Time to have a look at how people can get Irish passports?

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 20-07-2017 12:55pm #1

First off, I would retain every Northern Irish citizen the birth right to hold an Irish passport. For historical, future and practical reasons it is the only correct way for it to be.

Having said that, there will be 1 million new Irish passports handed out this year to people who might have no real links to Ireland. 'The Granny Rule' is just about acceptable when it comes to running a soccer team, but is it really good enough when it comes to how a country should decide how citizenship works?

Our population is less than 5 million, yet 6 million British people are entitled to a passport, how many more Americans and Australians and others could bring this number up to the 10's of millions.
There's basically too many people around the world who can claim to be Irish, we are a fairly unique country in that our diaspora is multiples of our actual domestic population.

Nationalism has a strange history in Ireland, but at the very least a basic oath of allegiance to the Irish state/people I think should be brought in for anybody that wants a passport (and possibly bring in a moderate fee/payment of some kind which can help weed out people getting an Irish passport 'for the craic').

I ultimately think that having an Irish Granny and filling out a form and handing it into an embassy isn't good enough for the situation we are in currently. And that measures making it a little less open to abuse should be considered.

Thoughts?

recedite · 20-07-2017 4:14pm

This is an old link, but probably even more valid today.

The Nigerian man I was dealing with told me that the Irish passport is easy to alter and is now easy to obtain. It used to be worth more on the black market but the greater availability has resulted in the price people are prepared to pay dropping substantially.

Agent Smith · 20-07-2017 4:20pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Nationalism has a strange history in Ireland, but at the very least a basic oath of allegiance to the Irish state/people I think should be brought in for anybody that wants a passport (and possibly bring in a moderate fee/payment of some kind which can help weed out people getting an Irish passport 'for the craic').

Thoughts?

If people Feel they have a link to Ireland, and they Are entitled to Have an Irish passport due to "the Granny rule" - let them.

They aren't free, They have to be paid for.

Quin_Dub · 20-07-2017 4:44pm

recedite wrote: »

This is an old link, but probably even more valid today.

Utterly irrelevant with the new passports..

recedite · 20-07-2017 5:01pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Utterly irrelevant with the new passports..

Biometric passports introduced in 2006.
Since then, fake or modified Irish passports have been used by Israelis, and Russians, not to mention the unknown number of people traveling around Ireland and the EU on unmodified passports "lost" by their brother or cousin who has managed to obtain Irish citizenship legitimately.

Anita Blow · 20-07-2017 7:06pm

I think a rule similar to the US for transmitting citizenship would suffice- Parent had to have been a citizen prior to your birth and spent at least 5 years in Ireland (with at least 2 being after the age of 12).

killbillvol2 · 20-07-2017 7:14pm

recedite wrote: »

Biometric passports introduced in 2006.
Since then, fake or modified Irish passports have been used by Israelis, and Russians, not to mention the unknown number of people traveling around Ireland and the EU on unmodified passports "lost" by their brother or cousin who has managed to obtain Irish citizenship legitimately.

Your links are from 2010. If you'd bothered to read them the first one actually states that the passports used were pre 2005.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 21-07-2017 12:29am

Agent Smith wrote: »

If people Feel they have a link to Ireland, and they Are entitled to Have an Irish passport due to "the Granny rule" - let them.

They aren't free, They have to be paid for.

Well I was trying to communicate that in my OP. If it was people who sincerely feel they have a link to Ireland and wish to gain Irish citizenship then there is nothing stopping them, and that's obviously grand.

I'm raising a concern regarding the current situation, as it allows for a person to gain citizenship a little bit too easily. They may have never even stepped foot in Ireland, have one Irish grandparent they might never have met, and could have zero affinity to Ireland or its people.
Gaining citizenship purely for convenience or political (Brexit) reasons are not good enough in my opinion.

I think an oath of allegiance, having some basic citizenship test, and a higher financial commitment before a passport is initially granted would be a better way to approach the situation.

A Little Pony · 21-07-2017 4:39pm

I don't know why some people get into such a huff about it. My brother has one and he is a Unionist, my sister has one and she is a Unionist. It is just a passport, it doesn't mean anything.

seamus · 21-07-2017 4:49pm

I'm wondering what the problem is that's attempting to be solved here?

Irish passports being given out to people who are legally entitled to them. Why is that a problem?

All My Stars Aligned · 21-07-2017 4:51pm

Arn't the Netherlands now talking about having to give up any other citizenship in order to hold a Dutch passport.

I can't think of any real issues that people holding Irish passport along with another may cause though.

Jim2007 · 21-07-2017 4:52pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I think an oath of allegiance, having some basic citizenship test, and a higher financial commitment before a passport is initially granted would be a better way to approach the situation.

Your concern about the current situation, but you're happy to sell Irish citizenship at the same time to the exclusion on the less well off. What a model citizen you are! I've heard enough?

seamus · 21-07-2017 4:55pm

Netherlands have been doing it for a while:
https://ind.nl/en/Pages/Renouncing-your-current-nationality.aspx

Doesn't apply if you're Irish though because it's not legally possible for an individual to renounce Irish citizenship. Only the Minister for Justice can revoke it, and only then to naturalised citizens.

recedite · 21-07-2017 5:18pm

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

I can't think of any real issues that people holding Irish passport along with another may cause though.

I'd prefer to see everyone only allowed to have one passport.

Let's say somebody using an Irish passport to get somewhere which would be difficult on their "main" passport.
A jihadist leaving the UK for Syria might be stopped by British police if using a British passport. An Israeli traveling into an arab country.

Another completely different scenario is somebody committing some crime while abroad, and asked to hand in their passport to police. Mush easier to scoot off home if they have a spare passport in their suitcase.

Everyone should have one passport. Make your mind up, and nail your colours to the mast. You have a responsibility to your country, and your country has some responsibility towards you. But don't abuse it.

XVII · 21-07-2017 5:43pm

There's basically too many people around the world who can claim to be Irish

eh? so you basically don't like the current system, because it's too many people?

Capt'n Midnight · 25-07-2017 10:47pm

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

Arn't the Netherlands now talking about having to give up any other citizenship in order to hold a Dutch passport.

I can't think of any real issues that people holding Irish passport along with another may cause though.

an aside

this is a major problem for Dutch citizens who want to remain in the UK for a few years before returning home

Thomas__ · 26-07-2017 2:39pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

First off, I would retain every Northern Irish citizen the birth right to hold an Irish passport. For historical, future and practical reasons it is the only correct way for it to be.

Having said that, there will be 1 million new Irish passports handed out this year to people who might have no real links to Ireland. 'The Granny Rule' is just about acceptable when it comes to running a soccer team, but is it really good enough when it comes to how a country should decide how citizenship works?

Our population is less than 5 million, yet 6 million British people are entitled to a passport, how many more Americans and Australians and others could bring this number up to the 10's of millions.
There's basically too many people around the world who can claim to be Irish, we are a fairly unique country in that our diaspora is multiples of our actual domestic population.

Nationalism has a strange history in Ireland, but at the very least a basic oath of allegiance to the Irish state/people I think should be brought in for anybody that wants a passport (and possibly bring in a moderate fee/payment of some kind which can help weed out people getting an Irish passport 'for the craic').

I ultimately think that having an Irish Granny and filling out a form and handing it into an embassy isn't good enough for the situation we are in currently. And that measures making it a little less open to abuse should be considered.

Thoughts?

The increase of applications for and issuing of Irish Passports according to the "Granny Rule" has certainly less to do with getting it "for the craic" as much more to do with this stupid Brexit thing. The main reason is for them to get an Irish passport in order to secure their EU citizenship with it. Not too far from the driving force for other UK citizens to apply for citizenship in that EU member state they live in, becoming a naturalised citizen.

Without the BrexitRef result from last year, there hadn´t been such a rush by people to apply for an Irish passport. But it also went the other way, EU nationals applying for UK citizenship in GB in order to secure their right of residence, as the UK govt is still leaving the EU nationals in limbo regarding their future residence rights and status after Brexit.

I´m not sure whether it´s some good idea to introduce an oath of allegiance for new Irish citizens, cos in situations like described above, everyone would easily take such an oath in order to get the Irish passport and I don´t know what sort of ideas you´d have in mind to make them prove that they are taking it seriously and sincere. It´d be a bid deal of work to have that taken in person by every single applicant. So, to make it more simple and easy for both sides (applicant and passport office) oath taking might had to signed on a document by the applicant. Either way doesn´t give you any guarantee that the applicant is really that serious in taking the oath.

Elmo · 26-07-2017 2:50pm

The Grandparent rule is also a continuous rule. Your mother/father must also be Irish citizens. So if your parents are unwilling to have the craic then your stuck with passports that don't have an entertainment value. (or if they are dead and never held a passport)

Economically for a small nation it is important to keep those ties, we actually need to use our Irish Diaspora more efficiently and not just those with Grandparents (and I am not suggesting we give citizenship to people who's ancestors left during the famine), but their should be programmes for people with Irish ancestry.

Also we don't know how many applications are refused.

Fratton Fred · 26-07-2017 2:59pm

recedite wrote: »

Everyone should have one passport. Make your mind up, and nail your colours to the mast. You have a responsibility to your country, and your country has some responsibility towards you. But don't abuse it.

That just isn't realistic in today's world.

I know kids who are of Irish/ other European country parentage and who flit seamlessly between the two countries. Why should they have to "Nail their colours" to any flag?

Or more specifically, isn't this what the eu wants? ever closer union with citizens who are just european as opposed to citizens of any particular eu country?

recedite · 26-07-2017 3:59pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I know kids who are of Irish/ other European country parentage and who flit seamlessly between the two countries. Why should they have to "Nail their colours" to any flag?

Kids can't "flit seamlessly" anywhere, except during the annual summer holiday. They grow up and go to school in the country they live in, and that is what shapes them most.
I have nieces/nephews in Germany, and they are most definitely German. They can still call themselves "half Irish" and have Irish names, but there is no reason for them not to have a German passport.

We should expect the same of the kids of immigrants coming to this country. The vast majority are quite happy to integrate and "be" Irish.

View · 26-07-2017 10:19pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

recedite wrote: »

Everyone should have one passport. Make your mind up, and nail your colours to the mast. You have a responsibility to your country, and your country has some responsibility towards you. But don't abuse it.

That just isn't realistic in today's world.

I know kids who are of Irish/ other European country parentage and who flit seamlessly between the two countries. Why should they have to "Nail their colours" to any flag?

There is no reason why they shouldn't be citizens of both countries, given they are the product of both countries.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Or more specifically, isn't this what the eu wants? ever closer union with citizens who are just european as opposed to citizens of any particular eu country?

No it isn't. The EU is a union of sovereign nations and a person is a citizen of a particular member state (or particular states if applicable). Had the EU's nations any interest in replacing citizenship of the nation states with an EU citizenship, they could have put that in the treaties years ago.

Peregrinus · 27-07-2017 2:08am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Or more specifically, isn't this what the eu wants? ever closer union with citizens who are just european as opposed to citizens of any particular eu country?

Not at all; the complete opposite, in fact. The only way to be a citizen of the EU is to be a citizen of a member state. It's conceptually impossible to be just an EU citizen.

In the context of Brexit, somebody has floated the idea that, post-Brexit, UK citiziens should be allowed to, in effect, buy EU citizenship. It's not an idea that has attracted a huge amount of support on the EU side, and I predict that it will be quietly buried because (apart from the fundamentallly offensive notion of selling citizenship) it's such a radical reversal of the current concept of EU citizenship.

Fratton Fred · 27-07-2017 12:09pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

Not at all; the complete opposite, in fact. The only way to be a citizen of the EU is to be a citizen of a member state. It's conceptually impossible to be just an EU citizen.

In the context of Brexit, somebody has floated the idea that, post-Brexit, UK citiziens should be allowed to, in effect, buy EU citizenship. It's not an idea that has attracted a huge amount of support on the EU side, and I predict that it will be quietly buried because (apart from the fundamentallly offensive notion of selling citizenship) it's such a radical reversal of the current concept of EU citizenship.

so presuming federalisation happens, individual countries will still issue their own passports?

LeinsterDub · 27-07-2017 1:09pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

so presuming federalisation happens, individual countries will still issue their own passports?

That's such a big presumption that no one can comment on it

OldMrBrennan83 · 27-07-2017 1:11pm

This post has been deleted.

Fratton Fred · 27-07-2017 1:35pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That's such a big presumption that no one can comment on it

Is it? Our passports are already to a set european standard and have European Union on them, above the name of the issuing country.

Thomas__ · 27-07-2017 1:36pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

So, you´d discriminate your own fello citizens after they went abroad to take on a job and settle there, having their children born in another country and refuse their children to be Irish citizens as descendants of Irish citizens. If that´s not cruel than I don´t know what is.

Jesus wept!

OldMrBrennan83 · 27-07-2017 1:40pm

This post has been deleted.

cantwbr1 · 27-07-2017 1:47pm

Patww79 wrote: »

I'm not saying take passports off people that move and settle elsewhere. But yeah I wouldn't let their kids have one if they're born abroad because, well, they're born abroad. Or, like I said as an alternative, of possible allow the kids to have some form of passport but not at the same level as someone born in the state.

Either way, I don't see how not allowing someone's kids to have a passport can be classed as cruel to a person that's emigrated.

My son was born in Singapore when I was working there. Singapore does not give citizenship to children born in Singapore to non-citizens.
Your proposal would mean my son would be stateless.

Thomas__ · 27-07-2017 1:48pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm not saying take passports off people that move and settle elsewhere. But yeah I wouldn't let their kids have one if they're born abroad because, well, they're born abroad. Or, like I said as an alternative, of possible allow the kids to have some form of passport but not at the same level as someone born in the state.

Either way, I don't see how not allowing someone's kids to have a passport can be classed as cruel to a person that's emigrated.[/quote]

You sound like someone who thinks that once someone emigrates he or she will never return and that they´ve cut off themselves from this country. I don´t think that any of the Irish expats would agree with you to say the least, they would probably would have a go at you and I wouldn´t mind them doing so.

OldMrBrennan83 · 27-07-2017 1:51pm

This post has been deleted.

Thomas__ · 27-07-2017 1:54pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If he was born in Singapore then it sounds like something to take up with them rather than Ireland (hypothetically, as I know Ireland hands them out no problems currently). Should we really be taking up the slack to allow other countries not to though?

Thomas__ wrote: »

You sound like someone who thinks that once someone emigrates he or she will never return and that they´ve cut off themselves from this country. I don´t think that any of the Irish expats would agree with you to say the least, they would probably would have a go at you and I wouldn´t mind them doing so.

Where did I say that? They don't cut themselves off, hence they are allowed to keep their passports. Where did I say the passports should be taken from them? Thanks for the passive aggressive threats anyway.[/quote]

You imply to have their children refused to get Irish passports issued and that´s the point I was making. I´m not responsible for "passive aggressive threats", I was merely telling what the reaction of expats would be. That´s all.

OldMrBrennan83 · 27-07-2017 1:55pm

This post has been deleted.

Thomas__ · 27-07-2017 2:00pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You really sound like someone who has never left his neck of the woods by your opinion.

Thomas__ · 27-07-2017 2:00pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You really sound like someone who has never left his neck of the woods by your opinion.

recedite · 27-07-2017 2:11pm

cantwbr1 wrote: »

My son was born in Singapore when I was working there. Singapore does not give citizenship to children born in Singapore to non-citizens.
Your proposal would mean my son would be stateless.

If he is growing up in Ireland he would become a naturalised Irish citizen anyway, similar to an immigrant.
If he stays in Singapore and grows up there, then I don't see how it's Ireland's problem if they don't grant him Singapore citizenship, but I'm guessing they probably would grant it in reality.

Thomas__ · 27-07-2017 2:34pm

recedite wrote: »

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I know kids who are of Irish/ other European country parentage and who flit seamlessly between the two countries. Why should they have to "Nail their colours" to any flag?

Kids can't "flit seamlessly" anywhere, except during the annual summer holiday. They grow up and go to school in the country they live in, and that is what shapes them most.
I have nieces/nephews in Germany, and they are most definitely German. They can still call themselves "half Irish" and have Irish names, but there is no reason for them not to have a German passport.

We should expect the same of the kids of immigrants coming to this country. The vast majority are quite happy to integrate and "be" Irish.

You clearly have no idea about German citizenship and how this is to get obtained by people with no German ancestry. It really depends on many aspects such as where they are born, when they are born, the citizenship and residence status of their parents. You´re guessing very much and take things for granted which are in fact not granted the way you presume they might be. All in order to save you the issuing of Irish passports for Irish people living abroad.

Born and raised in Germany doesn´t make a person automatically German per se. It is the cultural background of the parents and their citizenship that comes into it as well. For children born from the year 1999/2000 onwards, they can have German citizenship in case their parents fulfill the conditions for that, if not at least one parent is German him- / herself. Otherwise, when both parents are of different citizenship, they have to provide the proof that the conditions required for that are fulfilled.

As you say that your relatives are "half-Irish" and assuming that the other part of their parents is German, well, then they have indeed German citizenship. If not, it depends on what is stated above if that is the case, which depends on their date of birth (the year to be precise and whether they were born in Germany).

Citizenship is a complex matter with a huge effect on every person, more so on children when they live abroad or have parents of a different nationality to the country they live in.

I really find it astonishing how some posters here are that mindless regarding their fellow countrymen and -women abroad, as if they were some "outcasts" or "traitors to their nation". I really have no understanding for such a stance. It´s a really very narrow minded angle from which some leading their argument.

View · 27-07-2017 3:00pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That's such a big presumption that no one can comment on it

Is it? Our passports are already to a set european standard and have European Union on them, above the name of the issuing country.

Sovereign nations deciding to use a common standard for particular items doesn't make a Federation.

And, it should be pointed out that in even the most decentralised Federation (e.g. Switzerland), the Federal government issues the passports (not the states/cantons/lands) and the names of the state/canton/land of the passport holder are not included on the passport cover.

Fratton Fred · 27-07-2017 3:46pm

View wrote: »

Sovereign nations deciding to use a common standard for particular items doesn't make a Federation.

Yes, I know. But the eu has an objective of ever closer union of people and states, so where does that lead to? Federalisation?

View wrote: »

And, it should be pointed out that in even the most decentralised Federation (e.g. Switzerland), the Federal government issues the passports (not the states/cantons/lands) and the names of the state/canton/land of the passport holder are not included on the passport cover.

yes I know, The US passport doesn't have Texas or California on it either.

As it stands, any passport issued in the Schengen area is practically a passport for the entire zone already, so it is only a small step to making it a schengen passport.

It all comes down to what does this "Ever Closer Union" mean and where does it lead? It's not as if federalisation is an alien concept within europe already.

Chips Lovell · 27-07-2017 4:00pm

Nothing's been agreed yet.

oscarBravo · 27-07-2017 4:32pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yes, I know. But the eu has an objective of ever closer union of people and states, so where does that lead to? Federalisation?

It leads wherever the member states want it to lead. I know it's fashionable in some Euroskeptic quarters to believe that the EU is going to somehow sneakily force its members into a federation without their knowledge or consent, but that don't make it so.

LirW · 27-07-2017 4:41pm

This actually leaves me a bit in a limbo. I'm together with an Irish man, we live in Ireland but I'm Austrian. We have a daughter, born in Ireland but at the moment she only carries an Austrian passport (simply because of the waiting times).
If I'd marry him and want to claim Irish citizenship I have to hand my Austrian passport back because as a born Austrian with Austrian parents I can only hold one citizenship. I'd do it in a heartbeat but I have another son who's Austrian too and it would be the same for him.
Since we're in the EU it doesn't matter too much and both citizenships are pretty much equal.

I just find the rule somewhat retarded, but hey. I know that the AUT government is dealing with a lot of passport fraud from Turkish Austrians.

Fratton Fred · 27-07-2017 7:31pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

It leads wherever the member states want it to lead. I know it's fashionable in some Euroskeptic quarters to believe that the EU is going to somehow sneakily force its members into a federation without their knowledge or consent, but that don't make it so.

Who said anything about knowledge or consent?

We hear about the eu proposing two speeds, but speeds to where?

oscarBravo · 27-07-2017 7:43pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Who said anything about knowledge or consent?

If the member states enter into a federation with knowledge and consent, what's the problem?

We hear about the eu proposing two speeds, but speeds to where?

To wherever the member states decide to go.

Fratton Fred · 27-07-2017 7:47pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

If the member states enter into a federation with knowledge and consent, what's the problem?

I didn't say it was a problem, but it seems to be a logical step if the eu is to go down the federalist route.

oscarBravo · 27-07-2017 7:53pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I didn't say it was a problem, but it seems to be a logical step if the eu is to go down the federalist route.

I'm frankly at a loss as to what your point is.

Fratton Fred · 27-07-2017 9:50pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm frankly at a loss as to what your point is.

it was this, pretty simple.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That just isn't realistic in today's world.

I know kids who are of Irish/ other European country parentage and who flit seamlessly between the two countries. Why should they have to "Nail their colours" to any flag?

Or more specifically, isn't this what the eu wants? ever closer union with citizens who are just european as opposed to citizens of any particular eu country?

Making eu citizens "Nail their colours" to any country or flag is pretty much the opposite of what the european union is striving to achieve, is it not?

I would have thought that a country telling someone that if they become a citizen of another eu country then they must relinquish citizenship of their own, goes against the principles of ever closer union.

With so many children being born these days to parents of different countries, making them chose just one country seems very unrealistic and small minded.

oscarBravo · 27-07-2017 9:59pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Making eu citizens "Nail their colours" to any country or flag is pretty much the opposite of what the european union is striving to achieve, is it not?

I would have thought that a country telling someone that if they become a citizen of another eu country then they must relinquish citizenship of their own, goes against the principles of ever closer union.

With so many children being born these days to parents of different countries, making them chose just one country seems very unrealistic and small minded.

It's not an EU competence. Citizenship of member states is a matter for those states.

Will that change in the future? Who knows - but if it changes, it will be because the member states want it to.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 28-07-2017 1:06am

LirW wrote: »

This actually leaves me a bit in a limbo. I'm together with an Irish man, we live in Ireland but I'm Austrian. We have a daughter, born in Ireland but at the moment she only carries an Austrian passport (simply because of the waiting times).
If I'd marry him and want to claim Irish citizenship I have to hand my Austrian passport back because as a born Austrian with Austrian parents I can only hold one citizenship. I'd do it in a heartbeat but I have another son who's Austrian too and it would be the same for him.
Since we're in the EU it doesn't matter too much and both citizenships are pretty much equal.

I just find the rule somewhat retarded, but hey. I know that the AUT government is dealing with a lot of passport fraud from Turkish Austrians.

Austria must be one of the hardest countries to deal with regarding citizenship anywhere in the world. Having to live in Austria for 30 continuous years before being allowed citizenship is surely a bit extreme. Not being allowed to hold dual citizenship in cases like yours is where it becomes even more unfair in how citizenship is treated there, it's basically splitting one family in two unnecessarily.
Really stands in stark contrast to Ireland where you can apply and become a citizen and may never have even stepped foot in the country.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 28-07-2017 1:13am

Thomas__ wrote: »

The increase of applications for and issuing of Irish Passports according to the "Granny Rule" has certainly less to do with getting it "for the craic" as much more to do with this stupid Brexit thing. The main reason is for them to get an Irish passport in order to secure their EU citizenship with it. Not too far from the driving force for other UK citizens to apply for citizenship in that EU member state they live in, becoming a naturalised citizen.

Without the BrexitRef result from last year, there hadn´t been such a rush by people to apply for an Irish passport. But it also went the other way, EU nationals applying for UK citizenship in GB in order to secure their right of residence, as the UK govt is still leaving the EU nationals in limbo regarding their future residence rights and status after Brexit.

I´m not sure whether it´s some good idea to introduce an oath of allegiance for new Irish citizens, cos in situations like described above, everyone would easily take such an oath in order to get the Irish passport and I don´t know what sort of ideas you´d have in mind to make them prove that they are taking it seriously and sincere. It´d be a bid deal of work to have that taken in person by every single applicant. So, to make it more simple and easy for both sides (applicant and passport office) oath taking might had to signed on a document by the applicant. Either way doesn´t give you any guarantee that the applicant is really that serious in taking the oath.

That's more or less why I started the thread. It is not Ireland's fault that Brexit is happening, nor should it be our responsibility to facilitate British people with zero affinity to Ireland in obtaining a 'handy' EU passport.
The 'Granny Rule' was put in place as a show of solidarity with Ireland's long and storied tradition of emigration. Now that it seems to have come back full circle, the rule should not be in place for people to use as a loophole to keep hold of EU citizenship. That reeks of abuse of the system to me.

Thomas__ · 28-07-2017 6:48am

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Thomas__ wrote: »

The increase of applications for and issuing of Irish Passports according to the "Granny Rule" has certainly less to do with getting it "for the craic" as much more to do with this stupid Brexit thing. The main reason is for them to get an Irish passport in order to secure their EU citizenship with it. Not too far from the driving force for other UK citizens to apply for citizenship in that EU member state they live in, becoming a naturalised citizen.

Without the BrexitRef result from last year, there hadn´t been such a rush by people to apply for an Irish passport. But it also went the other way, EU nationals applying for UK citizenship in GB in order to secure their right of residence, as the UK govt is still leaving the EU nationals in limbo regarding their future residence rights and status after Brexit.

I´m not sure whether it´s some good idea to introduce an oath of allegiance for new Irish citizens, cos in situations like described above, everyone would easily take such an oath in order to get the Irish passport and I don´t know what sort of ideas you´d have in mind to make them prove that they are taking it seriously and sincere. It´d be a bid deal of work to have that taken in person by every single applicant. So, to make it more simple and easy for both sides (applicant and passport office) oath taking might had to signed on a document by the applicant. Either way doesn´t give you any guarantee that the applicant is really that serious in taking the oath.

That's more or less why I started the thread. It is not Ireland's fault that Brexit is happening, nor should it be our responsibility to facilitate British people with zero affinity to Ireland in obtaining a 'handy' EU passport.
The 'Granny Rule' was put in place as a show of solidarity with Ireland's long and storied tradition of emigration. Now that it seems to have come back full circle, the rule should not be in place for people to use as a loophole to keep hold of EU citizenship. That reeks of abuse of the system to me.

In some cases it might look like that way. In other cases it is not.

Time to have a look at how people can get Irish passports?

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