NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

oscarBravo · 31-10-2017 05:53PM

turbbo wrote: »

BS! The only reason Eir are rolling out fibre to the 300k is because Mobile and 4G - the NBP has had no influence on them, in fact they(Eir) have had an influence on the delay of an NBP.
None of my neighbours use landlines or copper anymore - they've become obsolete with the speeds that can be got on 4g and mobile it has removed the need for a landline.

If 4G is such a panacea, why not get a 4G connection for a household with several 4k TVs and a couple of modern consoles? If 4G is the answer, why are so many people on here waiting with bated breath for a fibre connection?

I thought we had moved past the bizarre idea that a mobile connection was an adequate substitute for proper infrastructure, but it seems the painful lessons of the NBS still haven't been learned.

MajesticDonkey · 31-10-2017 06:22PM

turbbo wrote: »

they've become obsolete with the speeds that can be got on 4g and mobile it has removed the need for a landline.

Now that right there is BS.

turbbo · 31-10-2017 06:23PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

If 4G is such a panacea, why not get a 4G connection for a household with several 4k TVs and a couple of modern consoles? If 4G is the answer, why are so many people on here waiting with bated breath for a fibre connection?

I thought we had moved past the bizarre idea that a mobile connection was an adequate substitute for proper infrastructure, but it seems the painful lessons of the NBS still haven't been learned.

That wasn't my point at all.
My point was that 4g and mobile has pushed Eir into action on all the crap copper connections that are 10 miles away from an exchange. Before 4g they sat on their arses. 4g is of course not adequate but it's better than the crap Eir were flogging before fibre.

turbbo · 31-10-2017 06:26PM

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Now that right there is BS.

Definitely not in my case. 4g is far superior than what I could get with my fixed dsl line. That is a FACT.

BandMember · 31-10-2017 06:58PM

turbbo wrote: »

BS! The only reason Eir are rolling out fibre to the 300k is because Mobile and 4G - the NBP has had no influence on them.

I've read some rubbish on this thread, but that statement is pretty much top of the list now.... :rolleyes:

Ultimanemo · 31-10-2017 07:05PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

If 4G is such a panacea, why not get a 4G connection for a household with several 4k TVs and a couple of modern consoles? If 4G is the answer, why are so many people on here waiting with bated breath for a fibre connection?

I thought we had moved past the bizarre idea that a mobile connection was an adequate substitute for proper infrastructure, but it seems the painful lessons of the NBS still haven't been learned.

4G is no match to fixed broadband, but for many people like myself , this is the best we can get.
NBP is scaring companies so they can't invest in 4G or even 5G technology, So neither we got Fibre nor there is a hope that we will get better mobile broadband and we know this NBP is a joke.
We are stuck

Ultimanemo · 31-10-2017 07:22PM

Quote from bonkers.ie dated 10/08/2017

Coming in at 36th doesn’t sound too terrible globally speaking but when you consider that just two years ago we ranked 7th, the fall reflects our country’s failure to keep developing at a competitive pace.

https://www.bonkers.ie/blog/broadband-phone/ireland-global-speed-test/.
.
That is a clear indication whatever done is no good.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 31-10-2017 08:28PM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

4G is no match to fixed broadband, but for many people like myself , this is the best we can get.
NBP is scaring companies so they can't invest in 4G or even 5G technology, So neither we got Fibre nor there is a hope that we will get better mobile broadband and we know this NBP is a joke.
We are stuck

You have made this assertion several times now. What evidence do you have that the NBP has made companies reluctant to invest in newer technologies?

I have already mentioned eir's €200m investment, then there was the €78m spent by five companies earlier this year in the 3.6Ghz auction, both occurring in the shadow of the NBP.

Gonzo · 31-10-2017 08:30PM

4g is no match for any fixed line broadband/fibre unless you are an extremely light user who just reads emails and light social media usage because of the tiny data caps.

With 8 meg ADSL it was sure slow, but I was able to do everything download games, watch Netflix etc with a 1tb cap, the speed was a pain but it got the job done.

Not surprised Ireland has fallen back so many places in the speed rankings. Ireland was 7th over 2 years ago when the FTTC rollout really gained momentum, but those speeds were impressive over 2 years ago. Since then countries like Spain have rolled out FTTH across urban and rural areas really quickly. Meanwhile most of our urban areas have 30-90 meg connections with the exception of Virgin Media customers and a few Siro customers. Eir's 300k has progressed far too slowly compared to what happens in other European countries and the NBP is still sitting in some filling cabinet.

oscarBravo · 31-10-2017 08:39PM

turbbo wrote: »

My point was that 4g and mobile has pushed Eir into action on all the crap copper connections that are 10 miles away from an exchange. Before 4g they sat on their arses. 4g is of course not adequate but it's better than the crap Eir were flogging before fibre.

You do realise that eir are one of the companies flogging 4G, right?

Look, I mean no disrespect, but everyone in the industry knows that the NBP is the reason for the 300k rollout. You can claim that eir are spending millions rolling out rural fibre infrastructure because they're terrified of a technology that they themselves are deploying, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Ultimanemo wrote: »

NBP is scaring companies so they can't invest in 4G or even 5G technology...

5G technology doesn't exist, because the standards haven't been ratified yet. As for not investing in 4G, that's precisely the opposite of the argument that the rapid rollout of 4G is what prompted eir's 300k fibre rollout.

Ultimanemo · 31-10-2017 11:33PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

5G technology doesn't exist, because the standards haven't been ratified yet

May be but there is a small chance it will be here in 5 years.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/ireland-5g

NBP
Forget about

ED E · 31-10-2017 11:36PM

We havent got significant 4.1G, will you ever stop bringing up 5G? We'll have supercomputer smartphones eventually, but do ya bring that up in every mobile phone thread?

Ultimanemo · 01-11-2017 12:01AM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

You have made this assertion several times now. What evidence do you have that the NBP has made companies reluctant to invest in newer technologies?

then there was the €78m spent by five companies earlier this year in the 3.6Ghz auction, both occurring in the shadow of the NBP.

This is not investment, this is tax imposed on them.
I don't understand this, Why the government taxes companies who are trying to build a broadband network and and subsidizing another company for NBP.
If the government wants better infrastructure for broadband why do they take €78 as tax from companies who are trying to build those infrastructure

tsue921i8wljb3 · 01-11-2017 12:10AM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

This is not investment, this is tax imposed on them.
I don't understand this, Why the government taxes companies who are trying to build a broadband network and and subsidizing another company for NBP.
If the government wants better infrastructure for broadband why do they take €78 as tax from companies who are trying to build those infrastructure

You are arguing about semantics now. The companies involved are aware of the process, I would wager that they see the fees paid as part of the investment in improving their networks.

You still have not demonstrated any evidence for your claim that the NBP is stifling investment by ISPs. Here is Imagine's plan:

Imagine is currently spending more than €1 million a month on the national rollout of its 4G long-term evolution (LTE) network.

Currently, it has 50 live sites across the State. It plans to grow this to 400 sites within three years, courtesy of a €300 million war chest stumped up by existing shareholders and new investors, plus cashflow from the business.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/fibre-broadband-figures-an-indictment-of-government-strategy-1.3005472

wexfordman2 · 01-11-2017 01:29AM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

This is not investment, this is tax imposed on them.
I don't understand this, Why the government taxes companies who are trying to build a broadband network and and subsidizing another company for NBP.
If the government wants better infrastructure for broadband why do they take €78 as tax from companies who are trying to build those infrastructure

The spectrum being auctioned off is a national resource, would you be happy with us giving away oil and gas resources ?

The Cush · 01-11-2017 02:35AM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

May be but there is a small chance it will be here in 5 years.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/ireland-5g

NBP
Forget about

5G will most likely be launched here in mid 2020 when the 700 MHz band becomes available to the MNOs. Unfortunately it's still radio spectrum based so there will be a point where demand will exceed available capacity and contrary to Minister Naughten's wish that the licences be awarded on a geographic coverage basis rather than a population coverage, Comreg's position doesn't appear to be as clear cut.

I live in an area where 2G reception is mediocre and 3G/4G is practically non existent, where eir's 300k fibre rollout stops less than a km from me. My expectation is that I'll have access to NBP FTTH before 5G is ever available in our area.

turbbo · 01-11-2017 10:39AM

BandMember wrote: »

I've read some rubbish on this thread, but that statement is pretty much top of the list now.... :rolleyes:

Again out of context - just grab a line out of context - I will repeat 4g is far superior to the copper connection that is miles away from an exchange. End of - please don't cut lines out of context to feed your own ego!

turbbo · 01-11-2017 10:47AM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

You have made this assertion several times now. What evidence do you have that the NBP has made companies reluctant to invest in newer technologies?

I have already mentioned eir's €200m investment, then there was the €78m spent by five companies earlier this year in the 3.6Ghz auction, both occurring in the shadow of the NBP.

200m here 78m there - this is not serious investment -- it's patch work. Consider what the spend is on the HSE for 1 year - go and paste "HSE annual budget" into google. I know there are apples and oranges however it puts into some sort of perspective the type of investment required to be serious about providing a world class communications network on this island. FFS it cost 500m to build a dual carriageway from gort to tuam. It's time people woke up to the fact that broadband in ireland is way down on any politicians list because they don't see it as a priority and like all politicians it's all short term planning.

Marlow · 01-11-2017 11:03AM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

If this is the case, that shouldn't have been allowed, or eir should have been given the NBP contract from day one. now it will make other companies bidding for NBP contract just waste of time.

Why do you think SIRO pulled out of the NBP ? Because it became a waste of their time !

But allowing or not allowing is not the question here. Any provider can roll out their infrastructure where they want ... just a matter, of how they prioritize their investment. Eir clearly had clear objectives. And they reflect in the gaps and nonsense of their FTTH roll out to date.

/M

turbbo · 01-11-2017 11:04AM

Gonzo wrote: »

4g is no match for any fixed line broadband/fibre unless you are an extremely light user who just reads emails and light social media usage because of the tiny data caps.

:rolleyes: not having a go at ftth or fttc or in fact ADSL if it's above 10mbs. However there is a massive population of internet users in Ireland who have decided to move from a crappy 2/3mb connection to 4G. Because it's better and cheaper. I am one of them. I would love to have a option of a better fixed line service but I don't.
So again don't take this as an attack on fixed line quality service - it's an attack on the crap that Eir have been peddling in rural areas for years and are still peddling.

turbbo · 01-11-2017 11:13AM

The Cush wrote: »

5G will most likely be launched here in mid 2020 when the 700 MHz band becomes available to the MNOs. Unfortunately it's still radio spectrum based so there will be a point where demand will exceed available capacity and contrary to Minister Naughten's wish that the licences be awarded on a geographic coverage basis rather than a population coverage, Comreg's position doesn't appear to be as clear cut.

I live in an area where 2G reception is mediocre and 3G/4G is practically non existent, where eir's 300k fibre rollout stops less than a km from me. My expectation is that I'll have access to NBP FTTH before 5G is ever available in our area.

Yes for all the mobile 3g/4g blackspots in ireland - you can triple it for decent fixed line services. So thinking that the NBP is gonna overtake it, is pretty optimistic given they've already managed to loose 3 year doing SFA.

Ultimanemo · 01-11-2017 03:07PM

turbbo wrote: »

:rolleyes: not having a go at ftth or fttc or in fact ADSL if it's above 10mbs. However there is a massive population of internet users in Ireland who have decided to move from a crappy 2/3mb connection to 4G. Because it's better and cheaper. I am one of them. I would love to have a option of a better fixed line service but I don't.
So again don't take this as an attack on fixed line quality service - it's an attack on the crap that Eir have been peddling in rural areas for years and are still peddling.

X2

Ultimanemo · 01-11-2017 03:19PM

The Cush wrote: »

I live in an area where 2G reception is mediocre and 3G/4G is practically non existent, where eir's 300k fibre rollout stops less than a km from me. My expectation is that I'll have access to NBP FTTH before 5G is ever available in our area.

I feel your pain as I am in the same boat with marginal 4G cover
But I am afraid this is wishful thinking,they are just kicking the can, if they were serious about NBP they would have started it with the 300K

Johnboy1951 · 01-11-2017 04:13PM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

I feel your pain as I am in the same boat with marginal 4G cover
But I am afraid this is wishful thinking,they are just kicking the can, if they were serious about NBP they would have started it with the 300K

Not sure what you mean by this

tsue921i8wljb3 · 01-11-2017 04:22PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by this

It confused me too. I assume they mean eir or the government should have started the NBP rollout when starting the 300K plan. Whichever entity they are referring to it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the process as eir most likely would not have the manpower or funding to undertake such a task the legality of which could be questioned. Likewise the Department cannot willy-nilly decide to undermine their own procurement process by starting a rollout when tenders have not even been submitted yet.

listermint · 01-11-2017 04:26PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

It confused me too. I assume they mean eir or the government should have started the NBP rollout when starting the 300K plan. Whichever entity they are referring to it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the process as eir most likely would not have the manpower or funding to undertake such a task the legality of which could be questioned. Likewise the Department cannot willy-nilly decide to undermine their own procurement process by starting a rollout when tenders have not even been submitted yet.

It is very much a 'ss' tbh. 3 years and tenders are not even in. Laughable , we are out there trying to attract business to Ireland post brexit and we dont seem to visualize BB infrastructure as serious capital investment.

We should be trying to foster small local business nationwide not looking to roll out the easiest 300k locations first. Yes the difficult work should have been up front and the tenders should have been decided in year 1.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 01-11-2017 04:32PM

turbbo wrote: »

200m here 78m there - this is not serious investment -- it's patch work. Consider what the spend is on the HSE for 1 year - go and paste "HSE annual budget" into google. I know there are apples and oranges however it puts into some sort of perspective the type of investment required to be serious about providing a world class communications network on this island. FFS it cost 500m to build a dual carriageway from gort to tuam. It's time people woke up to the fact that broadband in ireland is way down on any politicians list because they don't see it as a priority and like all politicians it's all short term planning.

The €278m is private sector funding and a comparison with the budget of the behemoth that is the HSE is unfair. If and when the NBP gets going obviously the investment required from the State would increase.

You are around long enough to know that these delays are an inevitable conclusion of government getting involved with various private concerns and trying to keep them all happy. Unfortunately that is the situation we find ourselves in and we can only hope for a speedier resolution so the building can actually begin.

Johnboy1951 · 01-11-2017 04:35PM

listermint wrote: »

It is very much a 'ss' tbh. 3 years and tenders are not even in. Laughable , we are out there trying to attract business to Ireland post brexit and we dont seem to visualize BB infrastructure as serious capital investment.

We should be trying to foster small local business nationwide not looking to roll out the easiest 300k locations first. Yes the difficult work should have been up front and the tenders should have been decided in year 1.

We ??

The 300k roll out is a commercial scheme by eir and is completely separate to the NBP, which is to be a subsidised roll out.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 01-11-2017 04:40PM

listermint wrote: »

It is very much a 'ss' tbh. 3 years and tenders are not even in. Laughable , we are out there trying to attract business to Ireland post brexit and we dont seem to visualize BB infrastructure as serious capital investment.

We should be trying to foster small local business nationwide not looking to roll out the easiest 300k locations first. Yes the difficult work should have been up front and the tenders should have been decided in year 1.

The pace of the project is a disappointment no doubt but it is such an unusual undertaking involving disparate competing private concerns and a large amount of public funding that once the lawyers and consultants got involved delays were inevitable.

listermint · 01-11-2017 05:47PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

We ??

The 300k roll out is a commercial scheme by eir and is completely separate to the NBP, which is to be a subsidised roll out.

I think we can all agree they are a tangled mass together.

That much is clear.

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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