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permission to shoot.

jonnysnapshop

Hi all. first time posting so thanks for reading. im trying to get my gun/hunting licence for deer in the wicklow area but i dont know any farmers to even ask one for permission. does anyone have any advice? i mean do i google earth for big plots of land and knock up to the door? or go to a farmers market and randomly start asking people? if anyone at all can share some advice it would be hugely appreciated!

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GrasstoMilk

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

Hi all. first time posting so thanks for reading. im trying to get my gun/hunting licence for deer in the wicklow area but i dont know any farmers to even ask one for permission. does anyone have any advice? i mean do i google earth for big plots of land and knock up to the door? or go to a farmers market and randomly start asking people? if anyone at all can share some advice it would be hugely appreciated!

Have you any experience shooting deer?

You surely have experience if your looking for a licence? Do you track alongside someone who already has the licence?

pms7

Was told join a gun club is the way to go

jonnysnapshop

ni i have no experience shooting at all. i have my safety cert, gun has been ordered. i am currently sharing a house with people but iv been waiting to move into a house on my own for a while now. should only be a month or two before the house is ready. until then i wont be able to get my liicence. but in order to get my licence i need written permission to shoot on someones land. am going to be joining a club also but iv been told alot of clubs have caliber and range restrictions and wont take on members without a licence so here i am asking for advice.

jonnysnapshop

i have a very experienced deer hunter talking me through most of this and i will be going out with him in the future to track and stalk. but the land he uses the owner has been told to stop giving out permission slips because too many people on the land.

ganmo

id say go hunting with other ppl first and go from there.
If someone I didn't know or had no way of knowing them came looking for permission I'd flat out tell them no. I want to know the ppl that come here

223vmax

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

i have no experience shooting at all. ...

Do yourself a favour and buy a small calibre .22 and learn how to shoot safely, then build up in calibre if you want. Most Supers will not grant a firearms license to a novice on a calibre which is deer legal (above .243).....

jonnysnapshop

yeah completely reasonable dont want a load of pikeys in a van turning up and clearing the place out and destroying land. id be happily willing to work for the farmers in question id have no bother at all workin on the farm one or two days a week or something as a fair trade type thing. like i said iv no experience shooting so i want to spend a year at the range getting decent before trying to kill anything. so any permission slips i get is literally a formality wont be using the land at all for at least a year!

jonnysnapshop

223vmax- the hunter who has been talking me through everything had a mate that suggested that. but my thoughts and the thoughts of the hunter would be. i cant shoot deer with .22 so there is no point learning to use the wrong tool for the job i want to do. .270 has higher kick than .22 so why not get good on that? for example you wouldnt use a toothpick when you need a cango hammer

jonnysnapshop

thats the thing too id be happy just getting the gun licence and spending time practicing at the range then when my skill increases profficiently i can go for the hunting licence.

jonnysnapshop

223vmax. my hunter friend lets just call him brendan. is quite connected he set me up with the safety instructor set me up with the gun dealer (they are all friends he is also close friend of family) and the gun has already been ordered through the dealer. putting down deposit very soon. so the choice of gun has already been made and ordered so a bit late to turn around and say i want .22. .270 isnt really that much of a jump anyway. i originally wanted to go for .308 but was talked into .270 on the basis that .308 is tooo beig and .22 is too small

jonnysnapshop

i dont want to hunt for at least a year but i still need the permission to get the licence

MysticMonk

There's simply no point in ordering a rifle and putting down a deposit without written permission from two landowners. You can be a part of a gun club but theres no point buying a deer-capable rifle if you've nowhere to shoot it so even with gun club membership you probably won't get the licence without hunting permissions.

You will also need secure storage (which cops will inspect) and very few landowners will let you hunt without insurance of some sort.

You need to walk before you can run,ask some farmers can you shoot on their land WITH A .22 and apply for that before you think of buying a .223 or.308

GrasstoMilk

223vmax wrote: »

Do yourself a favour and buy a small calibre .22 and learn how to shoot safely, then build up in calibre if you want. Most Supers will not grant a firearms license to a novice on a calibre which is deer legal (above .243).....

I would agree. A . 243 is a big gun for a first timer. Get a 22 and practice on rabbits and foxes. I personally wouldn't let anyone I didn't know with no experience on my land with a gun like that.

223vmax

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

i want .22. .270 isnt really that much of a jump anyway.

:rolleyes: .22 is the one on the far left, .270 is the one on the far right.

White Clover

This guy is deluded. Is this rifle to be solely used for hunting??

jonnysnapshop

well its been ordered now for about a week already so i guess thats the one i gotta go for now. plus i have absolutely no interest in hunting anything im not going to eat. i dont like the idea of killing for the point of killing. no problem with conservation or culling reasons obviously. plus i like foxes haha im only going to be going for deer and taget shooting. i dont have loads of money so im just going to stick with the one gun at the minute and i know .22 is alot cheaper than .270 so i do plan on getting a 10-22 for plinking and target shooting but that may be next year or when i get a better paying job in the new town

jonnysnapshop

im not deluded mate im new dont be a cock. hunting and target shooting

MysticMonk

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

well its been ordered now for about a week already so i guess thats the one i gotta go for now. plus i have absolutely no interest in hunting anything im not going to eat. i dont like the idea of killing for the point of killing. no problem with conservation or culling reasons obviously. plus i like foxes haha im only going to be going for deer and taget shooting. i dont have loads of money so im just going to stick with the one gun at the minute and i know .22 is alot cheaper than .270 so i do plan on getting a 10-22 for plinking and target shooting but that may be next year or when i get a better paying job in the new town

You won't get the licence without permissions so i don't know why you're even bothering.

What make of rifle is it btw?

ganmo

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

well its been ordered now for about a week already so i guess thats the one i gotta go for now. plus i have absolutely no interest in hunting anything im not going to eat. i dont like the idea of killing for the point of killing. no problem with conservation or culling reasons obviously. plus i like foxes haha im only going to be going for deer and taget shooting. i dont have loads of money so im just going to stick with the one gun at the minute and i know .22 is alot cheaper than .270 so i do plan on getting a 10-22 for plinking and target shooting but that may be next year or when i get a better paying job in the new town

What happens if the farmer asks you to shoot a dog worrying his animals?

I think this thread should be moved to the hunting forum for their input

jonnysnapshop

if im on the land and the dog is on the land attacking the livestock then ill do whatever i have to in order to protect the famers livelihood of course doesnt mean ill enjoy doing it.

could you please post a link to the hunting forum i didnt know there was one only just joined the site.

and thanks to everyone for the tips and criticism its much appreciated

ganmo

http://touch.boards.ie/forum/1014

jonnysnapshop

thank you

wirehairmax

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

223vmax. my hunter friend lets just call him brendan. is quite connected he set me up with the safety instructor set me up with the gun dealer (they are all friends he is also close friend of family) and the gun has already been ordered through the dealer. putting down deposit very soon. so the choice of gun has already been made and ordered so a bit late to turn around and say i want .22. .270 isnt really that much of a jump anyway. i originally wanted to go for .308 but was talked into .270 on the basis that .308 is tooo beig and .22 is too small

Sounds like you're being led up the garden path by a few characters who smell fresh meat. Did you "order" a brand new gun? There are literally hundreds of them sitting in firearms dealers all over the country. What about scope and mod? Are these new as well?
You sound easily led. Who's the "safety instructor" and what did the safety course consist of? Have you any experience with firearms of any description?
Your mate the hunter and the dealer let you order a brand new gun even though you've nowhere to hunt at all? Sounds all very dodgy to me. I'd cancel that order if I were you and relax and have a think about what you're doing. If you actually do shoot a deer, what are you going to do with it? Ever gralloched anything before? And where are you going to hang it, skin it and butcher it?
I don't think you've thought this through at all

jonnysnapshop

ok full story because i do trust these guys to some degree its my ma's best friends husband so id expect him not to be dicking me around. my knowledge of guns is all theory iv done alot of research over the years but as you know unless its in the family its not that much talked about. we sat down for about an hour in his kitchen he showed me the different caliber rounds and explained their uses etc. asked me if i had a gun in mind , i told him ruger american 308 and he told me 308 was overkill for what i wanted i asked him what he would recommend and that was 270. he then roughly went through the whole process from safety cert , gun licence , hunting licence , hcap and what each allow me to do (roughly). ive gotten my safety cert from a guy in co wicklow and we sat down infront of a power point and discussed the points for roughly two hours and at the end he deemed my knowledge sufficient i guess. the hunter friend then text saying he had some paperwork he picked up for me for either gun or hunting licence so i called him a couple days later to arrange picking it up and he told me that he had been down to the gun shop picking something up and he asked the guy about rugers. (i asked him to look into the availability because ruger only have one place in galway listed on their site) guy told him he sold the last one recently and asked if he wanted to put an order in because he was due to get more **** in anyway, so he said go ahead. now thats as far as i am so far. i really would like to think im not being ****ed into buying a gun i ultimately might not be allowed to own. but he did say if i was serious about it he would help me so it could just be him be proactive about it.

Cass

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

..........i cant shoot deer with .22 so there is no point learning to use the wrong tool for the job i want to do. .270 has higher kick than .22 so why not get good on that?

You're both right and wrong or more accurately the info you're being given is.

The law says you need good reason for applying for any firearm. If you don't need, want or have good reason for a .22lr then to apply for one to learn on is a fraudulent application and will be refused.

On the flip side going from absolutely no experience to a .270 is literally jumping in the deep end. The .270 has a hell of a kick and for a novice it'll give you all kinds of bad habits like flinching which leads to missing which leads to injured quarry.

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

223vmax. my hunter friend lets just call him brendan. is quite connected he set me up with the safety instructor set me up with the gun dealer (they are all friends he is also close friend of family) and the gun has already been ordered through the dealer. putting down deposit very soon. so the choice of gun has already been made and ordered so a bit late to turn around and say i want .22. .270 isnt really that much of a jump anyway.

You have no permissions and no membership to a range of gun club. You cannot apply for the rifle as you lack the above. So until you get permissions or membership to a range or club you're going nowhere. I know this is the reason for the thread, but i can guarantee you no one will offer a complete novice permission. Most land owners are cautious, actually overly cautious and want reassurance you have experience, insurance, and most of all the necessary safety knowledge.

All that being said the info you've mentioned in the quote above is slightly alarming. That a "friend" introduced you to a dealer and said dealer has given you a safety course and taken a deposit for a 270 is sketchy at best and downright wrong at worst. The fact they have done what they have done without informing you that your application is stalled shows they don't have your best interests at heart.

i originally wanted to go for .308 but was talked into .270 on the basis that .308 is tooo beig and .22 is too small

They are right about the 22lr, but talking utter nonsense about the 308. A 270 is equal to and in most cases more powerful than a 308. So if he deems the 308 as overkill why does he think a more "powerful" caliber/round would be more suitable?

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

well its been ordered now for about a week already so i guess thats the one i gotta go for now.

Again they have taken a deposit/money of you and done so without truly helping you. I find that very distasteful.

i dont have loads of money so im just going to stick with the one gun at the minute

I'll break this down to basic. I'm averaging some prices and using lowest possible for others. All prices are new.

Rifle - €1000
Scope - €500
Mounts & Rings - €100
Bipod - €75
Suppressor - €300
Club/range membership - €150 to €600 per year
Rifle case - €50
Gun safe - €200

So you are looking at between €2375 to €2825 to start off. It's not a cheap sport especially if you're starting out on the "higher end" of the caliber scale.

All the above could be gotten cheaper if you bought second hand and shopped around various ranges/clubs. However you're still looking at €1,500 minimum to start off with.

I only say all this so you know what you are facing into. That doesn't include travel, ammo, cleaning stuff, and weekly/monthly expenses.

ganmo wrote: »

What happens if the farmer asks you to shoot a dog worrying his animals?

That is a far off proposition. I'm shooting over 30 years and have yet to be asked or in a position to have to do this.

wirehairmax wrote: »

Sounds like you're being led up the garden path by a few characters who smell fresh meat.

I would agree with this. Either purposely, accidentally or through ignorance you have not been given the best information possible or according to some of what you said above even good information.

That is not a pot shot, just a heads up.

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

ok full story because i do trust these guys to some degree its my ma's best friends husband so id expect him not to be dicking me around.

I'm not trying to insult you or your friend so if you've taken any insult it was not intended, but you've seriously been given poor information.

my knowledge of guns is all theory iv done alot of research over the years but as you know unless its in the family its not that much talked about.

Knowing and doing are two separate things. Knowing helps enormously and well done for looking into it, but the act of shooting is a whole different ball game.

asked me if i had a gun in mind , i told him ruger american 308 and he told me 308 was overkill for what i wanted i asked him what he would recommend and that was 270.

As above, wrong information if from no other perspective than it's ballistically wrong, not to mention you pick the gun you want, not the one you were told to.

ive gotten my safety cert from a guy in co wicklow and we sat down infront of a power point and discussed the points for roughly two hours and at the end he deemed my knowledge sufficient i guess.

Not directed at you, but that is a fecking joke. I can read a book on how to fly a plane but would you travel as a passenger with me?

You need to handle firearms, shoot them, and see how they actually work because the real world effects are different to what you read about. It's why i believe such courses should only be run on ranges.

i really would like to think im not being ****ed into buying a gun i ultimately might not be allowed to own.

Not allowed to own, cannot license for the moment, did not want, etc. Can you see a pattern here? I'd cancel that ASAP and start looking around instead of listening to one person. If you decide after it's for you then order one. BTW there are dozens of dealers and anyone ofthem can get you pretty much any gun you want. You DON'T need a specialised or "authorised" agent of Ruger to get one. Here is a list of all RFDs.

Have you gone around a few ranges yet? You should. They are free to visit and any range will happily walk you around and let you test fire some firearms. You can then make a more informed decision.

jonnysnapshop

CASS! thank you so much that is the most help iv been offered here so far and i doubt anyone else would put that effort in thank you! so a couple of things i want to respond to. im not trying to argue in anyway so just bear with me... ok the friend hasnt introduced me to the dealer. the guy for the safety course was a seperate person which i dont really want to share his name especially now if it turns out i was shafted (dont want to get anyone in trouble!) but i was told ''he was the best'' iv also not put a deposit down yet. i have been in contact with a couple of clubs and will be going for a tour of the facillities sometime in the next couple weeks. i have done the sums and its within my budget to put a few quid away each to get this going. however i was somewhat disappointed in the course i was expecting to be shown at least how to clear a pistol,shotgun and rifle. again i know how to clear each on certain models but again only in theory. was that something that should have happened? i had no idea what to expect really

Cass

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

CASS! thank you so much that is the most help iv been offered here so far and i doubt anyone else would put that effort in thank you!

I'm sure your friend is trying to help you. I know my friends would do the same, but one thing to learn is never takes only one persons advice/word for something. That includes me too. Ask as many people as you can. Take in the 100% of what you've been told, eliminate the 90% that is not useful and learn from the 10% that is.

Like the lads above, they are offering you their best opinion and because of the information you have been given and relayed here most find it incredulous and so some may think you are "spoofing", and others that you are completely ill-prepared. The shooting community is not out to put people off the sport, but we approach everyone with cautious apprehension because of the way some "lay people" view shooting. IOW trolling, etc. Again not an insult nor an accusation. We have spent decades being vilified simply because of the tools we use in our sport.

im not trying to argue in anyway so just bear with me..

I will argue with anyone about anything. SO lash away.

. ok the friend hasnt introduced me to the dealer. the guy for the safety course was a seperate person which i dont really want to share his name especially now if it turns out i was shafted (dont want to get anyone in trouble!) but i was told ''he was the best''

My comments on the safety courses is still valid, but also highlight a serious problem we have. In Ireland there is no regulation or official recognition of any courses. That means anyone can hold a course in their kitchen, shop, field, range, etc. and the Gardaí will 99% of the time accept the "cert" they are presented with. I would consider myself fairly well versed in shooting. From the act of hunting, to target shooting and even the law to some small degree yet i would into put myself forward as an instructor for such a course because i have ethics/morals. Others have no such scruples and happily certify people as being competent without ever showing them a firearm let alone the basics of handling and use.

iv also not put a deposit down yet.

Well that is a good start. DON'T.

Picking the rifle is a detailed and important part. Ordering is the easy part as any RFD would be happy to deal with you, but you need to bee sure the firearm you choose is the one you want, suits your needs, and suits your ability.

i have been in contact with a couple of clubs and will be going for a tour of the facillities sometime in the next couple weeks.

What county are you in? If you're near or in the Midlands some time i'd happily show you around the MNSCI range in Tullamore. I can show you the various types of shooting and possibly get you some trigger time on various firearms to show you what is involved. All free by the way. Just bring your own sandwiches.

however i was somewhat disappointed in the course i was expecting to be shown at least how to clear a pistol,shotgun and rifle. again i know how to clear each on certain models but again only in theory. was that something that should have happened? i had no idea what to expect really

You should have been. Even if you could not get to fire the firearm you should have been shown an actual firearm. I've found if people actually do an action rather than read about it they learn faster and are less likely to forget.

My young lad turned 16 a few weeks back. He has been out with me and his Grandfather since he was 8. At 14 he got his training license and when he turned 16 he applied for his full license. When i hand him any firearm on the range he immediately, through muscle memory, clears the firearm .Even if i've told him it's clear he still does it as that is how i've shown/trained him to do it. He can safely and competently work a shotgun (over/under and semi auto), rifle (from 22lr to .308) and even my pistols. He has gotten something most don't and that is years of practical experience, but the principles are the same. Hands on experience beats reading every time.

In your own words if you were to get a firearm now after doing that course you have no actual experience with how the rifle works or functions and with firearms you don't get any "mulligans". One moments lapse in judgement or mistake and things get very serious, very quickly.

jonnysnapshop

i will be back in south county wicklow by years end. its a pretty laid back sort of a deal for now. i got my cert n im saving for safe. but im going with more info now from a call this morning from another of my mums friends husbands saying the same as you guys so thats what im gonna do. iv had a look online and i like the look of marlins and cz's so im gonna go ahead and keep the 270 on order because iv been drooling over video reviews and such for months( and it will take me longer to buy anyway) but in the mean time get a .22 to learn on and get good with. including yourself cass, ive had 3 offers to tour ranges and have a look in the last 24hrs so delighted with the great response from clubs very enthusiastic. if i was driving id take you up on the offer of course. im studying for the theory driving test had to go get the new material this morning just found out my versions were obsolete so soon enough i will take you up on the offer even though ill probably be shooting by then but it would be fun anyway

jonnysnapshop

iv also gotten an offer to pay a farm for permission to use the land. is this a normal thing and what would you usually pay and is it worth it?

Cass

A .22lr is a perfect starting rifle. There are numerous reasons for this:

It's a great rifle to learn the basics of shooting
No recoil so little fear of picking up bad habits like flinching
It's cheap to buy and cheap to run
There are numerous competitions in most ranges in .22lr
They resell quickly as it's a desirable caliber
Most ranges cater for them and have comps for them.
There are no comps for fullbore rifles at under 100 yards/metres (not including Gallery)
Applications for lower calibers are usually favoured for first time owners
Not a huge investment if you find you don't like it and want to sell on.
It's good enough for vermin if you decide to do some hunting

The limitations with a .22lr are range, and effectiveness on larger game. The difference between a rimfire, and centrefire is based on the make up of the round used. See the picture below;

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-59xVtAxq-X8Po0nkwdkF4S3ga56MlMZCzF7bigNmSqcj8T84eg

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-59xVtAxq-X8Po0nkwdkF4S3ga56MlMZCzF7bigNmSqcj8T84eg

The round to the left being the rimfire meaning once the bottom/rim of the cartridge is struck by the firing pin the round is discharged. On a centrefire the primer (no 4 on right picture) must be struck which ignites the propellant and fires the bullet (bit more complicated but that is the basics)

Most rimfires have a range of between 0 - 125 yards, effective range. Centrefire rifles, depending on shooter ability have mush greater effective ranges, and hence need A LOT more experience to handle. Apart from the firearm you need to be aware of your environment, backstop (where the bullet will finish) shot placement, etc. Its not quite as easy as point and pull the trigger.

The best selling and most popular starter rifle is the CZ .22lr.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR-P3yQ9V4wFljLW6gIzx3dQPbvb6_qU8sW7DkMWYYGXW2uBmMn

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR-P3yQ9V4wFljLW6gIzx3dQPbvb6_qU8sW7DkMWYYGXW2uBmMn

Th setup above would cost, depending on scope choice, about €800 new or between €300 - €550 second hand. There are a fantastic gun, and if you asked i would say about 70% of rifle shooter either had one or have one. I have two and wouldn't part with them.

To find out which rifle you want or more importantly which suits your intended purpose then i would suggest visiting a few rifle ranges, and seeing what others are using, and what they have, use it for, how it works, how effective it is, cost, etc. Then start shopping around. Try to go to as many shops as possible rather than look online. Online shops/sites are not as well managed so you only see a fraction of what is available.

jonnysnapshop wrote: »

iv also gotten an offer to pay a farm for permission to use the land. is this a normal thing and what would you usually pay and is it worth it?

I personally would not and have never paid for shooting. I once lost land to a syndicate many years back when they offered the land owner money for shooting. After two years the land owner contacted me saying he eventually threw them off the land and asked if i wanted to come back shooting it. The reason was they left a mess where ever they went, shot everything that moved, did not upkeep on the land, towards the end got rather pushy about others being on the land including family members of the land owner. IOW they thought they had sporting rights to the land when in fact they did not.

Some people pay for land, but 99% of this is lads buying leases for deer hunting/stalking. I understand this has to be done as some people don't have the luxury of private permissions, but for "day to day" hunting and vermin control most people have a symbiotic relationship with the land owner. He gets someone that is on his land watching his land, and essentially being a set of eyes for them (as a lot of shooting is done at night) which gives them great piece or mind. They also have vermin controlled (rabbits, foxes, pigeons, etc) to protect crops and livestock.

In return you get permission for their land. If they want payment i'd walk away, but that is me. If you're stuck and think you should pay for it then that is up to you, but i'd set out some sort of contract in writing and be sure of your rights on the land. However for me it's a big no-no.