Is Boards.ie Extremely Right-Wing?

Cheerful Spring · 22-08-2017 12:52pm

Arghus wrote: »

The opening paragraph of the article of the source that you provided reads:

and its final sentence reads:

So roughly two thirds of roughly nine million - well that makes six million.

Fantastic job there with your source. I suppose considering that we started off the evening with you defending the extreme left and then the extreme right - the fact that your own sources refute your own arguments shouldn't come as that much of a surprise: more just a natural progression of illogical thought.

Accounts of Belsen? Here, let me help you:

go for it!

We have 3 sources for the European Jewish population prior to WW2.

Chambers Encyclopaedia: 6.5 million
Alamanc 1933: 9.5 million 15 million worldwide prior to WW2 ( provided by the Jewish committee)
Dellgorda estimates 9 million.

If we take it 6 million jews got wiped out that would leave only 3 million+ jews after the war.

The probem with that is Alamac 3 years after the war ended estimated the Jewish population worldwide to be still at 15 million. They got this information from Jewish sources and only 300,000 to 400,000 Jews were unaccounted for in Europe, after the war. Alamac pressured by the Jewish lobby and World opinion dropped the Worldwide Jewish population to 11 million in 1949. This would mean only 4 million jews died when the figures got changed. There is no evidence that can be collaborated that supports 6 million jewish deaths.

And we have to ignore 1.5 to 2 million Jews left Europe for Sweden, Spain, Portugal, Australia, China, India, Palestine and the United States, prior to WW2 and many more left when the war ended. Jewish lobby claims there was still 4 milion ( European) Jews left in 1948. For Hitler to have wiped out 6 million Jews, there would have to be least 12 to 14 million European Jews.

jmayo · 22-08-2017 12:58pm

The thing is it is getting a bit like McCarthsim, people are seeing Nazis everywhere.

For a site that is so "right wing" look through the posts on this thread.

As some posters have pointed out political and current affairs discussion on this site, and especially the slant of the mods, is distinctly left of centre.
In political discussion see the reaction to anyone anti EU, anti mass immigration, anti open house for so called Middle Eastern refugees, anti welfare for life for those not sick or disabled.
They are quiet quickly challenged and quiet often labelled as racists, and ultimately nazis.

The real laugh is I bet you will find feck all real nazis around here.
At least thankfully I haven't found that many who would laud hitler and espouses the annihilation of entire races as subhuman.

And a real nazi is akin to those muppets marching around Charlottesville waving swastikas who think hitler and his Reich were right, other races are subhuman, other religions are to be attacked and violence is the way to achieve this.
But who has espoused that type of cr** around here.

As for right wing economic outlook, anyone that thinks our welfare state has created generations of career dolers with massive entitlement complexes is immediately someone that wants to privatise everything from education and healthcare to the police force.
I can actually only really think of one poster who wants to go towards that model and that is about it.

Oh and of course according to some posters, the people who have some of the views above as rabid right wingers who by extension must want to ban homosexuality, chain women to sinks, drive out all foreigners, etc, etc.

It is not that simple that if someone is right wing in some respects it them applies to every possible topic and outlook.
And if they are right wing in some opinions doesn't immediately qualify them as members of a neo nazi party.
Have some people ever heard the term conservative I wonder.

The Irish don't really do far anything.
We tend to be kinda middle of the road.

And seriously how anyone can find the likes of Fine Gael far right is fooking delusional.
Fine Gael would be considered lefty pinko in the likes of the US, especially given their history on social issues and the fact they are now led by an openly gay guy.

A Little Pony · 22-08-2017 1:07pm

Try being a Unionist on here, it's great fun.

Cheerful Spring · 22-08-2017 1:13pm

Saruhashi wrote: »

Oh goddammit. Belsen was a CONCENTRATION CAMP.

It's not like mothers were queuing up with their children hoping for the opportunity to be let in.

Sure only 50,000 people died there but there were smiling women and children so it's not ALL bad, right?

The Nazis executed enough people that it greatly outweighs any kind of "skepticism" about how bad things really were.

I think you might also be confusing Boards with Stormfront.

Never once did i claim it was not a concentration camp? I have even blamed the Nazis for every Jewish death at any concentration camp! But i will not believe the Nazis wiped out 6 million Jews when it can be proved to be not the case. And when you research Belsen and here is the Wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergen-Belsen_concentration_camp

Explanation for why Jewish people are dying.
Overcrowding, lack of food and poor sanitary conditions caused outbreaks of typhus, tuberculosis, typhoid fever and dysentery.

There is no evidence least at this camp, the Nazis shot and killed hundreds of Jews and left their bodies in unmarked graves. We can blame the Nazis for the deaths, but there is no evidence at all of bad treatment of prisoners and mass executions

ligerdub · 22-08-2017 1:24pm

Grayson wrote: »

That's why intersectionality exists. You can pick a middle class woman and show that they better off than a working class man but that proves nothing. It doesn't prove that women have it better than men. The idea is that each trait increases the chance of a negative impact on a persons life. So in the US for example it can be stated that in general working class women have it worse than men. In general working class minority women have it worse than working class white women.

All these are generalities and you can find exception. You'll probably find quite a few. The idea though is that in the majority of cases this is true. And of course it's different around the world. For example because of the way race/gender is perceived in different countries you will find it being a positive or negative depending on where you are. That doesn't mean that it isn't a negative in particular place.

And yes, you mentioned some benefits that women have. However women aren't provided with better education. You said that women are less likely to be the victims of violence. That's only true if you look at particular types of violence. Overall women are far more likely to be victims of violence and are far more likely to be the recipients of gender based violence. They are also far more likely to be sexually assaulted and that's not even mentioning harassment.

Rather than making it a Them Vs Us thing (which sounds like that monty python sketch. "I worked 14 days down mine each week"), I prefer to recognise that each gender has it's negatives and try to work to make it better. I'm quite capable of seeing that men are more less likely to get help for depression and advocate better mental health education. I'm also able to march against the 8th amendment because I believe women are being let down by the standard of care they're given in hospitals.

Intersectionality to me reads data mining to cherry pick arguments that suit.

Women aren't provided with better education but they aren't provided with worse (at least in Western society). The same is true in terms of opportunities for women to enter the careers they wish to enter.....i.e. free will. So while the inequality of outcome is ok in terms of educational achievements, it's not ok in terms of their career choices?

"You said that women are less likely to be the victims of violence. That's only true if you look at particular types of violence. Overall women are far more likely to be victims of violence" - No I think his point was that men are more likely to be victims of violence in general terms, and I'm sure that is correct.

I understand that the majority of victims are sexual assault are men, but that's because of the level of cases that occur in prison populations. I'm not speaking from an area of expertise but I have heard it from quite a few sources.

His main point had quite a few examples of ways that men, for whatever reason, have experienced difficulties. Are we to accept that the main points he raised were correct, but we can still cherry pick on certain strands because it sounds like the right thing to do? To me it always reads that certain strands are identified (rarely analysed as to why this may be true) and then used as a tool to tar a much larger population.

The further the atom is split in terms of various groups, the more it seems that the original, lower level of detail (skin colour, gender) arguments have failed. I'd also like the gender studies and intersectionality advocates to be intellectually honest in their arguments to use a more forensic/inquisitive angle to their findings rather than pointing at things like earnings of a group and pointing say "see?.....look"

Wibbs · 22-08-2017 1:29pm

Grayson wrote: »

That's why intersectionality exists.

intersectionality; a quicker route up one's own fundament is harder to find.

And yes, you mentioned some benefits that women have. However women aren't provided with better education.

Yes they are. There are more women third level graduates across the board in Ireland. Sounds like better education to me, but of course that doesn't fit your script.

You said that women are less likely to be the victims of violence. That's only true if you look at particular types of violence. Overall women are far more likely to be victims of violence and are far more likely to be the recipients of gender based violence.

Again overall men, particularly young men are the most likely to be the victims of violence. This is well researched fact Ted. Study after study has shown that in partner abuse it's about equal. Indeed in some particular types of partner abuse more women are the perpetrators. How many avenues for help are abused men given?

They are also far more likely to be sexually assaulted

That's true. In adulthood anyway. It's about equal in childhood.

and that's not even mentioning harassment.

I'd agree with that.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Overcrowding, lack of food and poor sanitary conditions

We can blame the Nazis for the deaths, but there is no evidence at all of bad treatment of prisoners.

See above. Did the prisoners overcrowd themselves? Did the prisoners starve themselves? Did the prisoners refuse toilets and clean water? Man I've read some deluded insanity in my time, but you Sir are providing some of the highest quality delusions I've heard in a while.

Cheerful Spring · 22-08-2017 1:41pm

Mirror game wrote: »

And what are your views on Josef Mengele?
Do you believe he carried out human experimentation at Auschwitz extermination camp?
Do you believe he built a pathology lab and experimented on twins(children) dwarfs and people with physical abnormalities?
Do you believe he sewed the children together back to back to create conjoined twins?
What about injecting their eyes with chemicals?

Another poster mentioned the Holocust, in a reply to me and i replied to this person. When another poster in a reply to me (Wibbs) mentioned Belsen, i decided to looked this up and i found photographs online, Jewish women and children,, looking healthy and well feed at Belsen. That's interesting i thought to myself., nothing at all like i expected to find. And then i found a Jewish woman eyewitness account of her time at Belsen and she said the Nazis feed gave her 3 meals a day, and the immates she saw all received the same. She said conditions at the camp only deteriorated during the last months of the war.

To answer you. I have not researched Auschwitz, or any other camp, so i would have to research it. Is there photographs and video of healthy Jews at Auschwitz? What is the best evidence at Auschwitz for the gassing of Jews?

jackofalltrades · 22-08-2017 1:46pm

So the founder of the site came out and said that right wing opinion was becoming extremist.
The Mods have closed threads because the wrong side was winning.
Even closed down a forum because of a thread on migration.
Even in this thread we have had "sure the Holocaust was alright" being widely denounced.
To claim that this site is extremely right-wing is laughable.
A handful of persistent re-regs with multiple accounts aren't representative of the group opinion on this site.

The tweet is another examples of how some people in this country having a very skewed view of the left/right wing spectrum.
Just look at Leo Vararkaar being comapred to Thatcher and FG being compared to the republican party.

Cheerful Spring · 22-08-2017 1:53pm

Wibbs wrote: »

See above. Did the prisoners overcrowd themselves? Did the prisoners starve themselves? Did the prisoners refuse toilets and clean water? Man I've read some deluded insanity in my time, but you Sir are providing some of the highest quality delusions I've heard in a while

This was war time and Germany was falling apart early 1945. Germany was having a hard time feeding i'st own people.

I take it you have no evidence there was any mass executions of Jews at Belsen, right? If i am wrong please provide even 1 eyewitness account where he/her saw Nazis line up Jews and shoot them?

You're failng to understand the difference here. Did the Nazis intentionally kill the Jews? Or and seems to be the case, the war and conditions at the camp broke down and Jews at the camp got sick and died.

jmayo · 22-08-2017 1:59pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Never once did i claim it was not a concentration camp? I have even blamed the Nazis for every Jewish death at any concentration camp! But i will not believe the Nazis wiped out 6 million Jews when it can be proved to be not the case. And when you research Belsen and here is the Wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergen-Belsen_concentration_camp

Explanation for why Jewish people are dying.
Overcrowding, lack of food and poor sanitary conditions caused outbreaks of typhus, tuberculosis, typhoid fever and dysentery.

There is no evidence least at this camp, the Nazis shot and killed hundreds of Jews and left their bodies in unmarked graves. We can blame the Nazis for the deaths, but there is no evidence at all of bad treatment of prisoners and mass executions

What are you actually arguing ?

Are you admitting that Jews died at Bergen Belsen, but yet are arguing they weren't mistreated ?

Here is some basic history.

For a start Bergen Belsen was classed a concentration camp as it was in Germany itself.
It was not a death camp ala the ones found in Poland.

When concentration camps were initially set up they were meant to hold and torture political opponents and union organizers.
It was only a year so later when they came under the auspices of himmler that they started taking in the so called undesirables like Jews, criminals, homosexuals, and Roma.

Death camps or extermination camps were ultimately to wipe out the "Untermenschen" which were the likes of Jews, Slavs, Communists, Roma.

Also the nazis realised that wholesale mass slaughters carried out by the Einsatzgruppen and their willing local accomplices in the East were not killing enough and that it was taking a toll on their own scumbag murderers.

There had been mass executions in places like Babi Yar outside Kiev in Sept 1941 where over 33,000 were executed over 2 days.
Einsatzgruppe A operated in the formerly Soviet-occupied Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania and killed over 140,000 in the first 5 months after the invasion.
The two days of the Rumbula massacre outside Riga wiped out 24,000 Latvian Jews and 1,000 German jews that had arrived by train.

The Final Solution was only formalised in Jan 1942 at the Wannsee Conference.

And gassing was decided as the method after it had been used on Red Army prisoners.
The extermination camps were Auschwitz, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka and they replaced the mobile killing squads.
It was also decided that useful Jews could be worked to death.

Something that a fair few people debate, but I think is highly probable is that most of the German army knew damn well what was going on.

And the other point that some peoples and countries want to forget is their complicity in helping the nazis undertake these slaughters.

One of the worse war crimes in WW2 was carried out by Romanians in Odessa when in the end 1941/early 1942 they wiped out
around 100,000 Ukrainian Jews.

I don't what is worse you trying to find excuses of some sort for the nazis or the lauding of chairman mao.
And yet back to thread topic, I am the one sometimes labelled a nazi.

ohnonotgmail · 22-08-2017 2:01pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

This was war time and Germany was falling apart early 1945. Germany was having a hard time feeding it own people.

I take it you have no evidence there was any mass executions of Jews at Belsen, right? If i am wrong please provide even 1 eyewitness account where he/her saw Nazis line up Jews and shoot them?

You're faiing to understand the difference here. Did the Nazis intentionally kill the Jews? Or and seems to the case the war and conditions at the camp broken down and Jews at the camp got sick and died.

This has already been said to you but perhaps this time it will get through your skull. Belsen was NOT a death camp. The purpose of bergen-belsen was somewhat unique. it was created to hold jewish prisoners (i.e. people guilty of being jewish) so that they could later be exchanged for german soldiers held as prisoners of war by the allies. The conditions therefore are naturally going to be an improvement on a death camp like auschwitz. A dead prisoner being much more difficult to exchange.

Again your failure to do basic research is just an embarrassment for you.

Mr. CooL ICE · 22-08-2017 2:03pm

Mod:

Shut up about the holocaust. Bloody hell...

Cheerful Spring, I don't know where you could continue denying the holocaust if you wanted to, but After Hours isn't it.

Cheerful Spring · 22-08-2017 2:09pm

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Mod:

Shut up about the holocaust. Bloody hell...

Cheerful Spring, I don't know where you could continue denying the holocaust if you wanted to, but After Hours isn't it.

I never brought it up in first place maybe read the thread first before calling me out on it.

Cheerful Spring · 22-08-2017 2:11pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

This has already been said to you but perhaps this time it will get through your skull. Belsen was NOT a death camp. The purpose of bergen-belsen was somewhat unique. it was created to hold jewish prisoners (i.e. people guilty of being jewish) so that they could later be exchanged for german soldiers held as prisoners of war by the allies. The conditions therefore are naturally going to be an improvement on a death camp like auschwitz. A dead prisoner being much more difficult to exchange.

Again your failure to do basic research is just an embarrassment for you.

And yet posters where quick to post links to photographs of mass graves at Belsen!

A Little Pony · 22-08-2017 2:13pm

You would need to be an absolute lunatic to not believe the mass genocide of the Jewish people during WW2. Anyone denying it never explains how so many people just disappeared, the photos showing bodies piled up on top of one another, the huge pits full of bodies, ovens with skeletons in them and so on.

It's the most stupid denial of a historical reality ever.

jmayo · 22-08-2017 2:15pm

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Mod:

Shut up about the holocaust. Bloody hell...

Cheerful Spring, I don't know where you could continue denying the holocaust if you wanted to, but After Hours isn't it.

Actually can we hang on please for a moment.

There is a debate here about if the site is far right wing or not, and probably ultimately if it is really nazi/neo nazi.

One can't really discuss the nazis without mentioning their slaughters and extermination policies, especially the holocaust and their treatment of others particularly in Eastern Europe.

Besides I don't think I have ever found someone defending nazi treatment of Jews and Chairman Mao at the same time.

Also Cheerful Spring might be doing us a service here.
Has any other posters come out and offered excuses for the nazis or backed them up ?
If not then how can we consider the site to be rabid right wing i.e. nazi/neo nazi ?

Arghus · 22-08-2017 2:16pm

topper75 wrote: »

In all the years hanging around this site, one thing I don't ever recall is a mod picking up on a post because it was too left wing.

Conclude what you will from that.

You could conclude that there isn't actually many extreme left wingers around.

Mr. CooL ICE · 22-08-2017 2:18pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I never brought it up in first place maybe read the thread first before calling me out on it.

I never said you did

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

And yet posters where quick to post links to photographs of mass graves at Belsen!

Let this be the last post about the holocaust

Mr. CooL ICE · 22-08-2017 2:19pm

jmayo wrote: »

Actually can we hang on please for a moment.

Mod:

Lets not. Thread is about boards.ie being right-wing and as soon as the holocaust started being discussed, it all got a bit weird. And not an AH type of weird.

Permabear · 22-08-2017 2:31pm

This post has been deleted.

Grayson · 22-08-2017 2:35pm

I said

And yes, you mentioned some benefits that women have. However women aren't provided with better education.

So you replied with.

Yes they are. There are more women third level graduates across the board in Ireland. Sounds like better education to me, but of course that doesn't fit your script.

How does that prove that women are provided better educations? Women have the exact same opportunities as men in that regard. And the education they receive isn't different to the one men receive. When I did maths I didn't notice a secret women's maths class (Then again, if it was secret, would I notice it?)

And if you want to disprove intersectionality then try it. Don't just mask an insult to me. It's simple set theory. Some people belong in groups that are at a higher risk. When you are in multiple groups then your chances of something bad happening increases. In this way you can see that risk is higher for certain members of sub sets, but not all.

So if in the US you have an X chance of going to prison, that increases if you're male, that increases again if you're young and that increases again if you're poor and finally it increases again if you're black.
It doesn't mean that if you belong to all those groups you will go to jail. And it doesn't mean that if you're not in any of them you won't. It just identifies certain characteristics that increases your risk.

A Little Pony · 22-08-2017 2:39pm

The great leap forward literally starved millions of Chinese people, Mao was a horrendous person with a crap ideology. Numbers from 17 to 55 million people died in that tyrannical period. Stalin and Mao always outdo Hitler on the number count.

Cheerful Spring · 22-08-2017 2:40pm

jmayo wrote: »

But doesn't it depend on the way you go about it.

What is your opinion on Stalin and his 5 year plans to transform the Soviet Union ?

Sure , but Mao intention was to modernise China’s economy. He did not set out to mass murder, he set out to make China a better place to live

And we know the main cause of the deaths in 1959 to 1960 was due to the bad weather ie floods and drought. China experienced a famine. China had not enough food to feed it's people. China was communist and enemy of America and right started claiming the Chinese were deliberately not feeding it's people, a lie.

Stalin never researched him. All i know is the Soviet economy fell apart trying to match the US economy.

Cheerful Spring · 22-08-2017 2:58pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

The great leap forward literally starved millions of Chinese people, Mao was a horrendous person with a crap ideology. Numbers from 17 to 55 million people died in that tyrannical period. Stalin and Mao always outdo Hitler on the number count.

False. This video debunks everything the right ( Fox News) has said about Mao.

wotswattage · 22-08-2017 3:04pm

There was a thread back along where some guy was moaning that his life was a misery after losing his relatively well paying job and having to make do with a minimum wage job for the time being. He was partly complaining about his own life and partly feeling sorry for/opening a discussion about minimum wage living standards in Ireland.

It seemed most of the posters replying had the attitude that someone who finds themselves on the minimum wage is either too lazy or too stupid to better themselves and deserved nothing other than a miserable life. I guess it's not storm front type right wing but God help us all if the people posting on that thread are left in charge...

The reading of that thread kind of stopped me posting on boards much.

Permabear · 22-08-2017 3:06pm

This post has been deleted.

Yeah_Right · 22-08-2017 3:07pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Sure , but Mao intention was to modernise China’s economy. He did not set out to mass murder, he set out to make China a better place to live.

That's cool then. He had good intentions. The fact several million people died is inconsequential.

bananabread12 · 22-08-2017 3:10pm

There is no left vs right - the whole idea of it is an outdated concept. In fact, if you look back to the French Revolution initially the free market capitalists were the left-wingers.

There is no left vs. right - it's simply the State and it's statutory monopolisation vs. You.

Cheerful Spring · 22-08-2017 3:11pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

That's cool then. He had good intentions. The fact several million people died is inconsequential.

Watch the video. The guy has researched the topic and you learn the truth. If you want to believe the crazy American right, is correct that's on you. Chinese scholars and historians do not see Mao as a mass murderer.

professore · 22-08-2017 3:23pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Myths by the right. Mao changed Changed China for the better. Poverty decreased and Chinese families could not feed themselves. Mao start providing free health care and education to the Chinese for the first time.

There is no evidence Mao slaughtered 50 million people. People died during times of faminei, that happened in 1958 ( lasted 3 years) And the right wing (America) blamed Mao for killing he's people.

This from a right wing site :eek:

Is Boards.ie Extremely Right-Wing?

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