2017 Football All Stars

Paddy McBrearty and fourteen others.

blanch152 wrote: »

I suspect most would like to see this team


Clarke (Mayo)
Higgins (Mayo)
Keegan (Mayo)
Barrett (Mayo)
Boyle (Mayo)
McCann (Tyrone)
Murphy (Kerry)
Cavanagh (Tyrone)
Feely (Kildare)
O'Shea (Mayo)
Moran (Mayo)
Harte (Tyrone)
Geaney (Kerry)
Clarke (Armagh)
McBrearty (Donegal)

7 Mayo, 2 Kerry, 3 Tyrone, 1 each for Armagh, Kildare and Donegal.

Seems like a fair reflection of the year all right. Would have had that Carlow fella who showed the Dubs how to play football in there myself, but you can't have everything.

Due to his proximity to Dublin location wise, I want Kildares Kevin Feely removed.

Always_Running wrote: »

According to the odds the All stars will be

S Cluxton
K Higgins
C Barrett
M Fitzsimons
C Boyle
C O'Sullivan
J McCaffrey
J McCarthy
T Parsons
K McLoughlin
A O Shea
C Kilkenny
C O'Callaghan
P Geaney
A Moran

7 Mayo
7 Dublin
1 Kerry


I think Tyrone will win one so maybe C Cavanagh in for Parsons

Mannion has to be in there for me. Geaney is a very good player but subject to a fair bit of hype... I think he scored 0-5 from play over the 2 games vs Mayo.

I know he won't get one, but Fintan Kelly surely set a record for most goals scored from a defender in one season? Deserves it alone for that. Kevin Feely too was the outstanding midfielder of the Leinster championship and would rank just behind James Mc and Parsons for me.

My selection:

Cluxton

Kelly (won't get it though so Fitzsimons)
O'Sullivan
Higgins

Boyle
Barrett
McCaffrey

McCarthy
Parsons

Kilkenny
O'Shea
O'Callaghan

Mannion
Moran
Geaney

7 Dubs (well 8 including Fitz)
6 Mayo
1 Kerry

1 Monaghan (if Kelly gets it)

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But what did McBrearty do in the 2017 Championship get a nomination over Carlow's Paul Broderick ?

Both players did not have an impact on the outcome of championship but it could be said that Carlow's year was above expectations where as Donegal's was below.

Now I did not see any of Donegal's or Carlow's games this year so I'll have to go on stats and from that Broderick scored 1-30 in total, McBrearty 1-26.

This is the problem with the All Stars, they go to the players from the last four and a few nominations go to well known players from other teams

A lot more people know who McBrearty is, feck all have heard about Broderick.

You could say the same for Brodrick. At the end of the day Carlow only beat other Div 4 teams, with Wexford being the only surprise. What odds would you have got for them to draw both Letrim and London?

Goalkeeper: Stephen Cluxton

Full Backs: Keith Higgins, Cian O Sullivan, Michael Fitzsimons

Half Backs: Jack McCaffrey, Chris Barrett, Colm Boyle

Midfield: Tom Parsons, James McCarthy

Half Forwards: Ciaran Kilkenny, Con O Callaghan, Aidan O Shea

Full Forwards: Paul Mannion, Paul Geaney, Andy Moran

Total:
7 Dublin
7 Mayo
1 Kerry

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

You wont be far away there. Although McLoughlin and Doherty had a year as good as most of the selected forwards they will probably lose out to the old all star quotas rule. Could see them putting McCarthy to half back in place of o'sullivan and giving Cavanagh the nod

Yeah I wasn't sure if that was possible or not given that Cavanagh and McCarthy were nominated for a midfield position, although there's plenty of precedent with players slotted in to the team out of position. If anything, Cavanagh would be moved to the backs in place of COS given he didn't really play midfield as such.

Stoner wrote: »

It was interesting to see how the Carlow manager was just looking for a nomination, not necessarily an award.

Made me realize that the awards are very important not just the winners but to a lesser extent the nomination is an award itself.

I was thinking that per position they could consider a mandatory nomination for this type of position, I don't know the parameters of it , but players are overlooked continuously and it would be good to force one nomination per position that required the organisers to review and recognise the contribution of players during the earlier stages of the competition.

That S Murphy lad had a great season

Of course - everyone is overlooked except the players that are selected -

For example - why are two kildare players picked when they didnt win a provincial championship or even get to the QFs.

Anyone can score a brilliant goal on a given day against weak opposition.

At an individual level - the one guy I would point to is Conor McManus - I watched Monaghan a few times this year; on every occasion he was double marked including by Dublin but he still came out of it third top scorer in the championship. Plus, Monaghan reached the quarterfinal and in reality ran Dublin closer than any team other than Mayo this year; albeit still not particularly close.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

You wont be far away there. Although McLoughlin and Doherty had a year as good as most of the selected forwards they will probably lose out to the old all star quotas rule. Could see them putting McCarthy to half back in place of o'sullivan and giving Cavanagh the nod

Left out Jason Doherty . I think Kilkenny was found out in the final when Keenan did a number on him .

homewardbound11 wrote: »

Left out Jason Doherty . I think Kilkenny was found out in the final when Keenan did a number on him .

People often give out about players having a huge final and then getting an all star. What about the opposite, players who've made a huge contribution to a team throughout the season but have a quiet final.

I don't think anyone could argue against the importance Kilkenny has played in Dublins successes over the past two seasons. One quiet game and he's thrown out all of a sudden.

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I just cant agree with giving Mayo forwards 2/3 All Stars as most of these are being given on the back of playing well against a poor Kerry backline. The idea of 7 each for the 2 finalists is ludicrous- maybe 6/7 for Dublin 4/5 for Mayo, 1 for Kerry and 2/3 others.

Mayo were beaten once, drew twice and got out of jail against Derry- so I just cant go along with them getting 7 All Stars- if they deserved that many then they'd have breezed to the final (like the eventual winners did).

And dublin got out of jail against mayo. You can spin into a negative too if you want to.
The thing is, surely that is punishing the individual because of how the team goes. Isnt that another way of saying well Dublin or whoever went well therefore they have to get loads of allstars, which is exactly what people have taken issue with over the years. It is an individual award. I just dont see how playing in tight games should count against a guy as regards individual performances. It is like saying a guy scoring 20 goals for say newcastle utd, isnt as good as a guy scoring 20 for chelsea, because newcastle lost more games than chelsea... I couldnt agree with that logic. If anything the opposite is true.

Same As wrote: »

People often give out about players having a huge final and then getting an all star. What about the opposite, players who've made a huge contribution to a team throughout the season but have a quiet final.

I don't think anyone could argue against the importance Kilkenny has played in Dublins successes over the past two seasons. One quiet game and he's thrown out all of a sudden.

Well yes and no. The fact that the final was dublin's only test all year has to be factored in too. You can argue that in the big games he was nowhere to be seen - something that has been aimed at someone like Jason Doherty in the past. Furthermore, guys like mcloughlin made big impressions all year, and did so again in the final, so has arguably has a superior claim. And finally, being important to a set of tactics a team employ doesnt necessarily mean you deserve an award for high level performances. For example is COC is important for mayo, he didnt have a good year though, record breaking scoring total or not.

Stoner wrote: »

Beaten twice, same last year doesn't seem to matter. Thought AOS was decent against Derry though, although Derry wouldn't be considered a test for Dublin by the logic of some.

AOS played one terrible and one great game against Kerry, while operating between 3 and 8.
He didn't score in the final again and was bunched again at 55 minutes
Rock scores four from play in the final this year and the winning free.

Yet AOS is being put forward for an all-star in a forward position.

Very selective stuff here. AOS was being touted for poty ahead of the semi final. He had put in numerous performances where he was in the running for motm up to that point. He was played in a position that is alien to him in the first semi, on the best ff in the game. He lost about 5 balls. The media made a lot of this (how many balls did Fitzsimons lose in the final for example?) He then came back and was excellent in the replay and again in the final. He has excelled at 11, at mf and even at 3 in the replay. Nailed on all star.

What makes it worse is the double standards. Let's apply a similar critique of cluxton shall we? He made one save and had one good long kickout in the run up to the final, that is it. He was the worst player on the pitch for the first half of the final, and spent the second half kicking 10 yards out of fear of going any longer. He made one good save. Clarke made more good saves in 10 seconds against Kerry than cluxton did all year. He made less bad kickouts all year than cluxton did in the first half of the final. Yet cluxton is touted as not only an all star but poty. At least oshea had a few very strong performances under his belt. If you think AOS shouldn't get one, then Id imagine you are beside yourself with the cluxton situation?

Next up Kilkenny. Picks up soft ball in his defence, which outnumber the opposition forwards, and passes it sideways up to the final. The first test he gets, he is told to go into corner forward out of the way because his man is being too influential. Even from here, his man outplays and outscores him. He leaves the field in disgrace. All star?

Stoner wrote: »

The Tyrone team that Dublin defeated was the same team Mayo just about won against last year, but Tyrone, a top 4 side are not considered a test now for one simple reason, Dublin beat them well, yet that's not to be counted as players playing well.

I have to say that some Mayo supporters have been unjustly using POTY and the All Stars as consolation prizes for a few years now. It's bad form..

These teams are good if Mayo beat them but not a test when Dublin beat them.

Tyrone were awful on the day. They completely flopped, probably the worst flop Ive ever seen in a semi final stage. Some of their guys are praising Dublin afterwards because it is easier than accepting the harsher reality. As you say, they got close to mayo last year, and Mayo have been as close as you can get to being Dublin's equal since, so surely tyrone getting a hiding is down to tyrone themselves as much as anything else? The reality is Tyrone rely heavily on a system. Dublin countered the system, tyrone had no answers after the system was compromised.

Re using poty and all stars, sorry but mayo players deserve many of these awards. There is nothing wrong with pointing that out. You seem at pains to knock them, because you don't want it suggested that anyone could be better than a Dublin player, which is a bit sad.

Stoner wrote: »

Mayo had all the extra games because they lost and drew games against poor opposition, yet they want 3 or 4 forwards as all starts including a lads who played full back

Extra games, that as of up to now have generally been classed as a weakness rather than a strength. Extra games are what you make of them, just like less games. Both can be an advantage or a weakness, it all depends on the team and how they react to it.
Considering Dublin had a bit more in the tank down the home straight Id suggest that Dublin playing less games was in fact the telling factor in the game.

Your issue is you don't see mayo as your equal, that is why you keep looking for reasons as to why they were able to match you, rather than why you managed to pull away from them at the right time.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Very selective stuff here. AOS was being touted for poty ahead of the semi final. He had put in numerous performances where he was in the running for motm up to that point. He was played in a position that is alien to him in the first semi, on the best ff in the game. He lost about 5 balls. The media made a lot of this (how many balls did Fitzsimons lose in the final for example?) He then came back and was excellent in the replay and again in the final. He has excelled at 11, at mf and even at 3 in the replay. Nailed on all star.

What makes it worse is the double standards. Let's apply a similar critique of cluxton shall we? He made one save and had one good long kickout in the run up to the final, that is it. He was the worst player on the pitch for the first half of the final, and spent the second half kicking 10 yards out of fear of going any longer. He made one good save. Clarke made more good saves in 10 seconds against Kerry than cluxton did all year. He made less bad kickouts all year than cluxton did in the first half of the final. Yet cluxton is touted as not only an all star but poty. At least oshea had a few very strong performances under his belt. If you think AOS shouldn't get one, then Id imagine you are beside yourself with the cluxton situation?

Next up Kilkenny. Picks up soft ball in his defence, which outnumber the opposition forwards, and passes it sideways up to the final. The first test he gets, he is told to go into corner forward out of the way because his man is being too influential. Even from here, his man outplays and outscores him. All star?




Tyrone were awful on the day. They completely flopped, probably the worst flop Ive ever seen in a semi final stage. Some of their guys are praising Dublin afterwards because it is easier than accepting the harsher reality. As you say, they got close to mayo last year, and Mayo have been as close as you can get to being Dublin's equal since, so surely tyrone getting a hiding is down to tyrone themselves as much as anything else? The reality is Tyrone rely heavily on a system. Dublin countered the system, tyrone had no answers after the system was compromised.

Re using poty and all stars, sorry but mayo players deserve many of these awards. There is nothing wrong with pointing that out. You seem at pains to knock them, because you don't want it suggested that anyone could be better than a Dublin player, which is a bit sad.




Extra games, that as of up to now have generally been classed as a weakness rather than a strength. Extra games are what you make of them, just like less games. Both can be an advantage or a weakness, it all depends on the team and how they react to it.
Considering Dublin had a bit more in the tank down the home straight Id suggest that Dublin playing less games was in fact the telling factor in the game.

Your issue is you don't see mayo as your equal, that is why you keep looking for reasons as to why they were able to match you, rather than why you managed to pull away from them at the right time.

I've already picked your All-Star team for you. Here it is again, just to help. Only two Mayo forwards though, maybe should have picked O'Connor and Doherty instead of Geaney and Harte. Could probably have squeezed McLoughlin in if I had the balls not to select Clarke. That would make 10 Mayo All-Stars, a true reflection of the genius of the team.

blanch152 wrote: »

I suspect most would like to see this team


Clarke (Mayo)
Higgins (Mayo)
Keegan (Mayo)
Barrett (Mayo)
Boyle (Mayo)
McCann (Tyrone)
Murphy (Kerry)
Cavanagh (Tyrone)
Feely (Kildare)
O'Shea (Mayo)
Moran (Mayo)
Harte (Tyrone)
Geaney (Kerry)
Clarke (Armagh)
McBrearty (Donegal)

7 Mayo, 2 Kerry, 3 Tyrone, 1 each for Armagh, Kildare and Donegal.

Seems like a fair reflection of the year all right. Would have had that Carlow fella who showed the Dubs how to play football in there myself, but you can't have everything.

The reasons why Dublin won the All-Ireland were all mental, O'Connor missing his free (as I predicted months ago he would), Rock nailing his free, and then finally Clarke putting his kick-out over the sideline (another prediction of mine that he would mess up). But Clarke and O'Connor can have their All-Stars as consolation.

blanch152 wrote: »

I've already picked your All-Star team for you. Here it is again, just to help. Only two Mayo forwards though, maybe should have picked O'Connor and Doherty instead of Geaney and Harte. Could probably have squeezed McLoughlin in if I had the balls not to select Clarke. That would make 10 Mayo All-Stars, a true reflection of the genius of the team.

That isn't my team.

blanch152 wrote: »

The reasons why Dublin won the All-Ireland were all mental, O'Connor missing his free (as I predicted months ago he would), Rock nailing his free, and then finally Clarke putting his kick-out over the sideline (another prediction of mine that he would mess up). But Clarke and O'Connor can have their All-Stars as consolation.

Only a fool would subscribe to that logic. If you had played the game at all, you would first off realise that there was a strong wind blowing towards the davin. You would also realise that rock actually missed 3 kicks into that goals in the first half. Fan boys will only remember the last two kicks in the game.
Similar with Clarke and cluxton, on kickouts, Clarke messes one up in the game, after someone acting the maggot with his tee, cluxton messed them all up kicking out from the same goals. A bit of cop on would let you realise that the wind actually played a big part in the game.
You would also realise that one kick doesn't decide an all star...

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

That isn't my team.



Only a fool would subscribe to that logic. If you had played the game at all, you would first off realise that there was a strong wind blowing towards the davin. You would also realise that rock actually missed 3 kicks into that goals in the first half. Fan boys will only remember the last two kicks in the game.
Similar with Clarke and cluxton, on kickouts, Clarke messes one up in the game, after someone acting the maggot with his tee, cluxton messed them all up kicking out from the same goals. A bit of cop on would let you realise that the wind actually played a big part in the game.
You would also realise that one kick doesn't decide an all star...

That was the second one in a row that Clarke messed up. He put the previous one down McCarthy's throat, which led to the winning point. Incidentally, if you want the difference between McCarthy and Moran for POTY, that last play is it. McCarthy was there to make the mark to win the All-Ireland, Moran wasn't.

As for the wind, from years of being in Croke Park, I am convinced that it is much more difficult to score into the Hill than the other end, which is why the Mayo wides in the first half surprised me, and why I was relaxed all through the match, knowing Dublin would come through.

cms88 wrote: »

It's easy fr him to be a ''link'' player when no one marks him, as you've pointed out when he is he does nothing. It also helps when he's left over-carry the ball more or less every time he gets it

Against both the opponents I've highlighted, he was man marked at all times. I think inter-county managers probably agree with my opinion re: his importance and tried to blot it out as best they could. Others were just myopic and set up differently, and while they may have been inferior sides, we all saw how that went for them.

Re the over-carrying, yes last season he took it a step too far (no pun intended), but it was far less apparent this year.

So the 45 that Rock scuffed horribly wide and the shot that he dropped well short into Clarke's arms in the first half were due to the wind?

Ok.

Billy Mays wrote: »

So the 45 that Rock scuffed horribly wide and the shot that he dropped well short into Clarke's arms in the first half were due to the wind?

Ok.

It was definitely a factor in his 3 first half misses, I have no doubt about that. The one that dropped short was probably just a miss-cue, but the others could have been playing on his mind at that stage.