2017 Football All Stars

Fr Tod Umptious

Here are the nominations.

PwC All-Star Football Nominations

GOALKEEPERS

Stephen Cluxton (Dublin), David Clarke (Mayo), Niall Morgan (Tyrone)

DEFENDERS

Jack McCaffrey, Cian O’Sullivan, Michael Fitzsimons, Philip McMahon, John Small, Jonny Cooper (Dublin), Keith Higgins, Lee Keegan, Chris Barrett, Colm Boyle, Brendan Harrison (Mayo), Paig Hampsey, Tiernan McCann (Tyrone), Paul Murphy, Tadhg Morley (Kerry), Conor Devanney (Roscommon), Caolan Mooney (Down), Fintan Kelly (Monaghan).

MIDFIELDERS

James McCarthy, Brian Fenton (Dublin), Tom Parsons (Mayo), Colm Cavanagh (Tyrone), Enda Smith (Roscommon), Kevin Feely (Kildare).

FORWARDS

Andy Moran, Kevin McLoughlin, Aidan O’Shea, Jason Doherty, Cillian O’Connor (Mayo), CiarKilkenny, Con O’Callaghan, Paul Mannion, Dean Rock (Dublin), Paul Geaney, Kieran Donaghy, James O’Donoghue (Kerry), Peter Harte, Niall Sludden (Tyrone), Connaire Harrison (Down), Patrick McBrearty (Donegal), Jamie Clarke (Armagh), Daniel Flynn (Kildare).

The only thing that jumps out at me is no Paddy Durkan.

Thought he would get a nomination.

Poor_old_gill

Checked the odds yesterday and was baffled that Fitzsimons was ahead of Barrett- he only had real challenge all season and didnt cover himself in glory against Mayo.

If the selection is heavily weighted towards the final, which we know it is, then Barrett should surely get one.
Kinda surprised that Higgins is ahead of Barrett too to be honest

downthemiddle

Paddy McBrearty and fourteen others.

blanch152

downthemiddle wrote: »

Paddy McBrearty and fourteen others.

I suspect most would like to see this team


Clarke (Mayo)
Higgins (Mayo)
Keegan (Mayo)
Barrett (Mayo)
Boyle (Mayo)
McCann (Tyrone)
Murphy (Kerry)
Cavanagh (Tyrone)
Feely (Kildare)
O'Shea (Mayo)
Moran (Mayo)
Harte (Tyrone)
Geaney (Kerry)
Clarke (Armagh)
McBrearty (Donegal)

7 Mayo, 2 Kerry, 3 Tyrone, 1 each for Armagh, Kildare and Donegal.

Seems like a fair reflection of the year all right. Would have had that Carlow fella who showed the Dubs how to play football in there myself, but you can't have everything.

SeanJ09

blanch152 wrote: »

I suspect most would like to see this team


Clarke (Mayo)
Higgins (Mayo)
Keegan (Mayo)
Barrett (Mayo)
Boyle (Mayo)
McCann (Tyrone)
Murphy (Kerry)
Cavanagh (Tyrone)
Feely (Kildare)
O'Shea (Mayo)
Moran (Mayo)
Harte (Tyrone)
Geaney (Kerry)
Clarke (Armagh)
McBrearty (Donegal)

7 Mayo, 2 Kerry, 3 Tyrone, 1 each for Armagh, Kildare and Donegal.

Seems like a fair reflection of the year all right. Would have had that Carlow fella who showed the Dubs how to play football in there myself, but you can't have everything.

Due to his proximity to Dublin location wise, I want Kildares Kevin Feely removed.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

I suspect most would like to see this team


Clarke (Mayo)
Higgins (Mayo)
Keegan (Mayo)
Barrett (Mayo)
Boyle (Mayo)
McCann (Tyrone)
Murphy (Kerry)
Cavanagh (Tyrone)
Feely (Kildare)
O'Shea (Mayo)
Moran (Mayo)
Harte (Tyrone)
Geaney (Kerry)
Clarke (Armagh)
McBrearty (Donegal)

7 Mayo, 2 Kerry, 3 Tyrone, 1 each for Armagh, Kildare and Donegal.

Seems like a fair reflection of the year all right. Would have had that Carlow fella who showed the Dubs how to play football in there myself, but you can't have everything.

Are you not back to school yet ? Or are you now posting during class.

Pure tashte

Will there be many differences from the Sunday Game TOTY? C Cavanagh in for Parsons maybe (even though if he is anywhere it should most likely be the half back line), Jason Doherty might get in ahead of McLoughlin, and I could see them try to get Rock in there. Maybe instead of O'Callaghan, seeing as he's a shoe in for YPOTY?

Always_Running

According to the odds the All stars will be

S Cluxton
K Higgins
C Barrett
M Fitzsimons
C Boyle
C O'Sullivan
J McCaffrey
J McCarthy
T Parsons
K McLoughlin
A O Shea
C Kilkenny
C O'Callaghan
P Geaney
A Moran

7 Mayo
7 Dublin
1 Kerry


I think Tyrone will win one so maybe C Cavanagh in for Parsons

PARlance

Always_Running wrote: »

According to the odds the All stars will be

S Cluxton
K Higgins
C Barrett
M Fitzsimons
C Boyle
C O'Sullivan
J McCaffrey
J McCarthy
T Parsons
K McLoughlin
A O Shea
C Kilkenny
C O'Callaghan
P Geaney
A Moran

7 Mayo
7 Dublin
1 Kerry


I think Tyrone will win one so maybe C Cavanagh in for Parsons

Mannion has to be in there for me. Geaney is a very good player but subject to a fair bit of hype... I think he scored 0-5 from play over the 2 games vs Mayo.

Stoner

Always_Running wrote:

According to the odds the All stars will be

Cooper for McCaffery imo

castletownman

I know he won't get one, but Fintan Kelly surely set a record for most goals scored from a defender in one season? Deserves it alone for that. Kevin Feely too was the outstanding midfielder of the Leinster championship and would rank just behind James Mc and Parsons for me.

My selection:

Cluxton

Kelly (won't get it though so Fitzsimons)
O'Sullivan
Higgins

Boyle
Barrett
McCaffrey

McCarthy
Parsons

Kilkenny
O'Shea
O'Callaghan

Mannion
Moran
Geaney

7 Dubs (well 8 including Fitz)
6 Mayo
1 Kerry

1 Monaghan (if Kelly gets it)

cms88

Surprised the ''story of the championship'' \\\\\\\\carlow don;t have anyone

corny

Cluxton

Cooper
Barrett
Higgins

Boyle
COS
McCaffrey

McCarthy
Cavanagh

Murphy
O'Callaghan
AOS

Moran
Mannion
Rock

Only having one token player from Kerry/Tyrone so Murphy>Geaney for me.

seligehgit

Cluxton
Cooper
Barrett
Higgins
Boyle
O Sullivan
McCaffrey
McCarthy
Parsons
McLoughlin
O Shea
O Callaghan
Mannion
Geaney
Moran

Parsons may lose out to Kavanagh,Kilkenny loses out as a result of his relative no show in the final.Geaney gets the nod as the sole Kerry man over Murphy.Rock has had a fantastic season.

Fr Tod Umptious

cms88 wrote: »

Surprised the ''story of the championship'' \\\\\\\\carlow don;t have anyone

Point we as made by the Carlow manager that Paddy McBrearty does not deserve a nomination any more than some Carlow players.

And he's right.

dog_pig

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Point we as made by the Carlow manager that Paddy McBrearty does not deserve a nomination any more than some Carlow players.

And he's right.

Na he's not

Fr Tod Umptious

dog_pig wrote: »

Na he's not

But what did McBrearty do in the 2017 Championship get a nomination over Carlow's Paul Broderick ?

Both players did not have an impact on the outcome of championship but it could be said that Carlow's year was above expectations where as Donegal's was below.

Now I did not see any of Donegal's or Carlow's games this year so I'll have to go on stats and from that Broderick scored 1-30 in total, McBrearty 1-26.

This is the problem with the All Stars, they go to the players from the last four and a few nominations go to well known players from other teams

A lot more people know who McBrearty is, feck all have heard about Broderick.

Syferus

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But what did McBrearty do in the 2017 Championship get a nomination over Carlow's Paul Broderick ?

Both players did not have an impact on the outcome of championship but it could be said that Carlow's year was above expectations where as Donegal's was below.

Now I did not see any of Donegal's or Carlow's games this year so I'll have to go on stats and from that Broderick scored 1-30 in total, McBrearty 1-26.

This is the problem with the All Stars, they go to the players from the last four and a few nominations go to well known players from other teams

A lot more people know who McBrearty is, feck all have heard about Broderick.

Let me stop you right there.

Fr Tod Umptious

Syferus wrote: »

Let me stop you right there.

Did you ?

Can you tell me how one player from one team that did not make a provincial final or the All Ireland series gets a nomination over another ?

Fell free to add other names to the list too.

Stoner

Fr Tod Umptious wrote:

Can you tell me how one player from one team that did not make a provincial final or the All Ireland series gets a nomination over another ?

It was interesting to see how the Carlow manager was just looking for a nomination, not necessarily an award.

Made me realize that the awards are very important not just the winners but to a lesser extent the nomination is an award itself.

I was thinking that per position they could consider a mandatory nomination for this type of position, I don't know the parameters of it , but players are overlooked continuously and it would be good to force one nomination per position that required the organisers to review and recognise the contribution of players during the earlier stages of the competition.

That S Murphy lad had a great season

CurryFlavoured

Cluxton
Fitzsimons
COS
Higgins
Boyle
Barrett
McCaffrey
McCarthy
Cavanagh
McLoughlin
O'Callaghan
Doherty*
Rock
Geaney
Moran

*The only one I'm uncertain of, you could pick any of AOS, Kilkenny, Doherty or maybe others. I don't think anyone has stood out. AOS contribution has been overrated imo, particularly in the final. Kilkenny had a poor final and hasn't been standout throughout the season. Doherty is a workhorse who is very consistent and had a very good final so I went with him. There's probably another half forward I'm not thinking of who could slip in ahead of these 3 though.

Rest of the team was pretty easy for me. Rock I think deserves it, not a huge fan of his but he's had a good season and a great final. Geaney imo was the standout inside forward this season, aside from Andy Moran.

billyhead

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

Cluxton
Fitzsimons
COS
Higgins
Boyle
Barrett
McCaffrey
McCarthy
Cavanagh
McLoughlin
O'Callaghan
Doherty*
Rock
Geaney
Moran

*The only one I'm uncertain of, you could pick any of AOS, Kilkenny, Doherty or maybe others. I don't think anyone has stood out. AOS contribution has been overrated imo, particularly in the final. Kilkenny had a poor final and hasn't been standout throughout the season. Doherty is a workhorse who is very consistent and had a very good final so I went with him. There's probably another half forward I'm not thinking of who could slip in ahead of these 3 though.

Rest of the team was pretty easy for me. Rock I think deserves it, not a huge fan of his but he's had a good season and a great final. Geaney imo was the standout inside forward this season, aside from Andy Moran.

I would have Mannion instead of Rock and AOS instead of Doherty. I wouldn't be sure on COS getting an All Star either

cms88

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But what did McBrearty do in the 2017 Championship get a nomination over Carlow's Paul Broderick ?

Both players did not have an impact on the outcome of championship but it could be said that Carlow's year was above expectations where as Donegal's was below.

Now I did not see any of Donegal's or Carlow's games this year so I'll have to go on stats and from that Broderick scored 1-30 in total, McBrearty 1-26.

This is the problem with the All Stars, they go to the players from the last four and a few nominations go to well known players from other teams

A lot more people know who McBrearty is, feck all have heard about Broderick.

You could say the same for Brodrick. At the end of the day Carlow only beat other Div 4 teams, with Wexford being the only surprise. What odds would you have got for them to draw both Letrim and London?

blowitupref

cms88 wrote: »

You could say the same for Brodrick. At the end of the day Carlow only beat other Div 4 teams, with Wexford being the only surprise. What odds would you have got for them to draw both Letrim and London?

Brodrick played very well in the defeats against two Div one teams Monaghan and Dublin. McBrearty in fairness to him was very good against Galway even though his team received a trimming that day.

Same As

Goalkeeper: Stephen Cluxton

Full Backs: Keith Higgins, Cian O Sullivan, Michael Fitzsimons

Half Backs: Jack McCaffrey, Chris Barrett, Colm Boyle

Midfield: Tom Parsons, James McCarthy

Half Forwards: Ciaran Kilkenny, Con O Callaghan, Aidan O Shea

Full Forwards: Paul Mannion, Paul Geaney, Andy Moran

Total:
7 Dublin
7 Mayo
1 Kerry

MayoAreMagic

Same As wrote: »

Goalkeeper: Stephen Cluxton

Full Backs: Keith Higgins, Cian O Sullivan, Michael Fitzsimons

Half Backs: Jack McCaffrey, Chris Barrett, Colm Boyle

Midfield: Tom Parsons, James McCarthy

Half Forwards: Ciaran Kilkenny, Con O Callaghan, Aidan O Shea

Full Forwards: Paul Mannion, Paul Geaney, Andy Moran

Total:
7 Dublin
7 Mayo
1 Kerry

You wont be far away there. Although McLoughlin and Doherty had a year as good as most of the selected forwards they will probably lose out to the old all star quotas rule. Could see them putting McCarthy to half back in place of o'sullivan and giving Cavanagh the nod

Same As

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

You wont be far away there. Although McLoughlin and Doherty had a year as good as most of the selected forwards they will probably lose out to the old all star quotas rule. Could see them putting McCarthy to half back in place of o'sullivan and giving Cavanagh the nod

Yeah I wasn't sure if that was possible or not given that Cavanagh and McCarthy were nominated for a midfield position, although there's plenty of precedent with players slotted in to the team out of position. If anything, Cavanagh would be moved to the backs in place of COS given he didn't really play midfield as such.

MayoAreMagic

Same As wrote: »

Yeah I wasn't sure if that was possible or not given that Cavanagh and McCarthy were nominated for a midfield position, although there's plenty of precedent with players slotted in to the team out of position. If anything, Cavanagh would be moved to the backs in place of COS given he didn't really play midfield as such.

I know what you are saying. But then they have selected Cian O'S at CHB in the past when he spent his season doubling up on the FF. Im not a fan of full time sweepers getting into the team myself, be it Cavanagh or whoever. It is easier to look the part when you aren't being kept honest by a direct opponent. Personally, Id like to see the gaa make a statement on this front by picking players who played the orthodox position they are being selected for and nobody else.

Tombo2001

Stoner wrote: »

It was interesting to see how the Carlow manager was just looking for a nomination, not necessarily an award.

Made me realize that the awards are very important not just the winners but to a lesser extent the nomination is an award itself.

I was thinking that per position they could consider a mandatory nomination for this type of position, I don't know the parameters of it , but players are overlooked continuously and it would be good to force one nomination per position that required the organisers to review and recognise the contribution of players during the earlier stages of the competition.

That S Murphy lad had a great season

Of course - everyone is overlooked except the players that are selected -

For example - why are two kildare players picked when they didnt win a provincial championship or even get to the QFs.

Anyone can score a brilliant goal on a given day against weak opposition.

At an individual level - the one guy I would point to is Conor McManus - I watched Monaghan a few times this year; on every occasion he was double marked including by Dublin but he still came out of it third top scorer in the championship. Plus, Monaghan reached the quarterfinal and in reality ran Dublin closer than any team other than Mayo this year; albeit still not particularly close.

Bonniedog

Murphy of Carlow put in two of the outstanding individual displays this year. He was main factor in Carlow putting it up to two of the big guns. At least deserved a nomination.

homewardbound11

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

You wont be far away there. Although McLoughlin and Doherty had a year as good as most of the selected forwards they will probably lose out to the old all star quotas rule. Could see them putting McCarthy to half back in place of o'sullivan and giving Cavanagh the nod

Left out Jason Doherty . I think Kilkenny was found out in the final when Keenan did a number on him .

Poor_old_gill

I just cant agree with giving Mayo forwards 2/3 All Stars as most of these are being given on the back of playing well against a poor Kerry backline. The idea of 7 each for the 2 finalists is ludicrous- maybe 6/7 for Dublin 4/5 for Mayo, 1 for Kerry and 2/3 others.

Mayo were beaten once, drew twice and got out of jail against Derry- so I just cant go along with them getting 7 All Stars- if they deserved that many then they'd have breezed to the final (like the eventual winners did).

Same As

homewardbound11 wrote: »

Left out Jason Doherty . I think Kilkenny was found out in the final when Keenan did a number on him .

People often give out about players having a huge final and then getting an all star. What about the opposite, players who've made a huge contribution to a team throughout the season but have a quiet final.

I don't think anyone could argue against the importance Kilkenny has played in Dublins successes over the past two seasons. One quiet game and he's thrown out all of a sudden.

Stoner

Tombo2001 wrote:

Of course - everyone is overlooked except the players that are selected -

I said continuously left out.

McManus has an all star
And the manager was only looking for a nomination not the award.

MayoAreMagic

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I just cant agree with giving Mayo forwards 2/3 All Stars as most of these are being given on the back of playing well against a poor Kerry backline. The idea of 7 each for the 2 finalists is ludicrous- maybe 6/7 for Dublin 4/5 for Mayo, 1 for Kerry and 2/3 others.

Mayo were beaten once, drew twice and got out of jail against Derry- so I just cant go along with them getting 7 All Stars- if they deserved that many then they'd have breezed to the final (like the eventual winners did).

And dublin got out of jail against mayo. You can spin into a negative too if you want to.
The thing is, surely that is punishing the individual because of how the team goes. Isnt that another way of saying well Dublin or whoever went well therefore they have to get loads of allstars, which is exactly what people have taken issue with over the years. It is an individual award. I just dont see how playing in tight games should count against a guy as regards individual performances. It is like saying a guy scoring 20 goals for say newcastle utd, isnt as good as a guy scoring 20 for chelsea, because newcastle lost more games than chelsea... I couldnt agree with that logic. If anything the opposite is true.

Same As wrote: »

People often give out about players having a huge final and then getting an all star. What about the opposite, players who've made a huge contribution to a team throughout the season but have a quiet final.

I don't think anyone could argue against the importance Kilkenny has played in Dublins successes over the past two seasons. One quiet game and he's thrown out all of a sudden.

Well yes and no. The fact that the final was dublin's only test all year has to be factored in too. You can argue that in the big games he was nowhere to be seen - something that has been aimed at someone like Jason Doherty in the past. Furthermore, guys like mcloughlin made big impressions all year, and did so again in the final, so has arguably has a superior claim. And finally, being important to a set of tactics a team employ doesnt necessarily mean you deserve an award for high level performances. For example is COC is important for mayo, he didnt have a good year though, record breaking scoring total or not.

Stoner

Poor_old_gill wrote:

Mayo were beaten once, drew twice and got out of jail against Derry- so I just cant go along with them getting 7 All Stars- if they deserved that many then they'd have breezed to the final (like the eventual winners did).

Beaten twice, same last year doesn't seem to matter. Thought AOS was decent against Derry though, although Derry wouldn't be considered a test for Dublin by the logic of some.

AOS played one terrible and one great game against Kerry, while operating between 3 and 8.
He didn't score in the final again and was bunched again at 55 minutes
Rock scores four from play in the final this year and the winning free.

Yet AOS is being put forward for an all-star in a forward position.

The Tyrone team that Dublin defeated was the same team Mayo just about won against last year, but Tyrone, a top 4 side are not considered a test now for one simple reason, Dublin beat them well, yet that's not to be counted as players playing well.

I have to say that some Mayo supporters have been unjustly using POTY and the All Stars as consolation prizes for a few years now. It's bad form.

These teams are good if Mayo beat them but not a test when Dublin beat them.

Mayo had all the extra games because they lost and drew games against poor opposition, yet they want 3 or 4 forwards as all stars including a lad who played full back

seligehgit

To say that these awards are been used as some sort of consolation prize for our failure to win the All Ireland is unfair.It is a means for some of withholding credit and downgrading the worthiness of said Mayo players to be in contention for the awards.

When we floundering in the early stages of the championship Aidan O Shea largely carried the team on his own back,Derry and Clare spring to mind.He was very good against Cork.

Lest we forget he didn't start against Sligo or Galway.

Like many others he was ineffectual against Roscommon the first day out,the second day is best ignored on the basis of dismal show by our opponents.

It was hardly Aidan's fault he was thrown into a position against Kerry he was unfamiliar with.I thought he'd a decent day out in the replay,less said about the first game the better.

Of course he ran out of gas after 55 minutes in the final but was very effective in the first half and to a lesser extent in the second half as demonstrated with that wide with really poor shot selection,it was ripe for recycling.For a man who's oft accused of turning up on All Ireland final day he turned in his best final day performance.

Andy Moran is in contention for the POTY on merit after a consistently good season and like every other counties supporters I will advocate for his candidature.There is nobody who has'nt even a tinge of bias,we're all human.It's petty to suggest it's part of a sympathy vote or consolation prize.TBF some of your county men have praised greatly his candidature.
I am not too sure who you are suggesting has stated that Dublin weren't tested by Tyrone.Dublin were exceptional on the day,Tyrone were overwhelmed in spite of being a top four side.Tyrone weren't good enough to test Dublin.Dean Rock could be thrown into the team in place of Kevin McLoughlin,Jason Doherty although only getting game time in the latter part of the championship was very good but gets no place.We're all offering opinions on our selections,tis all part of the fun of the process.
No poxy All Star or POTY award comes anywhere near to offering solace to ourselves for our failure to win Sam.To suggest otherwise is pure folly.Enjoy your three in a row,you'll care little about these awards in years to come while we're still mulling over another devastating loss.

Stoner

seligehgit wrote:

Andy Moran is in contention for the POTY on merit after a consistently good season...
..
No poxy All Star or POTY award comes anywhere near to offering solace to ourselves for our failure to win Sam.To suggest otherwise is pure folly.Enjoy your three in a row,you'll care little about these awards in years to come while we're still mulling over another devastating loss.

I've agreed with Andy Moran as POTY.

I don't agree with AOS as an all star forward.

I certainly don't agree that Mayo deserve 4 all stars in the forwards.

Again if they had 4 all star forwards they'd be champions. If AOS was an all-star forward he'd have scored even one point in the final (or any final)

I don't envy your position, that's as much as I'll say on it for genuine reasons

But talk of McLoughlan and Doherty not being all stars this year due to quota restrictions as offered is BS imo.
Mannion, Rock, O'Callaghan all out scored them in the final and they struggled against poor opposition early on and they are the games that good forward win for you IMO.

Over all I think we are more or less on the same page tbh. I don't really remember the awards anyway you are correct

I'd give Keegan an all star, pulled Mayo out of the fire in three games.

Geaney too

MayoAreMagic

Stoner wrote: »

Beaten twice, same last year doesn't seem to matter. Thought AOS was decent against Derry though, although Derry wouldn't be considered a test for Dublin by the logic of some.

AOS played one terrible and one great game against Kerry, while operating between 3 and 8.
He didn't score in the final again and was bunched again at 55 minutes
Rock scores four from play in the final this year and the winning free.

Yet AOS is being put forward for an all-star in a forward position.

Very selective stuff here. AOS was being touted for poty ahead of the semi final. He had put in numerous performances where he was in the running for motm up to that point. He was played in a position that is alien to him in the first semi, on the best ff in the game. He lost about 5 balls. The media made a lot of this (how many balls did Fitzsimons lose in the final for example?) He then came back and was excellent in the replay and again in the final. He has excelled at 11, at mf and even at 3 in the replay. Nailed on all star.

What makes it worse is the double standards. Let's apply a similar critique of cluxton shall we? He made one save and had one good long kickout in the run up to the final, that is it. He was the worst player on the pitch for the first half of the final, and spent the second half kicking 10 yards out of fear of going any longer. He made one good save. Clarke made more good saves in 10 seconds against Kerry than cluxton did all year. He made less bad kickouts all year than cluxton did in the first half of the final. Yet cluxton is touted as not only an all star but poty. At least oshea had a few very strong performances under his belt. If you think AOS shouldn't get one, then Id imagine you are beside yourself with the cluxton situation?

Next up Kilkenny. Picks up soft ball in his defence, which outnumber the opposition forwards, and passes it sideways up to the final. The first test he gets, he is told to go into corner forward out of the way because his man is being too influential. Even from here, his man outplays and outscores him. He leaves the field in disgrace. All star?

Stoner wrote: »

The Tyrone team that Dublin defeated was the same team Mayo just about won against last year, but Tyrone, a top 4 side are not considered a test now for one simple reason, Dublin beat them well, yet that's not to be counted as players playing well.

I have to say that some Mayo supporters have been unjustly using POTY and the All Stars as consolation prizes for a few years now. It's bad form..

These teams are good if Mayo beat them but not a test when Dublin beat them.

Tyrone were awful on the day. They completely flopped, probably the worst flop Ive ever seen in a semi final stage. Some of their guys are praising Dublin afterwards because it is easier than accepting the harsher reality. As you say, they got close to mayo last year, and Mayo have been as close as you can get to being Dublin's equal since, so surely tyrone getting a hiding is down to tyrone themselves as much as anything else? The reality is Tyrone rely heavily on a system. Dublin countered the system, tyrone had no answers after the system was compromised.

Re using poty and all stars, sorry but mayo players deserve many of these awards. There is nothing wrong with pointing that out. You seem at pains to knock them, because you don't want it suggested that anyone could be better than a Dublin player, which is a bit sad.

Stoner wrote: »

Mayo had all the extra games because they lost and drew games against poor opposition, yet they want 3 or 4 forwards as all starts including a lads who played full back

Extra games, that as of up to now have generally been classed as a weakness rather than a strength. Extra games are what you make of them, just like less games. Both can be an advantage or a weakness, it all depends on the team and how they react to it.
Considering Dublin had a bit more in the tank down the home straight Id suggest that Dublin playing less games was in fact the telling factor in the game.

Your issue is you don't see mayo as your equal, that is why you keep looking for reasons as to why they were able to match you, rather than why you managed to pull away from them at the right time.

MayoAreMagic

Stoner wrote: »

But talk of McLoughlan and Doherty not being all stars this year due to quota restrictions as offered is BS imo.
Mannion, Rock, O'Callaghan all out scored them in the final and they struggled against poor opposition early on and they are the games that good forward win for you IMO.

Well rock is the free taker. COC outscored him, and broke the all time scoring record. So he gets an all star too, right?
Mannion and O'Callaghan will get all stars. McLoughlin should get one ahead of Kilkenny as he has been better all year. Id say he has the most assists in the country by a mile.
If COC's free went over and rocks didn't, and mayo win with everything else being exactly the same, Doherty probably gets one. That sums up the all stars quota system.

Also, surely if you want to talk about struggling, then how can you ignore O'Callaghan against Carlow? You need to stop being so one-eyed.

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Very selective stuff here. AOS was being touted for poty ahead of the semi final. He had put in numerous performances where he was in the running for motm up to that point. He was played in a position that is alien to him in the first semi, on the best ff in the game. He lost about 5 balls. The media made a lot of this (how many balls did Fitzsimons lose in the final for example?) He then came back and was excellent in the replay and again in the final. He has excelled at 11, at mf and even at 3 in the replay. Nailed on all star.

What makes it worse is the double standards. Let's apply a similar critique of cluxton shall we? He made one save and had one good long kickout in the run up to the final, that is it. He was the worst player on the pitch for the first half of the final, and spent the second half kicking 10 yards out of fear of going any longer. He made one good save. Clarke made more good saves in 10 seconds against Kerry than cluxton did all year. He made less bad kickouts all year than cluxton did in the first half of the final. Yet cluxton is touted as not only an all star but poty. At least oshea had a few very strong performances under his belt. If you think AOS shouldn't get one, then Id imagine you are beside yourself with the cluxton situation?

Next up Kilkenny. Picks up soft ball in his defence, which outnumber the opposition forwards, and passes it sideways up to the final. The first test he gets, he is told to go into corner forward out of the way because his man is being too influential. Even from here, his man outplays and outscores him. All star?




Tyrone were awful on the day. They completely flopped, probably the worst flop Ive ever seen in a semi final stage. Some of their guys are praising Dublin afterwards because it is easier than accepting the harsher reality. As you say, they got close to mayo last year, and Mayo have been as close as you can get to being Dublin's equal since, so surely tyrone getting a hiding is down to tyrone themselves as much as anything else? The reality is Tyrone rely heavily on a system. Dublin countered the system, tyrone had no answers after the system was compromised.

Re using poty and all stars, sorry but mayo players deserve many of these awards. There is nothing wrong with pointing that out. You seem at pains to knock them, because you don't want it suggested that anyone could be better than a Dublin player, which is a bit sad.




Extra games, that as of up to now have generally been classed as a weakness rather than a strength. Extra games are what you make of them, just like less games. Both can be an advantage or a weakness, it all depends on the team and how they react to it.
Considering Dublin had a bit more in the tank down the home straight Id suggest that Dublin playing less games was in fact the telling factor in the game.

Your issue is you don't see mayo as your equal, that is why you keep looking for reasons as to why they were able to match you, rather than why you managed to pull away from them at the right time.

I've already picked your All-Star team for you. Here it is again, just to help. Only two Mayo forwards though, maybe should have picked O'Connor and Doherty instead of Geaney and Harte. Could probably have squeezed McLoughlin in if I had the balls not to select Clarke. That would make 10 Mayo All-Stars, a true reflection of the genius of the team.

blanch152 wrote: »

I suspect most would like to see this team


Clarke (Mayo)
Higgins (Mayo)
Keegan (Mayo)
Barrett (Mayo)
Boyle (Mayo)
McCann (Tyrone)
Murphy (Kerry)
Cavanagh (Tyrone)
Feely (Kildare)
O'Shea (Mayo)
Moran (Mayo)
Harte (Tyrone)
Geaney (Kerry)
Clarke (Armagh)
McBrearty (Donegal)

7 Mayo, 2 Kerry, 3 Tyrone, 1 each for Armagh, Kildare and Donegal.

Seems like a fair reflection of the year all right. Would have had that Carlow fella who showed the Dubs how to play football in there myself, but you can't have everything.

The reasons why Dublin won the All-Ireland were all mental, O'Connor missing his free (as I predicted months ago he would), Rock nailing his free, and then finally Clarke putting his kick-out over the sideline (another prediction of mine that he would mess up). But Clarke and O'Connor can have their All-Stars as consolation.

cms88

Same As wrote: »

People often give out about players having a huge final and then getting an all star. What about the opposite, players who've made a huge contribution to a team throughout the season but have a quiet final.

I don't think anyone could argue against the importance Kilkenny has played in Dublins successes over the past two seasons. One quiet game and he's thrown out all of a sudden.

If by importance you mean in terms of hand passing sideways, then yes he's been very important

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

I've already picked your All-Star team for you. Here it is again, just to help. Only two Mayo forwards though, maybe should have picked O'Connor and Doherty instead of Geaney and Harte. Could probably have squeezed McLoughlin in if I had the balls not to select Clarke. That would make 10 Mayo All-Stars, a true reflection of the genius of the team.

That isn't my team.

blanch152 wrote: »

The reasons why Dublin won the All-Ireland were all mental, O'Connor missing his free (as I predicted months ago he would), Rock nailing his free, and then finally Clarke putting his kick-out over the sideline (another prediction of mine that he would mess up). But Clarke and O'Connor can have their All-Stars as consolation.

Only a fool would subscribe to that logic. If you had played the game at all, you would first off realise that there was a strong wind blowing towards the davin. You would also realise that rock actually missed 3 kicks into that goals in the first half. Fan boys will only remember the last two kicks in the game.
Similar with Clarke and cluxton, on kickouts, Clarke messes one up in the game, after someone acting the maggot with his tee, cluxton messed them all up kicking out from the same goals. A bit of cop on would let you realise that the wind actually played a big part in the game.
You would also realise that one kick doesn't decide an all star...

Same As

cms88 wrote: »

If by importance you mean in terms of hand passing sideways, then yes he's been very important

He's the link player in every single thing they do. If you look back on any game where a team has been close to the Dubs, it has, coincidently or not, been where Kilkenny influence has been nullified. Example, Kerry Dublin league games twice this year, and also the final between Dublin and Mayo. Say what you want about him passing sideways, and I'm by no means a fan of that, but his importance and positive influence should not be ignored.

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

That isn't my team.



Only a fool would subscribe to that logic. If you had played the game at all, you would first off realise that there was a strong wind blowing towards the davin. You would also realise that rock actually missed 3 kicks into that goals in the first half. Fan boys will only remember the last two kicks in the game.
Similar with Clarke and cluxton, on kickouts, Clarke messes one up in the game, after someone acting the maggot with his tee, cluxton messed them all up kicking out from the same goals. A bit of cop on would let you realise that the wind actually played a big part in the game.
You would also realise that one kick doesn't decide an all star...

That was the second one in a row that Clarke messed up. He put the previous one down McCarthy's throat, which led to the winning point. Incidentally, if you want the difference between McCarthy and Moran for POTY, that last play is it. McCarthy was there to make the mark to win the All-Ireland, Moran wasn't.

As for the wind, from years of being in Croke Park, I am convinced that it is much more difficult to score into the Hill than the other end, which is why the Mayo wides in the first half surprised me, and why I was relaxed all through the match, knowing Dublin would come through.

cms88

Same As wrote: »

He's the link player in every single thing they do. If you look back on any game where a team has been close to the Dubs, it has, coincidently or not, been where Kilkenny influence has been nullified. Example, Kerry Dublin league games twice this year, and also the final between Dublin and Mayo. Say what you want about him passing sideways, and I'm by no means a fan of that, but his importance and positive influence should not be ignored.

It's easy fr him to be a ''link'' player when no one marks him, as you've pointed out when he is he does nothing. It also helps when he's left over-carry the ball more or less every time he gets it

Same As

cms88 wrote: »

It's easy fr him to be a ''link'' player when no one marks him, as you've pointed out when he is he does nothing. It also helps when he's left over-carry the ball more or less every time he gets it

Against both the opponents I've highlighted, he was man marked at all times. I think inter-county managers probably agree with my opinion re: his importance and tried to blot it out as best they could. Others were just myopic and set up differently, and while they may have been inferior sides, we all saw how that went for them.

Re the over-carrying, yes last season he took it a step too far (no pun intended), but it was far less apparent this year.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

That was the second one in a row that Clarke messed up. He put the previous one down McCarthy's throat, which led to the winning point. Incidentally, if you want the difference between McCarthy and Moran for POTY, that last play is it. McCarthy was there to make the mark to win the All-Ireland, Moran wasn't.

As for the wind, from years of being in Croke Park, I am convinced that it is much more difficult to score into the Hill than the other end, which is why the Mayo wides in the first half surprised me, and why I was relaxed all through the match, knowing Dublin would come through.

It wasn't, the previous one McCarthy just read it and fair play to him, he done well. Like a lot of kickouts out from that goal, it held up in the wind a bit.

Moran had a stormer in the all Ireland final. Where was McCarthy to make all the other marks he didn't win? If you think POTY awards are handing out on catching one kickout, frankly you haven't a clue.

I agree on the mayo wides in the first half. But you have conveniently changed the point from the COC point which you made earlier. The wind played a big part in the game in general. It held up cluxtons kickouts in the first half. Rock missed 3 kicks into it, one particularly bad one. COC's kick didn't come around enough and hit the post - anyone who has kicked into the wind will know a kick not coming around is a telltale sign of wind. But keep spinning your spiel if it makes you happy.

I actually think that had we played against it in the first half we could have won the game. For starters there was 7 extra minutes playing with it in the second half. That is massive for tired legs. Furthermore, had Dublin been kicking every ball in to ogara when they had the wind, it would have been a double blow for them. All ifs buts and maybes of course, but contrary to what blanch will have you believe, it is in fact these seemingly bland decisions in games that end up seperating team, and not the fetching of a single kickout.

Billy Mays

So the 45 that Rock scuffed horribly wide and the shot that he dropped well short into Clarke's arms in the first half were due to the wind?

Ok.

ThunbergsAreGo

blanch152 wrote: »

That was the second one in a row that Clarke messed up. He put the previous one down McCarthy's throat, which led to the winning point. Incidentally, if you want the difference between McCarthy and Moran for POTY, that last play is it. McCarthy was there to make the mark to win the All-Ireland, Moran wasn't.

As for the wind, from years of being in Croke Park, I am convinced that it is much more difficult to score into the Hill than the other end, which is why the Mayo wides in the first half surprised me, and why I was relaxed all through the match, knowing Dublin would come through.

Did the same thing in the first game vs Roscommon

MayoAreMagic

Billy Mays wrote: »

So the 45 that Rock scuffed horribly wide and the shot that he dropped well short into Clarke's arms in the first half were due to the wind?

Ok.

It was definitely a factor in his 3 first half misses, I have no doubt about that. The one that dropped short was probably just a miss-cue, but the others could have been playing on his mind at that stage.