"Non book readers" - Season 7 Episode 7 "The Dragon and the Wolf"

The breaking of the wheel has been one of the main themes of the later seasons. We have seen major dynasties shaken: either eradicated entirely or staggering on with imperfect scions.

The Starks are relatively healthy though still headed by a bastard (so far as is popularly known) with only two girls and a cripple (don't goggle that) as alternative heirs. The Mormonts have lost Jeor and probably Jorah, Lyanna is as formidable as either but the house still seems to lack male heirs. The Boltons are extinct while the Umbers and Karstarks are barely hanging in with child lords.

House Arryn is down to a single, sickly heir who does not look like becoming the next Tywin Lannister anytime soon. The Greyjoys are now headed by an insane person with the rightful heir being a eunuch disinterested in rule. The three surviving members of that dynasty are intent on murdering each other.

The Freys are dead. House Tully is deposed, it's sole surviving son weak and in a weak position. The Baratheon's are extinct for now- Gendrey being the only hope of a future restoration. The Martells are gone, mostly murdered by their own.

House Tyrell is extinguished, House Tarly with them. A Tarly restoration seems even less likely than a Baratheon, resting as it does on Sam who swore away his inheritance. The Lannisters are down to three deeply troubled individuals facing fatal threats from various sources- including each other.

So far as is popularly known (and as far as Dany knows) the Targs are down to a single, infertile member. The ironic twist being that that great House, which was the closest to perishing throughout the series, could be the strongest by the story's end comprised of two young, widely respected and highly capable individuals.

With the legendary figures who dominated Westeros at the beginning of the story such as Robert, Tywin, Stannis, Oleanna and Ned all passed (none of old age) a new generation of heroes/villains has emerged in the forms of Jon, Dany, Cersei and Euron among others. As much as the breaking of the wheel has been a theme of the series, as the established Houses have floundered, so too has the changing of the guard: the fall of the old order, the disappearance of the figures of that order and the struggle to replace them.

ludite wrote: »

I guess that makes Sam the lord of wherever the Tarly's are from now.

Don't they denounce all titles and houses when they become commander of the night's watch?

Since the wall is gone doesn't that make the night's watch obsolete?

Pugzilla wrote: »

Castle Black and the Shadow Tower are still standing, could be used as a rallying points to launch a counterattack against the flank of the army of the dead. If the Nightking didn't have a dragon, I imagine a disciplined army with heavy infantry, missile units and artillery could f@ck up the wights. But this being TV show, we''ll probably get another lame battle like Spoils of War where a few hundred men are supposed to represent the whole Lannister/Tarly army.

How many men are in both though? They need Valeryan steel swords and dragonglass to stand some chance against the wights and white walkers. Has enough dragonglass been mined and made into weapons? Even if Dany uses Drogon and Rhaegon would they be enough to take down Viserion? I guess I'm just thinking of the bigger picture now. Viserion being the Night King's biggest weapon causes a lot of problems. If Jaime is on the side of Dany and co maybe he should get his hand replaced with something made from dragonglass. I know he has his sword but a hand made with dragonglass would be a slight advantage.

spacecoyote wrote: »

They should just go full on Army of Darkness with Jaime, Valerian steel chain-saw to cut his way through an army of wights

You could just use horses either side with massive cheese cutter or piano wire, it would slow them down massively.

JamboMac wrote: »

True, but uplift like flight has to be able to be made for flight and if you create zero uplift, but can fly then he could have just floated all the wights over the wall.

If it gets to that stage the Night King could replace the skin on the wings with sailcloth or something similar. That real danger to the wight-dragons power is if the series of organs that create the dragon fire rot away.

In fact having pretty much the entire dragon as a skeleton bar the fire generating organs and wings would make it much deadlier, wouldn't it? Less mass to lift and much less surface area to cause drag would make it much faster and more agile in the air.

jcd5971 wrote: »

your using logic on a show about the resurected corpse of a dead dragon...

What's your point?



I don't read reviews (of anything) and tend to avoid any online discussion of Game of Thrones in case of spoilers but I've seen headlines and heard people talking and I'm a little confused by the reaction of people to this episode.

Wasn't it revealed in the Season 6 finale that Rhaegar was Jon Snow's father and that, consequently, Daenyaras was his aunt? And wasn't it was fairly obvious from the first meeting that Daenyaras and Jon were going to get together? In fact, I had guessed this was going to happen several seasons back.

Yes, it is "eeewww!!!" but why are people reacting with such surprise?

The only revelation was that Jon Snow is the "rightful king", which was actually revealed much earlier by Gilly and no real surprise when Bran had the vision.

Also, does anyone agree that Tyrion hanging about in the hallway is nothing sinister - just a little bit of sadness because he cares for Daenyaras in that way but it would never be. Or is he concerned that a union between the two might be good to stop the Wight Walkers but could turn ugly in the long run?