All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

08-09-2017 9:18pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

TG4 have shown the B final for the last four or five seasons tbf to them. I can certainly remember they showed Kildare v Meath around 2012 when Conor Kenny who later transferred to Tipp, had a terrific game

OldMrBrennan83 · 08-09-2017 9:23pm

This post has been deleted.

letsseehere14 · 09-09-2017 12:31am

C__MC wrote:

Jackie Tyrell fairly slating Tipp in his new book about their meekness and mental fralties during their rivalry between 2009-2014. Lar Corbett comes in for particular attention as does bubbles o Dwyer. Tyrell feels both didn't have the stomach for battle with the cats. Must have been tough for Jackie watching Tipp run rings around kk in 2016.

If they thought about Tipp like that god know how they viewed the rest of us. In AI finals against tipp in that timeframe its kk won 3 Tipp won 2 and 1 draw and Kilkenny shipped 2 beatings in that.
Every county not just tipp should use comments like that as motivation against them next year.

jam83 · 09-09-2017 10:41pm

Reading the extracts from Tyrell's book last Sunday in the indo I couldn't help thinking he was exaggerating how much Kilkenny wanted to "put hurling out of these lads heads". The title of the book is stupid and all that talk about filleting teams, gutting them etc seemed exaggerated to me.
It just feels like he's trying too hard to portray how ruthless and mean that Kilkenny team were, to the point that they sound psychotic by his descriptions.
Truth probably is that lads kept hurling against beaten teams because Cody is the only lunatic there and would drop a lad if he dropped his standard during a game.
Even that talk about tipp not having fighters or whatever, it's all trying to portray Kilkenny as the leanest meanest team ever. They just had better players than other teams.
Bit disappointed to see he's filled the book with that kind of "warrior" ****e talk. Books have to be sold but that nonsense will put me off buying it. His thoughts don't seem genuine.

tomwaterford · 10-09-2017 8:29am

jam83 wrote: »

Reading the extracts from Tyrell's book last Sunday in the indo I couldn't help thinking he was exaggerating how much Kilkenny wanted to "put hurling out of these lads heads". The title of the book is stupid and all that talk about filleting teams, gutting them etc seemed exaggerated to me.
It just feels like he's trying too hard to portray how ruthless and mean that Kilkenny team were, to the point that they sound psychotic by his descriptions.
Truth probably is that lads kept hurling against beaten teams because Cody is the only lunatic there and would drop a lad if he dropped his standard during a game.
Even that talk about tipp not having fighters or whatever, it's all trying to portray Kilkenny as the leanest meanest team ever. They just had better players than other teams.
Bit disappointed to see he's filled the book with that kind of "warrior" ****e talk. Books have to be sold but that nonsense will put me off buying it. His thoughts don't seem genuine.

His analysis for the Irish Times (I think??) And how terrible it is and cliched is enough of a precursor to me that I don't fancy reading the book

Realt Dearg Sec · 10-09-2017 8:43am

You can't win with GAA fans. Say nice things, you're boring stepford wives, say controversial things, you're a bollocks. Say nothing? Hurlers have an obligation to promote the game, they should talk to the media.

What should say they say?

**** knows. I'll wait till I hear what they say and then tell you what they should have been saying all along.

tomwaterford · 10-09-2017 8:56am

Nothing wrong with saying controversial things so long as you can back them up

Don't want to end up like that mess that is eamonn dunphy spewing shte for the sake of it

Just I was of the opinion alot of his articles were poorly researched and full of cliches,it was his first year doing them so he'll prob get better??

(But tbf I only read his articles on waterford matches....you'd want them to take out your sister :rolleyes: )

jam83 · 10-09-2017 9:34am

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

You can't win with GAA fans. Say nice things, you're boring stepford wives, say controversial things, you're a bollocks. Say nothing? Hurlers have an obligation to promote the game, they should talk to the media.

What should say they say?

**** knows. I'll wait till I hear what they say and then tell you what they should have been saying all along.

They should say it as it is, without coning across like it's being made up. Controversial is great if it doesn't seem forced. But some of the bits from tyrrells book just read as exaggerated to me. That's my gut instinct from reading it.
I prefer a book to have strong opinions and good stories.
The opposite of that is codys book which is the worst sports autobiography I've read by a mile. The cagiest man in Ireland. He didn't say anything we don't already know ourselves.
I found it interesting when tyrrell mentioned how they grew sick of that striking cork team and wanted to hammer them. That I could understand and relate to. But he went on to mention that ken mcgrath said he was never the same player after the hammering Waterford got in the 08 final and the way tyrrell wrote it, it sounded like he got great satisfaction from that because that Kilkenny team wanted to destroy lads confidence through hammering teams into the ground. I just find that last bit hard to believe because it's almost psycho stuff and that's why I think it seems forced and exaggerated.
The truth is probably somewhere between what he says, and there simply being internal pressure within the squad to keep hurling to your max potential no matter the score, or you'd lose your place.

dubcat51 · 10-09-2017 9:54am

Great player who most teams of his time would have loved to have him on their team.big ques yesterday in kilkenny for his book signing.

evolving tipperary · 10-09-2017 11:33am

I find it hilarious that some people think the issue is either about being boring or controversial!

Also, Jackie is not or never was or will be a great player. He'll be the first person to tell you that. He was a dog, a hard worker, who gave it everything he got. That doesn't make him great. For example, Tony Browne or Ciaran Carey he was not. Medals or winning don't make the player. If Ollie Canning, Tony Browne or Carey were born in KK, I think it's safe to say Tyrell would not be on the team sheet ahead of them. Surely that's one of the markers of greatness, a player who would make any side of his generation in numerous positions. Tyrell was never good enough to man a central position - like truly great players like Brian Whelehan or Brian Corcoran - who played all over the field. Forwards or backs.

The issue is not controversy or the book. The issue is how Tyrell believes the game should be played and how he played the game. The issue is the example he is setting. The issue is his complete lack of class.

Look how at Joe Canning carried himself over the All-Ireland and years. That's a great player - great players bring something to sport beyond the 'game'. Tyrell doesn't see it as sport or a game. His ego is completely wrapped up in 'winning at any cost'. Joe Canning, Brian Corcoran, Brian Whelehan, or DJ Carey are the type of men and players, Jackie Tyrell couldn't dream of being. Attaching the word great to Tyrell is beyond belief. Jackie is in the Gerry Quinn bracket of player, take a player's eye out rather than try and out hurl them. That's the measure of the man. His words are his words, and he is advocating what he is advocating.

The whole attempt to ape a Roy Keane-style biography is what it is, tasteless and copied. No originality. Say anything at all costs to make a few pound in the market and stay relevant as a pundit a la Joe Brolly's style. That's Tyrell's limit view of winning and 'the game'.

mountgomery burns · 10-09-2017 11:45am

Wait till you read Joe's book next year, "I am Galway"...

OldMrBrennan83 · 10-09-2017 12:03pm

This post has been deleted.

cosatron · 10-09-2017 12:30pm

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Wait till you read Joe's book next year, "I am Galway"...

Or ' Rachel and me, a gaa love story'

aidan24326 · 10-09-2017 1:08pm

djPSB wrote: »

He doesn't come across well. Very arrogant and disrespectful. Hard listen to as a pundit too.

Must have forgot about Lar's hat trick.

Lads with a book to sell will say/write any oul' sh1te for a bit of publicity. I wouldn't take much notice of him. His comments about Tipp are pure nonsense.

I said · 10-09-2017 1:18pm

Best publicity ever having lads on here spouting scutter about what goes on in his head.
Read or don't read it who gives a fiddlers he has more all irelands than me or anyone else on here I reckon so he is well entitled to say whatever he wants.

C__MC · 10-09-2017 1:23pm

Joe canning has played the poor mouth a we bit to much this year.

I said · 10-09-2017 1:24pm

C__MC wrote: »

Joe canning has played the poor mouth a we bit to much this year.

Elaborate?

C__MC · 10-09-2017 1:25pm

Jackie has 9 all Ireland's enough said. He wasn't the most skilful hurler but he is the guy you'd want in war. His point in 2009 final summed him up.

Realt Dearg Sec · 10-09-2017 2:52pm

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Attaching the word great to Tyrell is beyond belief. Jackie is in the Gerry Quinn bracket of player, take a player's eye out rather than try and out hurl them. That's the measure of the man. His words are his words, and he is advocating what he is advocating.

'.

Whose eye did he try to take out?

evolving tipperary · 10-09-2017 3:28pm

'Assigned by Brian Cody to shadow Lar Corbett in 2011, Tipp’s rangy and coltish goal machine, Tyrrell took to the task with glee, standing on his opponent’s toes, kicking at his heels, trying to pull down his socks, which Corbett always wore stretched to knee-level.
“At one stage when he tried to dart away from me, I caught his helmet. My fingers edged through the bars on his faceguard and I scraped him below the eye with my fingernails. I’m not sure if I drew blood but when Lar started complaining to the referee I just shrugged my shoulders.”

https://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/p180/Library/SF889/676704.jpg

mickmackey1 · 10-09-2017 3:57pm

evolving tipperary wrote: »

I find it hilarious that some people think the issue is either about being boring or controversial!

Also, Jackie is not or never was or will be a great player. He'll be the first person to tell you that. He was a dog, a hard worker, who gave it everything he got. That doesn't make him great. For example, Tony Browne or Ciaran Carey he was not. Medals or winning don't make the player. If Ollie Canning, Tony Browne or Carey were born in KK, I think it's safe to say Tyrell would not be on the team sheet ahead of them. Surely that's one of the markers of greatness, a player who would make any side of his generation in numerous positions. Tyrell was never good enough to man a central position - like truly great players like Brian Whelehan or Brian Corcoran - who played all over the field. Forwards or backs.

The issue is not controversy or the book. The issue is how Tyrell believes the game should be played and how he played the game. The issue is the example he is setting. The issue is his complete lack of class.

Look how at Joe Canning carried himself over the All-Ireland and years. That's a great player - great players bring something to sport beyond the 'game'. Tyrell doesn't see it as sport or a game. His ego is completely wrapped up in 'winning at any cost'. Joe Canning, Brian Corcoran, Brian Whelehan, or DJ Carey are the type of men and players, Jackie Tyrell couldn't dream of being. Attaching the word great to Tyrell is beyond belief. Jackie is in the Gerry Quinn bracket of player, take a player's eye out rather than try and out hurl them. That's the measure of the man. His words are his words, and he is advocating what he is advocating.

The whole attempt to ape a Roy Keane-style biography is what it is, tasteless and copied. No originality. Say anything at all costs to make a few pound in the market and stay relevant as a pundit a la Joe Brolly's style. That's Tyrell's limit view of winning and 'the game'.

Well-written post, but Tyrell certainly achieved some measure of greatness.

evolving tipperary · 10-09-2017 4:14pm

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Well-written post, but Tyrell certainly achieved some measure of greatness.

I'll concede there is certainly an argument to be made for it considering the medal haul. But, personally, I seem him as a few rungs below a lot of great players.
But, that is the weakness of the argument- It's my own personal perspective.

Was he as good as JJ or Tommy? Not in my book. Noel Hickey? Not in my book. Kavanagh? Not in my book. Brian Hogan? Not in my book.
As a left corner back that will hold his man - excellent. But there are lot more things to it than that before I start throwing around the word great.

But, maybe, there is a difference to things like a great player and just saying 'The Great DJ Carey' or the 'The Great Brian Whelehan'. If you get me - some players go past, go beyond a meaning just on the field of play.

If someone says to me, how do you rate JT? I say, a very good player, beyond tough and tight. A dog. And, as dirty as a prostitute's mattress in the middle of a heatwave in June...

mickmackey1 · 10-09-2017 4:21pm

Not JJ or Tommy but I'd put him on a par with the others. Anyway I'll wait a few months and pick up a copy for 99c.

10-09-2017 6:22pm

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Well-written post, but Tyrell certainly achieved some measure of greatness.

No one is disputing the fact Tyrell was an outstanding hurler in his own right but does he really need to resort to this filth on the field? i mean im all on for a good hard shoulder and the odd ferocious whip on a ball but stamping on toes, grabbing faceguards is really knuckleheaded carry on.

dubcat51 · 10-09-2017 8:53pm

For me he was a great player and leader in a team of leaders.what other teams like cork waterford or galway wouldnt have given for a player like jackie.as for a central role he captained stephens to a county title v ballyhale at centre back.books are made for selling pure and simple and by the q in kk on saturday morning he sold a load.

evolving tipperary · 10-09-2017 9:13pm

dubcat51 wrote: »

For me he was a great player and leader in a team of leaders.what other teams like cork waterford or galway wouldnt have given for a player like jackie.as for a central role he captained stephens to a county title v ballyhale at centre back.books are made for selling pure and simple and by the q in kk on saturday morning he sold a load.

In all fairness, playing center back at club level is not the business end of the inter county championship.

dubcat51 · 10-09-2017 9:18pm

evolving tipperary wrote: »

In all fairness, playing center back at club level is not the business end of the inter county championship.

Agreed but playing corner back is just as important a role.his stoppinf if corbett in 11 was the most important role of the day.so much so that lar tried to mark tommy in 12.

evolving tipperary · 10-09-2017 9:37pm

dubcat51 wrote: »

Agreed but playing corner back is just as important a role.his stoppinf if corbett in 11 was the most important role of the day.so much so that lar tried to mark tommy in 12.

Can't agree that corner back is as important a position as a center back. Potentially, if a corner back has a rotten day a corner forward can go to town. You could lose a game if a 6 is taken to the cleaners. The center back - holds the center - it's key - and his role as a link to midfield and half forwards is crucial. If a center forward or midfielders break through the 6 position the whole backline is in trouble. Good distribution from the 6 can make a forwards day. The 6 will see a lot more ball than a corner back - unless the strategy is a short puck out.

If we get into examples of games we'll be here all day!

We'll have to agree to disagree on Tyrell's greatness. I've made my points on it in a few earlier posts. Don't want to rehash them. But, I'll gladly debate it further if you want to go into details.

Maybe you won't agree with this, but I think Peter Barry was a better center back than Tyrell. Both at their peak like. But, I would concede that Barry would never make a corner back never mind be on the level of Tyrell as a corner back. So overall I'd say Tyrell was a more rounded player. But, I wouldn't say Barry or Tyrell was one of the greats of the game like DJ or Brian Corcoran.

Powerhouse · 10-09-2017 9:56pm

evolving tipperary wrote: »

'Assigned by Brian Cody to shadow Lar Corbett in 2011, Tipp’s rangy and coltish goal machine, Tyrrell took to the task with glee, standing on his opponent’s toes, kicking at his heels, trying to pull down his socks, which Corbett always wore stretched to knee-level.
“At one stage when he tried to dart away from me, I caught his helmet. My fingers edged through the bars on his faceguard and I scraped him below the eye with my fingernails. I’m not sure if I drew blood but when Lar started complaining to the referee I just shrugged my shoulders.”

It says something about the guy that he would consign this to print and probably thinks it reflects well on him. He might have been lucky enough to be born at the right time in the right place so that he won a load of honours, which many people find it hard to get past and his apologists routinely hide behind, but this sort of stuff proves that he is not worthy of any sort of mention when people talk about great hurlers. In fairness to him he head-butted Colin Fennelly in a Kilkenny County final so he was an equal opportunities hit-man. But an out and out hit-man he was, nothing more nothing less. Damned by his own words. The frontal charges when the opponent was most vulnerable was one thing but scraping someone's face through the helmet FFS, could he get much lower? A genuinely great hurler would have relied on his hurling ability rather than scummy carry-on like that.

Powerhouse · 10-09-2017 10:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No one is disputing the fact Tyrell was an outstanding hurler in his own right but does he really need to resort to this filth on the field? i mean im all on for a good hard shoulder and the odd ferocious whip on a ball but stamping on toes, grabbing faceguards is really knuckleheaded carry on.

Plenty would dispute the word "outstanding". Give your own view but don't assume the world agrees with you. And if this is indicative of his reaction when meeting a player whose ability threatens him the strength of the argument that he was not outstanding grows. Outstanding players should not have to resort to that.

All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

Comments