admitting the historical official tours of ww1graveyards and a already functioning Dach
Concentration camp.

You asked for a link and I gave you one straight and true.

The rbl even got to meet Hitler's, himmler,.

All in the same article.
Thanks

tomwaterford · 09-11-2017 10:19PM

maryishere wrote: »

Practically none were allowed before or during the war. And very few on a permanent basis after the war either.

Sure how could they come...the RBL were visiting them in concentration camps?

tomwaterford · 09-11-2017 10:20PM

davycc wrote: »

Did you read the link, it's authored by a prominent head honcho in the royal British legion admitting the historical official tours of ww1graveyards and a already functioning Dach
Concentration camp.

You asked for a link and I gave you one straight and true.

The rbl even got to meet Hitler's, himmler,.

All in the same article.
Thanks

It's a simple saying. ...pictures say a 1000 words...this lad clearly didn't read the link

FrancieBrady · 09-11-2017 10:24PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

It's a simple saying. ...pictures say a 1000 words...this lad clearly didn't read the link

They should have got a pic of Adolf with his poppy.

09-11-2017 10:26PM

maryishere wrote: »

It was a concentration camp, not an extermination camp in 1935 as was claimed...........

Jews were being murdered in Dachau as early as April 1933, quite a long time before your buddies in the RBL popped in for a visit.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/04/opinion/the-first-killings-of-the-holocaust.html

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/othercamps/dachau.html

During the war, only about 32,000 died in Dachau : in proper extermination camps, millions died.

'Only' 32,000 died. Thats grand so. Whats your threshold for a 'proper' one?

maryishere · 09-11-2017 10:26PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They should have got a pic of Adolf with his poppy.

In that 1935 visit they took the rbl to visit the graves of 1200 British and Irish servicemen, maybe they left the Poppies at those graves.

tomwaterford · 09-11-2017 10:32PM

maryishere wrote: »

In that 1935 visit they took the rbl to visit the graves of 1200 British and Irish servicemen, maybe they left the Poppies at those graves.

In between selfies with Hitler and himmler if they got about to it?? :pac:

FrancieBrady · 09-11-2017 10:37PM

maryishere wrote: »

In that 1935 visit they took the rbl to visit the graves of 1200 British and Irish servicemen, maybe they left the Poppies at those graves.

Maybe they did.
Seemed like a fun trip otherwise.

maryishere · 09-11-2017 10:38PM

Nine years after the visit by the RBL, the Red Cross visited THERESIENSTADT concentration camp (where tens of thousands died) and were fooled.

Quote: Succumbing to pressure following the deportation of Danish Jews to Theresienstadt, the Germans permitted representatives from the Danish Red Cross and the International Red Cross to visit in June 1944. It was all an elaborate hoax. The Germans intensified deportations from the ghetto shortly before the visit, and the ghetto itself was "beautified." Gardens were planted, houses painted, and barracks renovated. The Nazis staged social and cultural events for the visiting dignitaries. Once the visit was over, the Germans resumed deportations from Theresienstadt, which did not end until October 1944.

Look up THERESIENSTADT if you have not heard of it already.

tomwaterford · 09-11-2017 10:46PM

maryishere wrote: »

Nine years after the visit by the RBL, the Red Cross visited THERESIENSTADT concentration camp (where tens of thousands died) and were fooled.

Quote: Succumbing to pressure following the deportation of Danish Jews to Theresienstadt, the Germans permitted representatives from the Danish Red Cross and the International Red Cross to visit in June 1944. It was all an elaborate hoax. The Germans intensified deportations from the ghetto shortly before the visit, and the ghetto itself was "beautified." Gardens were planted, houses painted, and barracks renovated. The Nazis staged social and cultural events for the visiting dignitaries. Once the visit was over, the Germans resumed deportations from Theresienstadt, which did not end until October 1944.

Look up THERESIENSTADT if you have not heard of it already.

The archives show that they viewed solitary confinement cells. At the time Jews were already being imprisoned there – 'returned emigrant Jews under observation' say the Legion records, along with the 'workshy', 'professionally criminal' and 'moral perverts

Turns out the Nazis trusted the RBL enough they didn't even try pull the wool over their eyes??

FrancieBrady · 09-11-2017 10:49PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

The archives show that they viewed solitary confinement cells. At the time Jews were already being imprisoned there – 'returned emigrant Jews under observation' say the Legion records, along with the 'workshy', 'professionally criminal' and 'moral perverts

Turns out the Nazis trusted the RBL enough they didn't even try pull the wool over their eyes??

Too late: the rewrite of the facts is underway. Wickpedia just went down.

maryishere · 09-11-2017 10:52PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

The archives show that they viewed solitary confinement cells.

With nobody in them, and plenty of books, armchairs, food around.

Read up on the Red cross visit to THERESIENSTADT concentration camp in 1944, when the Nazis were murdering millions in extermination camps...and yet the Nazis fooled the Red cross. No surprise the Nazis were able to beautify Dachau in 1935 when relatively speaking the Nazis had not started rounding up and exterminating people.

maryishere · 09-11-2017 10:54PM

At least by 1939 the British stood up to Hitler, and fought him. Dev was the only leader in the world to send condolences on his suicide in '45, as the world saw the recently liberated extermination camps.

Respect to the 120,000 Irishmen who volunteered to fight Nazism. Glad somebody did. (along with millions from other countries).

tomwaterford · 09-11-2017 10:55PM

maryishere wrote: »

With nobody in them, and plenty of books, armchairs, food around.

Jesus your getting woeful desperate

This presumably justify the RBL hanging out for pics with the top nazis??

Whatever about signing book of condolences....pretty sure de valera wasn't hip enough to be taking selfies with Hitler? ?

WesternZulu · 09-11-2017 10:57PM

How many arguments has Mary lost on this thread, is anyone keeping count?

NIMAN · 09-11-2017 10:57PM

I see some people on BBC Question Time in the audience not wearing poppies

Bastards.

not yet · 09-11-2017 11:09PM

WesternZulu wrote: »

How many arguments has Mary lost on this thread, is anyone keeping count?

All of them, But in Mary's would she's won all of them......

not yet · 09-11-2017 11:11PM

Can we not all just agree to disagree, that includes you too Chops..;)

Are we over the annual poppy thread?

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