2018 Leaf

ELM327 · 06-09-2017 09:14AM

cros13 wrote: »

It is coming with a 3.3kW for the Japanese model. The european model will have three-phase 11kW support, at least as an option.

Up to 60kW

It's DC up to the chademo1 max specs, 125a and 500V, I thought.

AC type2 3 phase 11kW may only be capable of 3kW when connected to single phase connection. EG if you have single phase 6.6kW at home you will not be able to charge at 6.6kW on a 11kW triple phase EV. The i3 has similar issues on the 11kW equipped model.

DrPhilG · 06-09-2017 09:15AM

DesperateDan wrote: »

I wouldn't say this car is built to make you upgrade your current leaf, it's natural we ain't there yet. But for prospective owners it's a great car.

I suppose this hits the nail on the head.

Current owners are a fairly small part of the market compared to the prospective owners, and to them 150 miles is a damn sight more appealing than 80/110.

ELM327 · 06-09-2017 09:15AM

DrPhilG wrote: »

Really? What bonuses?

The reason we got what we expected is because most had set their expectations very low.

+1
Even my low expectations were not matched.
I'd like to see a link to the AC specs so we can see if 6.6kW home charging is possible.

Casati · 06-09-2017 09:17AM

I think Nissan are onto a winner here as it not longer looks like an electric car, especially the interior which is a massively step up.

I would not underestimate how much the current Leaf's 'unique' design has worked against it. It's been designed for mass market appeal. By pricing lower than the current one it's obvious that they are hoping to cover development costs with higher sales

Hopefully will do a better job educating the market that the range will meet the requirements of the average motorist

DrPhilG · 06-09-2017 09:17AM

cros13 wrote: »

The european model will have three-phase 11kW support, at least as an option.

Link?

For confirmed European/Irish/UK specs that is.

DrPhilG · 06-09-2017 09:22AM

DesperateDan wrote: »

I wouldn't say this car is built to make you upgrade your current leaf, it's natural we ain't there yet. But for prospective owners it's a great car.

DrPhilG wrote: »

I suppose this hits the nail on the head.

Current owners are a fairly small part of the market compared to the prospective owners, and to them 150 miles is a damn sight more appealing than 80/110.

Herein lies the biggest issue for Irish drivers at least.

The 40kwh Leaf with normal looks and 150 miles range may not tempt a flood of upgrades from current EV drivers, but it probably will bring a hell of a lot of new owners onto the road.

Big increase of owners
+
Already floundering charging network
=
Major headaches for those using the public charging network in the next few years.

cros13 · 06-09-2017 09:30AM

DrPhilG wrote: »

Really? What bonuses?

I wasn't expecting the increase in boot space.
Weight increased less than expected.

DrPhilG wrote: »

Link?

For confirmed European/Irish/UK specs that is.

We don't have them yet. The announcement last night was for japanese dealers with US dealers watching the stream, since they use J1772 Type 1 in Japan & US three phase isn't an option for them. Three phase support for the european leaf was confirmed to me by someone at Nissan HQ a few weeks ago and is a requirement for 4kW+ home charging in many european markets.

80sDiesel · 06-09-2017 09:32AM

The styling is nothing to get excited about.

06-09-2017 09:34AM

liamog wrote: »

Like I said it's a psychological barrier, having to plug in, and wanting to plug in are two very different impressions.

As an EV driver, you know it's not an issue, for an ICE driver, being told you need to plug in every night to go about your business can be off putting. Being told you "only" need to plug in one night a week makes it a different ball game.

Also, people without home chargers etc... stuff we've discussed in many different threads. It means 1 in 7 apartment parking spaces needs a charger instead of 1 in 2.

Very few people with no home charging will buy EV especially with the current speed of charging and lack of fast charge points.

I can't remember anyone telling me that they are put off by plugging in an EV , it's range that's the issue.

Soarer · 06-09-2017 09:36AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The wine was good, I needed it to sit through that presentation !

After "sleeping on it" I've decided this updated Leaf isn't for me, not based on the presentation but on the specs. I think the deciding factor will be the EPA test whenever that happens.

A lot nicer car to look at though much better than the existing one.

More power and updated interior are all positives and also more range will make it appeal to many more people.

I prefer drunk angry Mad Lad!

cros13 wrote: »

Propilot probably an option on SV and SVE. Some chance it may get bundled with SVE... at least at some point.

XE from €23.5-24.5k OTR including dealer charges. SV and SVE €26k and €30k OTR respectively. Tech pack adding maybe €1.5-2k on to that.

Less scrappage, if they're still offering it?

Also cros, any knowledge on when the Euro specs will be announced? Days? Weeks?

80sDiesel wrote: »

The styling is nothing to get excited about.

But it's nothing to turn you off either. That was the problem with the first one.

06-09-2017 09:37AM

cros13 wrote: »

It is coming with a 3.3kW for the Japanese model. The european model will have three-phase 11kW support, at least as an option.

Up to 60kW

That at least is a big improvement over the current 24 Kwh Leaf and even the 30 Kwh and it will be years yet before we see 100+ Kw chargers in Ireland anyway with the current state of the infrastructure.

cros13 · 06-09-2017 09:41AM

Soarer wrote: »

Less scrappage, if they're still offering it?

RRPs so probably room for negotiation and scrappage deals all right.

Soarer wrote: »

Also cros, any knowledge on when the Euro specs will be announced? Days? Weeks?

Not a clue... but european production starts November/December coinciding with LG Chem's new plant in Poland coming online.

grogi · 06-09-2017 09:56AM

DrPhilG wrote: »

Really? What bonuses?

The reason we got what we expected is because most had set their expectations very low.

No, those were reasonable expectations.

I really don't get where this disapointment is coming... Slow charging? Let's wait for EU specs...

Apart from that the new Leaf is bigger, faster and goes further - all for the same money. It's range is bigger than Ioniqs, and it costs less.

The 40 kWh is much cheaper than the standard Tesla Model3 and will be even more if you spec both up. The Leaf 60 kWh still will be and will go further than than it. Is more practical (HB) and has more conservative dash, which is a big deal for many.

So where the WTF is coming from?! I know, everyone can design and manufacture a better car.

06-09-2017 10:00AM

I think in the U.S at least Nissan could have a big problem , the battery still has 0 form of cooling.

80sDiesel · 06-09-2017 10:09AM

Which will arrive in Ireland first ? The Leaf 60kw or the Tesla 3 ?

liamog · 06-09-2017 10:10AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Very few people with no home charging will buy EV especially with the current speed of charging and lack of fast charge points.

I can't remember anyone telling me that they are put off by plugging in an EV , it's range that's the issue.

That makes sense in a world where you needed to plug in every other day.
When you need to do it once a week, it's a different problem to solve.

Right now you'd be mad to buy a car without home charging when you need to plug in every other day. When you have the range to plug in once a week, it's a very different equation.

A petrol Ford Focus covering the same distance would cost you around €1527 in fuel, if charging was a €10 fee once a week, you'd still be saving €1000 a year for the cost of 30 minutes of your time. Unless your paid more than €40 an hour it's an efficient use of your time, I suspect anyone earning more than that has their own driveway.

DrPhilG · 06-09-2017 10:10AM

grogi wrote: »

The Leaf 60 kWh still will be and will go further than than it.

Until we have a fixed date for the 60kwh Leaf it's just a distant hope the same as the 200 mile Ioniq.

grogi · 06-09-2017 10:11AM

DrPhilG wrote: »

Until we have a fixed date for the 60kwh Leaf it's just a distant hope the same as the 200 mile Ioniq.

And the Tesla for $35k?! Nobody have seen one either...

ELM327 · 06-09-2017 10:21AM

grogi wrote: »

And the Tesla for $35k?! Nobody have seen one either...

Yes they have, they are in the US only as production ramp begins.

Mancomb Seepgood · 06-09-2017 10:25AM

Nice looking car, definitely prefer it to the current model although I've been quite happy with my 24kw Leaf.Definitely more of a step up than a revolutionary overhaul.

3 year PCP is up in March so I will need to decide what to do.I'm tempted to hang on to my current Leaf and wait and see over the coming year or two what comes down the line.As things stand I rarely have to use the public charging network (thankfully).

06-09-2017 10:27AM

Lets face it , a 40 Kwh EV isn't going to swing it for the majority of people living on this Island. It will take a minimum of 60 Kwh and a lot more EV models.

At best with this updated Leaf I expect sales to rise from 0.5% to perhaps 0.7% absolute max, though that's probably being a bit optimistic.

It's a shame Nissan didn't give a reasonable indication as to when a longer range Leaf will become available , then again, why would they ? they want this 40 kwh to sell rather than have people wait, well wait is what I'll be doing anyway.....

80sDiesel · 06-09-2017 10:29AM

Wont folks just wait for the Leaf 60 since it is confirmed. ( and not bother with the Leaf 40).

"[font=HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif]With that said, Nissan will only be making the 40 kWh available out of the gate, the 60 kWh battery [/font][font=HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif](with reportedly better performance as well)[/font][font=HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif] arrives in the second half 2018 – as a 2019 model."[/font]

thierry14 · 06-09-2017 10:34AM

80sDiesel wrote: »

Which will arrive in Ireland first ? The Leaf 60kw or the Tesla 3 ?

They might as well not bother with 60kw

Who would buy one of them over a model 3

Vastly inferior in every way, that's just against a Chevy Bolt

Model 3 blows it away

Nissan should just keep aiming at the Dacia market with this Leaf

Anyone that likes cars/driving would buy a Tesla/other

I just can't believe the top speed

140kmh

I cruise at that

06-09-2017 10:35AM

Oh I don't think a 60 Kwh version was confirmed just more range.

I would expect late next year to see 50 Kwh then late 2019 maybe 60 Kwh. I don't think we'll see a 20 Kwh jump any time soon.

DrPhilG · 06-09-2017 10:36AM

80sDiesel wrote: »

Wont folks just wait for the Leaf 60 since it is confirmed. ( and not bother with the Leaf 40).

"[font=HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif]With that said, Nissan will only be making the 40 kWh available out of the gate, the 60 kWh battery [/font][font=HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif](with reportedly better performance as well)[/font][font=HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif] arrives in the second half 2018 – as a 2019 model."[/font]

I will, and I suspect a lot of current owners will.

But Joe Public will see an EV with 150 miles range rather than the current 100ish and will be happy to take the plunge.

Plus the 60kwh is still not solid. No release date or specs.

06-09-2017 10:38AM

thierry14 wrote: »

They might as well not bother with 60kw

Who would buy one of them over a model 3

Vastly inferior in every way, that's just against a Chevy Bolt

Model 3 blows it away

Nissan should just keep aiming at the Dacia market with this Leaf

Anyone that likes cars/driving would buy a Tesla/other

I just can't believe the top speed

140kmh

I cruise at that

I think by the time a 60 Kwh version Leaf is available the price will be a good bit cheaper than the Model 3 which won't be cheap , not with any decent extras. Leaf will never cost anywhere near 40K not going to happen and Nissan won't bother because they know no one would pay that for a hatch regardless the range and certainly not for a Nissan.

DrPhilG · 06-09-2017 10:40AM

grogi wrote: »

And the Tesla for $35k?! Nobody have seen one either...

Daft argument and not comparable. The Tesla M3 has a release date and orders are taken, they are just struggling with demand and production.

The 60kwh Leaf and a longer range Ioniq are no more than a vague rumour at this point.

I'm not sure what the dollar price of the M3 has to do with anything.

thierry14 · 06-09-2017 10:40AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Lets face it , a 40 Kwh EV isn't going to swing it for the majority of people living on this Island. It will take a minimum of 60 Kwh and a lot more EV models.

It still won't do Limerick to Dublin @ 120kmh motorway speed?

That's a pretty lame target for a flagship 2018 EV

DrPhilG · 06-09-2017 10:44AM

thierry14 wrote: »

It still won't do Limerick to Dublin @ 120kmh motorway speed?

That's another thing that is up in the air at the minute.

How much does motorway speed kill the range. In the current Leaf it's comically bad. In the Ioniq it's much better. Not sure the Zoe can even reach motorway speed lol.

I've read that the cd for the new Leaf is down from .3 to .27 but that's still a good bit off the Ioniq with .24.

06-09-2017 10:45AM

DrPhilG wrote: »

Herein lies the biggest issue for Irish drivers at least.

The 40kwh Leaf with normal looks and 150 miles range may not tempt a flood of upgrades from current EV drivers, but it probably will bring a hell of a lot of new owners onto the road.

Big increase of owners
+
Already floundering charging network
=
Major headaches for those using the public charging network in the next few years.

Yes, absolutely, this upgrade is very nice for someone entering the EV market but ultimately the charging network could be the decision many will not buy EV, however with 250 odd Kms range charging at public points will be rare and those with no charging at home will not buy it at all or very very few and in my opinion that would be foolish if they did.

We're only a few weeks away from the budget and it's unlikely to get Government funding and if the ESB get control how likely are they to spend money on the network that is 1.5 years behind ?

2018 Leaf

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