Footballer of the Year

DJIMI TRARORE

DJIMI TRARORE wrote:

It's a bit daft really,that we have to wait to see who wins the AI b4 poty is known,average season but gud, final =winner :steady season but poor final =loss

blowitupref wrote:

That would be daft if it were to happen.

Cluxton is an example of what I meant,nothing spectacular all season(not that he had to be),20\30 meter kicks,and he'll probably get it if dubs win,whereas Moran being pretty solid in 4 or 5, matches cud score 3/4 pts from play on Sunday and not get poty

blanch152

munster87 wrote: »

Would remember most footballer of the years to be honest. It's a great accolade to be fair.

I remember clearly Dublin winning the All-Ireland in 1976 and 1977. I don't have a clue who won POTY. While I know Brogan and McCauley have won it, I wouldn't know which year.

It is interesting for a minute of two but it is All-Irelands that count.

blanch152

DJIMI TRARORE wrote: »

Cluxton is an example of what I meant,nothing spectacular all season(not that he had to be),20\30 meter kicks,and he'll probably get it if dubs win,whereas Moran being pretty solid in 4 or 5, matches cud score 3/4 pts from play on Sunday and not get poty

Cluxton is the only irreplaceable player on the two-time All-Ireland champions, that makes him a more than credible player of the year but he will only want to be lifting his fourth All-Ireland as captain.

Stoner

Ahh, the keeper is always a Dub on everyone's ultimate teams.

It gets a Dub out of the way quickly and it's not really seen as a proper position anyway

But Cluxton has put it on the map so that's something in itself

Bit of a pain in my hoop listening to people saying Clarke is the best shot stopper around, regardless if it's the case or not, people are just repeating it now. I think in the first game against Roscommon he was not great for the two early goals, a lob and through his legs.

I think he's a fine Keeper TBH, but I think lads are sick of hearing about Cluxton so they throw this back.

Keegan was muck for the first few games last year and won it on the home stretch, so all Moran has to do is play well on Sunday..

Can't see O'Callaghan getting it I agree he's ypoty and the easy option will be taken. McCarthy would be my Dublin offering.

Boyle is playing very well, he's cut out the messing this year too and is a better player as a result imo.

Again I'm sick of hearing about Higgins at this stage, he's in a great position now, his best. But his primary defensive play is poor and overlooked imo. Keegan won it last year and his defensive game was a huge factor.

I think its more straight forward this year.

seamus

Road-Hog wrote: »

e.g. Last year v Kerry he almost gifted them a victory and there are quite a few other e.g. Also��

Yeah, last year

We're talking about POTY this year and the quality of his play this year has been as close to perfect as a player can get.

MayoAreMagic

Im not seeing the whole Cluxton for POTY thing. Great player obviously, but for this season the vast majority of his kickouts have been short, and I haven't seen him make any more saves than the next keeper tbh... Im scratching my head trying to figure out what he has done that makes him worthy of it. You can say that is down to Dublin not being challenged, but that still doesn't mean he gets the award.

McCarthy has been consistently very good for Dublin. Followed by Mannion and then O'Callaghan. All ahead of Cluxton in my book.

There are more in the shakeup for Mayo, by virtue of the fact they have played more games and had more tests. Any of AOS, Higgins, Clarke, Moran or Boyle would have a strong claim if they had a good final.

For me Higgins is the guy that has been playing the highest level of football consistently and so should get it, assuming everything stayed as is for the final, but knowing the award he probably wont.

MayoAreMagic

Stoner wrote: »

Bit of a pain in my hoop listening to people saying Clarke is the best shot stopper around, regardless if it's the case or not, people are just repeating it now. I think in the first game against Roscommon he was not great for the two early goals, a lob and through his legs.

I think he's a fine Keeper TBH, but I think lads are sick of hearing about Cluxton so they throw this back.

It is easy picking out an odd instance in one game though. If the above logic is to be accepted, I can just point to cluxton's two kickouts against Kerry in last year's semi and basically dismiss his ability on kickouts... You can 'prove' anything about anyone like that.

The reality is Clarke is far bigger man than cluxton, and has better reflexes. He also commands his area better. Those things combine to better shot stopping, pain in your hoop or not. Cluxton is better in other areas though, the thing is, he just isn't the best in all areas. That is completely reasonable so I don't see why you would have a pain anywhere when addressing the point. It is fanboy territory to try to suggest that your player is the best at everything. It is a bit like the old, my dad is stronger routine.

Stoner wrote: »

Again I'm sick of hearing about Higgins at this stage, he's in a great position now, his best. But his primary defensive play is poor and overlooked imo. Keegan won it last year and his defensive game was a huge factor.

I think its more straight forward this year.

His primary defensive play has been pretty good this year to be honest with you. He has for the most part operated as a sweeper and has got on a load of ball in the defence, turning it into attack effectively - surely a sign that he is doing his job well? Furthermore, McCaffrey won a POTY award and defensively he is comfortably Dublin's worst defender, so if you are sick of Higgins you must be sick of McCaffrey getting praise too... You cant have it every way.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

I remember clearly Dublin winning the All-Ireland in 1976 and 1977. I don't have a clue who won POTY. While I know Brogan and McCauley have won it, I wouldn't know which year.

It is interesting for a minute of two but it is All-Irelands that count.

Funny enough, this doesn't really hold true. Two dozen odd guys get all Ireland medals every year. Some of them never kick a ball. Only one gets the POTY though, and nobody else can win it for you.

Dirty Dingus McGee

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It is easy picking out an odd instance in one game though. If the above logic is to be accepted, I can just point to cluxton's two kickouts against Kerry in last year's semi and basically dismiss his ability on kickouts... You can 'prove' anything about anyone like that.

The reality is Clarke is far bigger man than cluxton, and has better reflexes. He also commands his area better. Those things combine to better shot stopping, pain in your hoop or not. Cluxton is better in other areas though, the thing is, he just isn't the best in all areas. That is completely reasonable so I don't see why you would have a pain anywhere when addressing the point. It is fanboy territory to try to suggest that your player is the best at everything. It is a bit like the old, my dad is stronger routine.




His primary defensive play has been pretty good this year to be honest with you. He has for the most part operated as a sweeper and has got on a load of ball in the defence, turning it into attack effectively - surely a sign that he is doing his job well? Furthermore, McCaffrey won a POTY award and defensively he is comfortably Dublin's worst defender, so if you are sick of Higgins you must be sick of McCaffrey getting praise too... You cant have it every way.

Cluxton is excellent at commanding his area one of the best in the country, this implication of him only being good at kickouts get throw around all the time and it just isn't true.

MayoAreMagic

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, last year

We're talking about POTY this year and the quality of his play this year has been as close to perfect as a player can get.

I remember one very good long kick against tyrone, and a good save early in the season, was it Kildare?
Anything else?

MayoAreMagic

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Cluxton is excellent at commanding his area one of the best in the country, this implication of him only being good at kickouts get throw around all the time and it just isn't true.

I would consider him average at commanding his area. He comes out but he probably lacks a presence and maybe a bit of size. He isn't excellent at it in fairness. Clarke would be exceptional at it though. He just has the tools for that skillset.

Like Clarke would have an average return on kickouts. Cluxton is exceptional at that and has the tools for that skillset.

Swings and roundabouts, some guys are just better at certain things than others - same as outfield players. No player is the best at every facet. This fanboy attitude where he has to be the best at everything is tedious.

Anyway, the point is who should get POTY. I would have at least 3 Dublin players ahead of cluxton for it.

Bonniedog

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I remember one very good long kick against tyrone, and a good save early in the season, was it Kildare?
Anything else?

A goalkeeper's primary role is probably to prevent goals being scored. Clarke has conceded 11 goals in the league and championship. So far ....

Cluxton has conceded just 3.

Shurimgreat

Bonniedog wrote: »

A goalkeeper's primary role is probably to prevent goals being scored. Clarke has conceded 11 goals in the league and championship. So far ....

Cluxton has conceded just 3.

Mayo have played ten games against teams who genuinely put it up to them rather than throwing in the towel early as most teams do in the Leinster championship. Dublin have played a couple of mickey mouse games in Leinster and a couple of soft games against Ulster opposition who have no interest in scoring goals.

So not really a fair comparison.

I'm of the view Dublin haven't really been tested this year. And by tested I mean the game is still in the balance with 10 minutes to go.

Dirty Dingus McGee

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I would consider him average at commanding his area. He comes out but he probably lacks a presence and maybe a bit of size. He isn't excellent at it in fairness. Clarke would be exceptional at it though. He just has the tools for that skillset.

Like Clarke would have an average return on kickouts. Cluxton is exceptional at that and has the tools for that skillset.

Swings and roundabouts, some guys are just better at certain things than others - same as outfield players. No player is the best at every facet. This fanboy attitude where he has to be the best at everything is tedious.

Anyway, the point is who should get POTY. I would have at least 3 Dublin players ahead of cluxton for it.

I'd disagree, he regularly comes out and catches the ball or punches balls out to the side and takes the pressure off his fullback.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Mayo have played ten games against teams who genuinely put it up to them rather than throwing in the towel early as most teams do in the Leinster championship. Dublin have played a couple of mickey mouse games in Leinster and a couple of soft games against Ulster opposition who have no interest in scoring goals.

So not really a fair comparison.

I'm of the view Dublin haven't really been tested this year.

That tends to be the case with great teams in all sports.They're too good to let themselves get tested.

seligehgit

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

That tends to be the case with great teams in all sports.They're too good to let themselves get tested.

TBH I think is the greatest load of nonsense that is trotted out,none of these teams have been capable of testing Dublin.It is a means of holding back credit of a Dublin that just so much superior that same teams could not compete.

MayoAreMagic

Bonniedog wrote: »

A goalkeeper's primary role is probably to prevent goals being scored. Clarke has conceded 11 goals in the league and championship. So far ....

Cluxton has conceded just 3.

Hmm. In that case Cillian O'Connor must be the best forward of all time, as he has broken all scoring records this year...:rolleyes:

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I'd disagree, he regularly comes out and catches the ball or punches balls out to the side and takes the pressure off his fullback.

He has done this on occasion. So have all keepers though. That doesn't mean he is excellent at it. There is obviously a distinction to be made there.

But again, this is about POTY, Im not looking to drag the thing off track.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

That tends to be the case with great teams in all sports.They're too good to let themselves get tested.

Examples?

Dirty Dingus McGee

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Hmm. In that case Cillian O'Connor must be the best forward of all time, as he has broken all scoring records this year...:rolleyes:




He has done this on occasion. So have all keepers though. That doesn't mean he is excellent at it. There is obviously a distinction to be made there.

But again, this is about POTY, Im not looking to drag the thing off track.



Examples?

This Dublin team, Real Madrid and Barcelona in La Liga,Kilkenny in the 00's etc etc etc are examples of teams who are too good to be challenged in most matches.

Cluxton has been excellent at commanding his area over the years better than 90% of keepers in the country.

If Dublin win the all ireland I wouldn't mind seeing him win footballer of teh year as a Ryans Giggs style lifetime achievement award.

MayoAreMagic

seligehgit wrote: »

TBH I think is the greatest load of nonsense that is trotted out,none of these teams have been capable of testing Dublin.It is a means of holding back credit of a Dublin that just so much superior that same teams could not compete.

Sorry but it isn't.
A harder run is getting drawn on the same side as Kerry or Mayo. Tyrone were supposed to step up, but their competitiveness was shown to hinge on their system. When that was taken away, they were shown to be an average team. Dublin uncracked it, and fair play to them for that, but the end result is they haven't really had a test yet. It might make a difference, it might not. But you cant start pretending that it doesn't represent a softer run to the final.
If that is the case then there has never been a soft all Ireland, as the winners were just so good rather than the others being bad. We know that isn't true.

Bonniedog

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Mayo have played ten games against teams who genuinely put it up to them rather than throwing in the towel early as most teams do in the Leinster championship. Dublin have played a couple of mickey mouse games in Leinster and a couple of soft games against Ulster opposition who have no interest in scoring goals.

So not really a fair comparison.

I'm of the view Dublin haven't really been tested this year. And by tested I mean the game is still in the balance with 10 minutes to go.

If Dublin had played Galway, Derry, Clare, Cork, Roscommon and dareisayit! even the Princes, then they would have been "mickey mouse games." too.

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Funny enough, this doesn't really hold true. Two dozen odd guys get all Ireland medals every year. Some of them never kick a ball. Only one gets the POTY though, and nobody else can win it for you.

You don't get it.

I remember players like Jimmy Keaveney, Bobby Doyle, Brian Mullins, David Hickey, Robbie Kelleher, Tommy Drumm, Paddy Cullen etc. because they won All-Irelands, not because they won POTY.

Did they even have POTY back then? I don't know, but I wouldn't be able to tell you which Dublin players won All-Stars in 1976 but I would know the All-Ireland team.

I do remember in 2010 some people getting excited about Bernard Brogan winning POTY, but I, like most Dubs, didn't give a toss because there was no All-Ireland.

Some of the candidates being put forward this year are ridiculous, including one player who lost his team a Connacht semi-final by being stupidly sent off.

MayoAreMagic

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

This Dublin team, Real Madrid and Barcelona in La Liga,Kilkenny in the 00's etc etc etc are examples of teams who are too good to be challenged in most matches.

Real Madrid and Barcelona in la liga... Wouldn't they be in competition with each other?
Dublin - so not an example of it happening elsewhere then
Kilkenny hurlers - one example, from Ireland, in a relatively niche sport, where the county in question concentrate on one sport, while their competitors don't.
These are not examples of 'great teams in all sports'...

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Cluxton has been excellent at commanding his area over the years better than 90% of keepers in the country.

Examples?

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

If Dublin win the all ireland I wouldn't mind seeing him win footballer of teh year as a Ryans Giggs style lifetime achievement award.

That is fair enough. you are entitled to have your own personal wishes. It doesn't justify it actually happening though. Although you have admitted that it would be a token gesture type thing, which is what I was saying too. So we agree.

Copper_pipe

Few rumours going around that Cluxton will retire if they win. A Cert for FOTY if that’s the case

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Real Madrid and Barcelona in la liga... Wouldn't they be in competition with each other?
Dublin - so not an example of it happening elsewhere then
Kilkenny hurlers - one example, from Ireland, in a relatively niche sport, where the county in question concentrate on one sport, while their competitors don't.
These are not examples of 'great teams in all sports'...



Examples?

The current Bayern Munich team in the Bundesliga.

The Real Madrid team that won six European Cups in a row.

Celtic in Scotland.

All teams that are too good for their competitors. Dublin are right up there.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

You don't get it.

I remember players like Jimmy Keaveney, Bobby Doyle, Brian Mullins, David Hickey, Robbie Kelleher, Tommy Drumm, Paddy Cullen etc. because they won All-Irelands, not because they won POTY.

Bernard Brogan won it in 2010 - Id imagine you know this. Can you name everyone who got a medal of the AI winners from 2010 though? I certainly cant.

Of course every player want to win an AI. But they all want to win POTY too. There are around 24 less of those given out every year and you cant win one by sitting on the bench all year... Pound for pound it is definitely harder to win for a player than the AI. What you remember is really beside the point.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

The current Bayern Munich team in the Bundesliga.

The Real Madrid team that won six European Cups in a row.

Celtic in Scotland.

All teams that are too good for their competitors. Dublin are right up there.

The Real team that was funded by the government? Hardly a good road to be taking in comparisons with the dubs...

The other two might have dominated their domestic leagues, but only when the league has been average to poor. Bayern have won 2 CL's since the 70s so they havent dominated world football. That is like saying galway dominated gaelic football because they won well in division 2. As for celtic, come off it.

You are missing the bigger picture though. This is supposed to be commonplace, yet you are struggling to get one good example... Id consider it the exception rather than the rule.

Im not trying to take the thread down this read, so if you just desist with the bad examples we can move on. Cluxton might retire, what do you think about that?

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Bernard Brogan won it in 2010 - Id imagine you know this. Can you name everyone who got a medal of the AI winners from 2010 though? I certainly cant.

Of course every player want to win an AI. But they all want to win POTY too. There are around 24 less of those given out every year and you cant win one by sitting on the bench all year... Pound for pound it is definitely harder to win for a player than the AI. What you remember is really beside the point.

You should read to the end of my post!!!!!! And why would I care about the AI winners from 2010 - they weren't Dublin.

blanch152 wrote: »

You don't get it.

I remember players like Jimmy Keaveney, Bobby Doyle, Brian Mullins, David Hickey, Robbie Kelleher, Tommy Drumm, Paddy Cullen etc. because they won All-Irelands, not because they won POTY.

Did they even have POTY back then? I don't know, but I wouldn't be able to tell you which Dublin players won All-Stars in 1976 but I would know the All-Ireland team.

I do remember in 2010 some people getting excited about Bernard Brogan winning POTY, but I, like most Dubs, didn't give a toss because there was no All-Ireland.

Some of the candidates being put forward this year are ridiculous, including one player who lost his team a Connacht semi-final by being stupidly sent off.

Look I know you need to put Lee Keegan's achievement of winning the POTY last year ahead of all the Dublin players winning an All-Ireland but I can tell you that Keegan would swap 10 POTYs for one All-Ireland medal won sitting on the bench.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

You should read to the end of my post!!!!!! And why would I care about the AI winners from 2010 - they weren't Dublin.

I did read it. The point about naming the players doesn't seem to be registering with you.

blanch152 wrote: »

Look I know you need to put Lee Keegan's achievement of winning the POTY last year ahead of all the Dublin players winning an All-Ireland but I can tell you that Keegan would swap 10 POTYs for one All-Ireland medal won sitting on the bench.

Therein lies your problem an many of these topics - too parochial a viewpoint to have a proper discussion. It isn't about keegan or any other poty. It is about the nature of the award itself versus an all Ireland. Stop thinking of everything in terms of Dublin.

Gael85

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

The Real team that was funded by the government? Hardly a good road to be taking in comparisons with the dubs...

The other two might have dominated their domestic leagues, but only when the league has been average to poor. Bayern have won 2 CL's since the 70s so they havent dominated world football. That is like saying galway dominated gaelic football because they won well in division 2. As for celtic, come off it.

You are missing the bigger picture though. This is supposed to be commonplace, yet you are struggling to get one good example... Id consider it the exception rather than the rule.

Im not trying to take the thread down this read, so if you just desist with the bad examples we can move on. Cluxton might retire, what do you think about that?

What county are you from?

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I did read it. The point about naming the players doesn't seem to be registering with you.




Therein lies your problem an many of these topics - too parochial a viewpoint to have a proper discussion. It isn't about keegan or any other poty. It is about the nature of the award itself versus an all Ireland. Stop thinking of everything in terms of Dublin.

But my point goes to the heart of your issue. No player would put an POTY award ahead of an All-Ireland medal. Do you think Bernard Brogan will be taking out his POTY award in twenty years time and saying look at this? Or will he take out his All-Ireland medals.

It is a nice little bauble, but no more than an All-Star it is only a consolation to someone who has lost an All-Ireland and a bit of icing on the substantial cake to someone who has won one, then POTY has a similar place. Sometimes, like last year's All-Star for Clarke, these awards are given in sympathy to someone who lost.

It is probably some consolation too to fans of losing All-Ireland teams that at least their man won POTY. I know what most would prefer.