Swashbuckler wrote: » squinn2912 wrote: » Consensus seems to be that pacers aren't much help then! I have a question to throw out. My usual training week is made of 5 runs 1 - easy and short (7.50 p/m) 2 - up to 10 miles tempo 20-25 seconds quicker than MP (6.25 p/m) 3 - easy and short (7.50 p/m) 4 - mile intervals 60 seconds quicker than MP (5.50 p/m) 5 - long run about 60-80 seconds slower than MP (7.40 - 8.10 p/m) Am I running the tempo run too fast? I'm pretty happy with the other parts of my week and usually do somewhere between 40-55 miles per week. Any other opinions or advice? I'm just back after injury so I'm slowly building up my fitness base and looking at long term goals. The Tempo run is one that confuses me a bit too but the general consensus from what I've read is a Tempo run should be run somewhere near 10mile/half marathon pace. Given that your marathon pace is 7m/mile I'd imagine a tempo of 6:25 is pretty good. Some more experienced runners might have a different view but I thought as long as it feels "comfortably hard" then you're in the right region. Are all ten miles at that pace or do you build to it gradually?
squinn2912 wrote: » Consensus seems to be that pacers aren't much help then! I have a question to throw out. My usual training week is made of 5 runs 1 - easy and short (7.50 p/m) 2 - up to 10 miles tempo 20-25 seconds quicker than MP (6.25 p/m) 3 - easy and short (7.50 p/m) 4 - mile intervals 60 seconds quicker than MP (5.50 p/m) 5 - long run about 60-80 seconds slower than MP (7.40 - 8.10 p/m) Am I running the tempo run too fast? I'm pretty happy with the other parts of my week and usually do somewhere between 40-55 miles per week. Any other opinions or advice? I'm just back after injury so I'm slowly building up my fitness base and looking at long term goals.
squinn2912 wrote: » Thanks for the feedback. All 10 would be fairly even. First 2 could be as fast as 6.15s then 4-5 hanging in there and a strong finishing 2-3 miles. It's an out and back, fairly flat route so that might explain things with headwind usually on the way out. I know lots of the guys run 200s and 400s but I almost never do. 800 and 1600 which are killer but I think stand to you better.
Swashbuckler wrote: » squinn2912 wrote: » Thanks for the feedback. All 10 would be fairly even. First 2 could be as fast as 6.15s then 4-5 hanging in there and a strong finishing 2-3 miles. It's an out and back, fairly flat route so that might explain things with headwind usually on the way out. I know lots of the guys run 200s and 400s but I almost never do. 800 and 1600 which are killer but I think stand to you better. That doesn't sound like what I'd consider a true Tempo run. It should start at easy pace, build to tempo pace and then back to easy pace again. I'd be interested to hear the opinions of others on here. What you're doing sounds like a tough tough run. "Hanging in there" implies you're almost racing the Tempo session.
RayCun wrote: » squinn2912 wrote: » Consensus seems to be that pacers aren't much help then! I have a question to throw out. My usual training week is made of 5 runs 1 - easy and short (7.50 p/m) 2 - up to 10 miles tempo 20-25 seconds quicker than MP (6.25 p/m) 3 - easy and short (7.50 p/m) 4 - mile intervals 60 seconds quicker than MP (5.50 p/m) 5 - long run about 60-80 seconds slower than MP (7.40 - 8.10 p/m) Am I running the tempo run too fast? I'm pretty happy with the other parts of my week and usually do somewhere between 40-55 miles per week. Any other opinions or advice? I'm just back after injury so I'm slowly building up my fitness base and looking at long term goals. I think too much of your week is made up of fast running, you should be running more of those 7:50 p/m runs, and running longer on them. And your long run is a bit slow, if your MP is 6:50 then your long runs should be 7:40 to 7:50. The tempo might be a bit fast, 15-20 seconds faster than MP would be fine, but the other things are a higher priority.
squinn2912 wrote: » Yea I would say it is almost at race pace maybe 90%. I've always considered tempo to be all at one pace is what you're talking about more like a progression run? I've had the belief that I'm benefitting at the latter stages of the marathon because of the fact that I'm used to running hard when tired during the tempo runs. So would you drop say the interval session in favour of getting some miles in? A lot of people seem to have great faith in getting out twice a day, all reasonably slow but I've never tried that.
squinn2912 wrote: » Ach yea that's it. I think the most important thing about training is to believe in it yourself from the off. If it gives you a mental edge and isnt injury threatening then I think go for it. My half marathon times are around 1:24-1:25 and 10k is 37 something. I don't often work towards the shorter stuff even though I threaten to every year! Those are all in the middle of marathon training so there should be a wee bit more in them. Yea that's something I would do. I tend to run 16 miles with a friend that could be much slower - 8:15s maybe and then the final 4-6 at 7:20s with maybe one on sub3 pace. Sometimes I just get the miles in without concerning myself too much what the pace is. I like to do one long run that lasts longer than 3 hours so need to go a bit slower to achieve that.
angelzoo wrote: » Just wondering what's the max miles at marathon pace that people recommend? I've read conflicting views. Some say up to 18 miles, others say max at 14 miles at MP? Confused
Itziger wrote: » 18 sounds very, very tough. I know of people doing 16 on one or two occasions. One lad today was hoping to do Cork Cobh (15 miles) at MP pace. That sounds more or less perfect to me. An alternative that I and others have done is to break the miles into reps but not with a big generous rest period between. The rather successful Krusty speaks of 3x5 miles with 800mts Steady between, iirc.
Itziger wrote: » On the question of Yasso 800s. They evidently worked for Noel in Berlin prep!!! Can't say I'm a great fan of any reps less than a mile for marathon training myself. Djoucer, psychological benefit is very important in itself but surely MP stuff is also getting the legs used to what they need to do on the day.
Djoucer wrote: » Read an article recently that suggested 18 miles mp, 4 weeks out.https://www.runnersworld.com/the-fast-lane/how-well-can-your-quads-handle-a-beatdown/slide/1 I did 16 miles at mp recently and will probably leave it at that. Not sure my legs would handle 18 on top of the rest of marathon training. It's great mentally though. Knowing you have 16 mp in the bag. There are some that reckon that's the only positive from running mp pace is psychological.
kerrylad1 wrote: » angelzoo wrote: » Just wondering what's the max miles at marathon pace that people recommend? I've read conflicting views. Some say up to 18 miles, others say max at 14 miles at MP? Confused From 12 weeks out,every 2ND week,I do a M.P long run.20 with 12 at m.p and so on, up to 17miles MP with 3 miles warm up at 8min pace,a few weeks out.This seems to work for me.Everything else I run around 8 min pace,including my long slow run every other week up to 23 miles.
El Caballo wrote: » I'm going to have go. At the training anyway and hopefully end up in shape to run on the right side of 3 hours. I've no delusions about it working perfectly as the time frame is short and I'm coming from a weak base so running a good marathon is the priority whether that's under 3 or over 3 and is something that I'll consider as the race gets closer. But I have to admit that nothing gets me motivated like a 2:xx marathon right now so if I have to live in dreamland of achieving that over the next few months to get me out the door everyday to train, I'll happily do it whether I can or can't:pac: My mileage peak is probably going to be a lot higher than I've ever had going into a marathon before but overall, the training is going to be pretty simple and a case of get out the door and get it done. Racing schedule is also going to be light with a few races coming up soon just to gauge my fitness levels and then a break before hitting my buildup races in late August/September. Something like this: Waterford Viking Half(June 24th) Coillte 10k(July 5th) Curraghchase 10k(August 20th) Charleville Half(September 17th) PB's: 1500m: 5:01(2015) 3000m: 10:45(2014) 5k: 18:34(2013) 10k: 39:46(2014) 10m: 65:34(2014) Half: 1:26:26(2013) Marathon: 3:15:29(2013) As is clear from above, endurance is my biggest hurdle in attacking a sub-3 which is why I'm foregoing a racing heavy schedule like I normally would to get more focus on my long runs and weekly mileage. My schedule will build up to 6 or 7 days a week running and hopefully that will get me in the shape I need to be, whether it does is another question as time is probably not on my side coming from the level of fitness I'm at right now although I should get a better grasp after the half next weekend.
Schedule a 30K (18.6-mile) run at close to marathon pace about four weeks before a marathon, or else do an extended warmup before a half marathon (or an extended cooldown after, if the logistics are easier).
angelzoo wrote: » Cheers for all the feedback. This thread is a wealth of knowledge.
squinn2912 wrote: » I like that. Plenty of slow long runs. Lots of runners ignore the endurance end of things concentrating only on speed. What does the rest of your week look like? Do you change your midweek runs depending on what the long run pace will be?
kerrylad1 wrote: » I mite do a 10 K timetrial,midweek,when I know the long run that weekend is just Gona be slow and easy,I just checked my "paddy power"running diary there, and in the build up to Limerick marathon,I only did 1 10K timetrial,8 weeks out.I've written under it,I hated this,nearly killed me.Thats probably why I didn't do more.I also try to bring the last 2 miles of the long MP runs down to 6:15/6:20 pace.A mate of my dad's who did sub 3,s for fun in the early 80,s told me to do this.Every other run I do is at 8min pace.
