Saorview Connect

Tigerandahalf · 04-10-2017 03:12PM

The Cush wrote: »

Freesat remains the best option for satellite reception with, would you believe in 2017, an integrated HDD.

Why is the integrated hdd such a big issue.
Does it not make sense not to include it?
If this box lasts 10/15 years the internal hdd might not be big enough.

Also if the internal hdd had a fault the whole connect box would have to be sent away whereas an external one can just be replaced.

Harry Palmr · 04-10-2017 03:47PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Why is the integrated hdd such a big issue.
Does it not make sense not to include it?
If this box lasts 10/15 years the internal hdd might not be big enough.

Also if the internal hdd had a fault the whole connect box would have to be sent away whereas an external one can just be replaced.

In an age of terrabyte drives only a US drama freak would be worried about capacity and they should be buying or streaming box-sets anyway! As for HDD faults as far as I can see they are very rare.

Tigerandahalf · 04-10-2017 03:59PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

In an age of terrabyte drives only a US drama freak would be worried about capacity and they should be buying or streaming box-sets anyway! As for HDD faults as far as I can see they are very rare.

People can now download netflix productions to an external hard drive and take the hard drive with them on holidays etc.
It also opens up the possibility of downloading rte content (e.g. documentaries, etc) and viewing them abroad.

The Cush · 04-10-2017 04:05PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Why is the integrated hdd such a big issue.
Does it not make sense not to include it?
If this box lasts 10/15 years the internal hdd might not be big enough.

Also if the internal hdd had a fault the whole connect box would have to be sent away whereas an external one can just be replaced.

At that price, €220 (for a zapper box), the consumer would expect one to be included at a minimum, A simple plug and play solution out of the box without the added expense of adding an external HDD later. I've had them for years in a DVD/HDD recorder, Freesat/Freeview recorders. laptops, desktops etc. without issue.

JDxtra · 04-10-2017 04:15PM

The Ferguson Ariva 4K Combo Receiver provides for satellite and terrestrial channels. It runs on Android, and comes with Netflix, YouTube etc. You can add an internal hard drive for recording and timeshift. It costs €150.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 04-10-2017 04:31PM

The product has two tuners, both of which can be configured for S or T on the fly. Neat! There are two satellite connectors on the box but only one is enabled at the moment. We’re reserving the second one for any functions that the product owners wish to have that require it. For the moment it is not required/enabled.

keribillen, I'm somewhat confused by this. Let's assume that the recording function has been enabled in this scenario. I have a cable from my satellite dish connected to the one f connector that is in use on the box.

I am watching a satellite channel, (vertical, low frequency say More 4) I now want to record a programme on Kerrang! (horizontal, high frequency) while still watching More 4. How can the box send the required control signals to the LNB over one cable without losing lock on the original channel?

Tigerandahalf · 04-10-2017 04:35PM

Does this box only have 2 tuners so, thus meaning you can only record one/view one. If that is the case then it is better off that apps like Netflix are not on the box.

I think Kerri also mentioned that Saorsat wasn't catered for (in the part where he mentioned Netflix wasn't).

The Cush · 04-10-2017 04:36PM

Lincoln Important Syllable wrote: »

I am watching a satellite channel, (vertical, low frequency say More 4) I now want to record a programme on Kerrang! (horizontal, high frequency) while still watching More 4. How can the box send the required control signals to the LNB over one cable without losing lock on the original channel?

It can't hence the reason for 2 inputs, the second can be reactivated in the software when required as he posted earlier. Missed opportunity for wideband multiple tuners, at least Freesat will have them in the next generation boxes.

Johnboy1951 · 04-10-2017 04:37PM

Lincoln Important Syllable wrote: »

keribillen, I'm somewhat confused by this. Let's assume that the recording function has been enabled in this scenario. I have a cable from my satellite dish connected to the one f connector that is in use on the box.

I am watching a satellite channel, (vertical, low frequency say More 4) I now want to record a programme on Kerrang! (horizontal, high frequency) while still watching More 4. How can the box send the required control signals to the LNB over one cable without losing lock on the original channel?

The implication from what has been written is that it will use the other tuner (because each tuner is capable of DVB-T and DVB-S ???) ....... but no further details on how it can do this has been provided so far.

I fail to see how the NDA could be applicable to how the tuner operate or their capabilities, if they on the market.

The Cush · 04-10-2017 04:38PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Does this box only have 2 tuners so, thus meaning you can only record one/view one.

2 multi-format tuners which can be T or S as required.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 04-10-2017 04:41PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The implication from what has been written is that it will use the other tuner (because each tuner is capable of DVB-T and DVB-S ???) ....... but no further details on how it can do this has been provided so far.

I fail to see how the NDA could be applicable to how the tuner operate or their capabilities, if they on the market.

You still only have one cable though. Unless it is using something like FBC which would require a different LNB than the majority of homes would have.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 04-10-2017 04:45PM

The Cush wrote: »

It can't hence the reason for 2 inputs, the second can reactivated in the software when required as he posted earlier. Missed opportunity for wideband multiple tuners, at least Freesat will have them in the next generation boxes.

Thanks. I see that now.

Former Former · 04-10-2017 04:46PM

JDxtra wrote: »

The Ferguson Ariva 4K Combo Receiver provides for satellite and terrestrial channels. It runs on Android, and comes with Netflix, YouTube etc. You can add an internal hard drive for recording and timeshift. It costs €150.

And they can sell it in its factory condition to any country in Europe.

This is the fundamental problem any Saorview product - economy of scale, i.e. there is none.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 04-10-2017 04:51PM

I am guessing something fell through with another box manufacturer and this off the shelf hybrid box was rushed to stop the questions.

keribillen can you confirm that EKT were not the first manufacturer approached to bring this box to market?

Schorpio · 04-10-2017 04:51PM

Hi Kerri,

As others have done, I'd like to thank you for getting involved here.

What I can't get my head around is why your 'customer' only requested a single satellite input. I mean, you guys even admitted that it was just as easy to leave the second input in, but disabled in software.

I know you can't answer that for us, but it is genuinely frustrating - particularly for those of us who take an interest in broadcast standards and receivers. Do they genuinely not think the situation will arise whereby people might want to watch and record a satellite channel at the same time? (Even with the requirement to have an external hdd plugged in). It just seems that there is a disconnect between what the consumers want and what the decision-makers want (or are able to deliver).

My personal view is that if this stb had 2 satellite inputs, a single terrestrial input, two S2 tuners and two T2 tuners, a 500gb internal hdd, and Saorview connect - then it would justify it's €200 price tag. The box you have showcased so far, I'd value somewhere in the €60 to €80 range.

Implementation of the freesat, netflix and chromecast support would have had been pre-ordering as soon as I could - though I appreciate that isn't realistic (barring maybe netflix at some point).

The Cush · 04-10-2017 04:55PM

Former Former wrote: »

This is the fundamental problem any Saorview product - economy of scale, i.e. there is none.

Unfortunately the fall out from the failed commercial DTT project that so much work had been done on the mixed Nordig/MHEG standard for pay DTT, that only Ireland used. In hindsight we should have gone with UK standard D-Book with MPEG-4 video like New Zealand did, look at the range of Freeview products on the market. But we are where we are.

Tigerandahalf · 04-10-2017 05:09PM

The Cush wrote: »

2 multi-format tuners which can be T or S as required.

But still only 2 tuners can operate at any one time no matter what format (S2, T2, hbbtv) the tuner is switched to.

If the remote allows the hdmi input to be changed I can see myself picking up a freesat box to cater for series link and remote recording of the satellite channels.

Thurston? · 04-10-2017 05:12PM

Schorpio wrote: »

What I can't get my head around is why your 'customer' only requested a single satellite input.

Because the customer is Saorview, & the only satellite broadcasting they do is all on a single mux?

Schorpio wrote: »

It just seems that there is a disconnect between what the consumers want and what the decision-makers want (or are able to deliver).

Seems what the consumers want is a Freesat box. So just get a Freesat box.

Thurston? · 04-10-2017 05:13PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

... I can see myself picking up a freesat box to cater for series link and remote recording of the satellite channels.

Now you're getting it ...

Tigerandahalf · 04-10-2017 05:25PM

If one was to get a freesat box and split the one and only satellite feed, with 1 output to the connect box and 1 to the freesat box would that setup allow you to remote record on either if needed?
(Reason being that you could recall channels between sat and terrestrial)

Or is it better to just put the sat feed into the freesat and switch between the 2 hdmi inputs.

Thurston? · 04-10-2017 05:28PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

If one was to get a freesat box and split the one and only satellite feed, with 1 output to the connect box and 1 to the freesat box ...

Why would you want to split the feed like that?

Ah, did you edit your post? Switching inputs wouldn't annoy me anyway.

donegal. · 04-10-2017 05:29PM

what my customers want is a freesat box with all the bells and whistles that are available now.
and
a saorview box that does the same.

in one box, with one remote and one epg.

Tigerandahalf · 04-10-2017 05:35PM

Thurston? wrote: »

Why would you want to split the feed like that?

Ah, did you edit your post? Switching inputs wouldn't annoy me anyway.

Because I often watch sports on both sat and terrestrial at the same time - using the 'recall' button to quickly change between channels.

If I have the combi I can do that.

The freesat would be a back up for series link and remote recording (this might seem a small need but given that we don't have access to the bbc or itv players it is very handy for programmes like match of the day or other weekly shows).

lsjmhar · 04-10-2017 05:47PM

No point buying without bells and whistles. Wait another year and see how it pans out. â‚¬200 to watch tv - me thinks not!!

Harry Palmr · 04-10-2017 06:02PM

donegal. wrote: »

what my customers want is a freesat box with all the bells and whistles that are available now.
and
a saorview box that does the same.

in one box, with one remote and one epg.

What (and this is a broader topic really) was needed back in the day was for RTE to be incorporated into Freesat (for a fee of course !) when it was established within an appropriately regulated pan Irish Sea broadcasting environment. Everyone knows we watch UK telly on Freesat (or other FTA boxes) for nothing, the pity is that it operates as a grey market.

mackersdublin · 04-10-2017 07:29PM

As many have said already this box is going to so outdated by the time the recording facility etc are added next year

Freesat's new generation box will have the following specs according to their Chief Technology Officer

https://www.ibc.org/delivery/building-a-next-generation-set-top-box/2384.article

Johnboy1951 · 04-10-2017 07:35PM

mackersdublin wrote: »

As many have said already this box is going to so outdated by the time the recording facility etc are added next year

Freesat's new generation box will have the following specs according to their Chief Technology Officer

https://www.ibc.org/delivery/building-a-next-generation-set-top-box/2384.article

Sounds promising ...... although I hope their estimate of little or no UHD TV without 'protection' does not pan out.

I like the idea of multiple tuners and allowing access to them over the LAN.

Capt'n Midnight · 04-10-2017 08:55PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

If one was to get a freesat box and split the one and only satellite feed, with 1 output to the connect box and 1 to the freesat box would that setup allow you to remote record on either if needed?
(Reason being that you could recall channels between sat and terrestrial)

Or is it better to just put the sat feed into the freesat and switch between the 2 hdmi inputs.

For Freesat the LNB can be only be on one of four bands.

On some Freesat boxes you can loop the cable through to the Second tuner and change settings that allow you to look at two different transponders on the same tuner. It means you can't watch anything on the other three bands. There are lots of BBC and ITN regions and some are on different bands so you may be able to mix and match a bit.

Far better to change the LNB to a quad so you can use up to four cables.

The Cush · 04-10-2017 09:09PM

mackersdublin wrote: »

As many have said already this box is going to so outdated by the time the recording facility etc are added next year

Freesat's new generation box will have the following specs according to their Chief Technology Officer

https://www.ibc.org/delivery/building-a-next-generation-set-top-box/2384.article

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Sounds promising ...... although I hope their estimate of little or no UHD TV without 'protection' does not pan out.

I like the idea of multiple tuners and allowing access to them over the LAN.

Look at the specs of these Vestel boxes launched recently at IBC2017, far superior to the EKT box. The DVB-S2 might even be a next generation Freesat box.

DVB-T/T2 - http://vestelinternational.com/en/consumer-electronics/set-top-box/hd-dvb-t-t2/
DVB-S2 - http://vestel.co.uk/en/consumer-electronics/set-top-box/hd-dvb-s2/

Schorpio · 05-10-2017 08:46AM

Thurston? wrote: »

Because the customer is Saorview, & the only satellite broadcasting they do is all on a single mux?

Seems what the consumers want is a Freesat box. So just get a Freesat box.

I know the possibility of using Saorsat with this box has been discussed on here, but I don't think that's the intended use. Even Kerri has said that it has been included with 28.2 in mind.

Even if you use the Saorsat reasoning - surely you'd future-proof the service with the possibility of a second mux coming online at some point?

Regarding freesat, I take your point, but I disagree that consumers just want a freesat box. I have a separate freetsat/saorview setup and I'm absolutely fine with that that. On the other hand, my parents have recently ditched Sky, and now they cannot get their head around the fact that the 'channels' on the tv (Saorview) and the 'channels' on the freesat box are separate, and that you have to first select an input on the tv to access the freesat box.

Quite frankly, all they want is one remote to tell them what's on all of the channels they want to watch, and to be able to hit record with the option to series link etc. A 'set and forget' attitude. And I know there are other options out there, but from my own selfish point of view, I'd love an officially licensed freesat/saorview combi so that channel numbering is standardized, frequency updated are tracked and I won't be called round because 'this doesn't work anymore' etc. (Though again, I'm perfectly aware that no matter how much I want it, it's never going to happen).

Saorview Connect

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