The Sub 3 Support Thread

squinn2912 · 11-09-2017 05:00PM

Swashbuckler wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Consensus seems to be that pacers aren't much help then!
I have a question to throw out. My usual training week is made of 5 runs
1 - easy and short (7.50 p/m)
2 - up to 10 miles tempo 20-25 seconds quicker than MP (6.25 p/m)
3 - easy and short (7.50 p/m)
4 - mile intervals 60 seconds quicker than MP (5.50 p/m)
5 - long run about 60-80 seconds slower than MP (7.40 - 8.10 p/m)
Am I running the tempo run too fast? I'm pretty happy with the other parts of my week and usually do somewhere between 40-55 miles per week. Any other opinions or advice? I'm just back after injury so I'm slowly building up my fitness base and looking at long term goals.

The Tempo run is one that confuses me a bit too but the general consensus from what I've read is a Tempo run should be run somewhere near 10mile/half marathon pace. Given that your marathon pace is 7m/mile I'd imagine a tempo of 6:25 is pretty good. Some more experienced runners might have a different view but I thought as long as it feels "comfortably hard" then you're in the right region. Are all ten miles at that pace or do you build to it gradually?

Thanks for the feedback. All 10 would be fairly even. First 2 could be as fast as 6.15s then 4-5 hanging in there and a strong finishing 2-3 miles. It's an out and back, fairly flat route so that might explain things with headwind usually on the way out.
I know lots of the guys run 200s and 400s but I almost never do. 800 and 1600 which are killer but I think stand to you better.

Swashbuckler · 11-09-2017 05:07PM

squinn2912 wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. All 10 would be fairly even. First 2 could be as fast as 6.15s then 4-5 hanging in there and a strong finishing 2-3 miles. It's an out and back, fairly flat route so that might explain things with headwind usually on the way out.
I know lots of the guys run 200s and 400s but I almost never do. 800 and 1600 which are killer but I think stand to you better.

That doesn't sound like what I'd consider a true Tempo run. It should start at easy pace, build to tempo pace and then back to easy pace again.

I'd be interested to hear the opinions of others on here. What you're doing sounds like a tough tough run. "Hanging in there" implies you're almost racing the Tempo session.

RayCun · 12-09-2017 08:29AM

squinn2912 wrote: »

Consensus seems to be that pacers aren't much help then!
I have a question to throw out. My usual training week is made of 5 runs
1 - easy and short (7.50 p/m)
2 - up to 10 miles tempo 20-25 seconds quicker than MP (6.25 p/m)
3 - easy and short (7.50 p/m)
4 - mile intervals 60 seconds quicker than MP (5.50 p/m)
5 - long run about 60-80 seconds slower than MP (7.40 - 8.10 p/m)
Am I running the tempo run too fast? I'm pretty happy with the other parts of my week and usually do somewhere between 40-55 miles per week. Any other opinions or advice? I'm just back after injury so I'm slowly building up my fitness base and looking at long term goals.

I think too much of your week is made up of fast running, you should be running more of those 7:50 p/m runs, and running longer on them.
And your long run is a bit slow, if your MP is 6:50 then your long runs should be 7:40 to 7:50.
The tempo might be a bit fast, 15-20 seconds faster than MP would be fine, but the other things are a higher priority.

squinn2912 · 12-09-2017 03:27PM

Swashbuckler wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. All 10 would be fairly even. First 2 could be as fast as 6.15s then 4-5 hanging in there and a strong finishing 2-3 miles. It's an out and back, fairly flat route so that might explain things with headwind usually on the way out.
I know lots of the guys run 200s and 400s but I almost never do. 800 and 1600 which are killer but I think stand to you better.

That doesn't sound like what I'd consider a true Tempo run. It should start at easy pace, build to tempo pace and then back to easy pace again.

I'd be interested to hear the opinions of others on here. What you're doing sounds like a tough tough run. "Hanging in there" implies you're almost racing the Tempo session.

RayCun wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Consensus seems to be that pacers aren't much help then!
I have a question to throw out. My usual training week is made of 5 runs
1 - easy and short (7.50 p/m)
2 - up to 10 miles tempo 20-25 seconds quicker than MP (6.25 p/m)
3 - easy and short (7.50 p/m)
4 - mile intervals 60 seconds quicker than MP (5.50 p/m)
5 - long run about 60-80 seconds slower than MP (7.40 - 8.10 p/m)
Am I running the tempo run too fast? I'm pretty happy with the other parts of my week and usually do somewhere between 40-55 miles per week. Any other opinions or advice? I'm just back after injury so I'm slowly building up my fitness base and looking at long term goals.

I think too much of your week is made up of fast running, you should be running more of those 7:50 p/m runs, and running longer on them.
And your long run is a bit slow, if your MP is 6:50 then your long runs should be 7:40 to 7:50.
The tempo might be a bit fast, 15-20 seconds faster than MP would be fine, but the other things are a higher priority.

Yea I would say it is almost at race pace maybe 90%. I've always considered tempo to be all at one pace is what you're talking about more like a progression run? I've had the belief that I'm benefitting at the latter stages of the marathon because of the fact that I'm used to running hard when tired during the tempo runs.
So would you drop say the interval session in favour of getting some miles in? A lot of people seem to have great faith in getting out twice a day, all reasonably slow but I've never tried that.

squinn2912 · 12-09-2017 03:27PM

Swashbuckler wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. All 10 would be fairly even. First 2 could be as fast as 6.15s then 4-5 hanging in there and a strong finishing 2-3 miles. It's an out and back, fairly flat route so that might explain things with headwind usually on the way out.
I know lots of the guys run 200s and 400s but I almost never do. 800 and 1600 which are killer but I think stand to you better.

That doesn't sound like what I'd consider a true Tempo run. It should start at easy pace, build to tempo pace and then back to easy pace again.

I'd be interested to hear the opinions of others on here. What you're doing sounds like a tough tough run. "Hanging in there" implies you're almost racing the Tempo session.

RayCun wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

Consensus seems to be that pacers aren't much help then!
I have a question to throw out. My usual training week is made of 5 runs
1 - easy and short (7.50 p/m)
2 - up to 10 miles tempo 20-25 seconds quicker than MP (6.25 p/m)
3 - easy and short (7.50 p/m)
4 - mile intervals 60 seconds quicker than MP (5.50 p/m)
5 - long run about 60-80 seconds slower than MP (7.40 - 8.10 p/m)
Am I running the tempo run too fast? I'm pretty happy with the other parts of my week and usually do somewhere between 40-55 miles per week. Any other opinions or advice? I'm just back after injury so I'm slowly building up my fitness base and looking at long term goals.

I think too much of your week is made up of fast running, you should be running more of those 7:50 p/m runs, and running longer on them.
And your long run is a bit slow, if your MP is 6:50 then your long runs should be 7:40 to 7:50.
The tempo might be a bit fast, 15-20 seconds faster than MP would be fine, but the other things are a higher priority.

Yea I would say it is almost at race pace maybe 90%. I've always considered tempo to be all at one pace is what you're talking about more like a progression run? I've had the belief that I'm benefitting at the latter stages of the marathon because of the fact that I'm used to running hard when tired during the tempo runs.
So would you drop say the interval session in favour of getting some miles in? A lot of people seem to have great faith in getting out twice a day, all reasonably slow but I've never tried that.

Swashbuckler · 12-09-2017 03:40PM

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yea I would say it is almost at race pace maybe 90%. I've always considered tempo to be all at one pace is what you're talking about more like a progression run? I've had the belief that I'm benefitting at the latter stages of the marathon because of the fact that I'm used to running hard when tired during the tempo runs.
So would you drop say the interval session in favour of getting some miles in? A lot of people seem to have great faith in getting out twice a day, all reasonably slow but I've never tried that.

It's perfectly valid to do what you're doing with the Tempo if you feel it works for you. I guess it's easy to get lost in the science of all this stuff. A tempo run is meant to target your LT (I think), so if you're running it extremely hard then it's no longer a LT run and it becomes "something else".

If you feel it stands to you in the latter stages of a marathon then why not slow down the tempo run a bit and execute it as a tempo run (LT improvement) and then add some faster miles to your weekly long run at the end i.e. faster miles on tired legs.

Just my tuppence worth. There's a million and one ways to structure training.

(Also, just a warning, I haven't run a marathon so my advice comes from reading/shorter distance training as opposed to marathon experience. People like RayCun are far more experienced at actual long distance running than me).

squinn2912 · 12-09-2017 03:47PM

Ach yea that's it. I think the most important thing about training is to believe in it yourself from the off. If it gives you a mental edge and isnt injury threatening then I think go for it.
My half marathon times are around 1:24-1:25 and 10k is 37 something. I don't often work towards the shorter stuff even though I threaten to every year! Those are all in the middle of marathon training so there should be a wee bit more in them.
Yea that's something I would do. I tend to run 16 miles with a friend that could be much slower - 8:15s maybe and then the final 4-6 at 7:20s with maybe one on sub3 pace. Sometimes I just get the miles in without concerning myself too much what the pace is. I like to do one long run that lasts longer than 3 hours so need to go a bit slower to achieve that.

Swashbuckler · 12-09-2017 04:30PM

squinn2912 wrote: »

Ach yea that's it. I think the most important thing about training is to believe in it yourself from the off. If it gives you a mental edge and isnt injury threatening then I think go for it.
My half marathon times are around 1:24-1:25 and 10k is 37 something. I don't often work towards the shorter stuff even though I threaten to every year! Those are all in the middle of marathon training so there should be a wee bit more in them.
Yea that's something I would do. I tend to run 16 miles with a friend that could be much slower - 8:15s maybe and then the final 4-6 at 7:20s with maybe one on sub3 pace. Sometimes I just get the miles in without concerning myself too much what the pace is. I like to do one long run that lasts longer than 3 hours so need to go a bit slower to achieve that.

Looks like your Tempo is actually bang on where your HM pace is which is whats advised.....maybe it's not too fast afterall!

squinn2912 · 12-09-2017 05:03PM

Haha maybe I'm not too bad! I suppose it's my tried and trusted. I used to do 6 mile tempos and 10 mile medium paced runs but switched them around last year. I then had them increased up to 12 miles at 1/2 pace (that run nearly killed me) and then a verruca busted on my foot so I didn't make it on Marathon day and I've been out until a month ago! This is my fourth week back and I'm trying to plan for the spring time so I thought now was the time to get people's opinions.

angelzoo · 01-10-2017 04:29PM

Just wondering what's the max miles at marathon pace that people recommend?
I've read conflicting views. Some say up to 18 miles, others say max at 14 miles at MP? Confused

Itziger · 01-10-2017 04:44PM

angelzoo wrote: »

Just wondering what's the max miles at marathon pace that people recommend?
I've read conflicting views. Some say up to 18 miles, others say max at 14 miles at MP? Confused

18 sounds very, very tough. I know of people doing 16 on one or two occasions. One lad today was hoping to do Cork Cobh (15 miles) at MP pace. That sounds more or less perfect to me. An alternative that I and others have done is to break the miles into reps but not with a big generous rest period between. The rather successful Krusty speaks of 3x5 miles with 800mts Steady between, iirc.

noelearly · 01-10-2017 05:03PM

Itziger wrote: »

18 sounds very, very tough. I know of people doing 16 on one or two occasions. One lad today was hoping to do Cork Cobh (15 miles) at MP pace. That sounds more or less perfect to me. An alternative that I and others have done is to break the miles into reps but not with a big generous rest period between. The rather successful Krusty speaks of 3x5 miles with 800mts Steady between, iirc.

Registered User
Just wondering what's the max miles at marathon pace that people recommend?
I've read conflicting views. Some say up to 18 miles, others say max at 14 miles at MP? Confused

Yeah agree with Its 18 sounds way too much, recovery from that would throw me off for the next week. Longest Mp I did was the half marathon and I broke up a 20 mile run in 4 3 3 2 11 with a recovery mile in between each.

A good workout is the Yasso 800s. Do it once a month. Check it out. 10×800s with the same time recovery between, tiring but gives a good indication on how your fixed.

Djoucer · 01-10-2017 05:41PM

Read an article recently that suggested 18 miles mp, 4 weeks out.

https://www.runnersworld.com/the-fast-lane/how-well-can-your-quads-handle-a-beatdown/slide/1

I did 16 miles at mp recently and will probably leave it at that. Not sure my legs would handle 18 on top of the rest of marathon training.

It's great mentally though. Knowing you have 16 mp in the bag.

There are some that reckon that's the only positive from running mp pace is psychological.

Itziger · 01-10-2017 06:00PM

On the question of Yasso 800s. They evidently worked for Noel in Berlin prep!!! Can't say I'm a great fan of any reps less than a mile for marathon training myself.

Djoucer, psychological benefit is very important in itself but surely MP stuff is also getting the legs used to what they need to do on the day.

squinn2912 · 01-10-2017 08:04PM

Itziger wrote: »

On the question of Yasso 800s. They evidently worked for Noel in Berlin prep!!! Can't say I'm a great fan of any reps less than a mile for marathon training myself.

Djoucer, psychological benefit is very important in itself but surely MP stuff is also getting the legs used to what they need to do on the day.

I've done Yasso a couple of times building each week from 6 reps to 10 and once up to 12. The only thing I was running them between 2:50 and 2:55 and just taking 65-70 seconds rest. Embarrassingly it was because I read the instructions wrong. Great but demanding sessions. I think Yasso is a good indication but I've read and agree that +5 is probably a better forecast for your marathon.
I tried mile reps in spring time and that is a killer session. Didn't make it to the start line so can't say just how well it would have gone but I felt sharper with the 800s.
I do long tempos (what I call tempos) about 30 secs faster than mp and I go up to 10 miles but I don't run at mp during my long runs. Of you guys who have found that to be successful, do you adapt the week previous and following to allow for the increased effort on the saturday/sunday?

El Caballo · 01-10-2017 08:59PM

Djoucer wrote: »

Read an article recently that suggested 18 miles mp, 4 weeks out.

https://www.runnersworld.com/the-fast-lane/how-well-can-your-quads-handle-a-beatdown/slide/1

I did 16 miles at mp recently and will probably leave it at that. Not sure my legs would handle 18 on top of the rest of marathon training.

It's great mentally though. Knowing you have 16 mp in the bag.

There are some that reckon that's the only positive from running mp pace is psychological.

Done 30k(18.6) @MP 4 weeks out from DCM in 2014. Got through the session perfectly fine and on pace without being destroyed but wouldn't do it again, think it finished any sub-3 ambitions I had as I never really felt sharp after it. Probably should've just run a marathon that day and got it over with. Might be ok for an extreme slow twitcher but not for me.

On actual MP running, It's not that some people believe it's just a psychological edge, evidence and results prove otherwise that the training stimulus is greater than easy running. It's that they believe that the only thing special about specifically MP running is that it is close to Aerobic Threshold and I would be firmly in that group also. Canova for instance will have his runners do a lot of training at 102% and 98% of MP but very little to no MP running and it doesn't seem to hurt those guys. Lydiard was also a proponent of Aerobic tempos slightly faster than MP runs.

On Yassos, I'm not really a fan because the energy systems involved in a marathon and an interval session like that are completely different. Most people lack endurance or will have a different bias of speed to endurance which will skew any predictive value as some people will cruise an 800 session like that on speed alone but may have nowhere near
The endurance to back it up. May work for real slowtwitchers again but the people it will be inaccurate for will far outnumbered those whom it is accurate for so I wouldn't consider it a predictive tool by any means.

kerrylad1 · 01-10-2017 09:31PM

angelzoo wrote: »

Just wondering what's the max miles at marathon pace that people recommend?
I've read conflicting views. Some say up to 18 miles, others say max at 14 miles at MP? Confused

From 12 weeks out,every 2ND week,I do a M.P long run.20 with 12 at m.p and so on, up to 17miles MP with 3 miles warm up at 8min pace,a few weeks out.This seems to work for me.Everything else I run around 8 min pace,including my long slow run every other week up to 23 miles.

squinn2912 · 01-10-2017 10:00PM

kerrylad1 wrote: »

angelzoo wrote: »

Just wondering what's the max miles at marathon pace that people recommend?
I've read conflicting views. Some say up to 18 miles, others say max at 14 miles at MP? Confused

From 12 weeks out,every 2ND week,I do a M.P long run.20 with 12 at m.p and so on, up to 17miles MP with 3 miles warm up at 8min pace,a few weeks out.This seems to work for me.Everything else I run around 8 min pace,including my long slow run every other week up to 23 miles.

I like that. Plenty of slow long runs. Lots of runners ignore the endurance end of things concentrating only on speed. What does the rest of your week look like? Do you change your midweek runs depending on what the long run pace will be?

El Caballo · 01-10-2017 10:11PM

El Caballo wrote: »

I'm going to have go. At the training anyway and hopefully end up in shape to run on the right side of 3 hours. I've no delusions about it working perfectly as the time frame is short and I'm coming from a weak base so running a good marathon is the priority whether that's under 3 or over 3 and is something that I'll consider as the race gets closer. But I have to admit that nothing gets me motivated like a 2:xx marathon right now so if I have to live in dreamland of achieving that over the next few months to get me out the door everyday to train, I'll happily do it whether I can or can't:pac:

My mileage peak is probably going to be a lot higher than I've ever had going into a marathon before but overall, the training is going to be pretty simple and a case of get out the door and get it done. Racing schedule is also going to be light with a few races coming up soon just to gauge my fitness levels and then a break before hitting my buildup races in late August/September. Something like this:

Waterford Viking Half(June 24th)
Coillte 10k(July 5th)
Curraghchase 10k(August 20th)
Charleville Half(September 17th)

PB's:

1500m: 5:01(2015)
3000m: 10:45(2014)
5k: 18:34(2013)
10k: 39:46(2014)
10m: 65:34(2014)
Half: 1:26:26(2013)
Marathon: 3:15:29(2013)

As is clear from above, endurance is my biggest hurdle in attacking a sub-3 which is why I'm foregoing a racing heavy schedule like I normally would to get more focus on my long runs and weekly mileage. My schedule will build up to 6 or 7 days a week running and hopefully that will get me in the shape I need to be, whether it does is another question as time is probably not on my side coming from the level of fitness I'm at right now although I should get a better grasp after the half next weekend.

Just thought I'd give an update on this while I'm here and only a week out from the taper and inevitable madness so now's is probably to best time to write this down. The half in Waterford went decently enough although I felt terrible pretty much from the get go, Managed to finish in 1:33:0x to run my fastest half since this race 3 years previous which was a decent starting point but also a reality check in that 7 min/miles felt really quick at this stage,"How the hell was I going to run faster for double the distance?" was an overwhelming thought during the race.

I quickly moved on to the pancake flat Coillte 10k two weeks later and was finally starting to feel a bit better about running m and the result was much improved, ran 41:15 with a big negative split on the way home to a result I was delighted with as it was my fastest in 2 and a half years and I was starting to make some good progress back. The end of July/start of August proved to be a bit of a disaster as I missed the bones of 3 weeks with a chest infection I couldn't shake which put a big dent in my confidence of hitting a sub-3 or even a PB as I seriously considered just not running a marathon at all. Said I'd give Curraghchase a shot anyway a week later just to see where I was fitness wise. A tough little course but I managed to run 41:0x to top my time from Dundrum a month earlier on a much more challenging course which was really encouraging to say the least.

Over the next month, I got a decent spell of training together in the lead up to Charleville but was still unsure of where I was fitness wise going into the race. Decided to go with the flow and take a chance on the pace which rewarded me a time of 1:27:04 which was my fastest half in 4 years and second fastest ever. Probably left a bit out there as I faded a lot over the last 5k but I was ecstatic with the result as it signalled a return to form I thought would never come.

I didn't quite reach the volume and intensity of training I had hoped to when I posted the above quote as all my training has been pretty much base mileage with the occasional short 2-3 mile tempo so this will hurt me going into the marathon. As such, I think a sub-3 attempt would end badly for me so I've given up the ghost on that. It is what it is and I knew heading into this block of training that it was hugely ambitious of me to get a sub-3 clocking this time around. The sub-3 may be gone but this has been a hugely successful block of training for me in that it did indeed manage to get me out the door and motivated which was always the main goal. So whatever happens on Marathon day, I'll have this naval gazing post to look back on before the madness starts to kick in next week:pac:

As for the Sub-3, It's only a matter of time!:)

noelearly · 02-10-2017 12:29AM

Djoucer wrote: »

Read an article recently that suggested 18 miles mp, 4 weeks out.

https://www.runnersworld.com/the-fast-lane/how-well-can-your-quads-handle-a-beatdown/slide/1

I did 16 miles at mp recently and will probably leave it at that. Not sure my legs would handle 18 on top of the rest of marathon training.

It's great mentally though. Knowing you have 16 mp in the bag.

There are some that reckon that's the only positive from running mp pace is psychological.

I definitely wouldn't be doing 18 MP 4 weeks out, think that would just leave me flat. All minds differ I see low 2.40 Marathon runners doing 400s weekly until 3 weeks out. They think it keeps them sharp, I myself hate intervals only did the Yasso workout as a confidence booster and to check the accuracy, incidentally I averaged 2.57 for it and I actually ran 2.56.39 in Berlin last week. Majority of my runs as Itzinger will testify are done at snails pace, really felt doing 5ks and 5 milers kept me sharp throughout the summer.

RayCun · 02-10-2017 09:03AM

Doing 800s and 400s is fine but, like El Caballo, I wouldn't put much store in them as a marathon predictor. The demands are just too different.

davedanon · 02-10-2017 09:26AM

We're doing 12 miles @MP on Thursday, and I'm quailing a little at the prospect. I would baulk at 16!

squinn2912 · 02-10-2017 10:12AM

Any of you guys who do MP miles at the weekends or who alternate between long slow run and mp each week can you give a bit more insight into what way, if any, you adapt the week prior to and after those faster workouts? I would sometimes try to finish the long run with a few steady miles and maybe one at MP but would fear pushing too hard during these runs.

Itziger · 02-10-2017 10:27AM

The last few comments reinforce the point that there are no set in stone rules. You really have to figure out what works for you. However, I would say that at our relatively humble level more people need time-on-feet and endurance than speed and so I would err on the side of distance in most cases. As I get nearer a marathon I would look to do a few mid/long mixed pace runs with some faster than MP in there. I also think most of us would benefit from improving LT. What key types of session and when to do them...I guess that's where the experts and the books come in handy. 400 metre reps might be good for confidence and/or if your name is Kipchoge.

Krusty_Clown · 02-10-2017 10:46AM

Schedule a 30K (18.6-mile) run at close to marathon pace about four weeks before a marathon, or else do an extended warmup before a half marathon (or an extended cooldown after, if the logistics are easier).

The article doesn't suggest 30k@MP, it suggests 'close to MP' and there's potentially a substantial difference between the two. Unfortunately, it's a bit of a bull****ty article, that doesn't deal with specifics. What is 'close'? If close were MP + 5% then that's a pretty common session, and would be well worth including in one's final build-up. For example:
for a sub-3 marathon pace of 06:48/mile (allowing for usual GPS anomolies):
MP+ 5% = 07:08/mile
MP +10% = 07:29/mile
Both should be pretty achievable from a final build-up perspective and would be of significant value.

Secondly, the article doesn't mention or take into account one's experience or suitability for your target pace. For many heading for their first or second marathon, marathon pace tends to be an arbitrary time figure based on a specific time-slice - for example sub 4, sub 3:30, sub 3:00, etc. For many runners in this situation, your marathon pace may not be significantly different to your regular easy run pace. In these situations, 30k at MP should not only be achievable, it may be absolutely necessary.

But, if you've been through the wringer a few times, and your marathon goal is about pushing towards the limits of your capabilities, 30km at MP four weeks out may be counterproductive as the chances of success are pretty slim. Risk of injury or failure are pretty high. But again, that's not what this article is suggesting. I'd be wary of taking very generic advice from a Runner's World article and applying it to one's own training (particularly when the potential to misinterpret the advice can be costly.

angelzoo · 02-10-2017 11:05AM

Cheers for all the feedback. This thread is a wealth of knowledge.

Djoucer · 02-10-2017 11:14AM

Nice one KC! Appreciate the input.

squinn2912 · 02-10-2017 11:38AM

angelzoo wrote: »

Cheers for all the feedback. This thread is a wealth of knowledge.

That's a super reflection and way to frame the entire conversation we're having. I think the best thing is to take all advice into consideration and then make your own plan, conscious of avoiding injury and burn out, and stick to it as best you can.

kerrylad1 · 02-10-2017 02:51PM

squinn2912 wrote: »

I like that. Plenty of slow long runs. Lots of runners ignore the endurance end of things concentrating only on speed. What does the rest of your week look like? Do you change your midweek runs depending on what the long run pace will be?

I mite do a 10 K timetrial,midweek,when I know the long run that weekend is just Gona be slow and easy,I just checked my "paddy power"running diary there, and in the build up to Limerick marathon,I only did 1 10K timetrial,8 weeks out.I've written under it,I hated this,nearly killed me.Thats probably why I didn't do more.I also try to bring the last 2 miles of the long MP runs down to 6:15/6:20 pace.A mate of my dad's who did sub 3,s for fun in the early 80,s told me to do this.Every other run I do is at 8min pace.

davedanon · 02-10-2017 03:24PM

kerrylad1 wrote: »

I mite do a 10 K timetrial,midweek,when I know the long run that weekend is just Gona be slow and easy,I just checked my "paddy power"running diary there, and in the build up to Limerick marathon,I only did 1 10K timetrial,8 weeks out.I've written under it,I hated this,nearly killed me.Thats probably why I didn't do more.I also try to bring the last 2 miles of the long MP runs down to 6:15/6:20 pace.A mate of my dad's who did sub 3,s for fun in the early 80,s told me to do this.Every other run I do is at 8min pace.

Which is how much off MP?

The Sub 3 Support Thread

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