JFK Files

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You're a person who is clearly in denial. You can't even accept Connolly testimony you're a lost cause. There is no timeline when the rifle was shown to the News Reporters and onlookers. Do you not know a Carcano rifle and Mauser resemble each other on first look to a layman. We would have to look over this rifle over to be sure it was not a Mauser they are showing off, anyways either way you have yet to explain how Police officers can mistake identifying markings on the rifle they found? The Warren Commission own ballistic experts disagree with their findings, but this is the fault of Mark Lane and conspiracy minded people is this your belief. Nobody has replicated the magic bullet theory. You're peddling lies. According to you doctors who operated on Kennedy, the Ballistic experts, the eyewitnesses and police officers got it wrong, we should just trust the panel of politicians who wrote the Warren Commission report instead?

You're rambling, Im presenting fact that you're ignoring.

Do you really believe thats a Mauser they're holding up in the police station a couple of hours after? There is a timeline so thats about 4 major things you've gotten very wrong in the same amount of posts. Basic stuff. It was on TV that day for a start. Not 24 hours later.

So according to you, it said "Mauser" or whatever on the barrel in the TSBD, but didn't in the police station? Are there 3 rifles now? Because thats 100% a Carcano they have in the picture I posted. No markings on the barrel.

Heres the same rifle being taken out of the TSBD earlier that day in front of dozens of random witnesses.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Now look at the rifle the guy at the police station is holding up in the air. If you put a scope on the Mauser it would resemble the gun shown.

Yeah at a glance to a non expert but it was confirmed very quickly, ie within the hour, that it was a Carcano. This isn't up for debate.

Where are you getting this 24 hours thing from?

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

your image link is broken.

One other thing you need to explain. If the rifle used was a 7.65 mauser how were the rounds used 6.5?

They must've planted the gun but forgot to plant the correct rounds. And hoped that the bullets couldn't be identified. For a conspiracy this size they didn't do the basics well. Now we have three rifles.

See this is where CTs fall apart. Not a shred of evidence. And then they ignore facts when presented with them and move on to something else. "Oh ...but. but.... the doctor said this....., errr.... Clay Shaw......."

ohnonotgmail

I found a mauser variant that looks a little like a carcano (though considerable longer)



unfortunately they were never stamped 7.65 mauser on the barrel so we are back to square one.

The Nal

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

unfortunately they were never stamped 7.65 mauser on the barrel so we are back to square one.

Don't bother, really. You're going down a black hole. Theres nothing there. None of Garrisons stuff is worth it. Even lunatic CTs ignore what Garrison did now.

Cheerful Spring

Here is the two rifles side by side with each.

Mauser 7.65 rifle with no scope. Rifle at the police station with scope.

branie2

Oswald wasn't given a nitrate test to see if he had used the rifle.

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Here is the two rifles side by side with each.

Mauser 7.65 rifle with no scope. Rifle at the police station with scope.

nope. still not working

Cheerful Spring

branie2 wrote: »

Oswald wasn't given a nitrate test to see if he had used the rifle.

The smoking gun is the bullet.

This is the Carcano bullet hitting the wrist with bone. This is ignoring all the other injuries sustained. The bullet cap is completely shattered. How can this bullet be the same bullet that hit Kennedy and Connolly?

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

nope. still not working

What not working?

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

What not working?

A few of the links youve posted

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Don't bother, really. You're going down a black hole. Theres nothing there. None of Garrisons stuff is worth it. Even lunatic CTs ignore what Garrison did now.

What did Garrision do wrong? It proven Clay Shaw was a CIA employee. Eyewitnesses saw him least 1 time with Oswald, just not enough evidence there to convict him. Oswald was spotted with David Ferrie and Guy Banister numerous times. Even Oswald Free Cuba leaflets got printed right next door to Guy Bannister office.

Same building.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

A few of the links youve posted

Which ones?

branie2

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

What did Garrision do wrong? It proven Clay Shaw was a CIA employee. Eyewitnesses saw him least 1 time with Oswald, just not enough evidence there to convict him. Oswald was spotted with David Ferrie and Guy Banister numerous times. Even Oswald Free Cuba leaflets got printed right next door to Guy Bannister office.

Same building.

And Clay Shaw

Cheerful Spring

branie2 wrote: »

And Clay Shaw

David Ferrie was murdered just seven days after the news Jim Garrison was investigating him. Innocent men don't commit suicide or worse get someone to murder them.

Tipsy McSwagger

branie2 wrote: »

Oswald wasn't given a nitrate test to see if he had used the rifle.

From my post 352 where I shut a certain poster up. And yes LHO was given a test to see if he fired a weapon that day.

Well you can’t get nitrates on your skin from firing a rifle. This is because there is no gap between the chamber and the barrel of a rifle where gasses can escape and thus stick to skin. On the other hand there is a gap between barrel and cylinder on a revolver and Oswald had a positive result of firing a revolver recently, the one he shot Officer Tippit with.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It proven Clay Shaw was a CIA employee.

Nope. He had contact with them, mainly around business dealings. As did hundreds of successful businessmen. The jury found him not guilty in under an hour. It was a joke.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Even Oswald Free Cuba leaflets got printed right next door to Guy Bannister office.

Nope. Thats the address Oswald had stamped on them. Which was Carlos Bringuiers old office address, which is why Oswald put it on there, to annoy Bringuier, to provoke him to hit him so to gain sympathy from the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. We've already covered this.

The Bannister, Ferrie, Shaw link is all Garrison. And all widely refuted. "The whole thing was silly" according to Mark Lane.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

What did Garrision do wrong?

Garrisons case was based almost entirely on Perry Russo (that one witness I assume you're referring to) who admitted to lying.

"I then asked him was Clay Shaw at this party, he replied do you want to know the truth, I stated yes, he said I don't know if he was there or not. "

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Yeah at a glance to a non expert but it was confirmed very quickly, ie within the hour, that it was a Carcano. This isn't up for debate.

Where are you getting this 24 hours thing from?



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I remember reading they did not show the rifle or identify till many hours later., You see the timeline outlined here with this link, the carcano explanation was a day later.
https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/669

Tipsy McSwagger

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

David Ferrie was murdered just seven days after the news Jim Garrison was investigating him. Innocent men don't commit suicide or worse get someone to murder them.

It's blatant obvious you are getting all your info from the movie JFK.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

David Ferrie was murdered just seven days after the news Jim Garrison was investigating him. Innocent men don't commit suicide or worse get someone to murder them.

Theres absolutely no evidence for that. He died of an aneurysm, possibly accelerated by stress.

Or are the coroners in on it too?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I remember reading they did not show the rifle or identify till many hours later., You see the timeline outlined here with this link, the carcano explanation was a day later.
https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/669

OK but you said 24 hours? Whats happened to that assertion?

There are pictures and video taken of it on the day. Within a couple of hours. Which have been analysed thoroughly.

THE HSCA:

Over the years, skepticism has arisen as to whether the rifle found in the depository by Boone is the same rifle that was delivered to the Warren Commission and is presently stored in the National Archives. The suspicion has been based to some extent on allegations that police officers who first discovered the rifle identified it as a 7.5 millimeter German Mauser. (77) The controversy was intensified by the allegation that various photographs of the rifle, taken at different times, portray inconsistencies with respect to the proportions of the various component parts. (78)

To resolve the controversy, the committee assembled a wide range of photographs of the rifle: a police photograph taken where it was found in the depository; a motion picture film taken by a television station showing the rifle when it was found by the police; a series of photographs of a police officer carrying the rifle from the depository; photographs taken as the rifle was carried through the halls of Dallas Police Department; and photographs taken later by the FBI and Dallas Police Department. (79)

The examination by committee photographic consultants determined that all photographs were of the same rifle. Both a study of proportions and a comparison of identifying marks indicated that only one rifle was involved. (80)

Page 51 here

https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/part-1a.html

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Nope. He had contact with them, mainly around business dealings. As did hundreds of successful businessmen. The jury found him not guilty in under an hour. It was a joke.



Nope. Thats the address Oswald had stamped on them. Which was Carlos Bringuiers old office address, which is why Oswald put it on there, to annoy Bringuier, to provoke him to hit him so to gain sympathy from the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. We've already covered this.

The Bannister, Ferrie, Shaw link is all Garrison. And all widely refuted. "The whole thing was silly" according to Mark Lane.



Garrisons case was based almost entirely on Perry Russo (that one witness I assume you're referring to) who admitted to lying.

"I then asked him was Clay Shaw at this party, he replied do you want to know the truth, I stated yes, he said I don't know if he was there or not. "

Actually the court case lasted over a month, i believe? The Jury took an hour to allow him to go free. From what i know the verdict was they believed Jim Garrision had proven a 'conspiracy' but had not proven beyond all doubt Clay Shaw was guilty or knowingly was part of the conspiracy to kill John Kennedy. Unfortunately a News reporter broke the news early of an investigation and this forced Jim Garrision to bring Shaw to court early. If given more time he could have unraveled the entire thing. Is not refuted there is plenty of eyewitnesses who saw Oswald, Ferrie, Oswald even Ruby together. The Warren Commission just disbelieved everyone and just left it at that.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

From what i know the verdict was they believed Jim Garrision had proven a 'conspiracy'

Proof please. Jury interviews, quotes (in context!) etc.

I can provide jury interviews where they say the whole thing was a jokeshop but Ill let you go first.

ohnonotgmail

The Nal wrote: »

Theres absolutely no evidence for that. He died of an aneurysm, possibly accelerated by stress.

Or are the coroners in on it too?



OK but you said 24 hours? Whats happened to that assertion?

There are pictures and video taken of it on the day. Within a couple of hours. Which have been analysed thoroughly.

THE HSCA:

Over the years, skepticism has arisen as to whether the rifle found in the depository by Boone is the same rifle that was delivered to the Warren Commission and is presently stored in the National Archives. The suspicion has been based to some extent on allegations that police officers who first discovered the rifle identified it as a 7.5 millimeter German Mauser. (77) The controversy was intensified by the allegation that various photographs of the rifle, taken at different times, portray inconsistencies with respect to the proportions of the various component parts. (78)

To resolve the controversy, the committee assembled a wide range of photographs of the rifle: a police photograph taken where it was found in the depository; a motion picture film taken by a television station showing the rifle when it was found by the police; a series of photographs of a police officer carrying the rifle from the depository; photographs taken as the rifle was carried through the halls of Dallas Police Department; and photographs taken later by the FBI and Dallas Police Department. (79)

The examination by committee photographic consultants determined that all photographs were of the same rifle. Both a study of proportions and a comparison of identifying marks indicated that only one rifle was involved. (80)

Page 51 here

https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/part-1a.html

wait. 7.5 mauser? why does CS keep saying 7.65?

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Theres absolutely no evidence for that. He died of an aneurysm, possibly accelerated by stress.

Or are the coroners in on it too?



OK but you said 24 hours? Whats happened to that assertion?

There are pictures and video taken of it on the day. Within a couple of hours. Which have been analysed thoroughly.

THE HSCA:

Over the years, skepticism has arisen as to whether the rifle found in the depository by Boone is the same rifle that was delivered to the Warren Commission and is presently stored in the National Archives. The suspicion has been based to some extent on allegations that police officers who first discovered the rifle identified it as a 7.5 millimeter German Mauser. (77) The controversy was intensified by the allegation that various photographs of the rifle, taken at different times, portray inconsistencies with respect to the proportions of the various component parts. (78)

To resolve the controversy, the committee assembled a wide range of photographs of the rifle: a police photograph taken where it was found in the depository; a motion picture film taken by a television station showing the rifle when it was found by the police; a series of photographs of a police officer carrying the rifle from the depository; photographs taken as the rifle was carried through the halls of Dallas Police Department; and photographs taken later by the FBI and Dallas Police Department. (79)

The examination by committee photographic consultants determined that all photographs were of the same rifle. Both a study of proportions and a comparison of identifying marks indicated that only one rifle was involved. (80)

Page 51 here

https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/part-1a.html

He just mysteriously dies seven days later of stress? Why would he be stressing if innocent? He just dies 7 days after an investigation linking him to JFK assassination, no mystery to this for you?

Perry Russo thing: Ron Lewis good friend of Oswald is on the record claims Lee was Pro Castro when he met him, but later started hanging out with Anti Castro people. He changed his mind. He send Lee was running guns with Ruby, Banister and Ferrie. Ron said he was hanging out with dangerous Cuban Exiles groups and CIA people.

This is a day after the killing. Kennedy was shot on the 22th.
11/23/1963 3:58 PM SSSA determines that the weapons mailed by Kleins was an Italian
CARBINE model 1891 TROOP SPECIAL - C-2766

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Proof please. Jury interviews, quotes (in context!) etc.

I can provide jury interviews where they say the whole thing was a jokeshop but Ill let you go first.

Garrision case against Shaw was poor that's well known. What we know now the jury did not know back then Shaw was a CIA man, Garrision could not proof it back then, but we have now confirmation from the CIA he was a part time paid employee.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

He just mysteriously dies seven days later of stress? Why would he be stressing if innocent? He just dies 7 days after an investigation linking him to JFK assassination, no mystery to this for you?

Because he was implicated in the entire thing? I was wrongfully arrested before but it was stressful.

The coroners found no signs of murder or suicide. Fact.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

wait. 7.5 mauser? why does CS keep saying 7.65?

Thats 4 rifles no so......

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Because he was implicated in the entire thing? I was wrongfully arrested before but it was stressful.

The coroners found no signs of murder or suicide. Fact.



Thats 4 rifles no so......

Even though we can't prove this statement. He was found dead seven days later.. Garrison's aide, Lou Ivon, stated that Ferrie telephoned him the day after the story of Garrison's investigation broke and told him, "You know what this news story does to me, don't you. I'm a dead man. From here on, believe me, I'm a dead man....

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

wait. 7.5 mauser? why does CS keep saying 7.65?

Could be the Calibre/cartiridge of the bullet the rifle uses his signifying? They use a 7.5mm

Charmeleon

I don’t think the JFK movie accurately portrayed Garrison’s initial assertions that JFK was shot in the midst of a gay love triangle. I certainly don’t remember Kevin Costner saying those words.

I think public perception of the JFK movie would be significantly different if the two memorable quotes were ‘back and to the right’ and ‘violent gay love triangle’

If it had been, people would have known from the movie that Garrison was a buffoon, Oliver Stone a fraud and Oswald guilty, without having to find out afterwards.

Cheerful Spring

Charmeleon wrote: »

I don’t think the JFK movie accurately portrayed Garrison’s initial assertions that JFK was shot in the midst of a gay love triangle. I certainly don’t remember Kevin Costner saying those words.

I think public perception of the JFK movie would be significantly different if the two memorable quotes were ‘back and to the right’ and ‘violent gay love triangle’

If it had been, people would have known from the movie that Garrison was a buffoon, Oliver Stone a fraud and Oswald guilty, without having to find out afterwards.

The fraud was the Warren commission report. No right thinking human being should believe this nonsense, but there seems to be people who do believe in it still. Maybe you prefer to believe the world is not a dirty place with bad people in it.

Charmeleon

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The fraud was the Warren commission report. No right thinking human being should believe this nonsense, but there seems to be people who do believe in it still. Maybe you prefer to believe the world is not a dirty place with bad people in it.

The HSCA re-examined all of the critical Warren Commission findings using the latest forensic science and almost universally confirmed them. The fact that the HSCA were open to a conclusion of a conspiracy based on the bogus dictablet recording shows they were willing and able to tear up the Warren Commission report. They actually re-affirmed all of their findings.

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Could be the Calibre/cartiridge of the bullet the rifle uses his signifying? They use a 7.5mm

nope. 7.5 and 7.65 are different calibers. you also said that the eyewitness said it had 7.65 Mauser stamped on the barrel. there really are so many holes in what you are putting forward