permission to shoot.

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

..........i cant shoot deer with .22 so there is no point learning to use the wrong tool for the job i want to do. .270 has higher kick than .22 so why not get good on that?

You're both right and wrong or more accurately the info you're being given is.

The law says you need good reason for applying for any firearm. If you don't need, want or have good reason for a .22lr then to apply for one to learn on is a fraudulent application and will be refused.

On the flip side going from absolutely no experience to a .270 is literally jumping in the deep end. The .270 has a hell of a kick and for a novice it'll give you all kinds of bad habits like flinching which leads to missing which leads to injured quarry.

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

223vmax. my hunter friend lets just call him brendan. is quite connected he set me up with the safety instructor set me up with the gun dealer (they are all friends he is also close friend of family) and the gun has already been ordered through the dealer. putting down deposit very soon. so the choice of gun has already been made and ordered so a bit late to turn around and say i want .22. .270 isnt really that much of a jump anyway.

You have no permissions and no membership to a range of gun club. You cannot apply for the rifle as you lack the above. So until you get permissions or membership to a range or club you're going nowhere. I know this is the reason for the thread, but i can guarantee you no one will offer a complete novice permission. Most land owners are cautious, actually overly cautious and want reassurance you have experience, insurance, and most of all the necessary safety knowledge.

All that being said the info you've mentioned in the quote above is slightly alarming. That a "friend" introduced you to a dealer and said dealer has given you a safety course and taken a deposit for a 270 is sketchy at best and downright wrong at worst. The fact they have done what they have done without informing you that your application is stalled shows they don't have your best interests at heart.

i originally wanted to go for .308 but was talked into .270 on the basis that .308 is tooo beig and .22 is too small

They are right about the 22lr, but talking utter nonsense about the 308. A 270 is equal to and in most cases more powerful than a 308. So if he deems the 308 as overkill why does he think a more "powerful" caliber/round would be more suitable?

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

well its been ordered now for about a week already so i guess thats the one i gotta go for now.

Again they have taken a deposit/money of you and done so without truly helping you. I find that very distasteful.

i dont have loads of money so im just going to stick with the one gun at the minute

I'll break this down to basic. I'm averaging some prices and using lowest possible for others. All prices are new.

• Rifle - €1000
• Scope - €500
• Mounts & Rings - €100
• Bipod - €75
• Suppressor - €300
• Club/range membership - €150 to €600 per year
• Rifle case - €50
• Gun safe - €200

So you are looking at between €2375 to €2825 to start off. It's not a cheap sport especially if you're starting out on the "higher end" of the caliber scale.

All the above could be gotten cheaper if you bought second hand and shopped around various ranges/clubs. However you're still looking at €1,500 minimum to start off with.

I only say all this so you know what you are facing into. That doesn't include travel, ammo, cleaning stuff, and weekly/monthly expenses.

ganmo wrote: »

What happens if the farmer asks you to shoot a dog worrying his animals?

That is a far off proposition. I'm shooting over 30 years and have yet to be asked or in a position to have to do this.

wirehairmax wrote: »

Sounds like you're being led up the garden path by a few characters who smell fresh meat.

I would agree with this. Either purposely, accidentally or through ignorance you have not been given the best information possible or according to some of what you said above even good information.

That is not a pot shot, just a heads up.

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

ok full story because i do trust these guys to some degree its my ma's best friends husband so id expect him not to be dicking me around.

I'm not trying to insult you or your friend so if you've taken any insult it was not intended, but you've seriously been given poor information.

my knowledge of guns is all theory iv done alot of research over the years but as you know unless its in the family its not that much talked about.

Knowing and doing are two separate things. Knowing helps enormously and well done for looking into it, but the act of shooting is a whole different ball game.

asked me if i had a gun in mind , i told him ruger american 308 and he told me 308 was overkill for what i wanted i asked him what he would recommend and that was 270.

As above, wrong information if from no other perspective than it's ballistically wrong, not to mention you pick the gun you want, not the one you were told to.

ive gotten my safety cert from a guy in co wicklow and we sat down infront of a power point and discussed the points for roughly two hours and at the end he deemed my knowledge sufficient i guess.

Not directed at you, but that is a fecking joke. I can read a book on how to fly a plane but would you travel as a passenger with me?

You need to handle firearms, shoot them, and see how they actually work because the real world effects are different to what you read about. It's why i believe such courses should only be run on ranges.

i really would like to think im not being ****ed into buying a gun i ultimately might not be allowed to own.

Not allowed to own, cannot license for the moment, did not want, etc. Can you see a pattern here? I'd cancel that ASAP and start looking around instead of listening to one person. If you decide after it's for you then order one. BTW there are dozens of dealers and anyone ofthem can get you pretty much any gun you want. You DON'T need a specialised or "authorised" agent of Ruger to get one. Here is a list of all RFDs.

Have you gone around a few ranges yet? You should. They are free to visit and any range will happily walk you around and let you test fire some firearms. You can then make a more informed decision.

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

CASS! thank you so much that is the most help iv been offered here so far and i doubt anyone else would put that effort in thank you!

I'm sure your friend is trying to help you. I know my friends would do the same, but one thing to learn is never takes only one persons advice/word for something. That includes me too. Ask as many people as you can. Take in the 100% of what you've been told, eliminate the 90% that is not useful and learn from the 10% that is.

Like the lads above, they are offering you their best opinion and because of the information you have been given and relayed here most find it incredulous and so some may think you are "spoofing", and others that you are completely ill-prepared. The shooting community is not out to put people off the sport, but we approach everyone with cautious apprehension because of the way some "lay people" view shooting. IOW trolling, etc. Again not an insult nor an accusation. We have spent decades being vilified simply because of the tools we use in our sport.

im not trying to argue in anyway so just bear with me..

I will argue with anyone about anything. SO lash away.

. ok the friend hasnt introduced me to the dealer. the guy for the safety course was a seperate person which i dont really want to share his name especially now if it turns out i was shafted (dont want to get anyone in trouble!) but i was told ''he was the best''

My comments on the safety courses is still valid, but also highlight a serious problem we have. In Ireland there is no regulation or official recognition of any courses. That means anyone can hold a course in their kitchen, shop, field, range, etc. and the Gardaí will 99% of the time accept the "cert" they are presented with. I would consider myself fairly well versed in shooting. From the act of hunting, to target shooting and even the law to some small degree yet i would into put myself forward as an instructor for such a course because i have ethics/morals. Others have no such scruples and happily certify people as being competent without ever showing them a firearm let alone the basics of handling and use.

iv also not put a deposit down yet.

Well that is a good start. DON'T.

Picking the rifle is a detailed and important part. Ordering is the easy part as any RFD would be happy to deal with you, but you need to bee sure the firearm you choose is the one you want, suits your needs, and suits your ability.

i have been in contact with a couple of clubs and will be going for a tour of the facillities sometime in the next couple weeks.

What county are you in? If you're near or in the Midlands some time i'd happily show you around the MNSCI range in Tullamore. I can show you the various types of shooting and possibly get you some trigger time on various firearms to show you what is involved. All free by the way. Just bring your own sandwiches.

however i was somewhat disappointed in the course i was expecting to be shown at least how to clear a pistol,shotgun and rifle. again i know how to clear each on certain models but again only in theory. was that something that should have happened? i had no idea what to expect really

You should have been. Even if you could not get to fire the firearm you should have been shown an actual firearm. I've found if people actually do an action rather than read about it they learn faster and are less likely to forget.

My young lad turned 16 a few weeks back. He has been out with me and his Grandfather since he was 8. At 14 he got his training license and when he turned 16 he applied for his full license. When i hand him any firearm on the range he immediately, through muscle memory, clears the firearm .Even if i've told him it's clear he still does it as that is how i've shown/trained him to do it. He can safely and competently work a shotgun (over/under and semi auto), rifle (from 22lr to .308) and even my pistols. He has gotten something most don't and that is years of practical experience, but the principles are the same. Hands on experience beats reading every time.

In your own words if you were to get a firearm now after doing that course you have no actual experience with how the rifle works or functions and with firearms you don't get any "mulligans". One moments lapse in judgement or mistake and things get very serious, very quickly.