The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

Billy86 · 30-10-2017 02:16AM

On the subject of divisiveness, it sounds like there is a major amount in Houston caused not by players, but by Bob McNair's comments during the week. Most players kneeled today before the game, and interviewed after LT Duane Brown said they had a meeting Saturday with him that "didn't go well", WR DeAndre Hopkins who had left training Friday in protest refused to comment, RB Deonte Foreman said he's still upset about it, Brown said he "has no clue" where things go from here, and there are rumours of him looking for a trade ASAP.

The deadline is 9pm Tuesday Irish time, it will be interesting to see what happens there. If they lose some players it's going to sting, right as Watson gave them the missing piece at QB they've been missing... they were looking like early dark horses next year with Watt back.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 30-10-2017 02:27AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well Ray rice isn't in the NFL as I speak so he got more than two games in the court of public opinion. That video was shocking to see and ray rice was a prick with what he did.

In the court of Goodell he got 2, before public opinion intervened.

eagle eye · 30-10-2017 12:09PM

Billy86 wrote:

So it is about him kneeling, which is odd since you supported him doing so at the time. A player being blacklisted for non-football, non-illegal, non-violent reasons is not "a mountain out of a molehill" - no two ways about it.

No, I'm saying that the kneeling set him. off on a path which led to him becoming a divisive character. I'm saying he is a poor player.
He is not being blacklisted for kneeling. He is not being picked up because coaches don't want a divisive player who adds nothing to the team. If he was a good player some coaches might take the chance.
The key difference here is that imo he is not blacklisted for kneeling, it's simply a poor player who has now become a divisive character.

Billy86 · 30-10-2017 12:21PM

That's where the argument falls apart - there are a number of teams where he adds more than nothing, GB right now being a good example. He's also not divisive, that's an excuse that carries no weight. The only people he would be divisive towards are the likes of Bob McNair who is after sparking an uprising in his own locker room with his comments and apparently the follow up meeting with the players on Saturday. Sure those guys write the cheques, but they are no part of the locker room.

eagle eye · 30-10-2017 01:11PM

In your opinion he adds something but in mine he adds nothing. Weight up that and the fact that he could cause division in the locker rom and for me he is not in any way worth a roster spot.

There are plenty of QBs out there who add more than he does imo and there is no baggage to worry about.

Matt Flynn is out there, he has done a job for the Packers before, I think he would be a far more attractive target.

Knex* · 30-10-2017 01:33PM

I agree with Eagle Eye's sentiment that if I was a headcoach I'd probably pass on Kaep. You're bringing a massive media circus into your building and its highly likely that it causes friction throughout the locker room, the fan base, and the franchise as a whole.

I'm not doing that unless he was the type of player who could guarantee me a playoff spot.

Billy86 · 30-10-2017 01:37PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Matt Flynn is out there, he has done a job for the Packers before, I think he would be a far more attractive target.

See, this along with talking about trading for a 31 year old with 78 career snaps or likely giving up two draft picks for a guy with 14 snaps are reasons why I said I'm about done with this. Matt Flynn last attempted an NFL pass in 2014, and it was just 16 over the season at that. You'd have to go back to 2013, four years, to find any substantial playing time from him when he was statistically worse than Kaepernick in a considerably better team, getting sacked at a higher rate than Kaepernick last season, and adding nothing on the ground either.

How about Jamarcus Russell? Johnny Manziel? Jimmy Clausen, maybe?

jack presley · 30-10-2017 01:40PM

Billy86 wrote: »

See, this along with talking about trading for a 31 year old with 78 career snaps or likely giving up two draft picks for a guy with 14 snaps are reasons why I said I'm about done with this. Matt Flynn last attempted an NFL pass in 2014, and it was just 16 over the season at that. You'd have to go back to 2013, four years, to find any substantial playing time from him when he was statistically worse than Kaepernick in a considerably better team, getting sacked at a higher rate than Kaepernick last season, and adding nothing on the ground either.

How about Jamarcus Russell? Johnny Manziel? Jimmy Clausen, maybe?

You left out Brett Favre

eagle eye · 30-10-2017 02:10PM

Billy86 wrote: »

See, this along with talking about trading for a 31 year old with 78 career snaps or likely giving up two draft picks for a guy with 14 snaps are reasons why I said I'm about done with this. Matt Flynn last attempted an NFL pass in 2014, and it was just 16 over the season at that. You'd have to go back to 2013, four years, to find any substantial playing time from him when he was statistically worse than Kaepernick in a considerably better team, getting sacked at a higher rate than Kaepernick last season, and adding nothing on the ground either.

How about Jamarcus Russell? Johnny Manziel? Jimmy Clausen, maybe?

Ah come on, the hyperbole here is ridiculous. If there were only four QBs available in the world I'd obviously pick Kaepernick ahead of those three.

I think you need to work on your lateral thinking too. I'm just using common sense here and putting myself in the shoes of a person who is going to make a decision on whether or not to hire Kaepernick.

Please quit with the stats to back up your argument. I've seen with my own eyes how bad Kaepernick has been. I'd love to hear who you consider a better QB all time, Cousins, Pennington, Romo or Aaron Rodgers. Just to help you on your way the worst completion percentage of those four is Aaron Rodgers.
Benjamin Disraeli talked about the different type of lies, Bill Belichick's comment is in my sig.

helimachoptor · 30-10-2017 02:11PM

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/924983879500468229

**** me

eagle eye · 30-10-2017 02:15PM

helimachoptor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/924983879500468229

**** me

OMG, I hope they succeed.

*****I just went and watched where it happened. I advise all not to watch it. It's horrific.

Itssoeasy · 30-10-2017 02:21PM

eagle eye wrote: »

OMG, I hope they succeed.

*****I just went and watched where it happened. I advise all not to watch it. It's horrific.

I'd agree with that. I just went and watched it and it's horrible.

madalig12 · 30-10-2017 02:22PM

helimachoptor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/924983879500468229

**** me

Terrible to watch. I had redzone on mute. I read today they didnt allow the TD...seriously that was a clear TD.

Billy86 · 30-10-2017 02:49PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Ah come on, the hyperbole here is ridiculous. If there were only four QBs available in the world I'd obviously pick Kaepernick ahead of those three.

I think you need to work on your lateral thinking too. I'm just using common sense here and putting myself in the shoes of a person who is going to make a decision on whether or not to hire Kaepernick.

Please quit with the stats to back up your argument. I've seen with my own eyes how bad Kaepernick has been. I'd love to hear who you consider a better QB all time, Cousins, Pennington, Romo or Aaron Rodgers. Just to help you on your way the worst completion percentage of those four is Aaron Rodgers.
Benjamin Disraeli talked about the different type of lies, Bill Belichick's comment is in my sig.

Yeah, you really don't want to compare the overall statistics of those guys with Rodgers... at all. But sure you already knew that.

Matt Flynn has not seen the field for as good as three years, and has not seen substantial playing since in four, around the same time you were a fan of Kaepernick's. He actually looked to have good potential before he left GB initially but the shoulder injuries destroyed his chances and abilities, which is why he was cut from GB for a rookie that is still struggling three years later, despite him being a reported good friend of Rodgers' whom he also had a good rapport with in terms of clipboard duties, sideline assistance, etc. He has been done for a long time, and even as someone that was quite fond of Flynn, it's hilarious to claim he is a better option for any team than Kaepernick at this point.

I also do not believe in the least that Kaepernick would be divisive in a locker room, and have yet to see any evidence that kneeling is causing any issues in any locker rooms across the league - as opposed to owners referring to their players as 'inmates'.

eagle eye · 30-10-2017 02:55PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Yeah, you really don't want to compare the overall statistics of those guys with Rodgers... at all. But sure you already knew that.

Exactly, Rodgers is far better than any of those three I mentioned ever were. I was just pointing out how useless stats are.

Billy86 · 30-10-2017 03:12PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Exactly, Rodgers is far better than any of those three I mentioned ever were. I was just pointing out how useless stats are.

And part of why he is fat better is that he throws for more yards per play than all but Romo (tied), way more TDs per throw (best in the league since 1970), way less INTs per throw (best in NFL history), obviously then an absurdly better TD/INT ratio than any of them (best in NFL history), and a better passer rating than any of them (best in NFL history). He also scrambles for a lot more yards, leading to a way better, and has more rushing TDs and about double the scrambling yards of those three combined in 100 less games than them.

He does have a tendency to take more sacks from holding onto the ball for longer though and gets sacked more regularly than any of them did/do in their careers, so by your barometer from earlier he might well be behind those guys. I mean sure he played behind some very poor offensive lines in the earlier years of his career (thankfully GB have seen a huge improvement there more recently) but apparently that doesn't count.

Statistics are not the be all and end all, but pretending they are completely irrelevant is far wide of the mark; they often tell quite a bit of the story.

eagle eye · 30-10-2017 03:29PM

Billy86 wrote: »

And part of why he is fat better is that he throws for more yards per play than all but Romo (tied), way more TDs per throw (best in the league since 1970), way less INTs per throw (best in NFL history), obviously then an absurdly better TD/INT ratio than any of them (best in NFL history), and a better passer rating than any of them (best in NFL history). He also scrambles for a lot more yards, leading to a way better, and has more rushing TDs and about double the scrambling yards of those three combined in 100 less games than them.

He does have a tendency to take more sacks from holding onto the ball for longer though and gets sacked more regularly than any of them did/do in their careers, so by your barometer from earlier he might well be behind those guys. I mean sure he played behind some very poor offensive lines in the earlier years of his career (thankfully GB have seen a huge improvement there more recently) but apparently that doesn't count.

Statistics are not the be all and end all, but pretending they are completely irrelevant is far wide of the mark; they often tell quite a bit of the story.

You've often heard me talk glowingly about Aaron Rodgers. It's rare you hear me saying that QB's are awful.

Stats can be used to big up or put down anybody. I've seen people pick out specific ones to prove that Tom Brady is not as good as people suggest. You put a few in your post there that could be used to do the same with Aaron Rodgers.

What I'd tell somebody to do if they were listening to that rubbish is just go and watch the player(s) and make their own mind up.

I've watched Kaepernick and for the most part he was awful over the last few years. Tbh I never liked him as a passer but he had the athletic ability to escape and keep people off him. When I seen him last season he seemed to have slowed down and not have the ability to get away and he was making awful decisions like trying to get away from the pass rush and ending up losing big yardage.

OldMrBrennan83 · 30-10-2017 05:10PM

This post has been deleted.

TOss Sweep · 30-10-2017 05:54PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Ah come on, the hyperbole here is ridiculous. If there were only four QBs available in the world I'd obviously pick Kaepernick ahead of those three.

I love how the difference of opinion than you is hyperbole.

I think you need to work on your lateral thinking too. I'm just using common sense here and putting myself in the shoes of a person who is going to make a decision on whether or not to hire Kaepernick.

What has this got to do with him being sh1t? I asked you yesterday which you ignored do you think its because he is sh1t or is it the distractions? For what it is worth if you think distractions then you do believe the kneeling is an issue.

Please quit with the stats to back up your argument. I've seen with my own eyes how bad Kaepernick has been.

Doesn't make you right though. Just your opinion. He is not the worst QB in the league and he is certainly not the best either but his abilities are better than a lot of the sh1te teams have on their rosters. I would go as far and say he is better than any QB the Browns have had in the last 3-4 seasons.

TOss Sweep · 30-10-2017 05:59PM

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

2 different type of QBs but Flynn actually has got ability and as QBs go I would put both of them on the same level. Kap if we are basing on stats has a QB rating of 88.9 and Flynn 85.9. Flynn sat behind Rodgers for a long time and showed he could perform. I always wonder had he left the Packers earlier in his career would have done better elsewhere. Seemed like the money suited him to sit on the bench

raze_them_all_ · 30-10-2017 06:03PM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

2 different type of QBs but Flynn actually has got ability and as QBs go I would put both of them on the same level. Kap if we are basing on stats has a QB rating of 88.9 and Flynn 85.9. Flynn sat behind Rodgers for a long time and showed he could perform. I always wonder had he left the Packers earlier in his career would have done better elsewhere. Seemed like the money suited him to sit on the bench

He was terrible when he left. He fitted the system and weak teams we played. Flynn has the best agent in football

jack presley · 30-10-2017 06:12PM

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Flynn has the best agent in football

Better than Osweiller's...???

TOss Sweep · 30-10-2017 06:31PM

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

He was terrible when he left. He fitted the system and weak teams we played. Flynn has the best agent in football

How do you measure how bad he was when he barely got his game when he left the Packers. Played in 3 games after leaving the Packers. Full game he played for the Raiders he actually did ok although the Raiders will tell you differently and blame him for the loss. Hard to say he was terrible when he didn't get a shot anywhere else other than the Packers. As you said though his agent deserves all the credit. But I do believe in my opinion he settled on the money and gave up trying to prove himself. Easy to sit on a bench and make millions more than you should

brinty · 30-10-2017 06:52PM

Sorry to ask but could we set up a separate Colin Kaepernick thread perhaps... this is now page on page off kaep talk

helimachoptor · 30-10-2017 10:36PM

Agree.

Knex* · 30-10-2017 11:59PM

https://twitter.com/patmcafeeshow/status/924700806997250049

Punters are people too. It might be the whole Irish and GAA heritage, but I actually quite like punting. Could also be that its been, on average, the Giants greatest play since about the second half of 2012. Maybe its an acquired taste, who knows.

Enjoyed this one too.

https://twitter.com/PatMcAfeeShow/status/924722088581136385

thomond2006 · 31-10-2017 12:26AM

Jimmy G to 49ers for second round pick.

eagle eye · 31-10-2017 12:32AM

That seems like a real bargain to me. I don't like losing Jimmy G but wish him the very best in San Fran.

Foxtrol · 31-10-2017 01:11AM

Think it is a good deal for both teams. Patriots were likely losing him for nothing at the end of the season and 49ers have two second round picks and this will likely allow them to trade down from a top pick in the first for one of the many QB needy teams to make that pick back plus interest.

Have to presume Shanahan wasn't overly keen on any of the QBs entering the draft, they don't seem to be quite living up to their hype. The more I watched Cousins the more I was worried about giving him an outrageous payday. Shanahan appears to have talked to Jimmy a lot during the draft process so hopefully they have a rapport and a side deal regarding his contract already set up or else they franchise him if necessary.

Makes the tail end of the 0-8 season a lot more interesting as a 9ers fan.

Hococop · 31-10-2017 05:28AM

Seems Elliot was denied an injunction so it seems the 6 game suspension is back on, or can it change again?

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

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