Are we over the annual poppy thread?

not yet · 09-11-2017 11:13PM

I'll just leave this here.

Nov. 10th 1879 one of Ireland's greatest visionaries Pádraig Pearse was born in Dublin.

"As long as Ireland is unfree the only honourable attitude for Irish men, women to have is an attitude of rebellion."

Oh, Poppies etc poppies are bad..

end of the road · 10-11-2017 12:07AM

maryishere wrote: »

It was a concentration camp, not an extermination camp in 1935 as was claimed. Big difference.

you claimed it wasn't a concentration camp. it was a concentration camp. therefore you were lieing. you then changed it to extermination camp when caught out, it was an extermination camp as well. therefore you were still lieing. try again.

maryishere wrote: »

Practically none were allowed before or during the war. And very few on a permanent basis after the war either.

untrue. we took in a number before and during the war. but considering we were almost bankrupt, we weren't going to be able to take in a huge number.

feargale · 10-11-2017 02:01AM

maryishere wrote: »

Nine years after the visit by the RBL, the Red Cross visited THERESIENSTADT concentration camp (where tens of thousands died) and were fooled.

Quote: Succumbing to pressure following the deportation of Danish Jews to Theresienstadt, the Germans permitted representatives from the Danish Red Cross and the International Red Cross to visit in June 1944. It was all an elaborate hoax. The Germans intensified deportations from the ghetto shortly before the visit, and the ghetto itself was "beautified." Gardens were planted, houses painted, and barracks renovated. The Nazis staged social and cultural events for the visiting dignitaries. Once the visit was over, the Germans resumed deportations from Theresienstadt, which did not end until October 1944.

Look up THERESIENSTADT if you have not heard of it already.

The Red Cross were fooled in 1944 but accordingbtobthe Paddy bashers Dev is supposed to have known in early 1945. That doesn't add up.

IRSH MAN · 10-11-2017 04:12AM

i look at the poppy and i see brave soldiers who fought and died in a real war not the fairytale BS that gerry adams and his "comrades" use to try and justify murder and sex abuse

IRSH MAN · 10-11-2017 04:16AM

RayM wrote: »

Classic West-Brit post, tbh.

west brit = irish person who won't support murder and abuse committed by the IRA

not yet · 10-11-2017 07:27AM

IRSH MAN wrote: »

i look at the poppy and i see brave soldiers who fought and died in a real war not the fairytale BS that gerry adams and his "comrades" use to try and justify murder and sex abuse

Good or you.

munsterlegend · 10-11-2017 07:27AM

IRSH MAN wrote: »

i look at the poppy and i see brave soldiers who fought and died in a real war not the fairytale BS that gerry adams and his "comrades" use to try and justify murder and sex abuse

That's your view of the poppy but in Ireland it's not the general view which is why few wear it. You are perfectly entitled to condemn the provisional movement but that's another thread. The poppy also represents the Black and Tans who were anything but brave.

blackwhite · 10-11-2017 08:20AM

end of the road wrote: »

you claimed it wasn't a concentration camp. it was a concentration camp. therefore you were lieing. you then changed it to extermination camp when caught out, it was an extermination camp as well. therefore you were still lieing. try again.

untrue. we took in a number before and during the war. but considering we were almost bankrupt, we weren't going to be able to take in a huge number.

I know that you are never one to let facts gets in the way of your rants, but Dachau was never changed to an extermination camp.
The extermination camps were generally kept outside of Germany, mainly in Poland.

I don’t think you, of all posters, are one to accuse others of lying

maryishere · 10-11-2017 08:28AM

end of the road wrote: »

you claimed it wasn't a concentration camp. it was a concentration camp. therefore you were lieing. you then changed it to extermination camp when caught out, it was an extermination camp as well. therefore you were still lieing.

Untrue. Someone else claimed it was an extermination camp in 1935. It was not. It was a concentration camp. It was not until the Reichspogromnacht or Kristallnacht in 1938, when 30,000 male Jewish citizens were deported to concentration camps, that mass round ups of Jews commenced. The 6 million Jews were mostly exterminated in the period 1939-1945, not in 1935.

If you want to see an Extermination camp, study the likes of Auschwitz Birkenau, to see where 1.3 million were killed.

end of the road wrote: »

untrue. we took in a number before and during the war

Untrue. We took in a few Catholic refugees before and during the war but not Jewish. Dr. Mervyn O'Driscoll of University College Cork reported on the unofficial and official barriers that prevented Jews from finding refuge in Ireland then. "Although overt anti-Semitism was not typical, the southern Irish were indifferent to the Nazi persecution of the Jews and those fleeing the third Reich....A successful applicant in 1938 was typically wealthy, middle-aged or elderly, single from Austria, Roman Catholic and desiring to retire in peace to Ireland and not engage in employment. Only a few Viennese bankers and industrialists met the strict criterion of being Catholic, although possibly of Jewish descent, capable of supporting themselves comfortably without involvement in the economic life of the country."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Ireland

A TD in the Dail in 1943 advocated "routing the Jews out of the country"
The Wannsee Conference listed the 4,000 Jews of Ireland to be among those marked for killing in the Holocaust. Just as well Hitler did not win the Battle of Britain or we would have been next, as were many unfortunate neutral countres invaded by Hitler.

10-11-2017 09:03AM

maryishere wrote: »

Untrue.

Untrue. Ireland took in about 30 it seems.

http://www.jewishireland.org/irish-jewish-history/history/

maryishere · 10-11-2017 09:18AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Untrue. Ireland took in about 30 it seems.

http://www.jewishireland.org/irish-jewish-history/history/

That was both during the war and before the war: not just before the war.
Most of that 30 were of Jewish decent but had converted to Catholicism or married to Catholics, and were relatively well off ( ex bankers, industrialists etc), and wishing to retire in peace.

Even so, that number of 30 pales in to insignificance compared to the 100,000 or so Jews allowed to settle in the UK before the war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_England

maryishere · 10-11-2017 09:24AM

not yet wrote: »

I'll just leave this here.

Nov. 10th 1879 one of Ireland's greatest visionaries Pádraig Pearse was born in Dublin.

He was a great visionary all right, given the civil war, clerical abuse, and terrorism inspired by his visions which haunted much of 20th century Ireland. Incidentally, Joost Augusteijn, Pearse's most recent biographer, concluded that: "Although it will not be possible to ascertain whether Patrick was a latent or active paedophile, beyond his tendency to kiss boys, it seems most probable that he was sexually inclined this way. Fascinating book.

not yet · 10-11-2017 09:29AM

maryishere wrote: »

He was a great visionary all right, given the civil war, clerical abuse, and terrorism inspired by his visions which haunted much of 20th century Ireland. Incidentally, Joost Augusteijn, Pearse's most recent biographer, concluded that: "Although it will not be possible to ascertain whether Patrick was a latent or active paedophile, beyond his tendency to kiss boys, it seems most probable that he was sexually inclined this way. Fascinating book.

Kincora Boys' Home ANYONE..?

10-11-2017 09:29AM

maryishere wrote: »

That was both during the war and before the war: not just before the war.

End of the road originally said this, and you said it was untrue.

Most of that 30 were of Jewish decent but had converted to Catholicism or married to Catholics, and were relatively well off ( ex bankers, industrialists etc), and wishing to retire in peace.

Source for this?

From the link I posted:

It is estimated that Ireland accepted as few as 30 Jewish refugees before and during World War II.

http://www.jewishireland.org/irish-jewish-history/history/

not yet · 10-11-2017 09:32AM

maryishere wrote: »

He was a great visionary all right, given the civil war, clerical abuse, and terrorism inspired by his visions which haunted much of 20th century Ireland. Incidentally, Joost Augusteijn, Pearse's most recent biographer, concluded that: "Although it will not be possible to ascertain whether Patrick was a latent or active paedophile, beyond his tendency to kiss boys, it seems most probable that he was sexually inclined this way. Fascinating book.

I'll just leave this here for ya..

Allegations were later made that the RUC had been informed of the abuse at the home for years previously, but had not moved to prevent it. In his 1999 book The Dirty War, Martin Dillon claims that McGrath, who was also the leader of an obscure loyalist paramilitary group called Tara, may have been employed by MI5 since the 1960s and was being blackmailed into providing intelligence on other loyalist groups.[12]

ohnonotgmail · 10-11-2017 09:33AM

not yet wrote: »

I'll just leave this here for ya..

Allegations were later made that the RUC had been informed of the abuse at the home for years previously, but had not moved to prevent it. In his 1999 book The Dirty War, Martin Dillon claims that McGrath, who was also the leader of an obscure loyalist paramilitary group called Tara, may have been employed by MI5 since the 1960s and was being blackmailed into providing intelligence on other loyalist groups.[12]

i am dying to know what the connection is between what you posted and the post you quoted.

maryishere · 10-11-2017 09:34AM

not yet wrote: »

I'll just leave this here for ya..

Allegations were later made that...

"may have been"? And anyway what has that to do with the price of milk?

not yet · 10-11-2017 09:38AM

M15 knew virtually everything about police and army collusion with the loyalist terrorists who murdered Pat Finucane and other Catholics in Northern Ireland, a television documentary claimed last night.

You happy enough with the part Crown forces played in this Mary..?

not yet · 10-11-2017 09:40AM

How about this Mary....

Allegations that British security forces colluded with paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland on a vast scale leading directly to the deaths of hundreds of people must be fully investigated, Amnesty International has said.

In the BBC Panorama documentary, Britain's Secret Terror Deals, to be screened on Thursday, investigative reporter Darragh MacIntyre investigates allegations that the state colluded with paramilitary killers and covered up their crimes

not yet · 10-11-2017 09:44AM

maryishere wrote: »

"may have been"? And anyway what has that to do with the price of milk?

Well if the price of milk is say X and institutional abuse in the 6 counties is Y and padraig pearse's liking for young boys is Z....I think you see where I'm going with this...

maryishere · 10-11-2017 09:45AM

not yet wrote: »

How about this Mary....

Allegations that British security forces colluded ...

The most recent collusion that was proved was in the Smithwicks tribunal, where Garda collusion with the IRA was proven. No doubt there were bad apples in the nothern security services too, no surprise there. I condemn and always have condemned all collusion. Do try to stick on topic.

tomwaterford · 10-11-2017 09:46AM

not yet wrote: »

How about this Mary....

Allegations that British security forces colluded with paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland on a vast scale leading directly to the deaths of hundreds of people must be fully investigated, Amnesty International has said.

In the BBC Panorama documentary, Britain's Secret Terror Deals, to be screened on Thursday, investigative reporter Darragh MacIntyre investigates allegations that the state colluded with paramilitary killers and covered up their crimes

Tbf I don't think this is news to anyone....the British collaborated with local militias the world in the divide and conquer methods

Pretend to reward loyalty etc,while leaving those that helped them die in poverty....loyalist areas in northern Ireland are regularly amoung the poorest,poorly educated slums in western europe,

This is there reward for loyalty during the troubles,

While nationlists thrive and look forward to a united Ireland, unionists politians hold back the very people who need representation the most and prefer wind them up to argue over flags and parades under the guise of culture.....while they collect soft money and those they represent go without

not yet · 10-11-2017 09:47AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i am dying to know what the connection is between what you posted and the post you quoted.

The connection my dear friend is this....

Mary seems to think it's OK to bring up alleged Abuse of young boys by a historical figure, I just thought I'd balance out that argument.

not yet · 10-11-2017 09:49AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Tbf I don't think this is news to anyone....the British collaborated with local militias the world in the divide and conquer methods

Pretend to reward loyalty etc,while leaving those that helped them die in poverty....loyalist areas in northern Ireland are regularly amoung the poorest,poorly educated slums in western europe,

This is there reward for loyalty during the troubles,

While nationlists thrive and look forward to a united Ireland, unionists politians hold back the very people who need representation the most and prefer wind them up to argue over flags and parades under the guise of culture.....while all they collect soft money and those they represent go without

To be honest it probably isn't, but when Mary feels it's OK to bring up Rubbish about P Pearse I reacted of the cuff..

not yet · 10-11-2017 09:51AM

maryishere wrote: »

The most recent collusion that was proved was in the Smithwicks tribunal, where Garda collusion with the IRA was proven. No doubt there were bad apples in the nothern security services too, no surprise there. I condemn and always have condemned all collusion. Do try to stick on topic.

A few bad apples...!! get real would ya..

It is well documented that it was endemic and widespread..

tomwaterford · 10-11-2017 09:52AM

maryishere wrote: »

The most recent collusion that was proved was in the Smithwicks tribunal, where Garda collusion with the IRA was proven. No doubt there were bad apples in the nothern security services too, no surprise there. I condemn and always have condemned all collusion. Do try to stick on topic.

The smithwick tribunal also proved the ira didn't need collusion as their very own man rang ahead on the day to tip off....and the gaurds help was only at best only secondary confirmation

British army also reported the ira were unusually highly active on the air waves that morning even before they'd left dundalk (and before any phonecall could've occurred) and thus ordered it's troops to remain in barracks

maryishere · 10-11-2017 09:52AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

...loyalist areas in northern Ireland are regularly amoung the poorest,poorly educated slums in western europe,

worse even than parts of Dublin or Limerick? Time the British government stopped being the second biggest net contributor to EU funds so, and spent money in their own jurisdiction. Charity begins at home. And in the case of a united Ireland, do you think the Irish government could afford to pay for these same slums in Belfast you speak of? In the unlikely case of a U.I. coming about, almost certainly people from these same deprived areas would be setting off bombs in Dublin, same as the PIRA set off bombs in Britain.

maryishere · 10-11-2017 09:56AM

not yet wrote: »

It is well documented that it was endemic and widespread..

The Smithwick tribunal issued its report on 3 December 2013, finding there had been collusion between members of the Gardaí and the IRA, which resulted in the deaths of top RUC men Breen and Buchanan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithwick_Tribunal

tomwaterford · 10-11-2017 09:56AM

maryishere wrote: »

worse even than parts of Dublin or Limerick?

Yes. ....only some of the worst slums in Paris and marsaille are worse

People blab on and on about a united Ireland. ..but the biggest irony of it is,in a united Ireland with increased access to education etc those to stand to benefit and gain the most are working class loyalists

maryishere · 10-11-2017 09:59AM

not yet wrote: »

but when Mary feels it's OK to bring up Rubbish about P Pearse I reacted of the cuff..

It was not me who brought up Pearse. You should read the book on him though,
by Joost Augusteijn, Pearse's most recent biographer. He concluded that: "Although it will not be possible to ascertain whether Patrick was a latent or active paedophile, beyond his tendency to kiss boys, it seems most probable that he was sexually inclined this way".

Are we over the annual poppy thread?

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