Are we over the annual poppy thread?

markodaly

For the day thats in it.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again, you can dissemble all you want on this.

I said, 'I have seen no videos of the IRA ENJOYING torture' in the same way that we have seen many many videos of British soldiers enjoying it.
If you know of such a video, please share it with us.

There is no argument in there at all, that A) The IRA did not torture and no claim that they DIDN'T enjoy it. Just that there is no video evidence that they did.
The overall point was, the IRA are gone, the BA are not and these videos keep coming. And the poppy honours that activity too.

Just because you havent seen any videos doesn't mean they dont exsist. The fact is yiur beloved IRA had members whi tirtured and jilked innocent poeople.

IRA, BA, RUC, UDA, UVF, INLA, And a host of other organisations had psychos within thier ranks who actively took part in torture if people. These people *from every organisation) should be found, prosecuted and dealt with by the full weight of the law.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

What is the point of this point though? We know they had psychopaths who enjoyed torturing and murdering people. I don't understand the point of saying "Well we haven't seen a film of them enjoying it" as if it has any meaning whatsoever.

There is no 'Well..' in what I said, it was not an excuse nor a denial.

The overall point was that the IRA are gone, the BA is still torturing, killing and terrorising. And the poppy honours all that activity without favour and that is wrong. We need a different symbol here that stands for something else.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

What is the point of this point though? We know they had psychopaths who enjoyed torturing and murdering people. I don't understand the point of saying "Well we haven't seen a film of them enjoying it" as if it has any meaning whatsoever.

There is no 'Well..' in what I said, it was not an excuse nor a denial.

The overall point was that the IRA are gone, the BA is still torturing, killing and terrorising. And the poppy honours all that activity without favour and that is wrong. We need a different symbol here that stands for something else.

No we don't actually. Stick to the Easter Lilly.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

No we don't actually. Stick to the Easter Lilly.

Well I think we do.

What the barb about the Lily is I am not sure because it fails too, for much the same reasons the poppy does.

Junkyard Tom

It's remarkable how the British establishment have turned what was a human catastrophe, in no small part of their own making, into some sort of annual display of mass obedience to a myth. It's a pity the BA didn't mutiny and do a bit of bayoneting back home in Blighty.

If I were fierce, and bald, and short of breath,
I'd live with scarlet Majors at the Base,
And speed glum heroes up the line to death.
You’d see me with my puffy petulant face,
Guzzling and gulping in the best hotel,
Reading the Roll of Honour. 'Poor young chap,'
I'd say—'I used to know his father well;
Yes, we’ve lost heavily in this last scrap.'
And when the war is done and youth stone dead,
I'd toddle safely home and die—in bed.

Siegfried Sassoon.

Jawgap

Until next year......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vH3-Gt7mgyM

/unsubscribe thread

Junkyard Tom

Jawgap wrote: »

/unsubscribe thread

Deserter. :rolleyes:
/sarc

markodaly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's remarkable how the British establishment have turned what was a human catastrophe, in no small part of their own making, into some sort of annual display of mass obedience to a myth. It's a pity the BA didn't mutiny and do a bit of bayoneting back home in Blighty.

And end up like France?

The French under Napoleon had the best army in the world but in WWI due to typical French like stubbornness, incompetence, and 'we know better' they pissed away almost 2 million lives, on top of the 4 million wounded.

Christ, the British establishment is not perfect and has flaws but lets not get carried away and say that ending up like France via a mutiny or Russia ala full scale revolution would have been a better outcome.

A Little Pony

We saw what October 1917 lead to. Absolute disaster for the world and the idea of liberty and individual freedom.

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

We saw what October 1917 lead to. Absolute disaster for the world and the idea of liberty and individual freedom.

Please stop screaming. I wasn't talking about a communist revolution, just thinking out loud, as it were.

Why does your type always think resistance = communist revolution? Too much right-wing Faux news methinks.

david75

Just listened to a fascinating podcast about the Irish perspective in the battle of the Somme and what was the experience for Irish involved and at home at the time. It’s only half an hour. Give it a shot. Dr Heather Jones knows her sh!t

https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/dan-snows-history-hit/id1042631089?mt=2&i=1000371911488https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/dan-snows-history-hit/id1042631089?mt=2&i=1000371911488

markodaly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Please stop screaming. I wasn't talking about a communist revolution, just thinking out loud, as it were.

Why does your type always think resistance = communist revolution? Too much right-wing Faux news methinks.

So, what did you mean when you said that the British Army should have started bayonetting people in Britain instead of fighting in France and Belgium?

This is what actually happened in Russia, so it was apt to draw that comparison.

Another comparison would have been the French revolution, which resulted in mass terror, hundreds of thousands dead and a rise of a dictator in Napoleon. Not really a success either. So, care to elaborate on what you meant or was it just a Shinnerbot through away remark?

Junkyard Tom

markodaly wrote: »

So, what did you mean when you said that the British Army should have started bayonetting people in Britain instead of fighting in France and Belgium?

Incompetent top brass like Field Marshal Douglas Haig, for example. Don't stress about it, Blighty is safe.

A Little Pony

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

markodaly wrote: »

So, what did you mean when you said that the British Army should have started bayonetting people in Britain instead of fighting in France and Belgium?

Incompetent top brass like Field Marshal Douglas Haig, for example. Don't stress about it, Blighty is safe.

What made him incompetent when he used tactics which was in use at that time by the French and Germans? Britain lost less men than Germany and France and ended up on the victorious side in the war. So many people died because the weaponry was too strong for the tactics.

Charging men running towards machine guns and devastating artillery is always going to produce high casualties.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

What made him incompetent when he used tactics which was in use at that time by the French and Germans? Britain lost less men than Germany and France and ended up on the victorious side in the war. So many people died because the weaponry was too strong for the tactics.

Charging men running towards machine guns and devastating artillery is always going to produce high casualties.

'Victorious' illuminates perfectly the wrongheaded nonsense about this war and the poppy that perpetuates this myth.

Everyone lost, humanity lost.

Enough! with the 'victorious' nonsense.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

What made him incompetent when he used tactics which was in use at that time by the French and Germans? Britain lost less men than Germany and France and ended up on the victorious side in the war. So many people died because the weaponry was too strong for the tactics.

Charging men running towards machine guns and devastating artillery is always going to produce high casualties.

'Victorious' illuminates perfectly the wrongheaded nonsense about this war and the poppy that perpetuates this myth.

Everyone lost, humanity lost.

Enough! with the 'victorious' nonsense.

The German Empire lost the war, the Allies won, same with WW2. The argument you make is saying that Nazi Germany didn't lose and the Allies won because a lot of people died, makes no sense whatsoever. Of course sides win wars, war is brutal but you still get winners.

markodaly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Incompetent top brass like Field Marshal Douglas Haig, for example. Don't stress about it, Blighty is safe.

Clearly you are backing down a bit as your comment was about the "pity the BA didn't mutiny and do a bit of bayoneting back home in Blighty" was about taking on the British Establishment ala Russian/French revolution.

A wise move on your behalf.

Berserker

100 pages into the thread and I think the OPs question has been answered. Speaking of people who have found it within themselves to move on, a special mention to the players, officials and supporters of Germany who behaved impeccably and respectfully at Wembley last night. In another 50 years or so, certain sections of the Irish public may be mature enough to do likewise.

RobbieTheRobber

Berserker wrote: »

100 pages into the thread and I think the OPs question has been answered. Speaking of people who have found it within themselves to move on, a special mention to the players, officials and supporters of Germany who behaved impeccably and respectfully at Wembley last night. In another 50 years or so, certain sections of the Irish public may be mature enough to do likewise.

This is satire right.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/659204/England-fans-Germany-Wembley/amp

Berserker

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

This is satire right.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/659204/England-fans-Germany-Wembley/amp

That article talks about the small number of England fans behaving like morons during their anthem. I was talking about the Germans and the respect they showed.

LordSutch

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.



****** ACCOUNT CLOSED *******

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

The German Empire lost the war, the Allies won, same with WW2. The argument you make is saying that Nazi Germany didn't lose and the Allies won because a lot of people died, makes no sense whatsoever. Of course sides win wars, war is brutal but you still get winners.

Nobody won WW1, it was a shameful waste of human life from the get go. And should be remembered as that.

And it would if people would just take on board the actual meaning of the poems they are posting instead of posting them as tributes to the dead of one side.

Europe was at war again in a few short years.

riffmongous

Berserker wrote: »

That article talks about the small number of England fans behaving like morons during their anthem. I was talking about the Germans and the respect they showed.

Maybe in another 50 years certain sections of your lot may be mature enough to behave respectfully eh? At least they only booed instead of singing their vile songs this time

Ken.

Mod-It's past 11am on the 11/11. See ye all next year for another round of the same sh!te.