NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

The Cush · 08-10-2017 11:21PM

The Cush wrote: »

Anyone know if Huawei are testing a wireless solution, the 2.6GHz band is vacant at the moment, what about the 26 and 42 GHz bands?

Huawei article on WTTx - http://www.huawei.com/en/publications/communicate/80/sprinting-the-last-mile-with-wttx

WTTx and MBB are both based on 4G/4.5G technology. WTTx serves households, while MBB serves individuals. Both can, to a certain extent, share network resources. When fiber optic is extended to areas that have WTTx coverage, WTTx network resources can be released to meet the surging demand in MBB traffic.
[...]
WTTx uses 2.3 GHz, 2.6 GHz, and 3.5 GHz, which offer large bandwidth and are efficient and inexpensive.

Comreg will be consulting on the release of the 2.3 GHz and 2.6 GHz bands within the next 12 months.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 08-10-2017 11:35PM

The Cush wrote: »

Huawei article on WTTx - http://www.huawei.com/en/publications/communicate/80/sprinting-the-last-mile-with-wttx

Comreg will be consulting on the release of the 2.3 GHz and 2.6 GHz bands within the next 12 months.

This WTTx is what Imagine are currently deploying. We see how well that is going.

http://www.huawei.com/en/news/2017/8/WTTxGame-Changer-Superfast-Broadband

oscarBravo · 08-10-2017 11:40PM

The Cush wrote: »

Huawei article on WTTx - http://www.huawei.com/en/publications/communicate/80/sprinting-the-last-mile-with-wttx

That article includes the subheading "WTTx: As fast as fiber".

Let's put that myth to bed once and for all. A single wavelength on a single fibre strand has more capacity than the entire usable radio spectrum.

So, yes: in marketing-speak, it's possible to deliver services with current wireless technology that are comparable in headline speeds to current entry-level fibre services. But wireless isn't infrastructure.The very same strands of fibre that are being installed in people's houses today will still be providing services decades from now, albeit with equipment changes at either end. Does anyone want to stick their neck out and claim that the same wireless equipment being installed today will be providing fibre-equivalent services a couple of decades from now?

The Cush · 08-10-2017 11:51PM

Denis Naughten: ... Why I have said that the scheme will be predominantly fibre is as follows. The only way to future-proof the network for 25 years is to roll out fibre. There is no way to future-proof it for 25 years except by using fibre. I suspect the majority of the 342,000 homes will be a fibre solution, but technology is changing. In fact, in one particular town a process is being piloted that involves fibre to the gate and a wireless connection into the home. That means the last 50 metres or 100 metres connection would use new wireless technology. To answer the Deputy's question, I expect that well over half the 342,000 homes would have pure fibre outside their gates.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/committees/?id=2017-09-27a.238#g341

Could WTTx be the wireless connection technology Denis Naughten was referring to in his reply? He would be aware of this through the NBP discussions with companies like eir, who have a chunk of spectrum in the 3.6 GHz band.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 09-10-2017 12:02AM

The Cush wrote: »

Could WTTx be the wireless connection technology Denis Naughten was referring to in his reply? He would be aware of this through the NBP discussions with companies like eir.

As oB has stated that does not make much sense. Why would they go to the trouble of doing all the groundwork, replacing poles, running cable, splicing etc only then to install additional wireless equipment at gates?

I believe that any wireless aspect of the plan would be more traditional PtMP deployments for the so called "fibre deserts" mentioned by Carolan Lennon.

The Cush · 09-10-2017 12:07AM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

As oB has stated that does not make much sense. Why would they go to the trouble of doing all the groundwork, replacing poles, running cable, splicing etc only then to install additional wireless equipment at gates?

Well someone is testing something wireless from the gate, note, only testing in one location. For sure he didn't make it up so it would be interesting to know what tech is being used.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 09-10-2017 12:11AM

The Cush wrote: »

Well someone is testing something wireless from the gate, note, only testing in one location. For sure he didn't make it up so it would be interesting to know what tech is being used.

The trouble is he has become so fond of claiming credit for any broadband project in the country that it could literally be any operator.

godskitchen · 09-10-2017 12:52PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

The trouble is he has become so fond of claiming credit for any broadband project in the country that it could literally be any operator.

It could also just as easily be some lad in his constituency who is getting BB from a neighbour down the road with some ubiquiti ptp units because he was in at DN complaining about how his neighbour could get decent BB but he couldn't.

fergus1001 · 10-10-2017 10:06PM

15 million was allocated to the procurement process of the NBP today just incase people missed it while salivating over there extra 2 euro a week

BarryM · 12-10-2017 08:19AM

"procurement process" hasn't that been going on since forever? What will 15M€ doe for actual implementation, nothing.

More jobs for the boys for "advice...."

KOR101 · 20-10-2017 08:15PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/eir-sues-state-in-bid-to-block-comreg-sanction-1.3263105

Johnboy1951 · 20-10-2017 08:18PM

KOR101 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/eir-sues-state-in-bid-to-block-comreg-sanction-1.3263105

Hardly a surprise ....... apparently Eir have legal grounds so let the battle commence!

Marlow · 21-10-2017 01:46AM

I would just hope that Comreg and the Minister stand their ground and actually give Comreg more regulatory rights on certain aspects of wired telecoms.

Even though this is only a dream, more than likely.

/M

uncle_sam_ie · 29-10-2017 10:47AM

As expected this is all turning out to be yet another big nothingburger. Why are they wasting all this time and money. Just get on with it.
But, no.
So when is the next deadline? Next year I suppose and then more legal waffling dragging it out for years. It's going to be Eir in the end so just give them the dam contract already and let them get on with it. :mad:

Ultimanemo · 29-10-2017 11:00AM

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

As expected this is all turning out to be yet another big nothingburger. Why are they wasting all this time and money. Just get on with it.
But, no.
So when is the next deadline? Next year I suppose and then more legal waffling dragging it out for years. It's going to be Eir in the end so just give them the dam contract already and let get on with it. :mad:

Then it could be difficult for the boys to find something else to justify their jobs and have meetings and discussions about it.
The only thing this NBP is doing, it is stopping companies from investing money in BB infrastructure. I wish if it has never existed.

AidenL · 29-10-2017 05:54PM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

Then it could be difficult for the boys to find something else to justify their jobs and have meetings and discussions about it.
The only thing this NBP is doing, it is stopping companies from investing money in BB infrastructure. I wish if it has never existed.

I agree.

Us poor buggers under the NBP will be lucky to be connected by 2021 onwards it seems.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 29-10-2017 06:04PM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

Then it could be difficult for the boys to find something else to justify their jobs and have meetings and discussions about it.
The only thing this NBP is doing, it is stopping companies from investing money in BB infrastructure. I wish if it has never existed.

If the NBP did not exist do you believe that eir would be spending €200m to pass 300000 homes with fibre, thereby bringing the fibre deeper into rural areas making it more likely that the people in those areas will eventually have access to fibre connections?

Ultimanemo · 29-10-2017 07:07PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

If the NBP did not exist do you believe that eir would be spending €200m to pass 300000 homes with fibre, thereby bringing the fibre deeper into rural areas making it more likely that the people in those areas will eventually have access to fibre connections?

Yes I do, eir is doing that because it is commercially viable to them to do so.

Johnboy1951 · 29-10-2017 07:10PM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

Yes I do, eir is doing that because it is commercially viable to them to do so.

It is likely only commercially desirable to prevent another operator gaining those customers while being subsidised by the NBP.

It is no coincidence that this only occurred when there was serious competition for the NBP contracts.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 29-10-2017 07:32PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It is likely only commercially desirable to prevent another operator gaining those customers while being subsidised by the NBP.

It is no coincidence that this only occurred when there was serious competition for the NBP contracts.

This I believe is the truth. eir saw their long term future being threatened and reacted aggressively to cut that threat off. I think it is somewhat naive to believe that without this threat that they would have committed to such a rapid deployment of FTTH.

Ultimanemo · 29-10-2017 09:01PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

This I believe is the truth. eir saw their long term future being threatened and reacted aggressively to cut that threat off. I think it is somewhat naive to believe that without this threat that they would have committed to such a rapid deployment of FTTH.

If this is the case, that shouldn't have been allowed, or eir should have been given the NBP contract from day one. now it will make other companies bidding for NBP contract just waste of time.

Johnboy1951 · 29-10-2017 09:54PM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

If this is the case, that shouldn't have been allowed, or eir should have been given the NBP contract from day one. now it will make other companies bidding for NBP contract just waste of time.

What you think should or should not have been allowed makes no allowance for the legal requirements which govern the NBP.

Ultimanemo · 30-10-2017 08:28AM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

What you think should or should not have been allowed makes no allowance for the legal requirements which govern the NBP.

God has ten commandments others can be changed.
Anyway
This thread is three years old, NBP announced three years ago and not a single pole has been erected in NBP front, it is not working and probably will never do, eir connected 300K that is good and will help to reduce the contention on mobile broadband. but that is it, the funny thing is they say the will subsidize the NBP but they are charging mobile broadband companies €78m to give a licence to operate 5G.

Johnboy1951 · 30-10-2017 09:36AM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

God has ten commandments others can be changed.

You might well believe so, but you have not provided any evidence or convincing links.

Anyway
This thread is three years old, NBP announced three years ago and not a single pole has been erected in NBP front, it is not working and probably will never do, eir connected 300K that is good and will help to reduce the contention on mobile broadband. but that is it, the funny thing is they say the will subsidize the NBP but they are charging mobile broadband companies €78m to give a licence to operate 5G.

turbbo · 31-10-2017 12:40PM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

God has ten commandments others can be changed.
Anyway
This thread is three years old, NBP announced three years ago and not a single pole has been erected in NBP front, it is not working and probably will never do, eir connected 300K that is good and will help to reduce the contention on mobile broadband. but that is it, the funny thing is they say the will subsidize the NBP but they are charging mobile broadband companies €78m to give a licence to operate 5G.

Something seriously dysfunctional about the way infrastructure is planned in Ireland. 3 years as you say the NBP was announced and not a hint of physical work started in fact it's further behind that when it started with legal problems.
WOW! The legal professions and the courts have this country bled dry.

Persiancowboy · 31-10-2017 03:10PM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

God has ten commandments others can be changed.
Anyway
This thread is three years old, NBP announced three years ago and not a single pole has been erected in NBP front, it is not working and probably will never do, eir connected 300K that is good and will help to reduce the contention on mobile broadband. but that is it, the funny thing is they say the will subsidize the NBP but they are charging mobile broadband companies €78m to give a licence to operate 5G.

Your assertions on NBP and 5G are both incorrect.

I have grass growing in the middle of the road outside my house yet thanks to eir's rural investment programme I now have a ftth connection giving me almost 150mbps download. That connection was unthinkable a couple of years ago given the remoteness of where my house is located...it has only become possible because of the NBP and eir's fear of SIRO winning large areas of rural Ireland in the NBP tendering process(such an outcome would have also endangered eir's lucrative fixed-line rental income). Connecting premises such as mine is not remotely commercial for eir.

The NBP only exists because of clear market failure....no commercial entity is going to provide such connectivity without some State subsidisation so while you are perfectly entitled to rightly criticise the length of time it is taking, without the NBP there is absolutely no possibility of any decent broadband connectivity in large parts of rural Ireland.

In relation to 5G, there is no market failure in relation to the provision of mobile broadband in this country and therefore the spectrum necessary to facilitate its roll-out (a national strategic asset) is auctioned by ComReg. Why should the State subsidise this?

uncle_sam_ie · 31-10-2017 03:31PM

Persiancowboy wrote: »

Your assertions on NBP and 5G are both incorrect.

I have grass growing in the middle of the road outside my house yet thanks to eir's rural investment programme I now have a ftth connection giving me almost 150mbps download. That connection was unthinkable a couple of years ago given the remoteness of where my house is located...it has only become possible because of the NBP and eir's fear of SIRO winning large areas of rural Ireland in the NBP tendering process(such an outcome would have also endangered eir's lucrative fixed-line rental income). Connecting premises such as mine is not remotely commercial for eir.

The NBP only exists because of clear market failure....no commercial entity is going to provide such connectivity without some State subsidisation so while you are perfectly entitled to rightly criticise the length of time it is taking, without the NBP there is absolutely no possibility of any decent broadband connectivity in large parts of rural Ireland.

In relation to 5G, there is no market failure in relation to the provision of mobile broadband in this country and therefore the spectrum necessary to facilitate its roll-out (a national strategic asset) is auctioned by ComReg. Why should the State subsidise this?

Lucky you,

Gonzo · 31-10-2017 04:53PM

Persiancowboy wrote: »

Your assertions on NBP and 5G are both incorrect.

I have grass growing in the middle of the road outside my house yet thanks to eir's rural investment programme I now have a ftth connection giving me almost 150mbps download. That connection was unthinkable a couple of years ago given the remoteness of where my house is located...

very similar situation here and way I feel about the NBP. I live in a relatively rural area, about 32 houses on the road (ribbon development). Had 8 meg ADSL untill recently.

Back in 2013 I was getting very excited when Dunshaughlin was planned to finally get efibre. I was thinking if they stuck a cabinet about 400 meters away that it would take in most of the 32 houses as that was a central point. A few months later, a fellow boards.ie member pm'ed me details of where all the cabinets were going in the exchange area and the nearest cabinet to me was going to be 2km away right at the edge of town. I was gutted and I rang Eir after the rollout started and they said what was planned for Dunshaughlin was also the only cabinets that will ever happen here.

By 2014 Dunshaughlin was connected with about 11 cabinets and my area was left on ADSL which became relatively slower as internet demands become much more demanding. By this stage I had heard of the NBP and had given up all hope of ever seeing a connection speed faster than 8 megs.

Then Siro announced there plans to bring FTTH to rural Ireland, I had thought areas like mine would benefit but soon discovered what they really meant, was urban towns with already fast internet. Skip another 2 years, and now I have FTTH and am very grateful to have it, even if the usage caps annoy me!.

There isn't a hope in hell my area would have FTTH if it wasn't for the NBP and the threat of Siro winning over vast areas of countryside from Eir.

Eir's 300k rollout will provide fast broadband services to about 1/3 of rural Ireland when completed and that has to be a good thing. However I completely understand people's annoyance and frustration with the NBP and being left out of the 300k rollout. it is hard to believe that this thread was started over 3 years ago and there is still no announcement, despite the fact that Siro pulled out, at this stage just give it to Eir and get some action going.

turbbo · 31-10-2017 05:37PM

Gonzo wrote: »

very similar situation here and way I feel about the NBP. I live in a relatively rural area, about 32 houses on the road (ribbon development). Had 8 meg ADSL untill recently.

Back in 2013 I was getting very excited when Dunshaughlin was planned to finally get efibre. I was thinking if they stuck a cabinet about 400 meters away that it would take in most of the 32 houses as that was a central point. A few months later, a fellow boards.ie member pm'ed me details of where all the cabinets were going in the exchange area and the nearest cabinet to me was going to be 2km away right at the edge of town. I was gutted and I rang Eir after the rollout started and they said what was planned for Dunshaughlin was also the only cabinets that will ever happen here.

By 2014 Dunshaughlin was connected with about 11 cabinets and my area was left on ADSL which became relatively slower as internet demands become much more demanding. By this stage I had heard of the NBP and had given up all hope of ever seeing a connection speed faster than 8 megs.

Then Siro announced there plans to bring FTTH to rural Ireland, I had thought areas like mine would benefit but soon discovered what they really meant, was urban towns with already fast internet. Skip another 2 years, and now I have FTTH and am very grateful to have it, even if the usage caps annoy me!.

There isn't a hope in hell my area would have FTTH if it wasn't for the NBP and the threat of Siro winning over vast areas of countryside from Eir.

Eir's 300k rollout will provide fast broadband services to about 1/3 of rural Ireland when completed and that has to be a good thing. However I completely understand people's annoyance and frustration with the NBP and being left out of the 300k rollout. it is hard to believe that this thread was started over 3 years ago and there is still no announcement, despite the fact that Siro pulled out, at this stage just give it to Eir and get some action going.

Lucky you also - I live just outside a city and the fastest fixed line connection I can get is a 2.5 meg download, 0.5 meg upload. I'm waiting for Eir's 300k for end of 2018 as I'm "lucky" enough to be on a route that they are planning to do. Neighbours will have to wait on the NBP - god love them. It's a mockery at this stage.

turbbo · 31-10-2017 05:44PM

Persiancowboy wrote: »

Your assertions on NBP and 5G are both incorrect.

I have grass growing in the middle of the road outside my house yet thanks to eir's rural investment programme I now have a ftth connection giving me almost 150mbps download. That connection was unthinkable a couple of years ago given the remoteness of where my house is located...it has only become possible because of the NBP and eir's fear of SIRO winning large areas of rural Ireland in the NBP tendering process(such an outcome would have also endangered eir's lucrative fixed-line rental income). Connecting premises such as mine is not remotely commercial for eir.

The NBP only exists because of clear market failure....no commercial entity is going to provide such connectivity without some State subsidisation so while you are perfectly entitled to rightly criticise the length of time it is taking, without the NBP there is absolutely no possibility of any decent broadband connectivity in large parts of rural Ireland.

In relation to 5G, there is no market failure in relation to the provision of mobile broadband in this country and therefore the spectrum necessary to facilitate its roll-out (a national strategic asset) is auctioned by ComReg. Why should the State subsidise this?

BS! The only reason Eir are rolling out fibre to the 300k is because Mobile and 4G - the NBP has had no influence on them, in fact they(Eir) have had an influence on the delay of an NBP.
None of my neighbours use landlines or copper anymore - they've become obsolete with the speeds that can be got on 4g and mobile it has removed the need for a landline. Eir are aware of this and are trying to play catch up -
simples. They are moving forward out of necessity not out of any kind of progressive national pride. They're doing what business dictates. And no doubt they will price gouge on the way.

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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