Dairy chit chat II

whelan2 wrote: »

Intresting discussion going on here http://j.mp/2ukN4tm

Had a look there same old arguements, you would think lads would get tired of it.

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Progeny sales under threat will turn the meekest of lads or lassies into the HULK especially when said info/criticism comes from private or state sources.
It'll never end.

Have messed around with crossbreeding here the past few years and have pulled the plug on it, theirs simply to much of a lucky dip involved with how they preform relative to their mothers simply no consistency have some great crossbreds cows but nearly 50% wouldn't hold a light to their dams, on the other hand the holstein heifers coming through are flying it and going to make brilliant cows going forward, if I was going the controlled starvation/no meal going in I'd have the place full of them but in a system where your pushing for 600kgs plus of ms they aren't a option unless your first cross holstein is a extreme 700kgs plus weight coat hanger type cow

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

Normande are supposed to have very poor feet. I had 2 half breds back when they came out first and their feet were very prone to white line disease.

They're feet are ok from what I've seen. Teagasc did a study on them a while ago and fed them completely wrong and gave them all laminitis.... I know a guy who bought a few of them and said they were the best suckler cows he had. Very docile animals.

pedigree 6 wrote: »

If you have good fertility, good solid production, good feet, good cull cow and bull calf price why change?

From what I see there is an nagging doubt over farming systems which manifests itself in the x-breed row every time it pops up.

Now I am new to this but the way I see it on one side you have an absolute minimum input, basically all grass, highest solids possible approach - the NZ approach, if you like - which favours the cross bred IF (and this is the big unspoken point) you can amass sufficient land around the parlour cheaply, or go to OAD, second unit, whatever.

And on the other side you have the B&W approach which gives you a potentially more productive cow, provided that she is fed and looked after - and that, like all things, depends on the individual cow on the day. You will maximise grass as long as it is the cheapest feed, but some day or other you will need to feed her to get the best out of her, and maybe more attention to detail will be needed which itself would limit scale.

The second approach is probably a higher risk / reward approach but on many farms is the most approachable way to maximise the return on investment once capital and labour are properly valued - it is easier to add, by and large, 20 acres of outside silage ground and a few lorries of nuts than it is to double the milking platform. And there's a big cultural and knowledge investment in the HO/FR which can't be ignored.

At the extremes of either of these systems, in my mind, you'd be throwing away money if you found yourself with the wrong cow. In the middle ground people are just worried that others are doing better than them, for everyone the challenge is to find the way to scale up to a point which maximizes the return for the biggest fixed cost of all, which is our own labour.

I reckon the debate about x-breeds is actually an expression of people's natural worry about which way to go in terms of expansion.

But as I say - I am new to this - and quite prepared to be wrong.

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

Sorry, couldn't resist

Ha I know what you mean but they are a dual purpose cow. They're is a fella down in waterford supposedly with a fantastic herd milking over 7k with 365 calving interval. I must get his name and fo down and see them.

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

I use the ICBF bull selection option to pick bulls for cows after I narrow down the EBI figures to strengthen my weakest sections, if that makes sense?

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

Some go deep into matching bulls to cows but I only rarely do that for a few specific cows. Generally, I feel the average of the figures from 6-7 bulls will equate to one high reliability, high EBI bull so that's what I use for the year. If a new bull is released late in the season and he matches the minimum figures I have set on the site, I add him to the team of bulls as well.

Does anyone ever go on tours anymore to actually see the bulls progeny or the dam like before? . I don't even think the salesmen do and they just pick on numbers. Oh and on the crossing of cows with jerseys ...I had an Australian lady here once and she visited Europe to pick out specific bulls that would fix the problems created to herds after 2/3 jersey /kiwi crosses. She would focus on bulls that would increase power, milk and rump width specifically.

Mooooo wrote: »

Very hard to see. Grandmother was staying with an aunt in bray one morning she decided she was heading home, out the door on to the road heading for the motorway, aunt had literally just gone into another room. Caught up with her in 2 minutes If she was on her own for any length of time god knows where she would have ended up

She was found a few hours ago thank God. They brought in tracker dogs. Perfect tool for the job!
Found inside an ancient disused saltpetre mine on my land. I didn't know it was there but an old school chum of hers told me they often played there as children.
All's well.

blackdog1 wrote: »

If I was going to switch to any breed it would be pure British Friesian or Normande cows. I have students who come here with Normande cows doing 7000-7500 litres of milk a year with great solids. Great calf prices and cull cow too. Wouldn't touch a jersey or kiwi cross in a fit.

Normande cows will certainly do 7-8k litres with good solids but they do suffer from most of the problems of hols. Calves are particularly fragile. Very good milk for cheese.

mahoney_j wrote: »

Can totally relate to that ,dad here has it and steadily getting worse ,horrible bastard of a thing

Absolutely awful basterd of a disease. Lost my mother to it. She was diagnosed in her early fifties.

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Can I ask another silly question? How do you Dairy guys pick ai bulls? Do you try and match the bull strengths to the cows weakness, either observed weakness or poor figures according to ICBF .....or would you just pick a few good bulls and use them willy-nilly across the breed?

Just pick a few bulls that we like and as you say willy-nilly across the herd. Only difference is we use sexed semen on heifers.

stanflt wrote: »

Seriously thinking of cross breeding next yr

All industries research shows greater profit

Pull the other one will ya !!!!!!

pedigree 6 wrote: »

You're the only one left now Mahoney!

No he's not.

stanflt wrote: »

Seriously thinking of cross breeding next yr

All industries research shows greater profit

Click bait Tell that to the crowd there the end of october :P

stanflt wrote:

Seriously thinking of cross breeding next yr

You going to let some white + black blood in with the black and whites?

Farmers weekly article

boggerman1 wrote: »

Fair play to that man for switching to the dirty holstein.at least i not alone!.sick to the back teeth of new zealand,new zealand rammed down our throats by teagasc,the comic and agriland etc.last time i checked this is ireland not new f##king zealand

Proper x breds !!!!!!!!!!