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JFK Files

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  • #572
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Charmeleon wrote: »
    The HSCA re-examined all of the critical Warren Commission findings using the latest forensic science and almost universally confirmed them. The fact that the HSCA were open to a conclusion of a conspiracy based on the bogus dictablet recording shows they were willing and able to tear up the Warren Commission report. They actually re-affirmed all of their findings.

    Wasting your time trusting people who job was to protect government institutions. They only water down things to not rock the boat. We have evidence, overwhelming evidence of a conspiracy. I don't believe in magic bullets that can change direction mid flight. I tend to trust people who where there who saw present to witness the event unfold. I trust the policemen who found the rifle. I believe the Doctors of Parkland Hospital are telling the truth. I trust the ballistic expert testimony. I believe what i see with my own eyes. The recent actions by the CIA and the FBI to redact information from files, only further strengths my belief we live in a world full of secrets..


  • #573
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    nope. 7.5 and 7.65 are different calibers. you also said that the eyewitness said it had 7.65 Mauser stamped on the barrel. there really are so many holes in what you are putting forward

    What are you even on about? Did you miss this part The suspicion has been based to some extent on allegations that police officers who first discovered the rifle identified it as a 7.5 millimeter German Mauser.

    Have you ever seen a 7.5mm gun? This obviously reference to the bullet type of the weapon.


  • #574
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,925 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    What are you even on about? Did you miss this part The suspicion has been based to some extent on allegations that police officers who first discovered the rifle identified it as a 7.5 millimeter German Mauser.

    you said it had 7.65 mauser on the barrel. if it had 7.65 mauser on the barrel it could not have a 7.5. they are different calibers. your eyewitness is either incorrect or lying
    Cheerful Spring wrote: »

    Have you ever seen a 7.5mm gun? This obviously reference to the bullet type of the weapon.

    you seem to think such a caliber does not exist. you would be wrong. again.


  • #575
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you said it had 7.65 mauser on the barrel. if it had 7.65 mauser on the barrel it could not have a 7.5. they are different calibers. your eyewitness is either incorrect or lying



    you seem to think such a caliber does not exist. you would be wrong. again.

    The discovery of a rifle 22 Nov 1963 and this report by the HSCA. years later, are separate events! I don't see the correlation between the two events?

    Capt Fritz was a high ranking Dallas police officer. How did he misidentify the weapon stamp of Mauser 7.65? Roger Craig Deputy Sheriff, he too got it wrong really? All 4 police officers who found the rifle said it was a Mauser 7.65 rifle found.


  • #576
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,925 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    The discovery of a rifle 22 Nov 1963 and this report by the HSCA. years later, are separate events! I don't see the correlation between the two events?

    was there anybody else who said that the rifle wasn't a carcano apart from Craig et al?
    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Capt Fritz was a high ranking Dallas police officer. How did misidentify the weapon stamp of Mauser 7.65. Roger Craig Deputy Sheriff, he too got it wrong really? All 4 police officers who found the rifle said it was a Mauser 7.65 rifle found.

    perhaps they were lying?


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  • #577
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    The guy with the mauser and Lee Harvey. Did they fight do you think over the best spot. If they were both in the Book Depository they were both gonna want the window with the best view. I wonder did they have a bust up over it.


  • #578
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    was there anybody else who said that the rifle wasn't a carcano apart from Craig et al?



    perhaps they were lying?

    All four officers who found the rifle identified it as a Mauser 7.65 rifle. Nobody on the scene said it was a Carcano rifle they found. Capt Fritz at the Warren Commission said the rifle was a Mauser because he like Roger Craig saw the stamp/identifying mark along the barrel of the gun ( Mauser 7.65) I don't know what the Warren Commissioners thought when they heard this or they discuss this or care? We know though the Warren commission panel ignored other pieces of evidence and this was a only showcase investigation and they were not looking to find a conspiracy. Oswald was going to be found guilty no matter what evidence was to be shown otherwise.


  • #579
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,925 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    All four officers who found the rifle identified it has a Mauser 7.65 rifle. Nobody on the scene said it was a Carcano rifle they found. Capt Fritz at the Warren Commission said the rifle was a Mauser because he like Roger Craig saw the stamp/identifying along the barrel of the gun ( Mauser 7.65) I don't know what the Warren Commissioners thought when they heard this or they discusse this or care? We know though the Warren commission panel ignored other pieces of evidence and this was a only showcase investigation and they were not looking to find a conspiracy. Oswald was going to be found guilty no matter what evidence was to be shown otherwise.

    explain how the bullets that hit Kennedy were 6.5 carcano and not 7.65?


  • #580
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    explain how the bullets that hit Kennedy were 6.5 carcano and not 7.65?

    Fact
    Among the files released by the Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB) was an FBI evidence envelope (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122). Although the envelope was empty, the cover indicated it had contained a 7.65 mm rifle shell that had been found in Dealey Plaza after the shooting. The envelope is dated 2 December 1963, so the shell was found sometime between 11/22/63 and 12/2/63.

    There was cover up after Kennedy got shoot. If all we know more bullets are found, destroyed, or hidden away somewhere in a government vault.

    I open to the possibility Oswald fired at Kennedy with a Carcano rifle and fled with the gun. The evidence though is strong they found a Mauser 7.65 at the Texas School book Depository.


  • #581
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,925 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Fact
    Among the files released by the Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB) was an FBI evidence envelope (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122). Although the envelope was empty, the cover indicated it had contained a 7.65 mm rifle shell that had been found in Dealey Plaza after the shooting. The envelope is dated 2 December 1963, so the shell was found sometime between 11/22/63 and 12/2/63.

    There was cover up after Kennedy got shoot. If all we know more bullets are found, destroyed, or hidden away somewhere in a government vault.

    I open to the possibility Oswald fired at Kennedy with a Carcano rifle and fled with the gun. The evidence though is strong they found a Mauser 7.65 at the Texas School book Depository.

    you didnt answer the question. kennedy was shot with a 6.5 carcano round. how do you explain that?


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  • #582
    Cortina_MK_IV
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭Cortina_MK_IV


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    <snip>
    I open to the possibility Oswald fired at Kennedy with a Carcano rifle and fled with the gun. The evidence though is strong they found a Mauser 7.65 at the Texas School book Depository.

    Why slow himself down and run through Dallas with a rifle?


  • #583
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Cortina_MK_IV wrote: »
    Why slow himself down and run through Dallas with a rifle?

    Roger Craig and Roy Copper another Eyewitness spotted someone who looked like Oswald leaving the Texas School Book Depository in a rambler station wagon. Another man was driving the rambler station wagon. Warren commission version is different.


  • #584
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    you didnt answer the question. kennedy was shot with a 6.5 carcano round. how do you explain that?

    There is nothing, no evidence Kennedy was hit by a Carcano bullet.The government has never produced photographic evidence or the fragments of the bullet removed from Kennedy Skull at Parkland Hospital. The case rests entirely on the shells found at the Texas School book Depository and with the pristine bullet found on the stretcher at Parkland Hospital. And who was spotted at Parkland Hospital after Kennedy just got shot or good friend Jack Ruby. A number of journalists saw him there.


  • #585
    Charmeleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Charmeleon


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    There is nothing, no evidence Kennedy was hit by a Carcano bullet.The government has never produced photographic evidence or the fragments of the bullet removed from Kennedy Skull at Parkland Hospital. The case rests entirely on the shells found at the Texas School book Depository and with the pristine bullet found on the stretcher at Parkland Hospital. And who was spotted at Parkland Hospital after Kennedy just got shot or good friend Jack Ruby. A number of journalists saw him there.

    Incorrect, fragments of an exploded bullet were found in the car, these were analysed for the HSCA and found to be consistent with a Carcano bullet.



  • #586
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Charmeleon wrote: »
    Incorrect, fragments of an exploded bullet were found in the car, these were analysed for the HSCA and found to be consistent with a Carcano bullet.


    It not incorrect you just stated he found fragments of a bullet in the car! This is evidence that can be planted after the shooting. I have never seen his testimony so i have to watch it, but i stand by what i said. There is no evidence that i know of Kennedy was killed by a Carcano bullet.


  • #587
    Charmeleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Charmeleon


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    It not incorrect you just stated he found fragments of a bullet in the car! This is evidence that can be planted after the shooting. I have never seen his testimony so i have to watch it, but i stand by what i said. There is no evidence that i know of Kennedy was killed by a Carcano bullet.

    Watch the video. A couple of dozen pieces of lead were found in JFK's skull, these exactly matched the fragments of lead found in the car and were consistent but not identical to the fragments from the bullet found on Connolly's stretcher. So expert scientific analysis shows two bullets that were extremely similar to each other and unusual in the range of available bullets were found in the car. One was a Carcano bullet and one was almost certainly a different bullet from the same batch.


  • #588
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Charmeleon wrote: »
    Watch the video. A couple of dozen pieces of lead were found in JFK's skull, these exactly matched the fragments of lead found in the car and were consistent but not identical to the fragments from the bullet found on Connolly's stretcher. So expert scientific analysis shows two bullets that were extremely similar to each other and unusual in the range of available bullets were found in the car. One was a Carcano bullet and one was almost certainly a different bullet from the same batch.

    Problems with this testimony. and it is only 5 minutes long. According to the guy asking the questions there was 33 fragments found and only 2 of the fragments got delivered to the doctor for analyse ( who delivered? government?) How does he know those fragments are not given to him to proof the case against Oswald. Why was he not allowed to test the other fragments for bullet type? And i honestly hate doctors who are convinced they know what the other 31 fragments are without knowing for sure by scientific means. Is this another paid for government shill?


  • #589
    Charmeleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Charmeleon


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Problems with this testimony. and it is only 5 minutes long. According to the guy asking the questions there was 33 fragments found and only 2 of the fragments got delivered to the doctor for analyse ( who delivered? government?) How does he know those fragments are not given to him to proof the case against Oswald. Why was he not allowed to test the other fragments for bullet type? And i honestly hate doctors who are convinced they know what the other 31 fragments are without knowing for sure. Is this another paid for government shill?

    You can say that about any piece of evidence ever presented at trial. I would bet my last tenner that if he said it was from a German rifle you would present this as the ultimate proof of a second shooter.

    Ten years later someone else tests them and finds they are different, what then?


  • #590
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Charmeleon wrote: »
    You can say that about any piece of evidence ever presented at trial. I would bet my last tenner that if he said it was from a German rifle you would present this as the ultimate proof of a second shooter.

    Ten years later someone else tests them and finds they are different, what then?


    I want not there that day either was you. Least two of the police officers who found the rifle was convinced it was a Mauser 7.65 rifle. Please tell me the reason the two police officers misread a identifying stamp on the rifle?


  • #591
    Charmeleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭Charmeleon


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    I want not there that day either was you. Least two of the police officers who found the rifle was convinced it was a Mauser 7.65 rifle. Please tell me the reason the two police officers misread a identifying stamp on the rifle?

    At that time the Mauser name was like a generic name for a foreign bolt action rifle. Ex-army vets of WWII were more familiar with german guns than Italian ones so it would naturally spring to mind when they see one like it hidden behind some boxes. It would be like saying 'I saw a Biro' or 'a Hoover'. The photos of the rifle found in the TSBD show it is a Carcano and the photos of it being taken away shortly after show it is a Carcano.


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  • #592
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Charmeleon wrote: »
    At that time the Mauser name was like a generic name for a foreign bolt action rifle. Ex-army vets of WWII were more familiar with german guns than Italian ones so it would naturally spring to mind when they see one like it hidden behind some boxes. It would be like saying 'I saw a Biro' or 'a Hoover'. The photos of the rifle found in the TSBD show it is a Carcano and the photos of it being taken away shortly after show it is a Carcano.

    They saw the name Mauser 7.65 on the barrel of the gun. You want to be a right fool to mistake this.

    Anyway i think i going to wind down my time talking about JFK. I post if something new is found. I love to talk about this subject every day, but the other half will murder me.


  • #593
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Wikileaks posted this the other day Not only have they redacted pages. They have gone in and retouched pages, this is a crime!

    CIA violates Trump's promise to release JFK files with only names+addresses redacted. Most pages entirely blank e.g https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10188-10000.pdf …


  • #594
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Wikileaks posted this the other day Not only have they redacted pages. They have gone in and retouched pages, this is a crime!

    CIA violates Trump's promise to release JFK files with only names+addresses redacted. Most pages entirely blank e.g https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10188-10000.pdf …


    So you think that the CIA documented the assassination of their own president. A written plan. How to manuals. What I did for the summer. Debriefings and feedback. Allowed those documents to go into storage. And left them undestroyed in storage for fifty years. And now it's suddenly occurred to them that they're to be released. And to continue the cover up they've blacked out a few lines.

    Nothing would be committed to paper. And if it was it would be long since destroyed.

    James Files who claims to be the shooter, claims he has a written diary his boss kept detailing a lot of killings including this one.
    There again he's made the whole thing up.


  • #595
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Are Am Eye wrote: »
    So you think that the CIA documented the assassination of their own president. A written plan. How to manuals. What I did for the summer. Debriefings and feedback. Allowed those documents to go into storage. And left them undestroyed in storage for fifty years. And now it's suddenly occurred to them that they're to be released. And to continue the cover up they've blacked out a few lines.

    Nothing would be committed to paper. And if it was it would be long since destroyed.

    James Files who claims to be the shooter, claims he has a written diary his boss kept detailing a lot of killings including this one.
    There again he's made the whole thing up.

    The CIA did not kill the President. People employed by the CIA likely killed him, there is a difference. Their reaction and stopping the files coming out, yes i believe the files had information they did not want people to see. They have removed all information, not just blackened out. One file for example had 221 pages only 10 pages now left has information. 211 pages just blank every bit of information on those pages is missing. This is a clear violation. They lifted the middle finger to Trump !


  • #596
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    The CIA did not kill the President. People employed by the CIA likely killed him, there is a difference. Their reaction and stopping the files coming out, yes i believe the files had information they did not want people to see. They have removed all information, not just blackened out. One file for example had 221 pages only 10 pages now left has information. 211 pages just blank every bit of information on those pages is missing. This is a clear violation. They lifted the middle finger to Trump !

    Why don't you address the point that's made in the post you're quoting.
    The point is that any hypothetical conspiracy is not going to document their secretive and illegal(treasonous) actions.
    If they're not documented then they are not in official files to be released.
    So whatever is redacted or not and for whatever reason (there are many normal and proper reasons to withhold information) will not be something that proves or suggests an assassination by CIA, Mafia, Cubans, Russians, Elvis or Aliens.


  • #597
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Are Am Eye wrote: »
    Why don't you address the point that's made in the post you're quoting.
    The point is that any hypothetical conspiracy is not going to document their secretive and illegal(treasonous) actions.
    If they're not documented then they are not in official files to be released.
    So whatever is redacted or not and for whatever reason (there are many normal and proper reasons to withhold information) will not be something that proves or suggests an assassination by CIA, Mafia, Cubans, Russians, Elvis or Aliens.

    The CIA does document activities and plans to carry out terrorism acts against foreign leaders and countries.The Files withheld are JFK related files. There is no reason to keep 50 year old information secret still. You only do this to hide stuff from the public.


  • #598
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    The CIA does document activities

    You actually believe the CIA documented its assassination of JFK.

    You haven't a clue.


  • #599
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Are Am Eye wrote: »
    You actually believe the CIA documented its assassination of JFK.

    You haven't a clue.

    Not they documented the killing. There could be information in those documents that could link people together an pieced together by researchers could open new avenues of research to who killed JFK. The CIA has documents on Jack Ruby and his activities before the killing of JFK. There potentially is information in there that could be previously unknown to researchers? There is lot of data the CIA has that could be explosive in the right hands!


  • #600
    branie2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,325 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    One bizarre theory is that Jackie killed JFK


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  • #601
    Chrongen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭Chrongen


    What about the 6 witnesses who testified that there was a bullet hole on the windshield, including the guy who was tasked with swapping it out in Detroit and replacing it with a new windshield before the car was returned to Washington?


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