Would you be ok with white Irish becoming a minority?

RandomName2 · 19-07-2017 2:26pm

dav3 wrote: »

The whole imaginary mass immigration into Europe has been done to death.

Ah well, nuff said. Erdogan's threats would be totally wasted on you.

Raycyst · 19-07-2017 2:37pm

dav3 wrote: »

This is a thread about white Irish and our ever increasing population, even with mass emigration over the past 5 years, somehow being wiped out.

The whole imaginary mass immigration into Europe has been done to death.

Have people really run out of hysterical, over the top, fearmongering stories of white genocide in Ireland already?

This post contains dangerous errors and overall it displays a serious lack of comprehension.

The thread is about the Irish becoming a minority, not about the Irish being wiped out. That error is called 'moving the goalposts' or 'reductio ad absurdism'.

Mass immigration into Europe is not imaginary and to say it is indicates that you're delusional.
Calling someone delusional is only an insult if it's not true. If someone is actually delusional then it is ok during a debate to refer to that fact.
Mass immigration into europe is real. To say otherwise is not true.

The last line quoted above demonstrates a serious lack of self awareness. It is you, Dav, who is hysterical and over the top.

Being concerned that 20% of your population has been replaced in 20 years is not hysterical fear mongering. The Roman Empire fell for much less.

sbsquarepants · 19-07-2017 2:39pm

Sven Hassel wrote: »

But there not rejecting Europeans on race, they welcome Europeans who emigrate legally and can contribute.

I see. So you welcome all foreigners who come here legally and can contribute?

RandomName2 · 19-07-2017 2:45pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I see. So you welcome all foreigners who come here legally and can contribute?

I don't know about Sven, but I welcome everyone here who's on a work visa.

dav3 · 19-07-2017 3:01pm

Raycyst wrote: »

The thread is about the Irish becoming a minority...

"White Irish", let's not forget what thread we're in.

This thread wouldn't get very far if it was just about Irish people. 'What about Ballyhaunis, and, eh, the Irish being the majority in the town?' doesn't have quite the gripping, click-bait, hysterical ring to it as 'OMG the white Irish are being wiped out in Ballyhaunis, what are we going to do?'

Although if you'd like to discuss the lie of the Irish becoming a minority in Ireland we could do that also.

topper75 · 19-07-2017 3:07pm

Academic wrote: »

Well, not by the then-contemporary interpretation. Remember the "divine right of kings": rulers derived their authority to govern from god or the gods, not from the consent of the governed. Constantine, Caesar, etc., etc., etc.

But this chap was an orphan and not a king. He was spouting madness.

The correct answer both then and now is "I think you need to lie down for a while mate, you need rest." I don't think context changes that!

ScumLord · 19-07-2017 3:19pm

Raycyst wrote: »

Can you name some of the restrictions please?

There's a website with all the information you're looking for. http://www.inis.gov.ie/

They even publish a list of the outcome of applications and why people were refused.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/visa-archive-15052017-10072017.pdf/Files/visa-archive-15052017-10072017.pdf
Reasons include not enough paperwork, not having enough money, cost to the state, inconsistencies in the documentation.

Raycyst wrote: »

Mass immigration into Europe is not imaginary and to say it is indicates that you're delusional.

What constitutes mass immigration over normal immigration to you? What's a normal amount of immigration?

Being concerned that 20% of your population has been replaced in 20 years is not hysterical fear mongering. The Roman Empire fell for much less.

No it didn't. The vast majority of people living in the Roman empire were not romans, I've never once heard that immigration was a problem in the roman empire.

I don't think your stat of 20% of the population being replaced makes much sense. Ireland only really attracted large immigration during the boom, the vast majority of those people left once the economy tanked. What percentage of our own population is immigrating? We have a consistent flow of Irish people leaving this country and if we didn't have people coming into the country we'd end up a genetic mud pool with a failing population. I also don't think that fixing the economy will stop people immigrating either, it's part of our culture to leave and see the world now.

sbsquarepants · 19-07-2017 3:34pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

I don't know about Sven, but I welcome everyone here who's on a work visa.

Well at least that's something. I'm not a big fan of free loaders myself.

But...

What about Irish people who don't / won't work?
What about the foreigners we don't allow to work?
What about kids?
What about students?
What happens when they get old / sick / injured?
What if an irish person marries abroad and then wants to bring their husband / wife / kids home?

Raycyst · 19-07-2017 4:25pm

ScumLord wrote: »

There's a website with all the information you're looking for. http://www.inis.gov.ie/

They even publish a list of the outcome of applications and why people were refused.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/visa-archive-15052017-10072017.pdf/Files/visa-archive-15052017-10072017.pdf
Reasons include not enough paperwork, not having enough money, cost to the state, inconsistencies in the documentation.

Yes, but you're not answering the question I asked.

Therefore, you're being deliberately intellectually dishonest. I expected more from a scumlord.

I said that the bodies listed had no restrictions. I'm aware that Ireland as a state has restrictions. We're both aware that only 20% of deportees are actually deported. We're both aware that the Gardai are distracted at the moment and aren't much help.
Who's responsible for deportations? Civil servants? No wonder they're not happening.
Will charities have to step in here?

ScumLord wrote: »

What constitutes mass immigration over normal immigration to you? What's a normal amount of immigration?

More intellectual dishonesty.
A poster said mass immigration into europe was imaginary. I said it wasn't. There are large amounts of people immigrating into Europe. Therefore, what I said is accurate and what you have said is not strictly relevant.
I haven't spoken about what is normal or not normal, I just disputed the clear mistake that immigration into europe is not happening.

I had said something about Rome falling due to immigration.

ScumLord wrote: »

No it didn't. The vast majority of people living in the Roman empire were not romans, I've never once heard that immigration was a problem in the roman empire.

I don't think your stat of 20% of the population being replaced makes much sense. Ireland only really attracted large immigration during the boom, the vast majority of those people left once the economy tanked. What percentage of our own population is immigrating? We have a consistent flow of Irish people leaving this country and if we didn't have people coming into the country we'd end up a genetic mud pool with a failing population. I also don't think that fixing the economy will stop people immigrating either, it's part of our culture to leave and see the world now.

Approx 20% or irish citizens have emigrated and they've been replaced by immigrants. That is population replacement, or at least the beginnings of it.

It is considered that immigration into Rome was a factor in its downfall.

Roman senators used to walk among their public. I don't imagine Trump could do that, or even Leo.

Sven Hassel · 19-07-2017 4:35pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I see. So you welcome all foreigners who come here legally and can contribute?

I think it's best if they have a skill we need in our economy an aren't too keen on the whole radical Islam.

You're being very evasive on my questions. Hmm, could it be that you think white nations should shut up and and put up when it comes to immigration but don't expect the same from non white nations?

sbsquarepants · 19-07-2017 4:40pm

Raycyst wrote: »

More intellectual dishonesty.
A poster said mass immigration into europe was imaginary. I said it wasn't. There are large amounts of people immigrating into Europe. Therefore, what I said is accurate and what you have said is not strictly relevant.
I haven't spoken about what is normal or not normal, I just disputed the clear mistake that immigration into europe is not happening.

.

Just had a quick look at the figures for asylum seekers to the EU there. Numbers grew steadily from 2008 on peaking in 2015 and have been falling slightly since.

For the years 2008 - 2016 (the years Wikipedia cared to give me) total applications for asylum to the EU stand at just under 4.5m (over 50% of those are in the past 3 years).

So in 8 years of unprecedented demand for asylum - even if every single case was granted, the population of the EU would have increased by less than 1%.

This is what you're getting all worked up over.

end of the road · 19-07-2017 4:43pm

Raycyst wrote: »

Yes, but you're not answering the question I asked.

he did answer it.

Raycyst wrote: »

We're both aware that only 20% of deportees are actually deported.

we are also aware that others may have left of their own accord, or that new evidence has come to light meaning the deportation is no longer valid.

ScumLord · 19-07-2017 4:50pm

Raycyst wrote: »

Therefore, you're being deliberately intellectually dishonest.

Enough of this, you're not using it correctly.

I said that the bodies listed had no restrictions.

the post you replied to didn't mention any bodies, all they said was that no one is advocating mass immigration.

Who's responsible for deportations?

I'd imagine it ultimately comes down to the guards.

A poster said mass immigration into europe was imaginary.

Not the poster you quoted. I can't find anyone saying it to be honest. Your claiming there is mass immigration so please state what constitutes mass immigration, at least in your mind.

I just disputed the clear mistake that immigration into europe is not happening.

Again, nobody said immigration into Europe isn't happening. It obviously is happening and always has happened.

Roman senators used to walk among their public. I don't imagine Trump could do that, or even Leo.

And they'd often get killed or beaten to within an inch of their lives for doing so. The roman senate was a pantomime where political groups would go on rampages kicking the living snot out of their opposition. To say a slave economy like Rome had immigration problems is laughable, they fell because all the money went to the top leaving nothing for the vast majority of the population, why would you hire a local when you can just buy a barbarian from the market?

Oranage2 · 19-07-2017 4:54pm

I'm Irish , I speak Irish , but I'm not white.

I find white Irish people as a whole a little ignorant, also I read some studies that found white Irish people not as intelligent as their European counterparts, either way it doesn't bother me but I feel it couldn't do any harm either.

sbsquarepants · 19-07-2017 4:56pm

Sven Hassel wrote: »

I think it's best if they have a skill we need in our economy an aren't too keen on the whole radical Islam.

You're being very evasive on my questions. Hmm, could it be that you think white nations should shut up and and put up when it comes to immigration but don't expect the same from non white nations?

I'm not being in any way evasive - I've answered your question - I said yes, I'd consider it racist to behave that way.

I also don't think it contributes much to think of a nation as being white or non white. Sounds a little bit KKKy to me.

Do you group people you know into your white and non white friends / colleagues / neighbours whatever.

Out of interest would you date or marry a non white man or woman?
Would you be happy or upset if your kids did?

feargale · 19-07-2017 5:01pm

Wibbs wrote: »

You can see a nun's face for a start. Nuns don't wear the full get up so much these days. I'd prefer to see neither outfit in the modern world. Though I suspect you're confused with the terminology. You're likely thinking of a hijab as a comparison. To illustrate;

Hijab

Burka

Nun's habit

I'd prefer an evening out with Number One than with Number Three.

dav3 · 19-07-2017 5:01pm

Raycyst wrote: »

Approx 20% or irish citizens have emigrated and they've been replaced by immigrants.

Where did you pull that figure from? Are we still talking about white Irish here?

Raycyst · 19-07-2017 5:04pm

edit to add quote.

scumlord wrote:

To say a slave economy like Rome had immigration problems is laughable, they fell because all the money went to the top leaving nothing for the vast majority of the population, why would you hire a local when you can just buy a barbarian from the market?

Same problem as today then.

Why hire an Irish person when you can hire a black person and treat them like ****?

edit.
I accept that very few people agree with me. That doesn't mean I'm wrong.

end of the road · 19-07-2017 8:55pm

Raycyst wrote: »

I accept that very few people agree with me. That doesn't mean I'm wrong.

the fact that you are wrong means you are wrong

Sven Hassel · 19-07-2017 9:07pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'm not being in any way evasive - I've answered your question - I said yes, I'd consider it racist to behave that way.

I also don't think it contributes much to think of a nation as being white or non white. Sounds a little bit KKKy to me.

Do you group people you know into your white and non white friends / colleagues / neighbours whatever.

Out of interest would you date or marry a non white man or woman?
Would you be happy or upset if your kids did?

I had to drag the answer out of you which pretty much confirms my suspicions of your hypocrisy.

I'll try again, hundreds of thousand of young European men move to, lets say Tunisia and start committing taharush attacks, groping girls in swimming pools, at music festivals etc Some start blowing up pop concerts and running over kids in trucks because they hate muslims. The native Tunisians start saying, 'hang on a second, we've never had this before, maybe we shouldn't have let in a million men from a very different culture to us. It's not because thy're white it's because mass migration has a large social cost' You think they're KKK or Nazi? I don't, seems a perfectly reasonable reaction. What's your opinion?

No

I've only dated white women as I don't find most non white women to be attractive, except for them east Asians hotties. I would prefer my children and grandchildren to be white rather than mixed. Bet you love hearing that!

sondagefaux · 19-07-2017 9:13pm

ScumLord wrote: »

There's a website with all the information you're looking for. http://www.inis.gov.ie/

They even publish a list of the outcome of applications and why people were refused.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/visa-archive-15052017-10072017.pdf/Files/visa-archive-15052017-10072017.pdf
Reasons include not enough paperwork, not having enough money, cost to the state, inconsistencies in the documentation.

What constitutes mass immigration over normal immigration to you? What's a normal amount of immigration?

No it didn't. The vast majority of people living in the Roman empire were not romans, I've never once heard that immigration was a problem in the roman empire.

I don't think your stat of 20% of the population being replaced makes much sense. Ireland only really attracted large immigration during the boom, the vast majority of those people left once the economy tanked. What percentage of our own population is immigrating? We have a consistent flow of Irish people leaving this country and if we didn't have people coming into the country we'd end up a genetic mud pool with a failing population. I also don't think that fixing the economy will stop people immigrating either, it's part of our culture to leave and see the world now.

Overall since 1991, Ireland has had net inward migration, even taking into account the period between 2009 and 2015 when there was net outward migration.

However, the total net outward migration from 2009 to 2015 wasn't enough to counteract the net inward migration from 1991 to 2008 and since 2015.

Basically Ireland has been a net recipient of people, most of them non-Irish, since 1991.

It proves that Ireland is a successful country, which is attractive enough to people of other nationalities to convince them to upend their lives and move to Ireland.

Moving from your home country to another country is still a very big deal and still comparatively rare - only about 3.5% of the world's population lives in countries other than the countries of their birth.

The fact that Ireland has about four times this percentage simply proves how much more attractive it is as a destination for other people than most countries in the world - a sure sign of successful country.

This is something to celebrate, not something to be upset about.

sbsquarepants · 20-07-2017 10:41am

Sven Hassel wrote: »

I had to drag the answer out of you which pretty much confirms my suspicions of your hypocrisy.

You didn't have to drag anything out of me - I answered you straight away.

Sven Hassel wrote: »

I'll try again, hundreds of thousand of young European men move to, lets say Tunisia and start committing taharush attacks, groping girls in swimming pools, at music festivals etc Some start blowing up pop concerts and running over kids in trucks because they hate muslims. The native Tunisians start saying, 'hang on a second, we've never had this before, maybe we shouldn't have let in a million men from a very different culture to us. It's not because thy're white it's because mass migration has a large social cost' You think they're KKK or Nazi? I don't, seems a perfectly reasonable reaction. What's your opinion?!

It doesn't matter what your "culture" is. Whatever country you move to you need to more or less follow theirs. You can't move to Tunisia and sit along the canal swamping cans with your mates just because that's what you do back home.
There are laws in both Germany and Sweden I'm sure that say you can't just go grabbing women no matter what your culture or your prophet says. Maybe enforce those already existing laws? Anyone caught breaking them - absolutely deport them.
The vast, vast majority of people won't do anything like that - because they realise themselves it's a scummy thing to do.

Sven Hassel wrote: »

I've only dated white women as I don't find most non white women to be attractive, except for them east Asians hotties. I would prefer my children and grandchildren to be white rather than mixed. Bet you love hearing that!

That says it all to be honest, I think it's quite sad that you, or any person, would allow themselves to think that way. Hardly surprising, but sad nonetheless.

conorhal · 20-07-2017 11:55am

sondagefaux wrote: »

Overall since 1991, Ireland has had net inward migration, even taking into account the period between 2009 and 2015 when there was net outward migration.

However, the total net outward migration from 2009 to 2015 wasn't enough to counteract the net inward migration from 1991 to 2008 and since 2015.

Basically Ireland has been a net recipient of people, most of them non-Irish, since 1991.

It proves that Ireland is a successful country, which is attractive enough to people of other nationalities to convince them to upend their lives and move to Ireland.

Moving from your home country to another country is still a very big deal and still comparatively rare - only about 3.5% of the world's population lives in countries other than the countries of their birth.

The fact that Ireland has about four times this percentage simply proves how much more attractive it is as a destination for other people than most countries in the world - a sure sign of successful country.

This is something to celebrate, not something to be upset about.

Dear God that is a prime example of how Paddy is such a sycophantic nation desperate for a pat on the head and a bit of praise.

This kind if pathetic blather reminds of of all those articles about Michael Hasenstab, the trader who bought 10 per cent of the Irish bond market after the country was bailed out and everbody fawned over his 'brave faith in this county'! He praised our economy and we lapped it up.
Of course his faith was based on the fact we'd pay out on unsecured debt and nothing more, which we did and he made a killing.

Your post suggests that mass immigration is a good thing because 'likes'. That's pretty pathetic.

Muckie · 20-07-2017 11:58am

I come from a town in Kildare, bit of an employment blackspot.

Had to get out of it, thing is over the last 10-15 years there has been a large influx of Africans(mostly Nigerians).

Thing is how is this accomplished.

Is there a Housing Officer(s) or a system of helpers that can transplant families (they are mostly large 5 plus) into the locality.

I would have guessed traveling thousands of miles from Africa to Ireland, you'd be broke.

But they seems fine. Its a strange turn of events.

Would it be a case of smart working the system, (system scared to be called racist) gaining benefits form the welfare state.

Raycyst · 20-07-2017 12:02pm

Of course Ireland will be like France or Sweden in the end.
I'll give a proof below.

Not all Irish people are racists, xenophobes or hate filled. But a proportion of them are. Perhaps I'm one of them.

Not all immigrants are terrorists, not even all Muslim immigrants are terrorists. But some of them are.

The reason why second generation immigrants reject their host society is because of the existence of racists and xenophobes within the host society.

A small proportion of racists can sucessfully alienate an entire population of immigrants. Therefore, the second generation immigrants conclude that they are not wanted in the host society, and that they are hated.

They aren't entirely correct in their conclusion but nor are they entirely wrong. A proportion of the host society does indeed hate them or at least dislike them and perhaps resent them. But it's only a proportion, in the same way that a proportion of immigrants dislike and reject the host society.

There is no way to avoid that. Political correctness requires that you refuse to discuss these issues. That's derelict and reckless for a politican to act in that way.

Political correctness is a major problem in the west. It prevents politics from working as the biggest problems facing us are off limits and have been made taboo.

Politicans need to accept that a proportion of Irish people are racist. Immigration should be curtailed because of that. Not to satisfy the racists but because we cannot offer the immigrants a safe home where they are wanted and valued by everyone.
And of course for the selfish reason that the second generation immigrants will recognise that they are not wanted and valued and they will likely reject and perhaps even attack the host society as a result.

That there above is akin to a mathematical proof that immigration does not work.

Can it be refuted?
without resorting to feelings?

Multiculturalism is a failed concept and it is destroying the west. It doesn't exist outside the west.

end of the road · 20-07-2017 12:27pm

Raycyst wrote: »

Of course Ireland will be like France or Sweden in the end.
I'll give a proof below.

Not all Irish people are racists, xenophobes or hate filled. But a proportion of them are. Perhaps I'm one of them.

Not all immigrants are terrorists, not even all Muslim immigrants are terrorists. But some of them are.

The reason why second generation immigrants reject their host society is because of the existence of racists and xenophobes within the host society.

A small proportion of racists can sucessfully alienate an entire population of immigrants. Therefore, the second generation immigrants conclude that they are not wanted in the host society, and that they are hated.

They aren't entirely correct in their conclusion but nor are they entirely wrong. A proportion of the host society does indeed hate them or at least dislike them and perhaps resent them. But it's only a proportion, in the same way that a proportion of immigrants dislike and reject the host society.

There is no way to avoid that. Political correctness requires that you refuse to discuss these issues. That's derelict and reckless for a politican to act in that way.

Political correctness is a major problem in the west. It prevents politics from working as the biggest problems facing us are off limits and have been made taboo.

Politicans need to accept that a proportion of Irish people are racist. Immigration should be curtailed because of that. Not to satisfy the racists but because we cannot offer the immigrants a safe home where they are wanted and valued by everyone.
And of course for the selfish reason that the second generation immigrants will recognise that they are not wanted and valued and they will likely reject and perhaps even attack the host society as a result.

That there above is akin to a mathematical proof that immigration does not work.

Can it be refuted?
without resorting to feelings?

Multiculturalism is a failed concept and it is destroying the west. It doesn't exist outside the west.

immigration will continue to happen. the racists are failing in their aim to turn immigrants against the host nation. society as a whole will never accept racists or racism. you are losing and you will lose thankfully.

The_Kew_Tour · 20-07-2017 12:35pm

end of the road wrote: »

immigration will continue to happen. the racists are failing in their aim to turn immigrants against the host nation. society as a whole will never accept racists or racism. you are losing and you will lose thankfully.

Tell that to Gays and immigrants in places like Russia, Poland and Ukraine

end of the road · 20-07-2017 12:42pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Tell that to Gays and immigrants in places like Russia, Poland and Ukraine

people who you and others only care about when it suits your agenda.

sbsquarepants · 20-07-2017 12:52pm

Raycyst wrote: »

Politicans need to accept that a proportion of Irish people are racist. Immigration should be curtailed because of that. Not to satisfy the racists but because we cannot offer the immigrants a safe home where they are wanted and valued by everyone.
And of course for the selfish reason that the second generation immigrants will recognise that they are not wanted and valued and they will likely reject and perhaps even attack the host society as a result.

A proportion of the Irish people are rapists.

Should Irish politicians tell women not to come here because we can't keep them safe?

Your "mathematical proof" is nothing more than a steaming pile of shíte!

The_Kew_Tour · 20-07-2017 12:53pm

end of the road wrote: »

people who you and others only care about when it suits your agenda.

Thats your assumption. You know nothing about me. You also have your own agenda, the fact you keep moving goalposts proves you are wrong.

If you want get back in topic and prove me wrong you could least try.

Would you be ok with white Irish becoming a minority?

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